成人论坛

The bebo idea was terrible. It descended into a mob of fascist, ignorant yobs hounding out the people who actually had enough brain cells to justify their beliefs. I'm embarassed to be called a teenager at the moment.

1 in 7 primary school children speak English as a second language, so I don't think there's any need to worry about pupils in Britain not studying foreign languages, when such a large proportion of children in British schools are foreigners or children/grandchildren of foreigners anyway.

There isn't a single world government (yet), so why should they consider themselves to be citizens of the world?

British school children don't have to look outwards towards the world, because the world has come to them - in many millions!

Live webcast no worky.

I think it was excellent to see Newsnight question the insular teens 'research' as it did. It was yet another example of the manipulated statistics fed too many every day and deserved highlighting as such. It is unacceptable for an organisation such as the British Council to manipulate children and their views for its own agenda as it has done.

Martin Davidson of British Council is paid 拢155,000+ a year by the UK taxpayer to come up with trash like this ..... incredible! And British Council is closing down libraries all over Europe and yet they have the gall to accuse young people in
Britain (most of whom have a better grasp of statistics and how not to do surveys)of being insufficiently engaged with other countries .....!

Winkin', Blinkin', and Nod, one night sailed off in a wooden shoe;

Sailed on a river of crystal light into a sea of dew.

"Where are you going and what do you wish?" the old moon asked the three.

"We've come to fish for the herring fish that live in this beautiful sea.

Nets of silver and gold have we," said Winkin', Blinkin' and Nod.

So the three Magi have visited and paid their respects to the son of god. I feel like I'm on the other side of the looking glass in Wonderland watching a Twilight Zone episode.

The three Magi are of course Sarkozy, Merckel, and Brown. So much gushing gushing gushing over a lame duck President their populations so vociferously claimed they despised so frequently and so loudly the echoes have barely died away. Yet you'd think if these three hadn't felt it would be an impropriety, they'd each have asked Bush to remove his shoes and socks so that they could wash his feet.

Why is this happening? Why have they done what appears to be a 180 degree turn when in reality as far as the US is concerned, nothing has changed much in the last year or two? The war goes on in Iraq and tensions build with Iran. Afghanistan continues to be a problem. Global warming goes unabated and the US makes only token gestures, oil prices rise and supplies are uncertain. China and India will agree to anything to do with stopping global warming as long as it has nothing to do with them making any sacrifices while the earth continues to grow hotter. The Middle East crisis shows no signs of being closer to resolution with yet one more wasted meeting in the offing. And on and on and on. So why the sudden change of heart? Why not wait another fourteen months until the next US President assumes office? What do they want, what do they know? There is only one possible answer, they are scared silly and they want help. The reality of their precarious situation is finally catching up with them and their nations will soon have to face the music. It's too late. There is nothing the President or Congress can do to help them any longer. The policies which work to accelerate the demise of Europe are locked in place and can't be disarmed. It's an economic nuclear first strike and the missiles have already been launched, their targets as good as dead already. The price of oil has hit $100 a barrel and the coming war with Iran could sent it to $200 even $300 a barrel. The dollar is sinking slowly, beautifully, Europe's grossly overindulgent inefficient economies being priced out of their markets. The US is locked in with China not Europe, Europe's fate now inconsequential to the US. The banking explosion in the sub prime US mortgage lending market hitting European banks and financial institutions the icing on the cake proving their overpaid investors every bit as incompetent as their American counterparts. So much for that terribly overused term "due diligence" by the financial experts, they prove to be the world's biggest suckers every time missing the obvious. Russia looks like it will start shipping oil and gas Europe was counting on to China and India. How will Europe keep warm and run its factories while it pretends it is going to cut back on fossil fuel consumption? And then there is the enmity of the American people who have watched their elected government being chided again and again by Europeans for every action they take from not making stupid one sided concessions at Kyoto to ignoring the perceived threat of Iraq as Europe tried to block US interruption of the illegal mountain of profits sleazy European wheelers and dealers were making with Saddam Hussein indifferent to America's security concerns. From Extraordinary renditions to banana exports from America companies in central America, from so called American Frankenfood to American propensity for driving their own cars and keeping their homes comfortable year round we've heard nothing but whining from Europe. America doesn't care what happens to Europe anymore. I'd like someone to explain this supposed "special relationship" Britain thinks it has. What was America's history with Britain? Two hundred and thirty years ago Americans some of whose ancestors came from Britain as religious outcasts, indentured slaves, inmate of debtors prisons revolted and threw Britain out. They fought another war over Britain capturing American seamen claiming they were British subjects. The British Army burned down Washington DC including the White House. Britain sided with the South in the Civil War because it felt a divided America would be to its benefit. The US saved Britain from complete defeat in two world wars and shielded it from a third while supporting its little tiff with Argentina over a few islands in the middle of nowhere in the South Atlantic more populated by sheep than people. And France's special relationship? They helped the Americans defeat Cornwallis at Yorktown over two hundred years ago and in return the US saved them from defeat by Germany twice in the 20th century. Both France and the US fought for their own self interest, not out of consideration for the other. As for Germany, the US defeated it militarily as a force destructive to civilization twice without any retribution whatsoever, in fact it made considerable sacrifice after the second time to rebuild and protected it from would be Soviet invaders. And we in America see how we've been repaid. We have a saying in the US; no good deed goes unpunished. And we have another; what comes around goes around.

Now Winkin' and Blinkin' are two little eyes and Nod is a little head.

