成人论坛

First off - why does Newsnight invite us to comment when they fail to give clear link on their website to the piece they are refferring to. This has happened three times to me - the latest incidence is credit carc fraud.

Now to credit card fraud. Why are you having a go at the banks. It is a disgrace that the govt have abandoned the investigation into fraudsters. We have lost 100's of thousands of pound of christmas 2006 through credit card fraud. The police do NOTHING. It is easy and deterent free to steal in Britain today. Just steal card details and buy online. then sell on ebay to get the funds. NO-ONE investivates the theft purchase or the fencing sale. It is a scandal. And the reason they can get away with it? Because it is not the end card holder who pays - they get a chargeback - it is the small-business who has to pay the cardholder back but has had to forego the loss of stock. What really bugs me is the banks now charge a 0.5% surchage on every transaction to cover potential loses on their part so small businesses pay 3 ways running. It is a disgrace.

Re: Credit Card Fraud.

In the case of Credit Card fraud specifically, card issuers make 'chargebacks' to (i.e. take money from) the merchants in the case of 'suspect' transactions. So it's not the card issuers, the banks or even the customer that immediately suffers, it's the retailer. It would have been nice to see a retailer's angle on this new approach to crime reduction, and to hear whether they are still allowed to report fraud - though I imagine they rarely want to admit they've been victims, it would perhaps have given a more complete picture of the matter.

I listened with interest to your item on Debit and Credit card fraud I have recently been the victim of compromised card fraud to the tune of 拢1300. My debit card is still in my wallet and my pin number in my head. I do not know how the fraud happened. When ringing Lloyds Tsb to report numerous fraudulent items I waas advised it was a waste of time advising the police, they would not be interested. Yet oen of the items was for a Tv Licence, well how easy would that be to trace, and numerous debits to a we clothing company, they have to have some address for delivery

Fraud BY Banks

I'm not surprised that Credit Card fraud is not being investigated because the banks do a charge back, so the seller of the goods is out of pocket not the banks, this whole scheme is designed to move the loss from the banks, who have the responsibility of ensuring the security of their financial services like for example "Chip and PIN", this is a fraud on the sellers of goods by the banks and the government as neither intend to honour their obligations in helping stop credit card fraud, I know of numerous businesses that have stopped taking credit cards as the risk to them is far to high, perhaps in the years to come with the decline of credit cards and new charges by banks for current accounts that we might end up finding the best place for our money is once again under the mattress.

I watched your report on card fraud with interest.

I run an internet mail order business and have had direct experience of attempted card fraud against my business.

1. We have identified fraud before delivery and contacted the local police in the expectation that they would a) investigate it and b) take the opportunity to to catch a criminal, red handed. As per your report, the police declined to take action.
2. The APACS representative said that banks have a vested interest in preventing this crime. I believe that the opposite is true, that banks do not want distrust associated with their products and that it is in their interest to keep card fraud out of the news and crime statistics.
3. Fraudulent transactions are charged back to the retailer so it is the retailer, not the bank, who suffers the big loss.

As a shop owner over 5 years ago when we reported to the police that stolen credit cards were trying to be used on goods value around 拢500 and that we could arrange a sting. They said that they were far to busy to bother and that their minimum fraud that they would react to was 拢50,000.
The credit card processing company HSBC were also not interested and said that as long as we had followed procedures then we would be not be liable if we supplied goods to users of stolen credit card.
Is it a wonder that credit card fraud is rampant?

I opened an account with NatWest in January 2007, in Ammanford, South Wales. I prefer over-the-counter for conducting business, and therefore ignored activating the on-line banking facility. A few weeks later I received an email threatening access to my account unless I did activate the code. I began keying in details, but fortunately it was late at night and I was too lazy to fetch further information to include, and decided to leave it until the next day. By then I was not able to obtain access into that site, and the email was not from NatWest as I discovered after calling into my branch, but who outside of their staff would know I had joined them and not activated my code? I had not even disclosed the opening of the account with anyone, as it was a spur of the moment action when I was in town. An inside job most evident here. Hence, even more reason not to trust business on-line.

Someone used or cloned the debit card from my aunt's room in a nursing home during the last month of her life when she was bedridden. She had never used a cash machine before but 6 withdrawals of the maximum of 拢300 were made. The bank refunded the money and the police said that because the bank were now the victim,since April, they could do nothing unless the bank complained. The bank declined to do so saying it would be too difficult to prosecute. So somewhere in the Midlands a care worker is probably continuing to defraud vunerable old ladies because the system is not interested in trying catching them.
Crime pays.

