成人论坛

JUDGEMENT DAY

Obama has called Hillary an EXTRAORDINARY candidate. But she has shown herself disingenuous, obsessive and capable of miss-speaking; I would call that bog standard in politics. So much for the wisdom and judgement of Obama.

THE POLISH QUESTION

Please don't debate this - alive or dead. We will get nowhere that way. Let us work it out, then we will tell you. Deal?

I heard that tory MP on today; sounds bloody crazy

ART AND INDECENCY.

Ah! We shall need to look at a lot of naughty bits to decide this one I suspect.
Where is Joan Bakewell (the leery aesthete's crumpet) when you need her?

American Elections......"So far solitary Newsnight viewer?" (Ref. your today's newsletter).......Not likely!!

I am also fed up to the hind teeth with your excessive coverage. When are you going to realise that we are part of Europe and not the USA?
There are plenty of vital issues in Europe that you persistently and totally ignore. Instead, you just reinforce the view that this country behaves as if it is part of the US and not Europe (Poodle syndrome). For goodness sake, give us a break and start giving the airtime you give to US issues to European ones. That is, if the 成人论坛 spin culture allows you to do that.

It is time you realised that attaching ourselves so closely to the only superpower, does not make us a superpower. The British Empire is no more....We are just another EUROPEAN country.

the self declaration of victory does nothing for the fact that he was not elected by popular vote but by super delegates and by hype from people that feel the guilt of being to white or thinking that the US politics will change from one day to the other, when the reality is that he has to face the opposition and no matter what people think he is a politician that cannot make miracles, the rulers of the country are corporations not the white house, they're but a front, not the power. the clintons in 8 years in the white house were hampered by the two houses or other agendas having to do with corporate greed and the american people, what makes you think that he will do any better, get real! do what you need to do for yourself and stop waiting for a politician to do it for you. this is nothing but symbology with no meaning. hope my ass!!!!!

OLMERT-BUSH TALKING POINT FOR 5 JUNE

dpa reports that the Israeli newspaper Jediot Achronot says Olmert's visit to Washington is urgently press for attack on Iran while the latter's nuclear arsenal is still very small and that the attack should take place before Bush leaves office.

An Iranian correspondent who lived long in Tehran has an article in the Christian Science Monitor (csmonitor.com) claiming that the Iranians again like the USA.

It is time for the West to look at the map and at history. Iran has a strategic position adjoining Russia, athwart the Middle East and at the entrance to Asia. It has oil. The urban population is well-educated (there are more female university graduates than male, their medical research is very good, etc.)

Half the population is under the age of 25. They are much more receptive to popular American culture than to the restrictions of the mullahs. Consumer goods and television are eagerly sought,
while the religious police are trying to tear down the satellite dishes.

A policy of threat has served to unite the population behind their religious leaders and against the West, but the population is chafing under the restrictions of the mullahs. The Iranian President has sought talks with America and has been rudely rebuffed.

It is time for talks, diplomacy, trade and cultural exchange. Let intelligence guide us, rather than the propaganda of Israel.

I don't want that viewer to be solitary.

The run-up to the American election doesn't particularly concern us here. We have been drenched with coverage of the Democrat fight. A brief summary is more than enough.

Of course the USA affects us all - more's the pity. Yes even down to the Kellogs in the morning. (Do you know why that man created that food? You should.) Some coverage of the MCain-Obama fight should be shown. Just who is going to run the world is worth knowing.

But the Democrat issue is not very relevant. At least now the misery is over. Now we can look for being drenched for another 6 months in American politics. As if the English version isn't tedious enough.

ANOTHER TURBULENT PRIEST

Bomma-Bama seems to feel it lies within His power to gift Jerusalem to Israel - beat that Messiah Blair! You'll believe a man can fly - he already does believe. Where do these delusionals come from? And why do we let them get to the top? I invite you to look hard at all the 'leaders' you can bring to mind and to ponder their characteristics, as ultimately revealed. As far as Britain goes: when you approch the polling booth at the next election, remember that the rosetteers of Sedgefield knew NOTHING of Tony's mental state when they put that slip in the slot. Every barmy PM begins life as a 'harmless' rosette-stand candidate in some mundane constituency, vowing to fix whatever they want in the name of the party. It is the plot of a horror movie.

....and when the US elections are over and the new President is in the White House, our news programs, sadly including Newsnight , will bombard us for weeks with investigations/reports as to whether the "Special Relationship" is still alive under the new President.
You don't believe me? Wait and see....it happens every single time....So predictable....So sickening....
In the mean time Europe does not exist as far as our media is concerned.

The media in the USA is just too bright, biased, flashy, shallow and over-the-top to ignore. And apparently it's contagious!

