成人论坛

A public enquiry should be held in the full light and very close scrutiny of the media, otherwise there will be another cover up.
This war should never have been entered into, lets find out exactly why Blair backed Bush, including the extent of the lying that was done.
WMD's we know did not exist, both of them knew this as their own intelligence services told them the real facts. We were like the proverbial mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed on s**t.
Blair claimed the other week that we are there because the democratically elected government asked us to be.
How can he reconcile this outright outrageous lie when everyone knows that we supposedly invaded to remove a tyrant, whom we had helped to put in place. Of course it was nothing to do with oil, or the threat to Americas friend Israel.
Politicians make used car salesmen look totally honest and upright.

Tony Blair is refusing a full inquiry into the Iraq war... is he really so concerned that a parliamentary inquiry may open a can of worms which may throw -up credible evidence supporting those who vociferously said the Iraq war et al ,was illegal!!....are proven!

The Motion was defeated .....Tony Blair can breath again...for the present!!
The Cabinet defended their corner in the normal way together with their usual sycophantic back benchers. Those speakers debating for the motion made intelligent statements and a very good fist on their reasons for a full Inquiry. Ergo allowing the public to take part as viewers, something the government apparently overlooks or is mentally unaware of & thus we the Electorate can draw its own conclusions in this matter & mark their ballot paper accordingly.

I think comes at a time when it is very important for all the leaders around the world to realize that the world is not their private playground to do with as they please and destroy the world in the the process of their thrists for dominance and power, there are millions of innocent lives being sacrificed for the selfish motives of the ones at helm of affairs in Iraq, Lebanon Afghanistan etc., the world cannot simply accept this.

United States has reached crisis point in North Korea, Iraq, and Iran, These "Axis of Evil" comes back to haunt United States.

No one is America's, Israeli's, or British enemy, we are creating enemies by ourselves by not treating
these countries what is morally right. I don't think we should have invaded Iraq in the first place without any good reasons, until after United Natins inspections were over, until we had secured Afghanistan, and er had a consensus in the world community. I think Saddam Hussein, absolutely not presented any kind of a terrorist threat. Nothing positive that come from our cimmitted involvement Iraq nor Afganistan.

I also think that Iran is a peaceful Nation, that merely wanted to be left alone and stand on it's own feet.

Tehran's uranium enrichment is intended to support a peaceful nuclear power program. I think it will be very wrong to push for s santions resolution against Iran.

The world has now changed, all the Nations are awakened now. They want their rights-equal rights, and fair ones. The time for world empires has ended

If you had received the intelligence from the JIC that the Prime Minister was given, would you not have been irresponsible NOT to go to war? Just imagine: if no one had acted to stop Sadaam's pernicious behaviour what would the state of the Middle East be like now?

I would love to comment on tonight's programme but it now being 22:45 and the Watch Live option has not yet appeared it seems that I will not be seeing tonight's edition.

If it is not possible to make the programme available why can't the fact be put on the website?

Where was the report on Burma? When will it be shown?

Here the 成人论坛 go again, talking about DeBothas death squads in South Africa, but ignoring contemparanious British death squads in NI, and not commenting on the scandaleous blocking of the Stephens enquiry to expose how far and how high knowledge of the death squards went withing the British Government.

Ditto complaints about the Sudanese governments training and organising of militias against black people, but ignoring the scandal of MI5 and Army Intelligence (?!) or FRU doing the same thing to Irish people.

There is no doubt that MPs acted in their own interest, not in the interests of their constituents. Faced with a government defeat and a loss of their seats and, perhaps, years in the political wildnerness, they did the unprincipled thing and voted for the government, against the wishes of the majority of the electorate. More shame on this New Labour government.

It would appear that the government's new energy certificates are little more than a sales scheme designed to provide false jobs for workers to parasite using the environmental faithful. To suggest that people should take out an extra mortgage is financially criminal, given that you never get your money back. The same is probably true of the carbon trading market its not that long since that they were squealing like stuck pigs because no sensible people were using them. An economy based on borrowed money is doomed to eventual failure, especially when the ratio of parasites on the economy is rising compared to real jobs which create benefit to society.

Ref:Iraq WMD and Jan Pronk Sudan
Despite all the media and the government wriggling let us remember Sadam and his officials themselves said they have WMD and threaten to use it. Was it wise to go in? That another thing. I will say no. But we are now in Baghdad so let us support the men on the ground there no matter how long that will be.
Ref: Sudan Jan Pronk what he said on his Blogspot is what was on the local papers in Sudan and the news then. But the Sudanese government in the middle of its war propaganda anticipating an international intervention wanted to show some sort of authority

Yes, there definitely should be a full independent Public Inquiry into the War in Iraq which should have far reaching powers to investigate every nook and cranny in the 'Corridors of Power'.

I fail to see how having such an Inquiry would damage the morale of the troops in Iraq? Surely it would be far better to own up to the mistakes, errors of judgement and deliberate mis-information on either the part of the PM Dear Tony (Blair) or indeed if he was mis-fed flawed intelligence by his ministers or the likes of MI5 or MI6 which was plainly wrong as in the case of the so-called WMDs.