The Butterscotch movement??!! Brown Liberals...treats people like cr#p until they become happy on it...

"BouRP..Bournemouth Renegade Pigs... Aggravated redistribution of spare credit argument...!!!"

"if they knew him enough to have his card number..."

"then probably they didn't like him cos of what he was like..."

"so he was a bad person who didn't deserve it..."

"and they deserve better than he did...."

"he obviously had too much money..."

"he shouldn't have got it they should"

"he was nicking his job off their people"

"what their people wanted to buy was therefore designed for them and they are supposed to have it and be able to afford it..."

"therefore his people have stopped them getting the money they deserve..so they are redistributing the wealth back to people who should have got it...them..."

"from the bank's point of view it is only money who cares where it comes from it is economically trivial..."

"and bad people deserve bad things..and good people deserve good things..."

"so the money went to the people who needed it and deserved it...using the credit he didn't need...so therefore it doesn't matter he deserved it...and it is a good thing.."

"if he complains like he knows our job better then we should fit him up for something and nick him for aggravating us!!...we know how they feel...his people don't deserve it...they should be taken back down to the bottom of society where they belong...all you need to do is get him in a struggle deteriorate the situation until he exaggerates his importance...they are well behaved and he isn't so he doesn't deserve it like they should have got it... then he should be made to learn who is in charge...and if it is a lucky day we can get him to throw his life away thinking he can tell us what to do and all!!"

BouRP..Bournemouth Renegade Pigs

i've also this month be a victum of card fraud i'am at lloyds tsb bank and got a call from the bank fraud department about the transaction's 8 from usa stores and 1 from uk. about 拢780.00, in total when i asked where there were being delivered too the said that's date proction act and can not tell me? it my card they are using where is my data protection and should the address be sent to the card holders address only. i'am still wainting to get my money refund to my account. and also my card was in my wallet and pin in my head but they did not use the pin just the 3 diget code on the back of the card...

jeffhall at 2 ended his post with:

"In one case we actually detained a known card-fraudster but we had to let him go because the police never turned up !!!"

I am surprised the dibble(police) did not arrest you later for unlawful detention, if the card fraudster had complained to the police that you manhandled him, they would have soon turned up at your premises, to arrest you.

Sorry to hear the newsnight researcher was a victim of credit card fraud, its not as bad as having your wallet taken by a gun weilding wild eyed mugger, but credit card fraud still feels like a personal attack when it happens to you and leaves you angry, and you feel even more angry when you experience the indifference of the police when you try to report this crime; the police are so 'bombed out' with diversity courses and hunting terrorist they have no time for this kind of crime anymore

I learnt sometime ago, not to bother our busy police with crimes like this, or a house breakin ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, as they are just too stretched. Could not help but laugh when the phone that was brought fraudently, had a delivery address in Liverpool, that would be
about right. Criminality is a normal every day activity for many people these days thanks to the lack of real punishment.

hypothetically speaking here, having the "delivery address" would be my next port of call, and certainly not the police if this was my problem. have car will travel, bring some mates, turn it into a day out, did i mention hypothetically speaking.... i think i did.

Sadly the media is again colluding in hiding the biggest lost of democracy to the English people, namely the fact we are being given a Scottish MP to legislate over our affairs. I say this because everyone is reporting Gordon's speech as being about 'British' education. Sorry but he cannot decide about education in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, this falls within their Assemblies and Parliament.
Whatever further mess he makes in English schools his constituents will not be concerned or bothered by and so will continue to vote for him. Brilliant, every African president has been looking for a voting coup like that!

I didn't see newsnight, but picked this up on Breakfast this morning. Instead of shouting at the TV as is my normal reaction, I had to post a comment. Why does no one suspect, like I do, that this is a really convenient way to manipulate the crime figures? If they can't be reported, they're not on the statistics.

Will the 成人论坛 be reporting that credit card fraud has fallen significantly when the next crime figures are published? Or will 2 and 2 be finally added together and more pressing questions asked by journalists?

I could not believe that the APACS rep sat there and said that it was pointless reporting all of the crimes as the police were unable to do anything. They can, they can record the fact that it happened!

My Barclaycard (no security breach at my end) was used for a number of fraudulent transactions totalling around 拢700 last January, including one for delivery of foreign currency to an third-party address in Kent which triggered a security check by the forex company who alerted me to the potential fraud (well done them!).

