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Bush and Brown: I wish i could watch the news conference, because it must have been interesting.

Caroline Spellman, i hope you can elaborate more about this at the meeting.

INTO THE DARK (Europe is just a symptom.)

Today an 'unspeakable' man had breakfast with an unbelievable man. In alliance, these two have left a physical and psychological scar on the planet that will endure. The spectacle of a high-profile meeting between two damaged psyches, with delusions of god-given right to bring terror and destruction to others, in the name of freedom and peace, is a GIANT MARKER for the mess mankind is in.
If these two were your sons, how would you feel? If you were duped into believing them to be good men, how did that happen?
Something is very wrong with the way western mentality has hijacked the administration of the global asylum. The lunatics have now run it long enough to generate a surfeit of clone wannabe leaders. You can see them straining at the leash. They will soon take control bringing more of the same.
We nice folk rail against Mugabe. He has been so obligingly overt in his aberrance. But Bush and Blair run parallel in inflicting their wildly delusional 'realities' on others; the only difference is an emphasis on export by 'our guys'.
If the mass of enfranchised voters continue to vote in terms rosettes, charisma, crude advertising and complex bribery, that deeply indigestible breakfast will lead on to a poisonous lunch and a 'dark teatime of the soul' way beyond the imaginings even of Douglas Adams.
The above disaster will not be corrected by religion, schooling, commerce, wealth or 'leadership'. Only the promotion of INDIVIDUAL life-competence, leading to a quiescence and wholeness of being (so terrifyingly absent in my leading players and in 'leaders' generally) has any chance of reducing humanity鈥檚 rising angst.

Kofi Annan :

The pledges should have been deliever by now...it has been 3 years and counting.

What are the chances of somebody asking Bush why he is such a wimp and relies on 8 days detention before charge? Macho Brown has got us to 42 days at the minute.

Also does he fear on that issue that Murdoch will run a Fox candidate against McCain on this issue?

Do alliance leaders base their domestic strategy on Senator McCarthy?

Is he also learning about our high standards in the intelligence/security world? Can he pick up his briefing on the trains in the US at the same time as a Metro? We can.

Do CIA agents run similar stings to the one in the Formula One/Mosely affair?

Is he worried about legal actions after he is President - assuming he is not immune - with regard to Iraqi oil and rebuilding contracts?

If the Iraqis decided the US should leave would they - Maliki was talking of an impasse? Would they force renegotiation?

Will the Beeb ask tough searching questions?

Nah!

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS

I was just pondering the utter affront to decency and humanity of Bush being welcomed by the Queen - and it popped into my head.

thegangofone: I thought the CIA were behind everything from the faked moon landings to Elvis's death? Exposing Mosley would be small potatoes. Incidentally 'expose' would be a better choice of word than 'sting' as there's no evidence that Mosley was enticed to the 'venue' and regardless of any conspiracy theory he did what he did and should take the consequences. Personally I think its quite amusing rather than sinister.

On a more serious note you get what you pay for: our security service staff are paid far less than Shell tanker drivers and work longer hours. Frankly cock-up is inevitable and its fortunate that the 'secret' documents don't seem too secret. Pay at the CIA, while still not great, is a damn site better than at MI5.

As a viewer who's often critical of the programme, I must compliment Gavin Esler on his tough questioning of that wretched eurocrat woman on Friday's programme,re- the EU machine's attitude to the Irish Referendum.I thought he was entirely representative of the frustrations of many of us, as was John Humphries on Saturday's 'Today' programme, and was astonished to see him criticised in the press over the weekend for being too soft. It was much appreciated Gavin.

On Kofi Annan is it worth asking how if the AU rejects dictatorship Mugabe can make the threats he did about armed violence along with some odd murders, beatings and starvation of opponents? Its not exactly new or Western propaganda.

Also is the AU going to lose even the existing stability and suffer from "domino" effects around the continent?

I am thinking Darfur to Chad. Zimbabwe to South Africa. Sub-Sharan conflicts and al Qaeda to Nigeria. Kenya to Uganda. Rwanda and Congo.

If the AU does not take some real initiatives then there won't be any AU for much longer?

#7 Peter_Sym

The moon landing was faked!! Elvis dead? Bunny rabbit heaven is a lie?

I have zero sympathy for Mosely. I have concerns about the effectiveness of control and vetting. I know no system is perfect but this guy thought he could get away with it. That tells you a lot about his training and the culture.

