³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

Dear Newsnight

As leaders on all sides repeat the actions of their predecessors perhaps Newsnight Review could look at whether "All quiet on the Western front; has something to say to us today

Please leaders on al sides stop this
Bob

From All Quiet on the Western front-

German soldier Tjaden asks: "Well, how do they start a war?" Another answers: "Well, one country offends another." Tjaden asks: "How could one country offend another? You mean there's a mountain over in Germany gets mad at a field over in France?" The soldier qualifies his answer: "Well, stupid. One people offends another." Tjaden doesn't know any Frenchmen or Englishmen personally - nobody has offended him:

Tjaden: Oh, that's it. I shouldn't be here at all. I don't feel offended.
Katczinsky (joking): It don't apply to tramps like you.
Tjaden: Good. Then I can be going home right away...The Kaiser and me...Me and the Kaiser felt just alike about this war. We didn't neither of us want any war, so I'm going home. He's there already.
Soldier: Somebody must have wanted it. Maybe it was the English. No, I don't want to shoot any Englishman. I never saw one 'til I came up here. And I suppose most of them never saw a German 'til they came up here. No, I'm sure they weren't asked about it.
Another Soldier: Well, it must be doing somebody some good.
Tjaden: Not me and the Kaiser.
Soldier: I think maybe the Kaiser wanted a war.
Tjaden: You leave us out of this.
Katczinsky: I don't see that. The Kaiser's got everything he needs.
Soldier: Well, he never had a war before. Every full-grown Emperor needs one war to make him famous. Why, that's history.
Paul: Yeah, Generals too. They need war.
A Third Soldier: And manufacturers. They get rich.
One of the soldiers compares war to a "fever": "Nobody wants it in particular. And then all at once, here it is. We didn't want it. The English didn't want it. And here we are fighting." Katczinsky explains how wars should really be fought:

I'll tell ya how it should all be done. Whenever there's a big war comin' on, you should rope off a big field (and sell tickets). Yeah, and, and, on the big day, you should take all the kings and their cabinets and their generals, put them in the center dressed in their underpants and let 'em fight it out with clubs. The best country wins.

Having seen another one of the hostages illegally held by Iran paraded in front of Iranian TV this morning, I wonder how much longer we are going to put up with this as a nation? I do not want to see any military action taken, because of the threat of the loss of life to the hostages. I would however like to see strong firm diplomatic protests being made publicly by the Government. Tough words are not good enough. The so called confessions being made by the three hostages have been made under great stress and pressure which is obvious to the whole world. I hope that we are going to soon see a peaceful end to this situation as soon as possible with the safe return home of all involved to their families.

The terrible situation that we see in Zimbabwe today has been created solely by President Robert Mugabe who clearly does not care about his country or his people by allowing this to happen. A great opportunity has been missed in my view by his party allowing him to stand again for President in 2008. I hope that we see another candidate emerge brave enough and be allowed to challenge Mr Mugabe fairly as leader. If the party win the next election I would hope for the sake of Zimbabwe and her people that help from the outside world would be offered and accepted by any new regime. We have seen great unnecessary suffering in my view for far too long by ordinary people who only want a good standard of living. This was once a great country and could be again if opportunities given in future are taken by those in power. The people of this country have suffered enough.

Some people talk of the zimbabwification of our society..

That happened before mugabe's ...

Maybe he followed some British lead in getting rid of the wrong people...

But would we have followed his men to get rid of an extremely ethical establishment...determined to be privileged into ignorance of the worlds and knowledge of others..and stuck in ways that deliberately degrade surrounders to hide their ignorances...

We often seem to live in a CULTIMUNITARIAN WORLD...phases of it overtake us or empower us .. due to lack of cohabitability, or time for understanding without authorities open life masteries or consideration and language leadership to represent our cares...

Whilst we thank the media for the exciting life leadership of TV papers mags and books! Some people still seem economically shy like the fears have won and ennui governs their brains!!

Revolutions seem inspired by involuntary rule... most of us just over compete or out compete instead...and this blog opportunity in particular has been a great channel for preparative exercise to do that!

I am not sure if President Ahmadi Nezhad's background is in anyway relevant to the current situation. As Churchill once said, ‘Out of intense complexities intense simplicities emerge.’ I’d like to see the British government gives his word (or something like that) that incidents like that will not happen again, and thus let both sides out of the crisis without either losing face. Whether or not the sailors were captured in Iranian waters remains a matter of dispute, but incidents like that have never happened with Americans (Why do you think that is?).