And the wooden shoe that sailed the skies is a wee ones trundle bed.

So close your eyes while mother sings of wonderful sights that be.

And you shall see those beautiful things as you sail on the misty sea

Where the old shoe rocked the fishermen three - Winkin', Blinkin' and Nod.

Europe, if you get a spare moment and think of it, drop us a line. A few words on a post card will do. One with one of those pictures of a castle in the Alps. I鈥檒l pin it on my tackboard as a remembrance when you鈥檙e gone.

Dear Newsnight

I'm intrigued by post 1, what is this story Newsnight?

Also thought the Bebo chief exec acquitted herself very well last night. One question did seem to invite her to lay into the British Council chief, and most interviewees would have obliged, but she kept to her course and came across as very fair minded.

as for the Mansion House speech, we need a little zing in all of this stuff, at least I do, seems all very boring and predictable, and sad, the special relationship... what?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Congratulations I didn't realize that Newsnight had won the contract for PR services to Hizb ut Tahrir. Your efforts last night were exemplary and certainly set a high standard for the future. Your spin master (reporter) must be very pleased with herself as she managed the seemingly impossible task of presenting this extremist organization, dedicated to the overthrow of western democracies, and described by western intelligence agencies as the ant chamber of Al Qaeda, as the victim of oppression. At what point do 成人论坛 editors and reporters ever begin to realize that they are being used for someone else's purposes. Here we have one 成人论坛 reporter being fed a story by a local journalist who clearly set up the narrative, provided the contacts, facilitated the interviews and generously laid it on a plate for the 成人论坛 reporter to regurgitate. The 成人论坛 reporter duly scooped it up, throwing in the odd front of camera shot just to help give the impression it was her story. I had mistakenly thought that the 成人论坛 had learned its lesson during the Lebanon conflict where it had been repeatedly duped by Hezbolla for propaganda purposes. Sadly seems not.

Peter re (12) Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am not, however, much reassured by your disclaimer that the piece was not propaganda. Good Propaganda is about presenting a message to an audience with the intention of facilitating a desired outcome. Excellent propaganda is about doing that without seeming to. HT will have precious little interest in using Newsnight to influence the people of the central asian republics. They would however have considerable interest in dampen any possibility of constraining their activities in the UK. Thus their intent would be to direct a message to a UK audience, that message being ...constraining our activities will be anti democratic and counter productive. Ideally they needed a suitable vehicle to project that message to opinion formers in the UK. Newsnight fills the bill perfectly. All they need then do is create a story around the message and feed that story to the 成人论坛 . The story in this case could be managed by HT sources international. They would provide the narrative to the reporter, in this case the the rise of HT in response to oppression in a central asian republic. Project a positive image of HT as a successful victim of oppression, Focus on the prisoners wives angle and control the reporters access to interviewees etc. The reporter would then be projecting the HT propaganda message that constraining them is anti democratic and counter productive. You piece last night seemed to fit that perfectly.

Gordon and Peter, I spend my life trying to resist conspiracy theories but when I add together the strong intellectual tradition in islam and the overt criticism of western culture it seems it would be illogical not to make the assumption that islamicist intellectuals lurking in british institutions would view the british media as 'other' rather than as part of the same 'team'.

i was delighted that the tv news chose not to include the mcb pronouncement at the weekend as a headline story even though it was front page of a newspaper. i posted to richard watson's blog that i thought the real message of that press release was to signal to british muslims to put their shariah beliefs above british law (seeing as how british law states that a woman's clothing should not be considered relevant).

we are developing parallel structures. there is now talk of a muslim car.

i do think newsnight is a bit naive not to realise that they are being beaten at their own game.

liberals think they are invincible but i think it is the spirit of liberalism that will survive rather than necessarily this civilisation (the first liberal civilisation). i do believe that whatever happens at this point in history, liberalism will resurface because it seems to me to be the only hope of peace (and gender equality) on earth, but that doesn't mean it will necessarily dominate this time round. evolution is the history of false starts. we should take head of jock stirrup's words and not be complacent.

psssttt! Ed! You can never put your foot in the same river twice!!!

heed, rather

When 'liberals' attack Islam for its alleged sexism, why do they turn a blind eye to Orthodox Judaism? Is it because these are the shock troops' breeders?

Adrienne - I am increasingly surprised that your posts get through the censors. I assume the censors have not been following the subtext with which you string data together.

wappaho (#21) - Groups look after their own, why should pointing that out ever be subject to censorship in an Open Society? In human hegemonic competition it's called politics.

There's no 'subtext', nor, I hope, do I just 'string data together'.

Adrienne, alleged sexism? Islam as a religion is not sexist, no, men and women are equal, but the men who interpret it for their own ends? Does Iran say anything to you? The women helped overthrow the Shah and for what? Choice to wear a veil became an obligation for a start, never mind the loss of most of their rights and the reinstating of the men's (such as polygamy). If Islam is a stage, the men are the puppeteers. If the HT dominated the world platform I wouldn't hold out much hope that life would be any better for the women who fought on their behalf. Sexual politics are at the heart of Islamist movements

The Hizb ut Tahrir have always worked subtly. That's one reason why we have found it hard to ban them. They are not overtly violent. Their principles are, on a quick glance, quite socialist. They move in on the poor and those who are suffering as underdogs.

However, their 'socialist principles' only apply to men. Once caught in the web, women are kept on their backs in their traditional Islamic role as breeders of sons.

These women in Kyrgyzstan are just pawns in the Islamists game.