成人论坛

If they do vote themselves an above inflation payrise there will be massive unrest from the rest of the public sector workers.
This is hypocrisy of the highest form.

Nick you say;

It will be fascinating to see how they grapple with this choice in the hours ahead before the vote this evening.


Perhaps you, the 成人论坛, could promote a web site giving the names of all the MPs that vote for these greedy initiatives.

Maybe then the electorate could attach that information to the MPs CV when next they reapply for the continuation of their jobs in 2010.

There is no legitimate reason why MPs expenses should not be in the public domain as it's our money that's being spent. However, the Labour party know they're finished so what have they got to lose by voting to line their own pockets? Certainly not respect.

I know we live in a democracy, but surely this is one thing MPs shouldn't be made to vote on. I would frankly be embarrased to vote on my own salary.

Surely a simple new system of monitorig what they spend would be sufficient, at least it would all be publicly availiable.

This is yet another issue that will turn people away from politics!

Not much grappling really - BIG money will be awarded for 2 reasons.

1. Quite a few MPs are going to get turfed out at the next election, so a good long final suck at the tit of Public Money is sorely needed until the money from books/speeches/consultancies etc starts to roll in.

2. Meanwhile a similar number of incoming MPs will have to be rewarded for the years of holding the torch aloft for their respective parties, and what better reward than a good long suck at the same Public Money tit?

Meanwhile the rest of us will be left sucking a hind tit in the form of ever rising taxes to pay for it all - safe in the knowledge that its all to help the environment and ensure UK's place at the heart of Europe etc etc.

If they give themselves a pay rise, there is precisely zero chance of this government being re-elected.

Therefore it will be interesting to see whether they choose more money or to continue serving the country.

I'd like to see Jacqui Smith and her labour friends "square the circle" about how they must get their independent pay review rise which is above inflation yet the Police who had a similar review were told we can't afford it.

Don't do as I do do as I say!

I think that it would be excellent to have a year or two establishing what the REAL costs that they are allowed to claim when they know they are subject to very detailed scrutiny and checking before the sums are consolidated into a revised income package.

MY guess is that claims will fall dramatically once the MPs know they are being closely watched!

Alas, the worst punishment the voters can apply to these "snouts in troughs" is to vote against them in the next election.
Recalling the lady who cried "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!" I wish that as they are brainless, they could also finish up headless.

I think that our elite in the Westminster Village are so out of touch with the electorate, that the above choices are easy and there will be no need to grapple.

No wonder the turnout at elections is so low. Remind me who they represent?

Roll_On_2010 wrote:"
Perhaps you, the 成人论坛, could promote a web site giving the names of all the MPs that vote for these greedy initiatives."

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Sorry, that should be www.publicwhip.org.uk

For those who want to know who votes for what - may I recommend the excellent

www.publicwhip.org.uk

The results of all parliamentry divisions appear on the morning after...

For clear information on your own MP, there is the equally wonderful .

Nick,

To his credit Brown has previously stated his opposition, both as Chancellor and as PM, to the MPs and others getting pay raises above inflation levels.

If Brown is ignored by his MPs, it will be very interesting.

How will the Bories vote, even more ?

The libDumbs dont count in numers game.

Let us see whether Brown has principles and the bottle to resign and call an election, when at least 150, or possibly the lot, of nuLabour MPs will finish up on the dole.

That is Brown's 'ace in the hole' , he has the card but has he got the bottle ?

Why shouldn't MPs have a pay increase? They still get paid far less than most business leaders and if we want to attract the best candidates to become MPs we have to pay them appropriately. I would rather that my MPs were worrying about how to improve the country than having to worry about their salary.

If the public don't think their MP is doing a job worthy of their salary then they can vote him or her out at the next General Election.

Any betting on the out come ? or have deals been done. The odd knighthood, maybe kicked upstairs, or even sort out the water.

Odds on its a fudge

It's good to see that MP's salaries are worth around 拢135,000 PER YEAR (includind expences), as my salary is not even 10% of that. OK, i agree they are in a position of power and need a salary to be worht the work they do but having expences which allow them to CLAIM for business class and first class travel???? Are they not members of the HOUSE OF COMMONS?? I dont know of any common member of this country who regulary travels business class and first class.

They will vote for more money and the reason why is because it is coming out of our pockets and with the 10p tax law we are paying even more towards their salaries. Perhaps we should have a choice of where our monies go. Pay everyone in the public sector a minimum wage and the electorate decides where the extra money go's. Then we will see who the public belive should get the inflation busting pay increases, nurses, police, social workers, bin collectors or MP's??

It would be too much to expect this collectiom of ne'er do wells not to vote for a pay rise. Don't forget it will also feed through to their very nice pensions.

Nick,

As ever, an interesting post. Also as ever, a predilection for jarring cliches. Please stop using the phrase "let's be clear" - it is as intrusive as it is patronising!