This 'crime' was reported to the police, who were extremely reluctant to register it as a crime at all, and then took no immediate follow-up action despite having delivery details and other transactions for domestic bills that also should have been traceable.

I therefore suspect that the reported change of policy that was exposed on Newsnight last evening will have little real effect when the 'system' it replaces already seems to have been condoning such thefts.

How the miscreant obtained my card details, address etc was never explained.

Thanks for making my day, no matter what else happens today nothing can get to me. Barry Singleton, what a gem he is. I nearly got thrown out of the gym computer room for laughing so much, he is hilarious. What a nation we have become, credit card fraud not even worth reporting, my own city of Liverpool lambasted by one of your corespondents for much of it...totally unfair. I have lived here forever and have never been offered anything 'sus' in all that time. I must get out more. So Gordon wore a lounge suit...does that mean we are bringing the guys back from Iraq next week when the infidel hangs up his gun...dream on. Gordon signed the cheques (a terribly tired cliche but he did) maybe he will move on those office cleaners who pay more tax than the guilty six who keep going on about 'not rocking the boat' they mean their boat. When he puts on his demins I will take notice. Steve Calrow

CREDIT CARD FRAUD

Last nights report (20/06) regarding credit card fraud made my blood boil.

As I am sure every retailer will tell you the banks don't care about credit card fraud because it is not their money that is been stolen it is the retailers. As a retailer myself, my company makes every security check possible to try to ensure the transactions are legitimate but fraudulent transactions still slip through and once they do the bank makes a charge backs against the retailer. In effect they take all the money directly back from your bank account and also CHARGE YOU 拢15 for the privilege, so they are probably actually making a profit from this crime, IS THAT ILLEGAL?

I am sure that if it was the banks having this money stolen from them they would very quickly put measures in place to stop it.

Once this crime has been committed, whom do we report it to as the police have washed their hands of it? We have the name, delivery address, IPS address of the criminal so you would think that the police would be grateful for the opportunity to make an arrest for this crime!

Maybe the police/government think this is a crime with out a victim so they turn a blind eye. This crime is not victimless, we have had thousands of pounds stolen from us over the years and I am sure that this crime is the tip of the iceberg for the criminals. I am sure that they use this crime to fund other criminal activity and may well be been carried out by organised crime, but who cares right?

I have recently been the victim of internet fraud, the bank actually found it before I did but told me they were waiting for me to report it just in case. The reason it came to light at the bank was because the fraudster could not supply the correct passwords. When I telephoned the bank at 11.00pm on 15th May I was dealt with in a courteous manner but as the weeks progressed I was made to feel like a criminal and not the victim. It took 8 phone calls, 3 letters and a complaint to the ombudsman before I received a replacement card and pin. As of today's date I am still awaiting the return of the money to my account as the bank have decided it was fraud. During one of the phone calls I was told the bank have a 12 day backlog of claims - scarey! The letter received from the ombudsman on Monday 18th June states "we are currently receiving very high volumes of enquiries and we will provide you with a response as soon as we can" this is frightening. Have I been offered compensation, don't be ridiculous and to add insult to injury they charged me for going overdrawn and haven't refunded the charges, now that's what I call hard nosed!!

I hope now that Peter was victim of card fraud, he would follow-up the contact about this epidemic of debits/credits cards frauds.
I have hope that something would be done not only with the law, but also with the financial ombudsman which is set to settle disputes between victims and banks but end-up siding with the laters.
I was a victim since last february of a fraudulent transaction through ATMs withdrawals which my bank attributed to me. Since then i ve been fighting against the mighty bank to recover my hard earned money (拢2100)and still the bank is tormenting me. I wonder what the bank would do if anything was to happen to someone in my family because i could not afford to solve the problem while the bank still resist paying me back and the 8% interest that a victim can claim within the county court claim procedure seems to be a joke as i can not see any bank charging any one owing them such a rate at any time.
I urge every victim to fight back till they get their money as i hope i would.

Credit Card Fraud 鈥� No Longer a Crime

Just wanted to commend the Newsnight team for this excellent piece of investigative journalism last night. I can鈥檛 believe the naivety of Government when it comes to anything to do with IT 鈥� 鈥渙ooo cwedit cards wequire us to understand compooters! -we鈥檒l let the banks deal with this on their systems鈥�. Have they not seen 鈥渃omputer says no鈥� character on Little Britain? Banks haven鈥檛 got a clue either; I worked at major bank in Canary Wharf in 2004 and they were still using Excel 鈥�97! And that was apparently 鈥渦p to date鈥� technology for them! I was a victim of fraud recently (clone of Debit Card used in Pakistan) and I echo the comments made above about how decriminalizing this sort of activity is actually a gift to terrorists and other criminals. The amount taken was only 拢300 odd, but in Pakistan this amount of money could go a long way to feeding, training and clothing a potential suicide bomber.

