Tuesday, 4th September, 2007
- 4 Sep 07, 05:51 PM
BROWN NOT-SO-NEW POLITICS?
Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he wants to encourage greater engagement in a new style of politics. Yet today he brushed off calls to go up against Conservative leader, David Cameron in a TV debate insisting there were "plenty of opportunities" for him to be questioned already. Questioned by our Poliitcal Correspondent David Grossman at the monthly press conference Mr Brown stressed he appeared weekly in the House of Commons at Prime Minister's Question Time and that he made regular statements to MPs. The Tories have accused Gordon Brown of "running away" from the debate.
We hope to be asking a senior member of the Cabinet why as a believer in a new style of politics Gordon Brown won't have a TV leaders debate.
TERROR
He describes himself as a Muslim fundamentalist. And yet he agreed to spy on a group of young radical muslims accused of planning terrorist attacks. Eighteen young men were arrested in Canada last year and are due to stand trial in what will be the country's most high profile terrorist case. But it's the role of the informer which has caused most controversy - not least within the Muslim community with some accusing him of being a rat. That informer - Mubin Shaikh - has spoken to the 成人论坛's Security Correspondent Gordon Corera about why he became an informer.
IRAQ
Leaders of Iraq's Sunni and Shia factions are to consider a series of principles on non-violence after talks involving Northern Ireland and South African politicians. The discussion were held at a secret location in Finland over the weekend. We will be bringing together a Sunni and Shia with Northern Ireland politician Jeffrey Donaldson who's been at the talks. We'll discuss whether Iraqis can learn from the lessons of previous conflicts.
JANE TOMLINSON
The terminally-ill fundraiser Jane Tomlinson has died. The mum of three from Leeds lost her seven year battle with cancer. She'd raised one-and-three-quarter million pounds by completing marathons and other endurance events after being diagnosed with the disease. We'll be discussing what led her to great acts of altruism while she was so ill.
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BROWN: THE FOURTH WAY
There is no value to the thinking voter in a Brown-Cameron joust. It is like putting Dep鈥檛y Dawg up against Betty Boop; they are both two-dimensional cartoon characters - more funny than functional. Rather, put Brown in front of your best economics guy to spotlight the dark corners in ten years of stealth; record the whole encounter, then analyse it later.
Incidentally, could you not monitor heart rate - and perhaps sweating - of political interviewees, and display them like the PMQ-response displays, so telling on 鈥淒aily Politics鈥? Brown, of course, obligingly stutters more as the pressure builds, but some style guru will shortly ease him out of that as they almost did with his jaw-tick.
The suggested monitor should show up the charlatans. Poor, terrified Jacqui Smith would probably self-combust.
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It may have escaped News Night that we are the UK, not America.
Americans like these head to heads on television, of course they also tend to choose the leader with the best TV presentation and we can see where that leads, good-old boy Bush.
Let us keep the British way, it's called Parliament. There are plenty of sharp minds to ask those searching questions, so leave them to do what we elected them to do.
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TALKING MAN TO MANSE
There is an interesting parallel between the 鈥渇louncing queen鈥 report and the (pre Iraq War) 鈥45 minutes鈥 furore; but a crucial difference. In both cases the media went wild with a false story, but only in the the latter event was a correction issued. The 45 minute 鈥渕isconception鈥 was allowed to lie (I use the word advisedly) buffering from criticism Parliament鈥檚 decision for Britain to go to war with that dense shrub 鈥 Bush.
Brown should be asked where were his Presbyterian scruples when the 45 minute "misconception" needed denial? With his backgound, he could not fail to spot that the story was pure "RO-MANSE" After all, he has proved himself an expert in MANSE-MATICS (dodgy sums) SE-MANSE-TRICKS (crafty speech) and even negative E-MANSE-IPATION (disempowering of voters). So where was McCavity?
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never mind Brown's not so new politics, when did Newsnight turn into a playground?
In tonight's show (Sept 4), we had some 20 year old Paxman footage ("whatever became of him?" ho ho), then a comment on Thatcher's refusal to take part in a "Mass Debate". Oh please, my aching sides. Really 成人论坛; grow up.
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Can I ask what such an arrogant, self-opinionated, multi-millionaire's views have on a woman he clearly doesn't know from Adam. Why is he on the programme at all if it's not just jobs for the boys and slip him a few bob for expenses. Why didn't we speak to fellow athletes who had raised similar amounts of money for charity instead of these ' z ' status so called celebrities. If I had a couple of mill in the bank my best friend would be my personal trainer.
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Surely Jane Tomlinson deserves better than to have Alistair Campbell to analyse her motivation and achievements. Not a fitting way to pay tribute.
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The problem with televised debates is that they can turn into a contest of who performs the best and who is the better actor, rather than who has the best policy.
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JANE TOMLINSON
There is something very strange about calling in Alastair Campbell to discuss altruism. Was he really the only "usual suspect" you could find?
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I watch Newsnight to get a flavour of the day's events and affairs, and I've always regarded it as a 'grown up' programme for adults. Why then did David Grossman feel the need to make such an off-colour, schoolboy joke of the words 'mass debate'? The speaker in the clip carefully separated the two words to avoid any immature sniggering, but it seems the overgrown children at Newsnight simply had to shoe-horn it in somehow. Come on Newsnight, grow up and stop pandering to your 'yoof' audience.