Next we'll be hearing that these lunatics are living in Monaco to further reduce their tax burden, despite the enormous level of fleecing the public purse!

Never have a mob been so out of touch with the norm.

I'm just wondering how the MP's are going to devise a new system that benefits them as much as the old one - but where they can present it to the public as being fairer.

What everyone forgets is that your average (white, middle class, MALE, 30 - 60 yr old) MP actually believes he is doing a good job. He also believes he DESERVES pay increases and quite probably believes that he is more intelligent and useful to society than his own constituents.

When you come from such a position then there is no hipocrisy. You are in fact doing the right thing.

Just remember - these old farts represent you and I....

If they do vote themselves more money I can see a mass protest against parliament.

Oh hang on ... I forgot the Straw Man made protest illegal in ZaNu-Labour Britain.

MPs should be subject to the same oversight and audit as every other taxpayer - no more, no less. They make the rules for the rest of us and, if they consider them fair, should be prepared to abide by them.

I recommend everyone visit Guido Fawkes Blog - hands up all who agree with him ?

Two things.

First, our MP's have a chance to show us they are listening to our concerns they are on a gravy train. No chance but we can hope.

Secondly, your blog says "some" "those" "they" "MP's", but no names, WHY???

Unfortunately most M.Ps. seem to have a little scam running on their expences; Witness the gardening cost's that M. Beckett claimed.

They cant keep their hand's out of the public purse, (snouts in troughs), and most- but not all - are lousy at their job's.

I bet the M.Ps. will vote for their own betterment, and not for our's.

Nick - I dont think it is the least bit surprising that the MPs dont want to improve scrutiny and control of their own expenses.

I have every confidence that you guys in the media will draw the obvious conclusion and continue to investigate. Bring on the whistle blowers and the freedom of information act requests.

If they are not willing to be subject to official scrutiny then lets have them opened up to PUBIC scrutiny.

The press complain about world leaders who line their own pockets. ie In Zimbabwe. They also complain that in the recent elections there, that the voting slips were all traceable, so the authorities could see how people voted. Guess what? Voting slips in UK are all coded, so the authorities can see how YOU voted. I'm really getting disillusioned, Members of Parliament and their accomplices are really taking the p...ss

#27 jon112uk

PUBIC scrutiny?

sounds nasty...... ;o)

The MPs have already been offered a sweetener of 4,200 pounds extra tax free just for turning up,a concept normal workers take as normal not something to rewarded.
I think that pay rises and expenses should be left to a group of the lowest paid,who not only were hit by the removal of the 10p tax rate but because they are so low paid cannot afford a new car and will be penalised with higher road tax, an ideal group to look at MP's pay and expenses.

jon112uk

I hope that was a typo.

I think scrutiny is good, but Pubic scrutiny is one step too far I think.

I don't think you have thought enough about the poor person who would have to carry out the pubic scrutiny.

The only interesting one would be to find out whether Alistair Darling matches eyebrows or hair!

You know what is most galling here is the hypocracy.

For 42 days detention the MP's that backed it say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

Now they reject transparency in thier expenses.

I say to them If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear

15 AGMJames: Who are you kidding. Why the hell should we compare MPs with 'leading' busnessmen. I've had this out before with another blogger. There's nothing to compare. Most MPs would be sweeping the streets without the patronage networks that get them their jobs. The point you seem to miss is this: most of us think they are paid very very well for what they do. Some of us think they are are paid too much (guess which camp I'm in). Furthermore, yeah, we can vote them out at the next election, but we can't overturn whatever it is they decide to vote themselves with regard to their pay and perks. They make me sick. They're a joke. One minute, complaining about rising public and private sector pay, and the next doing what it looks like they're going to do.

Also, Nick, who was that MP that said it was OK to get a new fidge on us, joe and jane public? He should be sacked.

What a bunch. What a shambles. Shame on the lot of them.

Nick
No dilemma! Nothing to get fascinated about! The MPs will vote themselves a whole lot of money. They are revolting.

The MP's basis for getting a pay rise is equivalence with people in a comparable job in the private sector.

As far as I am aware being an MP is a part time job, Monday to Thursday loads of holidays. Many MP's have other interests and derive income from them. A few write articles in newspapers and some have QC after their name and still practice at the bar.

It is therefore very obvious to us all that their MP's salary and expenses are not their only income (unless they are Ministers) so if we are going to comment on MP's salaries let us have all the facts. Anyone know what Ken Clark earned as Deputy Chairman of BAT or David Blunkett with his many other interests?

Nobody asked them to stand for Parliament, they fought tooth an nail to get in. If they don't like the package offered they can do what other people do in the "real world" and resign. Would they all get over 拢100,000 plus a superb pension in the private sector? I suspect far from it, in fact it would appear that being an MP or better still an ex minister is an open door to further riches.