Trouble is, once the cc crime statistics escalate due to this issue, the govt will use it as another excuse to force ID cards on all law abiding people. Thanks to govt ineptitude, we are all less safe, while the real criminals escape (or are let out early 鈥� but that鈥檚 another story!).

Tony is a good doer who loves headlines and so one could play games with him with questions that have the sense of good doing in them.e.g.

does the PM want everybody in the uk to do only good all the time?

is shouting at someone good?

are wars doing good?

is filling prisons to overcrowding doing good?

....then you can bring in the concept of evil

is dog fouling the pavement evil?

can evil be used in doing good? or should evil never be used for good?

can doing good be evil?

how much evil is there in the uk?

how much evil is there in the world?

is there an end to evil?

etc.

So the only headlines he could make are those that are related to the words good and evil ['PM says Dog Fouling is Evil', PM wants Everyone to be a Good Doer' etc] which exposes that mindset as ludicrous.

On the 26th May I cancelled a Abbey National card because i discovered that someone had purchased 拢267 of goods over the internet from my account (even donating 拢2 of my money to christian aid!)my card never having left my possession. On the 15th June I went in to the Royal Avenue Branch of Abbey in Belfast to complain that I had never received a new pin number for my new card and was absolutely astounded to be informed by the bank teller that yes my card was stopped alright on the 26th May as stated but somehow someone was still able to access my account and spend 拢1137 on virgin railway train tickets over the internet! The staff in the branch werent interested "oh just ring visa disputes" engaged 3 days solid, the police weren't interested. 26 days later I still haven't got my pin number
dont know what state my account is in
Its back to under the mattress Ps don't tell the burglars!

Credit Card Fraud
Having been recently a victim of credit card fraud I was not suprised by the attitude of the banks and police. The police are gradually moving away from investigating "minor" crime and gradually only investigating crimes where serious violence is involved. More than ten years ago, after having been burgled, the police took the burglar's fingerprints and a blood sample, a witness saw the burglar climbing over my fence, with my video recorder under his arm, and noted his car registration number. I was told by the officer attending that he recognised the number plate, but nothing would be done as there was not enough evidence to obtain a conviction. Had he parked his car on a yellow line the burglar would of course be hounded to the ends of the earth.

On May 4th during a visit to Sri Lanka I purchased a gift for a friend from an outlet at the International aAirport Katunaiyake.I used my credit card for the purchase.When I checked my account a few days later I found that five amounts amounting to over one thousand pounds had been taken from my bank account using my card details on the same day as my purchase at the airport.The amounts had been used to make payments to T-Mobile UK.I got my credit card immediately stopped and when I returned to the U.K. I contacted my bank as well as T-Mobile.T-Mobile informed me that the amounts had been taken from my account by two persons in London living on the same street within a short distance from each other, that the two persons had made calls to each other and many long distance calls to various places around the Indian Ocean.Knowing the situation in Sri Lanka and the ongoing terror campaign there I suspected a terrorist link and contacted the police who came to visit me a couple of days later to take a statementin which I expressed all my concerns and the ease with which T-Mobile had been able to track the perpetrators of the fraud.I was told that I would be contacted by the police.I heard nothing. After a week I telephoned the police and was told that the case was now in the hands of the Bank and unless the Bank made a charge the police could not take the case further.The Bank has repayed the money to me but I believe that the Sri Lankan connection needed immediate investigation because of possible links to terrorism.

Given that there can be links between credit card fraud and terrorist funding then banks may well hold back significant intelligence information without knowing it.

Even if a legal conviction cannot be brought against the perpetrators due to insufficient information in any single occurence of fraud, the collection and collation of information is important in order to identify perpetrators and their contacts; and I would argue that such collation and identification is the remit of the police and the security services, not the banks.

Politicians, of course, may be able to justify their decision to effectively let the banks withold what may be critical information, though I doubt that; the most likely explanation appears to be the manipulation of crime statistics, which will not be an acceptable justification to most outside Westminster.

Quote and source:
"One of the London bombers, Mohammad Sadique Khan, is believed to have been involved in low-level credit card fraud."