成人论坛

Clegg or Foggy or Compo?

Last of the Lib-dems!!!

Sorry - will put my serious head back on again tomorrow.

The Birmingham Post (sufficiently erudite as to be virtually unheard of outside the Second City and little more within) reports that Yardley MP John Hemming is sounding out his support amongst fellow LibDem MP's. He almost ran against Ming et al last time round.

He cites his abilities in business (self made millionaire)and in local government propping up the city's Conservative/Libdem coalition.

Here's to an exciting contest!

It's only been two days Nick for heaven's sake. I have a feeling, judging from the last two days, that even if it was a bloody battle it wouldn't make the front pages. The Lib Dems are in for a serious pasting at the next election methinks.

When I think of the treatment sir Ming campbell has been receiving, my reaction is to say he has been a victim of a culture of obsession with looks and presentation. Age is just an element.

I therefore feel you are reading too much into Huhne's comment. I hope it is not deliberate.

Why don't they just do what they've done in North Korea and declare Gladstone leader for eternity.

Huhne is saying pretty much what I wrote in a previous post about Ming re 'the Camelot obsession'.

There needs to be a balance between a {political} personality and the actual policies he or she is proposing.

But this is all got very boring indeed, unless you are a political 'anorak' like Nick (at least he's being paid for it) and Co.

I do hope that English people, including some disillusioned folk who have posted here, can see that it is possible, using the current democratic system, to change things completely.

All you have to do is vote for an independent candidate at the next General Election.

Nick,

There's a massive obsession with commenting on what the media thinks of people, rather than providing an objective evaluation of persons/policies. Linked to this somewhat is the growing tendency of journalists to make predictions about who will win/which way things will go. Naturally it is nice to get things right, but is this really the point of journalism? The danger is it turns the media inwards on themselves as everybody tries to second-guess the others reaction...

The LibDems are starting to look so pathetic that they give a new meaning to the term 'sympathy vote'--which is how every vote they get in the next general election will be seen.

Why is it that in the insular world of Westminster politics people like Cameron and Clegg are seen as 'young and good looking'? To everyone else they look like middle managers. Scarlett Johansson is young and good looking, not Nick Clegg.

Why is Nick Clegg the overwhelming favourite when it would seem that he played Brutus to Ming's Caesar? Won't the party turn against him because of this?

Nick, I am appalled at your inability to keep your opinions to yourself. It is completely inappropriate for you to use your position of power to continually interfere in the democratic process.

Report what was said. Don't be afraid to ask for an explanation or clarification if you think the meaning is unclear. Don't interpret the words or body language to make your reports more exciting.

I have found that reporting that consists largely of leading questions is usually lacking in substance and designed to feed prejudice rather than inform.

Chris Whoon? At least I knew who Ming Campbell was before and after election as the Lib Dem leader. Who is Nick Clegg?

After a lifetime of voting Lib Dems because I could not stomach voting socialist or tory (now tory modern or tory trad) I feel disenfranchsied because despite what Charles Kennedy did for the Lib Dems when they got to share power they become a shower.

I see the Lib Dems not unlike my fellowship at Church. In my fellowship we are united in Christ but disunited in almost everything else. What is liberal? Compassionate for the minority while governing the majority. The tail is now wagging the dog in all political parties because they are all infiltrated by exactly the same politically active minority interest groups which means there is no longer an agenda for the majority.

A pox on them all but I will vote again for the party whose leader leads his/her party and does not follow the pack if and whenever he/she ever emerges. Alan
Bush

Interesting that Chris Huhne should refer to a "Camelot obsession". Was he referring to JFK or CPK (Charles Peter Kennedy)?

Regarding Nick Clegg (NC) - doesn't he look somewhat similar to DC (David Cameron - not Washington nor AC/DC)? If the electorate have difficulty in identifying their political leaders - might it not be even more confusing for them if the LDs elect a DC clone?

Perhaps they should go back to those "Camelot" days when the party did so well electorally and had a very popular high profile leader - CPK. But he appears to have ruled himself out as a candidate or am I thinking of AG (Al Gore). Very confusing!

"Where people are in charge" ... as opposed to little green men, presumably?