I have never come across a poor ex MP so they clearly are earning more than enough unless they are also banned from accepting outside appointments.

33. Dr Gloom,
Well said Dr, (I'll have you for my GP any day!). If M.Ps. were buisiness-like, then parliament wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

What a bunch,indeed!

jimlagos - I totally agree with your sentiments.

Interestingly when Mugabe was stopped by a reporter (ITN I think) at the African summit, he was asked:-

"under what authority do you claim to be president of Zimbabwe".

to which he replied
"under the same authority as Gordon Brown claims to be Prime minister"

Which is worse, the devil you can see - or the devil you can't?

If I said the following:

Detention without trial
Police shooting innocent people dead on the streets.
A state which takes backhanders from powerful business men in return for national honours.
A state where those in power have helped themselves through (near illegal) means to vast amounts of public money
A state where public contracts are drawn up with 'friends' of the government
A state that wastes public money on pointless and useless projects while paying it's public sector workers less and less thereby degrading the service until it becomes useless.
A state where children are killing each other on the streets of the capital.


Think I'm talking about Zimbabwe - wrong - all of these have, or are going to happen in BRITAIN.

This is happening because MPs now something that is true. Most people (or sheeple as one high ranking MP that I know says) or rather pathetic and show deference to the political elite.

My grandfather was a politician. He always said that the biggest mistake the electorate makes is showing politicians respect and not forcing them into corners all the time. That under no circumstances should we the electorate let them do what they want ever.

My aunty, another former politician, backed this up with the observation that politics is the "lazy drinking-man's game".

I know 2 MPs. Both would struggle in the real world, certainly they are no more capable than junior management/senior supervisory and one is a junior minister.

Politicians are as a rule spineless, lacking in personal morals and duplicitous and in the main it's our fault - we accept a poor standard and don't creat a big enough stink nor insist on enough transparency and direct accountability.

Recalling the lady who cried "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!" I wish that as they are brainless, they could also finish up headless.

I don't think Rousseau noted who was the great princess he was talking about, and it was written 3 years before Marie-Antoinettes arrival in Paris so there seems to be no way of knowing the fate of the speaker, unless we assume origin of your statement was Marie-Th茅r猫se who died of (probably) cancer. The speaker aside, the statement seems to refer to a french law of the time restricting prices of cakes and pastries when bread was unavailable - basically if they had no bread to sell, a law could be enforced to sell cakes and pastries at the same price that the bread would normally be sold at. The statement thus would be read as a complaint about an existing law not be enforced, rather than a complete disconnect from the speaker to the needs of the common man.

doctor-gloom.

Absolutely correct - I believe MP's should work for NOTHING.

That's right - nothing, not a penny, not a bean.

If they don't like that then I will take their place.

Why? - because I feel the job you do for your country holds great honour and the rewards are not financial.

Most MP's don't need the salary - Ken Clarke sits on the board of BAT for god's sake.

I will stake my claim - I will work as an MP for nothing more than the feeling that I am doing a good thing for my country and society - that's the real reward.

Anyone prepared to join me?

skynine.

I employ people in the "real busines world" - and I wouldn't employ any of them.

Most MP's are doing the job because they do not have the skills to do anything else.

If MP's had any intelligence then they would have worked out that when someone asks a question, you should answer it as directly as possible.

I saw David Davis on question time a couple of weeks ago demonstrating what ALL MP's practice - avoiding the question.

I can never understand this - it doesn't look good, it doesn't look honest and it's a complete waste of time.

Do MP's think that the public can't handle bad news and reality?

It's not us who has that problem - we face reality everyday.

With a large amount of MP's work being replicated in the devolved parliaments and europe is it not time for an overhaul of the Houses of parliament.

I suggest 500 Mp's on 拢150,000 a year 35 hours a week and 6 weeks holiday.

No expenses and they find their own pension fund,they can live where they want and employ who they want.

Now how can we get this done: answer, we cant they have to vote it through......

Not much of a democracy really when you think about it.

The MPs claim they should be paid as much as if they were in the private sector, fine.

If they worked in the private sector, they would have to produce receipts for everything, they wouldn't travel first class and they wouldn't have all the benefits they receive now.

They certainly wouldn't be able to claim off a 'John Lewis List'

Sorry MPs, you all need to take a step back and think very carefully how this looks to the man in the street; and think whether it it's right or wrong given the current environment and the difficulties so many constituents are suffering.

And if you still want to vote yourself an increase, you don't deserve the honour of being in the House. If my MP votes for this, he won't get my vote - averyone else should do the same.

This is exactly why the people don't trust politicians. Very simple really.

My apologies to decent hardworking people who do get payed to sweep the streets. MPs are not fit to lick your boots.