If somebody tried a stunt like that with say Salmond to try and sway the 2010 independence referendum there would be hell to pay!

I take your point about the pay, its probably true - remember though walls have ears.

Most of them will diligently do their job and probably have to take risks that none of the public would countenance.

But overall I still see them as out of control and ineffective on the basis of my past and what I have read. Not as well sourced as your views I suspect in fairness but I know where I would put my money.

MI5 get credit over the 2006 airport arrests - but then as previously discussed I am never going to be a fan of theirs.

I liked your comment about white collar crime being too lightly punished on one of the other blogs by the way. Very true.

thegangofone: to be honest what Mosley did as far as I can see was legal and personally I'm (just) of the opinion that it shouldn't have been published as its not relevant to his job which itself is barely a public role. The 'nazi' aspects seem somewhat played up to make a juicier story.

If it was Salmond (or Brown, Blair, Cameron etc) on the other hand I'd be in favour of publishing as its important we know what our leaders morals really are. If Salmond is worthy of leading a nation he should have the brains to live his life whiter than white or face the consequences (Tommy Sheridan springs to mind).

I've seen no evidence that MI5 had anything to do with the story although given the predilictions of senior government men for this sort of thing I can certainly see the advantage of a dominatrix 'in the firm'... better she's working for MI5 than the KGB!

If MI5 are ineffective (and to be honest if the total lack of succesful terror attacks count for anything they're doing a good job) its because they're TOO controlled. Remember they have no powers of arrest which is almost unique for an internal security service. MI5 need a warrant and a special branch cop and anyone detained at their request is held by the police in the regular criminal justice system.

PS Glad you share my opinion over white collar crime. When you compare the sentences people like Ernest Saunders get to the senteces of the Great Train robbers you realise there's little equality in the law.

#11 Peter_Sym

Yee Haa?! Lets all shoot our guns in the air!. It was just horseplay.

I think the fact that the officer got involved in that was a tad worrying. The dominatrix should not have made it through vetting I would have thought. Hoped maybe.

Don't know if you remember it but there used to be the joke:

What is the best run department in the Soviet Union? Answer: MI5.

What is the second best run department in the Soviet Union? Answer MI6. Maybe it was vice a versa.

Lets agree to disagree.

The things you say reassure you and they don't reassure me. Thats too much behind the scenes influence and is very dangerous in my world.

They shouldn't go near politicians and do. Betty Boothroyd said she was approached before becoming Speaker.

If you have a Ruskie spy in there what wouldn't they know?

Re-11.
The Max Mosley story reminded me of the Martha Stewart ' scandal'. Few in Britain knew of this woman. Fewer still cared that she'd carried out insider dealing in US. The media decided that they were going with the story, so they devoted space to explaining that this person is a household name in the States, then say 'Any
way, apparently she's done so and so....'; they then ladle up more of this nonsense when she's released.
A relatively small proportion of the population have more than a passing interest in F1 racing, and fewer still would have known Max Mosley from the backside of the moon. Mosley holds no official position as far as I know, certainly not one which requires him not to attend any orgies. All of which makes one wonder why the plastering of the details of his private life over the Sundays' front pages, was felt to be necessary. Next thing it emerges that an MI5 officer's wife was present at the bash, followed by a denial that MI5 was involved. And then an official stop appeared to be imposed on the story.
I'm more interested in Bush's state of mind after years as a drunk, and his multiple insider-dealings scandals, than Martha Stewart's. "Phillip-count the cutlery!"

I don't want to start a debate here. I haven't the time to engage with one. But I really think it's time for either Newsnight or Panorama to critically revisit the issue of Peak Oil.

"If you have a Ruskie spy in there what wouldn't they know?"

Not too much. All our agencies are quite well compartmentalised so a soviet agent in MI5's counter-terrorism unit would know everything about counter terrorism, but virtually nothing about counter-espionage etc.

The only danger is that you get a REALLY succesful agent who becomes a deputy head of MI5 etc. but the only way you can 100% guarantee this doesn't happen is not to have a security service at all and thats simply madness.

As far as monitoring our government goes- GOOD! If you take certain politicians (like Ken Livingstone in the late 70's early 80's) they were far too cosy with the Soviet Union. A Russian (or Chinese or even American) agent in Parliament is as dangerous as one anywhere else and our politicians do not have a good record on corruption or vunerability to blackmail.