Well done people. This has been a valiant effort to talk up this contest into something interesting. Try as you might guys and, lets face, it we are all political animals who gorged our selves silly over the last few weeks, but this is just not cutting it.
I am a person who joined the Tories after D.C was elected and I couldn't care less about Cleggy. Some in the Tory party are so shell-shocked after their many ugly years in the trenches that they jump at the sound of a car horn. Even then the concern has been widely over reported. Just because there is not much else to say. Clegg declared today. It barely raised a mention on ToryHome.
Having closely followed the trials and tribulations of a changing Tory Pary, it is just not that simple. Ironically, Cleggs' fortunes are not locked against Cameron's but tied to his. Does anyone think that if D.C. was still in the position he was BEFORE the Conf. the LibDems would say be so enamoured with the someone to "combat him"? If D.C wobbles they will all say, lack of experience, too young etc. and that will do for Cleggy aswell.
Cameron has had to deal with the Tory old guard and the non-election. Cleggy will be gifted no such opportunity.
By defining themselves against Cameron they are saying he is threat for the future. I hope they are right. It is flattering.
Cleggs claim to fame is that Leon Brittan wanted him to JOIN the Tory Party. Well that too is flattering. It sounds like Manchester United were interested in him being a player so lets make him captain. But we are still talking about the political version of Acrington Stanley.

@ LiberalHammer - quote of the day!
My problem with Nick Clegg is that he is virtually indistinguishable from David Cameron.

I'm backing Chris Huhne. However, I do hope he will learn the valuable PR lesson handed summarily in defeat to Richard Nixon in the guise of a five o'clock shadow.

Nick,

I think Chris' comment was aimed more at the shallow, blind, superficial bunch referred to as JOURNALISTS.

Your piece shows exactly the problem anyone serious has in talking to the media - all interpretation and no real reporting.

Nick, stop playing the celebrity commentator and get professional!

Clegg is telegenic, good on Question Time but, frankly, untested.
Clegg's big issue is that he is a sort of leftish Tory living in the LibDems. Most of his views whilst moderate and media friendly (EU aside) do not concur with those of the more-left-wing LibDem membership and activist base. Also, he looks like a Cameron clone.

Huhne is not really telegenic, not so good in the media where he comes across as a bit pompous, but has been tested in the previous leadership election where he did well. But his slightly lefter views are more aligned with LibDem membership.
His big issue is his "colourful" business career, investment portfolio, tax affairs and private life.

Surely there's a huge gap for a LibDem left wing candidate?

Nick, the Lib. Dems. are aware that today's British society look at politicians like Hollywood Stars and therefore people vote for the face, charm, charisma, sex appeal, so they will choose Nick Clegg. People are not interested in substance any more! We've lost the plot where management is concerned in U.K. Nick. Look at the 成人论坛 Nick. I only hope you keep your job, so good luck Nick.

I wish just one of the parties would shove off the centre ground - offer something different. It might be an idea that if the Lib Dems are serious about getting more seats - which at the moment has to be their top priority, then they should go to the left of Labour or to the right of the tories. Leave Labour and the Tories to scrap for the centre and whip up support from disillusioned support that want something that's not just bang on centre.
New Labour had to come towards the centre to make itself electable and be able to offer a fairer tax system while keeping core left values.
The Conservatives have left a gaping hole on the right - something that concerningly could fuel nationalism and threatening right wingers.
Either the Lib Dems change their fortunes on their own ground under whatever leader (Kennedy IMO), or they outflank the other tw parties and pick up votes.
But the most worrying thing for the Lib Dems is that if they achieve under 10% in a poll, then there credibilty as a major party will be gone, and they may sink in to political obscurity forever.
Who'd want to be a Lib Dem right now?

Some of you guys who comment on the 成人论坛s reporting need to understand the difference between a personal opinion and professional analysis.

The 成人论坛 only report and offer possible explanations to stories along with the possible view points of how a story may be percieved by different people. In doing this, the 成人论坛 is extremly accurate and far ahead of any other organisation.
It is not unfair to say that the 成人论坛 is held in high esteem throughout the world due to its ability to present the news in an impartial and balanced manner.

This nonsense, which is repeated again and again, that 成人论坛 journalists are biased is ridculous.

I sometimes criticise the way Nick analyses the news but that is very different to accusing him of airing his own opinion as is the accusation often made on this blog.