The last but not the least, I was very much disappointed with the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ 1 (News at 10 in particular) over the last few nights. I find it ‘completely unacceptable’ that the reporter kept changing a historically established name (Persian Gulf) and calling it anything 'but' Persian Gulf. ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ must realize how upsetting this might be to most Iranians and how much in damages ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳’s reputation and its claims on impartially in this respect. If some Arab nations would like to by names by the Arab Money that’s fine, but we’d like to see ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ out of this please. That body of water has been called Persian Gulf for thousands of years in numerous maps of diverse languages. Please understand that this deeply offends Iranians whether or not they agree with their government’s policies.

To R Khosravi (Message 7):

What is there about the British action in this which Britain should guarantee will not happen again?

The "intense simplicity" which emerges from this is, rather, for the Iranian government to give "his word (or something like that) that incidents like that will not happen again".

By illegally seizing these people and then imposing conditions for their release, Iran has dug itself into a hole. Despite Iran's claims that it's not involved in Iraq, the inept "letters", with their political references to Iraq, only serve to confirm British and American claims that it is. Iran has blown its cover on that one. Over and above issues of this sort, the whole incident goes to show Iran cannot be trusted: if there was any doubt before, the world can now see the Iranian regime for what it is.

Britain *could* give Iran an easy way out: accede to Iran's demands and take the blame itself. But why should it? That would be the victim taking the blame instead of the aggressor.

Iran's best option now of coming out with some credit, it seems to me, is to use the "legal phase" it's been talking about. Admit there's no evidence on which to base a trial (for the Indian-registered merchant ship verifies both the geographical location and the activities of the British — ie *not* spying) and to release the people and their equipment. At least by this means, Iran will have shown itself to be subject to the rule of law, which would go some way to offsetting the damage it's already inflicted on itself. That would be the best option for it internationally, but whether the population would accept such an outcome remains to be seen.

As a matter of interest why do you think incidents of this type don't happen with the US Navy? Is it just a fluke (in any case, the 2004 incident was in an area of Iraq where the US isn't operating), or is there some other reason? Does the USN undertake these ship inspections in the same way as the RN? (I think I saw a news report a few years ago which indicated it doesn't.)

To: Stranded in Babylon

Yes, Iran cannot be trusted, but neither can Bush or Blair. And their ‘cover’ in Iraq was blown a long time ago.

If Iran is 'involved' in Iraq, so are some other unlikely countries (I wonder why they are not interested in Zimbabwe) - and why Iran should not be, it shares with Iraq a long border. The two neighbours are now involved in numerous financial investments, etc. but for some reason facts like this are often neglected. Let’s remember that it was not Iran that went to a war with Iraq in the first place.

And I am not sure if Iran has ‘dug’ itself a hole in this matter as you say. What Iran tried to gain out of this was to appeal to its people’s nationalism by saying that Iran can capture those who ‘transgress’ its borders and refuse to be bullied or intimidated by the ‘West’. That’s enough of a gain - to unite people against American (daily) threat.

As for the 'letters', well, that's getting arrested ‘Revolutionary Guard’ style! If you get crossed with them writing ‘letters’ is part of the process. It is not pleasant, I know, but then that’s their style! (This is not about who you are or what you have done. The best thing is not getting arrested in the first place!)

I think you have replied to yourself: ‘Britain *could* give Iran an easy way out: [and] accede to Iran's demands’even if that’s done behind closed doors, because the point here is not how evil who is, but that the Navy personnel are home as soon as possible.

looks like they were under our noses (or in our ears?) all along..

I do wonder what the truth really is regarding the captured troops. Were they in Iraqi waters or were they in Iranian. Our government states categorically that they were in Iraqi waters. We are of course supposed to believe Blair and co, after all they did tell the truth about the WMD's that started all this.
There is little doubt that Bush would love the excuse to bring 'democracy' to Iran, just as he has to Iraq.
The sailors are no more than pawns in the Bush/Blair game.

To Brian J Dickenson (Message 12):

As I understand it, the master of the Indian-registered vessel (ie the one inspected by the RN crew) has confirmed the position of his ship as being in Iraqi waters. The RN people were picked up as they departed from the Indian vessel. His positioin corroborates the RN account.

Obviously, if the crew was engaged in inspection duties, it wasn't engaged in spying. (In any case, if you were intent on spying, would you dress in British military uniform, sail in British military boats, and fly the British white ensign?)

How come Kathy Sierra's interview was cancelled?

Very bad for the RN to abandon sailors to iran like that. Must make a lot of sailors feel like there just 2nd class! Where was the Captian? What school did he go to? Why would he turn his back on them? What an example!!