Last year from May to about this January, every news programme had one topic dominating all else, even months in, half of the time slot was still taken up with the one topic, as were all other news programmes, eventually you just had to change channels it went on so long. This year it's going to be the American elections that dominate. Yes it is important and most people are interested in an up-date. AN UPDATE would be enough, but the media like a story they can follow, get lot's of interviews and it must have the camera's and crews so that it is turned into a production, if there is an element of drama, human interest or as in this case the buzz of the elections, you have a story that can be developed, add opinions and discussions etc. That is what television is about, the clue is in the word 'vison' but it can become relentless to the point where lot's of people begin to avoid the news but as with politiics, no one listens, they've got their agenda and stick to it-head in the sand. I for one will not sit through a programme filled with more of the same and day after day until this election is over I'm afraid I'll have to switch off after a minute or two of watching. Following candidates arround does not appear to me to be as described at the top of this page as "the most important major political event in the world this year" that is how you justify devoting tonights programme to it. I don't feel at this stage it has any importance to us. We have no influence in who the American public put into the white house. That's another media frenzie we have to face and can understand the level of coverage that will create if not the amount of time we must suffer watching it. Why is it you think Britain should be interested in the electionering to the extent the television news media want us to be. I'm in agreement with comment 5. I'm fed up to the hind teeth with it also.

We are British living in Argentina and following various countries' coverages of the USA election. The British coverage confuses us a little as we aren't sure who an "American president" would be, but I suspect that Hugo Chavez or Evo Morales would like to see themselves as representing their continent. Argentinians also consider themselves to be American, as do Bolivians, Canadians, Cubans and rather a lot of others. Basic geography lesson coming up: America is a continent, the USA is a country. So far, America has never had a president. The fact that the two entities are so frequently conflated is little short of linguistic colonialism. Come on 成人论坛, you don't have to buy into the USA's narcissistic belief that they are the only country in the continent (or should I say, universe)

God, the Conservative M.P. who berated 'anti-Polish' media bias, is demented. His pretty weak performance in the 'debate' seemed to prove this.

Whilst I despise "The Daily Mail" and much of the tedious '成人论坛's output, they are not responsible for a person's actions; 'free will' is.

Do you really think a thug watches "Question Time" (why does any body?) or reads "The Daily Mail" (likewise)? Thugs act in a violent manner because they're thick and poorly raised, not because they're avid "Question Time " viewers or "Daily Mail" readers.

Why is this basic logic - the understanding of 'cause and effect' - beyond people?

Just to inject a little sanity into the Obama / McCain "stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons" debate perhaps it would be useful to point out that the entire American "Intellegence community" said in it's Dec 3 2007 National Intelligence Estimate that Iran has no nuclear weapons program, something reported by the 成人论坛 no less just follow the link -



So why was the lie about an Iranian nuclear weapons program allowed to be propagated on Newsnight? Do the Newsnight team not know the facts or did they just drop down Orwells "memory hole", Fox News / Soviet Pravda would have been proud of that lie of omission, and having a moments sanity at the end with Hockney doesnt make you "fair and balanced" either.

Signed a disappointed, but not surprised viewer.

It was enlightening to see the Tory MP on the question of 'Polish Immigration'. In many ways he represents the contradictions of his party and leader. The fact he fought for greater recognition of the Polish contribution to the UK, partly from his own Polish background, was promising. Perhaps, I thought, they're not the nasty party after all? But then the real subject of his disagreement became obvious; he wasn't 'concerned' so much with the source of the attacks on Poles so much as perceived 'liberal' bias of the 成人论坛. Rod Liddle and Clare Short said something that got up his nose!

I'm pretty sure the 成人论坛 never described Polish immigration in the language of most tabloid newspapers. Actually I learned a lot of good things about Eastern European immigrants through the 成人论坛 - this is hardly the case elsewhere (The Mail, The Express etc.). It was slightly sad to watch this pleasant but otherwise bone-headed MP put his fingers in his ears, ignore the latest data about Polish immigrantion and the vulgar headlines about them (which reflect and fuel the pretty racism common in England) and say it was all the 成人论坛's fault.

All we need is another decade in the ideological distortion zone. Where are the truly pragmatic politicians out there, where empiricism counts more than their own prejudice?

How ironic that the most productive and hardworking immigrant group... the Polish are always mentioned first in any list that you read or hear about when the immigration debate rears up in our media (everyday now). The Polish Tory MP has a point with his charge that the 成人论坛 has used the Poles all too often when illustrating the fault lines of uncontrolled immigration. The fault lines often mentioned are: pressures on social services, healthcare, jobs taken from the indiginous, wages kept low for manual workers, i.e within the building trade, food production, factories ect, and all fair comments too i would suggest.