As it is, I find Nick's analysis of the news generally very good and more often than not, proven accurate.

Come on, Nick! Bloody and bitter battle?!?!

With apologies to Dennis Healy. more like several dead sheep savaging one and other.

Interesting straw in the wind - the Nick Clegg for leader Facebook group has 392 members at present - while the Chris Huhne This Times group has 185 members.

I tend to think that some in the LibDems are getting carried away with their own self-importance. Most leaders become non-leaders by some process or other; maybe a vote or a hotly contested challenge, or a natural end through being in situ a long time. Where Ming is concerned, I'm not entirely sure what to think in relation to his departure and the leadership contest. I have difficulty coming to terms with the point of it all. I actually had a good deal of respect for Ming, as a person of principle eventhough I often disagreed with him, and his departure for reasons of age or whatever do tend to baffle me. The LibDems are in danger of being seen as a rather nasty bunch.

Menzies Campbell beat Chris Huhne on the untested premise that he was a sound, sensitive, and patient leader. Reality showed that he was lacking in this department. Chris Huhne has a much more natural grasp of sound strategy, public opinion, and patience than Menzies Campbell, and remains the superior choice in a very limited field.

His aim of a "fairer and greener society where people are in charge" sounds good but is a little problematic. Clear goals, teamwork, and sensitivity to reality underpin his view but his words don't quite line up with this. If he can inject a little more of that, I expect the Liberals to be more credible, likeable, and successful contributors to government.

The problems of individual and collective responsibility within the party remain, as they do for the Conservative and Labour parties, and the media and public. Raising the quality of leadership across the board can only be good for the nation. If Chris Huhne is careful, considerate, and patient, the Liberals may become part of the solution.

The big problem the Liberals have is their insistence on being different and their obsession with PR. Different perspectives are fine but the competitive nature of British politics just means everyone ends up in a positioning and marketing war that got everyone in the mess we're in today. PR has been spun positively but there's no evidence I'm aware of that says it's any better.

The Liberals need to calm down, relax, and invest in the centre ground. This is important to reduce the policy clutter and bad mouthing in politics, and will help build a long-term positive consensus the nation needs. This would help stop the rot in their polling, give time for them to improve internally, and begin building more solid and long-lasting support.

If Chris Huhne has one big flaw, it's that he needs to get out of his ivory and comfortable tower and meet more ordinary people. It would help him and the Liberals develop a better feel for real problems and help square the charisma circle. Most people don't inhabit the thin air of the political mountains, own seven houses, or throw iPod's around like old socks.

Never mind the Liberal party leadership election - that's ages away.

What is important now is Brown's intended breaking of his leadership election promise - a referendum on the European Treaty / Constitution in all but name.

Come on 成人论坛, get on his back and make him keep to his promise - that's what we expect of you, not hiding the subject under this convenient cloak.

I'm a great follower of politics with no firm loyalties to any party. But I just cannot get interested in this battle for the leadership of the Lib Dems. A non-event if there ever was one. The party is disintegrating - Charles Kennedy can see that hence his reluctance to stand again; he's obviously paid attention to Alex Salmond.

The Lib Dems are destroying themselves. The voters who are sick of Labour realise that that they have to vote for the Conservatives if they want a change of Government. Once that battle is won, then they will be able to rebuild and Charles Kennedy will most likely become leader again.

Mr Huhne is overlooking the most lethal weapon in the leadership contest. The surest way way of ending any LibDem leadership campaign is to be endorsed by Lembit Opik.

Leadership of one of the minor parties(Cons, LibDems etc) seems a mighty short career choice. I am just guessing here, but presumably the pension and post-post renumeration opportunities are pretty damn good.

Personally I was thinking of putting myself up for this job. Let's see, the winner has to dream up a couple of questions a week and present any old policies every few years in the sure and certain knowledge that they will never be put in a position to deliver on them. Compare that to a real job - yep I'm in.

So let's see if I fit the profile,
1. Younger than Ming - Yes
2. Reasonably photogenic - With the right lighting, Yesss
3. Able to ask a question of Mssrs Brown without embarrasing myself - Oh yes.
4. Able to dream up some world beating policy - Not really
5. Comfortable not winning an election - No problem so far!