I am no expert but correct me if I'm wrong was it not stated by Blair that these WMDs could have been launched within 45 minutes? Was it not the case that to have maximum impact that these WMDs would had to have been ICBMs (Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles) to strike UK bases such as in Cyprus and other sites throughout the Med and in the Middle East? But then we discover he was not referring to ICBMs within 45 minutes launch time, oh no, it was 'Battlefield Weapons' he was alluding to. A totally different scenario as battlefield weaponry would have limited range of fire and could not possibly reach the range ICBMs can reach.

Then there is the initial claim by the 'Deadly Duo' Bush and Blair on why Iraq was going to be invaded for the sole purpose of finding and removing the WMDs and thereby removing the threat to the stability of the Middle East and the 'Free World'. We now know and it was always going to be just that that the WMDs did not exist
Surprise!, Surprise!. Because this claim had been rumbled and the Duo had to then claim they were going to have
some 'Regime Change'.

Think about this for a minute now:
Would good ol' George W. and Dear Tony
have invaded Iraq if the country did not have vast reserves of oil but had instead vast plantation fields of bananas!? I'll leave you make up your own minds on that!

I find it hilarious and very sad that Labour MPs such as Don Touhig (Islwyn)
have to resort to "gutter politics" but he and his ilk do like "having a
go" at bashing the Plaid Cymru. He is truly one of the last British Dinosaurs!

Finally, I'd like to suggest to all you guys and gals out there to read the following book (unless you've already read it):-

"House of Bush, House of Saud" by Craig Unger.
ISBN: H/B 0-7432-5337-X
P/B 0-7432-5339-6

Have a good read and Good Night.

What a ridiculous report & debate. No Lib Dem. How on earth can you ignore the Lib Dems on Iraq? The only major party to oppose the war. Then to have a debate afterwards between two parties who supported the war!!! I trust you will address this and include the Lib Dems in Wednesday's programme!!!!!!

ETHICAL MAN
How right Ethical Man was not to change his radiator valves out for thermostatically controlled ones. How could this make sense both in terms of economics and CO2 emissions? Surely prior to making a recommendation to fit new valves or any other energy efficient device, the specialist carrying out the study should take into account for example: the energy and CO2 emission cost for mining the materials, manufacture, transport for materials and tradesman fitting the necessary upgrade? Not to do so is nonsensical in terms of saving energy or CO2 emissions on property already built? Its called mass balance I believe!
The housing minister Yvette Cooper dropped in to tell Ethical Man why we now need the energy efficiency certificates. She failed! The Government have over many years carried out media campaigns on loft insulation, double glassing, Solar energy and alike and even offered incentives by way of grants for home improvements. The best way to promote these issues is as News night [Ethical Man] and the Government have done in the passed, by media exposure to the facts and assistance by way of improvement grants for older property. Furthermore changing the planning rules for energy efficient homes for the future will be essential. Spending a few hundred quid on a certificate will do nothing for the climate but will, I suspect, increase tax revenue for Gordon Brown. Is this stealth tax I ask myself?

So like we all know the war was legal well according to Blair, I doubt it, so we have a hearing now while our troops are fighting which states the war was illegal imagine the troops who will still die, yes have a hearing and discuss the war remove the right for the leader to go to war without the agreement of the MP's, but not now do it when our troops are home. not while they are fighting.

As a Brit in Miami I see similar questions over here. I believe the consensus is that; yes we need to investigate what happened but that the time is not now as we are at War with troops in harms way and people on both sides dying.

What we should be doing now is demanding that our leaders get serious about winning it. The concensus opinion from the media now is that it is not going well. We need some new ideas & changes to our tactics. Force them to explain to us (the good old public) a few basic details such as:- defining exactly what winning in Iraq is, explaining to us how they intend to reach that goal and be realistic about the time it will take.

Unfortunately I don't think it is that simple as we are realy talking about an entire region that is in danger of exploding within a rapidly growing, changing, interconnecting and interdepending World.

As we sit sometime in the future with our history book in the safety of hindsight we may well see that items and issues were indeed greatly exaggerated to get us into Iraq at that time. In addition I hope we see that any deception was for a higher and very urgent longer term purpose and that it was all worth it. I sure as hell hope so for if not they are all a bunch of idiots which of course they are not.

We should be telling our leaders to cut the rubbish out of the middle and get themselves and the people on the same page. We can handle it!

As a Brit in Miami I see similar questions over here. I believe the consensus is that; yes we need to investigate what happened but that the time is not now as we are at War with troops in harms way and people on both sides dying.

What we should be doing now is demanding that our leaders get serious about winning it. The concensus opinion from the media now is that it is not going well. We need some new ideas & changes to our tactics. Force them to explain to us (the good old public) a few basic details such as:- defining exactly what winning in Iraq is, explaining to us how they intend to reach that goal and be realistic about the time it will take.

Unfortunately I don't think it is that simple as we are realy talking about an entire region that is in danger of exploding within a rapidly growing, changing, interconnecting and interdepending World.

As we sit sometime in the future with our history book in the safety of hindsight we may well see that items and issues were indeed greatly exaggerated to get us into Iraq at that time. In addition I hope we see that any deception was for a higher and very urgent longer term purpose and that it was all worth it. I sure as hell hope so for if not they are all a bunch of idiots which of course they are not.

We should be telling our leaders to cut the rubbish out of the middle and get themselves and the people on the same page. We can handle it!