The fact is the 成人论坛 was never going to use an African immigrant group such as the Somali or Nigerian for example when any immigration debate is aired (or written about) because the mind set within the 成人论坛 / Governing elite has always viewed criticism towards African/Asian groups as somehow true racism but criticism can be levelled at white Europeans without the fear of appearing 'racist'. The chattering classes who, with the 成人论坛 has slowly woken up to the fact that the large scale influx of different cultures and races onto these shores since 1997 is evidently becoming problematic but still they find it hard to bring themselves to question immigration, but will, almost automatically when needed, use the Poles as an example when questioning this subject, its the easy target with little or no comeback (until today!). Can i suggest that the 成人论坛 get brave and from now on when debating this issue, introduce an immigrant group other than the Poles; using simple criteria; which ever immigrant group contributes little or nothing should get the illustrative mention. I wont provide you with a list, you can work that one out for yourself.

Cant think why i didnt bother to watch newsnight last night ...... do you look at your viewing figures ... does US pre election fever get them up ... as they say?

I have to agree with part of the "Anonymous quote from your Duty Log", published in your recent email.

Around 99% of Britons ARE sick of the SATURATION US Presidential Election Coverage shown on UK TV.

Their damned "Circus" goes on for MONTHS and by the time the final result is announced, UK TV Channels will have rammed more US Election crap down our throats than the coverage we get for our OWN elections !

The comment by Newsnight in the said email is both right and wrong.
Right, because what happens in the US does effect almost everything in the UK. But this is largely because our own government is so INEFFECTIVE that they ALLOW US Politics and Commerce to Dictate what happens in the UK.
And wrong, because the US Administration is even more Corrupt than our own, and NO MATTER WHO gets elected, US Foreign Policy will continue to EXPLOIT the Third World and be RESPONSIBLE for more MISERY, SUFFERING and POVERTY, its PROTECTIONIST stance will continue to prop up US Business, and its WAR MONGERING and BULLY TACTICS will continue to be the BIGGEST OBSTACLE in the path of World Peace.

So, since the US Elections won't actually CHANGE a Damned Thing, your complainant is CORRECT. We do have FAR TOO MUCH US Election Coverage on UK TV.

Anti Polish Feeling ?
Why stop with just the Poles ?
Our Government and the 成人论坛, along with all our other Media Channels are GUILTY of RACISM as they endlessly complain about Europe and Immigration in general.

The FACT is that Britain's Population is growing at a LOWER rate than almost any other individual country, and the World average.

So IF we are being "SWAMPED" with Immigrants, from Poland, or ANYWHERE ELSE ..... where the heck are they all hiding ?

Or are just as many people LEAVING Britain, as there are Immigrants coming in ?
If this is the case then we NEED those Immigrants to STABALISE our population that would otherwise be COLLAPSING !

And who is responsible for the "Rats Fleeing the Sinking Ship" ?
Who else but our CORRUPT, USELESS Government. The very body that endlessly COMPLAINS about all the people coming into the coutry, is the very same body that is DRIVING vast numbers of our decent citizens, OUT !

barriesingleton wrote:

"Bomma-Bama seems to feel it lies within His power to gift Jerusalem to Israel - beat that Messiah Blair!"

It is in his power. If the US president wished to deploy the full might of the US military in support of Israel then Israel could stretch from the Med to the Persian Gulf in a couple of weeks.

Re.: Today's Quote for the Day (American Elections)

Gavin,
the solitary viewer complaining with too many reports may be wrong but your comment is equally depressing considering that we thoroughly depend on American products.
Let's seriously think: is there really any homemade UK/EU products independent from the US? If the answer is "no" then our situation is a tragedy!

What a boring show congratulations all concerned and to make matters worse James Rubin appears well done !

Thanks for Question Time tonight

/blogs/magazinemonitor/2007/01/how_to_say_barack_obama.shtml

It's getting embarrassing...

#21

That looks like a pretty good description of Armageddon! However, that Obama's mentality allows Blair-like omnipotent thought, in keeping with so many other intemperate 'leaders', is what I was raising.

#25. Armageddon IS a town in Israel and many fundamentalist Christians in the US have a vision of the end of the world (which they welcome as of course it ends in their salvation and the rest of us BBQ-ing forever) starting from an Israeli-based WW3.

Not a nice idea.

I agree that a lot of leaders do have your 'omnipotent thought' thing, but unlike Blair the US president is one of only 2 or 3 people on the planet who literally can act like a God if he so wishes. Fortunately the US system has always prevented this so far........

Mark Easton on the subject of immigration: "It became a no-go area..."
No it didn't. The population at large have never stopped talking about it but someone in govt, and the 成人论坛 as the govt's mouthpiece, decided to make it a no-go area.