Yep, I think I am a perfect match - so let's forget all about these Johny-come-latelys... Lib/Dems rise up and vote for me, a man of the people!

As my local MP i turned to Chris Huhne for help with a problem i have been having with the CSA and instead of fighting it for me, he simply forwarded on my letters which i had already sent to the CSA myself. I wanted his help, not for him to pass on my mail. What good would he be leading the Lib Dems?

The current obsession with "has the nice party turned nasty" is terribly simplistic.

The reality is that the Lib Dems are growing up. As their presence in local government and the House of Commons has generally increased over the past decade they have realised that someone suffering from a drink problem, and then someone with an ongoing crisis of media confidence, are non-starters as party leaders. Would you really want to risk Kennedy's hand as PM on the nuclear button?

Just as Cameron has been built up by the media he could equally quickly fall on his sword. Either Clegg or Huhne will be very different leaders of the Lib Dems and either has the potential to pull the party into the 21st century and offer the British public a very different choice at the next general election. If they do that, they will be a real challenge to both the Labour and the Tories and rightly put fear into both these often superficial parties.

If Clegg is considered the most photogenic, the advantage for the Lib Dems will be that he gets continuous media coverage. He will be worth listening to as the Lib Dems have a lot of common sense responses/ policy proposals on the issues of our time - we just dont here about them.

Crucially the Lib Dems must be authentic in their approach and build their credibility by shining a light on the hard work of many of their councillors and activists in improving local communities and empowering individuals up and down the country.

Andrew #37 makes some very interesting observations, especially the ones about not wanting to have someone with a drink problem with their hand on the nuclear button and an aged leader with a crisis of confidence. There emerges the question as to how much confidence an electorate can have with a party which makes such ridiculous selections as leaders.

To Knight or Tomorrow!

As my local MP i turned to Chris Huhne for help with a problem i have been having with the CSA and instead of fighting it for me, he simply forwarded on my letters which i had already sent to the CSA myself. I wanted his help, not for him to pass on my mail. What good would he be leading the Lib Dems?

That's a really good comment, Lisa. Many politicians take on a workload that isn't core to their job. The problem is, many people don't know who to approach or how to go about it. It's a real problem between many people and organisations.

I can cite personal examples where nobody listened or made much of an effort because the facts contradicted the official line, and some random person on the outside didn't have much pull. This is a crisis of personal and institutional ego which wastes effort, costs money and, in extremis, allows people to die.

Layard's comment on returning to management fundamentals, and Giddens comment on looking at root causes is bang on. Too much clutter and misdirected enthusiasm just adds cruft. It slows everything down and can make it more a problem than a solution. Mostly, people don't listen until they hit the reality wall.

Caroline Braziers 'Buddhist Psychology' is a good round trip of these issues. The 成人论坛 is going through its own overblown ego crisis at the moment. It's trimming some fat and cooling off on the public comments from 'celebrity journalists'. Simon Jenkins has a fair take on this but it's a bundle of issues we can all learn from.

Andrew (#37) makes a good comment on this blog topic. He's right to raise the issue of simplistic views and developing maturity but simple doesn't mean simplistic, and developing maturity doesn't mean ignoring reality. Getting the balance right is hard. I think, Nick's lost the plot a little over the past few weeks but remain hopeful.

Perhaps Nick read something in Huhne's facial expression which truly was intended for the media wizz bang Camelot fanciers?

Does Cleggy (Lion) really look better then Huh!ne (Tin Man)?

Will MacCamaroon have to get some designer stubble to compete?

How low can drivel go?

I watched 'this week' yesterday and Mr Huhne came across to me as 'distant', I was willing him to well, he had a chance to score some points against Portillo or Abbott, yet he came across as reactive, unsure and lacking any charisma.

Mr Huhne had a chance during the show to attack both Abbott and Portillos respective governments failure to sort out the NHS, yet he was too nice, he allowed the other two to change the subject.

Mr Huhne has a chance to be the next leader of the Liberals, he seems to be a very capable and intelligent MP, let's hope he starts engaging with the public, end the Ming claims by making a definitive statement (it hardly matters who pushed Ming, rather that someone had the sense to do the pushing).