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Not one but two uplifting items! Seeing Geoffrey Donaldson advising on peace talks and A. Campbell and Aric Sigman talking about the benefits of good works and co-operation was heady stuff indeed. We humans need less hubris and impatience and a bit of consideration of our common humanity and shared existence with other species. If it adds health and longer life it may explain why individualism is such hard work and why families that work are based on respect of members for each other. Not just pious sentiment but of practical benefit. Fancy feeling bloody cheerful after Newsnight. Super!
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Dear Newsnight
I think you left the most meaningful feature to last tonight but thank you for covering the story about Jane Tomlinson in the way you did, there is a lot for all of us to learn from her inspiring courage in the way we lead our lives, I hesitate to say any more but perhaps as you discussed it is sometimes possible to find peace and freedom, maybe some relief from pain perhaps by looking out for others, even in the bleakest and most frightening of situations
best wishes
Bob
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surely jane tomlinson deserve all the positive glory for the years she fought to raise funds for her charity, even when she was so ill, and really wanted to stay in bed, my prayers and praise for her fight, are for her husbnd and children, c.l.k
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Gordon Brown's NEW approach to politics doesn't include television debates twixt PM & leaders of the opposition as he(GB) was promoting in the eighties... doesn't want to risk a plunge in the polls & maybe...just maybe ,if he opts for an Autumn/ Spring Election being the shortest serving PM on record...
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Sir, Why do we elect (or in Brown's case not elect) people who seem to admire Margaret Thatcher? What is it about this woman that attracts people like Blair and Brown who then describe her as a 'conviction politician' What does that mean? Does it mean they are strong? Well, I suppose you could decribe Hitler and Stalin in the strength catagory, but would you want them as PM? Deep down Brown wishes he had complete control over the back-benchers within his ranks, the one's that nitpick over the EU constitution, militant public sector workers, and their suspicion over PFI deals. I mean, why won't these people behave? Afew weeks in Siberia might change a few minds not a party conference with a few militant party policy resolutions waiting in the wings. Sincerely, Steve (L'pool)
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So Brian J Dickenson believes there are "plenty of sharp minds" to ask questions of our would-be leaders. Well perhaps we, the voting public, would like the opportunity to pose some of those 'sharp questions' ourselves. And perhaps we would like to judge the abilities of those would-be leaders based on their performance in a live, public debate rather than leave everything to the usual suspects of the political cronies croud.
Bring on the mass debate says I!
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Now I'm no fan of Alastair Campbell but some of the very negative comments posted above seem way out of line. The fact is the man has done a lot of work in raising large amounts of money for cancer charities himself - just like Jane Tomlinson. The fact that he doesn't happen to have terminal cancer himself should not preclude him from doing good deeds are being acknowledged for such.
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TV head to head debates are old style politics, aren't they? Doesn't mean that they don't still have a place though. I suspect that the Tories would like one because they think Cameron is a better performer - he has the flair of Blair, in that department, along with the shallow intellectual grasp. Brown could shine if he managed to highlight the latter without looking too cruel!
As for the new style politics, I have noticed, however, that things are happening locally where I live, and there have been more public meetings with our Labour MP, more follow-up, more being kept informed. (Letters written and replies received on issues raised, and copied to all those attending). It's been going on for a while now.
If there is a complete withdrawal of troops from Iraq, and the new style of local involvement is sustained, I will certainly vote Labour again, for the first time since 1997!
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Excellent Jeremy (30/10) last night!David's report was priceless - on why GB has done a U-turn on TV debates. Well if he won't even do an interview with Jeremy, what hope does he have in a proper debate with Jeremy chairing it? Oh and loved the 1987 footage of Jeremy on Newsnight too, and the "mass debates" thing was funny too. The Jane Tomlinson tribute was fantastic too - I'd never known Alistair Campbell had done so much for charity and why. Good on him! Off topic: I think it may have been interesting to have Dr. Aric Sigman analysing GB squirming at the thought of a "mass debate" too. :-)
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Altruism
Ask a philosopher? Well...
[According to the divided line analogy of the neoplatonists] if the highest thing in the visible world is the sun so the highest thing in the mind is that which is called the Good or the One.
When one turns the focus away from the images of the senses [the world of the sun] to the world of the mind and the 'idea' [greek for vision] of the Good or the One then the world of images becomes like an illuminated manuscript and the belief of separate 'others' [the images] falls away so then one can see the interdependence of all things and the unity behind them.
If altruism is considered as working for the interest of others you must believe there is a category called 'others' either [depending which way you are looking] as separate unconnected images or as expressions of the One.
So two people can be doing exactly the same thing; one believes in others as separate from oneself [image thinking and conjecture] and the other [focus turned to the Good or the One] see 'others' as no different from oneself. So altruism is a quality of action based on love.
So the real or higher understanding of 'self love' is to help 'others' because they are seen as no other than yourself. If 'others' are in ignorance you are in ignorance if 'others' are in pain then you are in pain etc.
For those interested on learning about the divided line there is an excellent video on google. search for:
Platonism and Alchemy (full video)
and find out what the university system didn't want you to know. :)
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For the first time I saw Alistair Campbell as a human being instead of a pathological self-adulator. It was a most interesting discussion about the consequences of reacting bravely and positively to a diagnosis of terminal illness and I hope Newsnight will follow the item up by giving us more about the research in progress.
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