Immigration became a no-go area when couched in the terms that Tory MP used; he said he wanted the debate to be about more 'controversial' immigration and then mentioned 'abuses of the asylum system'. Immigration and asylum and two different things, and only someone with a political agenda would want to conflate them. Likewise, while he wanted to separate 'legal' immigration from 'controversial' immigration, he failed to admit that the people perpetrating the attacks on Polish people didn't like ANY form of immigration. Instead of questioning that, his strategy was merely to shift the 'fire' onto another group. This buffoon even mentioned the 'French' at one point.

The Polish immigrants, which I have no problem being here (finally I can buy decent brown bread locally!) are bringing a bigger cultural change - that's the point. The area where I live is predominantly Asian, but even the Indian grocery stores have started selling tinned fish and Polish bread. When my electrician father gets home, he goes on about Eastern European labour in the building trade. There's an extent to the cultural penetration that's bigger than a few Somalis (a tiny and sadly much vilified group).

All I want is people to be honest here. The Tory MP is saying 'controversial immigration' means immigration other than from the EU is bad, that people don't mind 'other white people' coming here and it must be the 成人论坛 behind their racism.

What he doesn't want to admit is that the feeling of not liking 'controversial' immigrants also extends to much of the 'legal' migrants too. Asylum seekers after all can't work, while EU migrants are predominantly economic migrants (the quality of life, if the not the economy being better at home).

This bizarre political contortion is pretty common though. Even in my area a lot of the Asian people can't stand the new migrants, even though their ancestors were migrants who suffered racism too. You either come out and stand against that racism though, but to play political games creating an 'in' group and an 'out' group is dangerous - with the potential to demonise some at the expense of others, to give permission for more attacks across many communities.

#15. It makes perfect sense for Iran to make a civil nuclear power program: it can sell its oil and gas for far more than the cost of generating electricity from nuclear.

What DOESN'T make sense is that Iran wants to make its own reactor fuel at enormous cost rather than just buy the stuff cheap from China/Russia/France or anyone else who'd be happy to do business.

Equally the fact that Iran has recently tested missiles with a 2000 mile range yet unable to carry large enough conventional warheads to do any damage given the relative innacuracy of the weapon looks very bad indeed.

Its funny how the same people who abuse the intelligence community for the Iraq WMD fiasco suddenly accept their judgement as being flawless when they say someone doesn't have WMD......

Possible transcript of a meeting in television house:-

成人论坛 Exec 1:- The people have sussed us out about only reporting about the Poles where refering to immigrants, what can we do about it?

成人论坛 Exec 2:- I have the answer Albanians we can pick on them for a bit we should be able to get a couple of months out of them.

成人论坛 Exec 3:- Hey and after that there is still Bulgarians, Romanians, Czechs, Lithuanians and the rest of eastern Europe that we can savage before we even hint at none white immigrants.

成人论坛 Exec 1:- Inspired idea, right then lunch on the expense account anybody? i mean after all its the tax payer who is paying.

After reading Peter_Sym's comment I have been struck by the thought that the problem the established nuclear powers have with Iran building a reactor, may actually be that they're upset about not being able to flog a sub-standard unit of their own on, for a significant amount of course like some shady Arthur Daley type back street second hand car dealer.

squidthing: maybe. The French certainly are very keen on selling nuclear reactors to the Middle East. Osirack in Iraq springs to mind....

The question is 'given that the Iranians can't even maintain their ageing fleet of airliners properly can they do a better job at building a nuclear power plant than the French can....?'

Of course when it DOES do a chernobyl they can blame it all on Mossad and half the world will happily agree with them.

Peter: The Chernobyl like situation as described would only result in hundreds of thousands of muslims dying in the middle east and give reason for armed forces to be deployed "to protect Irans oil fields from further possible terrorist actions"

Oh hang on a minute maybe THATS the plan after all

Squidthing. Yup.... thats why Israel destroyed the two previous nuclear reactors (Osirack in Iraq in the early 80's and the one in Syria last year) it took a dislike to before they were fueled up to avoid that sort of problem.

If an Iranian reactor does burn after they start it up then it could very easily be used as a propaganda tool for any interested side to start a war. We could use it to justify an invasion (although with what beats me) and the Iranians could claim it was hit by the Israeli's and fire something nasty westwards.

American Elections


McCain, will be moving with George Bush's agenda pretty much...

Obama will be moving to repaired the U.S. relations with the other countries of the world.

Polish

Where is the evidence?

I don't know where is his point.

We also hope to be hearing from celebrated artist, David Hockney on art and indecency.

Did this item happend?