Comparing Huhne and Clegg is like comparing cavier and chips, with Huhne yet get a committed and moral MP, and with Clegg you just get the Lii Dem version of Cameron.

I am not a natural Lib Dem, however, with the almost identical policies of Labour and the Conservatives, I am prepared to listen to alternatives, and Ming just did not cut the mustard.

Ming's only popular period was during the Iraq war, his anti-war stance was well received (especially by the 成人论坛 and Guardian) and he was credited with skills he did not posses this has been borne out by his list of errors (allowing Brown to use him etc).

For the sake of British politics we need a strong third party, if the Lib Dems get this election wrong it could be a disaster they may never recover from).

Andrew @ 10:58

" CLEGG....WILL GET CONTINUOUS MEDIA COVERAGE".
Dream on.
Coverage of the leadership contest has gone cold and that is with both of your best guys on sale.
As declared above, I was of no political abode until D.C. came along. I am exactly the sort of person you are looking to reconnect with. I have seen Nick Clegg on T.V a few times and to be honest I can't remember a word he has said.
Neil Small @ 8:46 is right on the money.
Anyone wanting to get rid of the Govt. will vote Tory where it counts.
The pursuit of Tory votes will lead, at best, to deep resentment from those who see you as a bar to their removal, or you will be totally ignored.
There is one other possilibity:that you will merely be the stuff of jokes.
All will lead to electoral disaster.
Outflank Labour on the Left[ civil liberties, Trident etc.] or you will die.

Let's face it...politicians need to be attractive and youthful. I certainly would not vote for someone I thought was ugly and past it.

Would you prefer your secrtatary to be attractive and intelligent or ugly and intelligent. I know who I'd choose.

I would advise Nick Clegg not to run so soon. Does he really want to be an ex-leader when he is still only in his mid-forties? Has anyone ever lead their party twice?

Chris Huhne at age 53 years is too old for the post if Liberal Democrat Leader.

That's (almost) all there is to say.

If Huhne, his friends, sources close to him, supporters or colleagues ever said, whispered or thought that Ming Campbell was too old, they have to face up to the logic of their position. Huhne is too old, has hair too grey, looks like a nerd, has a boring tone of voice, and according to the Evening Standard last week, with four properties in London, is too rich to be leader of a modern political party. His political views, intelligence leadership skills and, experience are irrelevant.

Nick Clegg looks like a young Tony Blair.

Case proven.

A political party that has a choice of two candidates who have both been in Parliament for only two years does not deserve to be taken too seriously.

Does anyone else doubt that Cleggy looks like a young Tony Blair? He shares the young Blair's puppyish bounce perhaps, but surely that is it?

MacCamaroon looks like a wet behind the ears PC to me. Looks like he needs Dixon to help dort him out, not sure if he will turn out to be a bad'un really.

He certainly doesn't have the Blair charm, does he?

Gordon Brown has been compared to Richard Nixon in looks, (and much else of course - he is a Labour PM and that goes with the territory).

The jowls and 5 o'clock shadow may make that comparison valid, but apparently the PM was a ladies man when younger, so it may well be that, like the late Harold Wilson, women find him "dishy" for reasons men fail to see.

This will turn out 'just another election', it'll make no difference who is leader because there are no big hitters and there's no one with any clout.

Where is the experience and how log will the young turks?

I feel they are going round in very small circles swapping and changing isn't the answer here.

Clegg will appeal to the British public more clearly than MacCamaroon has.

He looks more human, less like he is worried about life generaally.

Some posters complain about Gordon Brown's beautific smile (that isn't quite the phrase they use).

I gather it comes from his happy familly life, in the wake of past tragedy.

Sadly MacCamaroon still looks haunted, and I don't think that does him any favours.

More news following on from a previous comment - the 'Chris Huhne this time' Facebook group now has 435 members and counting and the 'Nick Clegg for leader' has 607 - the gap is closing as we speak Rob...

Will they be conducting their Leadership election as the Tories did their nominations for Prospective London Mayor ie by Premium rate Phone line?

And can we all join in as the Tories told us we could on that occasion?

Such excitement, has anyone got round to laying odds yet?

Is Simon Hughes President for life?

Do they use premium rate text messaging as the voting method, or is that just to select the Tories' London mayoral candidate?

Does anyone care?