It will be disgraceful if MP's vote for an inflation busting pay award. Their justification - an independent review suggested that??? Was it not an independent review that the government choose to ignore when setting the Police's pay award?? Although off at a tangent - one of the comodities driving inflation is fuel - a real costs that MP's don't need worry about as it is picked up within their expense package!

@ no. 6 who said 'if they give themselves a pay rise, there is precisely zero chance of this government being reelected'

The government's proposal is for a below-inflation rise. It is the opponents of the government's bill who are holding out for more.

This will be the classic struggle of "greed v conscience". The outcome will give a fascinating insight in how the politicians regard their committment to public service or, as we all suspect, they will stick their snouts further into the trough

Sorry - opening MPs up to 'PUBIC scutiny' in my last comment was a typo


Much as some of them made need it, I don't think we could inflict that horror on the poor public servant who would have to do the inspections.

I hope they're going to treat any pay rise like they do to other public sector workers?

No backdated pay or pay half now and half in 6 months time!

It's a bit of a red herring to worry about whether they will get paid even more or not. They are already vastly overpaid, considering that their job comes with absolutely zero performance requirements.

I'd prefer if there was less focus on their salary, and more focus on what they have to do to earn it.

MP's should be paid at the same rate as the lowest paid public sector workers, pro-rata'd to the additional hours they work + sensible expenses.

This way they know first hand how it is to live on a budget and we may start to get MP's who want to serve their country rather than those who just want the headlines and the money.

This is a good opportunity for Cameron, Brown or Clegg to seize the initiative.

I'm interested in any party that can tell me they are going to reform our democracy.

A good start would be to get better value for money from MP's i.e.

1. Do we need as many MP's now that we have regional parliaments and so much decided by Brussells?

2. Can more work be done outside Westminster? Do all MP's need second London homes if regional debating chambers can be video conferenced together with electronic voting?


OK - so these might be bad ideas - but given the public mood at the moment, a vote on MP's pay should be a catalyst for an inspiring politician to sketch out their vision for our democracy.

# 47

"This will be the classic struggle of "greed v conscience". "

No contest, then?

Nick,

Could I please add to my post at #14.

If the Bories vote against the motion but it is carried, there will be no hope of but a nominal nuLabour representation at the 2010 election in light of the recession past or present in 2010. The Bories will landslide the election. Cameron could kill nuLabour for years but has he and the Bories got the bottle also ?

Down there in cozy-corner, (south east England), do not underestimate the intense dislike of nuLabour here in their traditional working class areas.

If all parties MPs vote for the motion many will not survive in the 2010 election, and we will witness the voting growth of minority parties like UKIP, BNP, Respect and the Nationalists.

This vote could be big turning point, if not today, certainly in the next two years.

To be honest Nick, it doesn鈥檛 matter what system MP鈥檚 adopt for their pay and expenses, it will be;

i) Excessive
ii) Undeserved.
iii) Unjustifiable
iv) Abused

The only way for MP鈥檚 expenses to be trustworthy would be if the system were independently recommended, utterly transparent and ultimately, chosen by someone other than MP鈥檚. To quote the fictional President Henry Hayes, 鈥淣ever gonna happen.鈥�

In my dream world the following would be true.

1) MP鈥檚 pay rises to be linked to increases in the cost of living index applied to the Basic Old age Pension.
2) MP鈥檚 expenses to be limited to a minimum, and all possible items centrally purchased. i.e. Computers and other Office Equipment, Stationary and furniture. Staff (including Constituency staff,) to be employed by parliament and allocated randomly.
3) MP鈥檚 travel to be based on real costs, where the date, time and purpose of all journeys supplied, together with (when travelling by car,) mileage, are listed. When MP鈥檚 travel by train it should be Standard class only.

They should have to provide receipts for absolutely everything.

This may seem a bit harsh, but there are only 500 applicants for every job.

How about we pay them double to do half as much.

The savings would be enourmous.

Is the following the reason why the Tories keep their mouth shut when it comes to give us the maths as to how they will run a better economy, or giving the impression that our slowdaown is unique in the world! Just out Nick.
-----------------

STAGFLATION WORRIES

In the lead-up to the decision, economic data has taken a turn for the worse and German Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck has joined politicians from France and Spain in urging the ECB to have a care for growth.

European Union Monetary Affairs Commissioner Joaquin Almunia said that stagflation, a combination of low growth and high inflation, was an obvious risk to the European economy -- and one which would complicate ECB policy.

Updated purchasing managers' figures released on Thursday showed the euro zone services sector shrank faster than previously thought in June, in line with a fall in manufacturing activity in a similar survey.

Business and consumer confidence continues to weaken, although May retail sales data was better than expected, and money market tensions remain and European shares hit a three-year low on Thursday.

But inflation in the 15-nation region accelerated to a new high in June, oil prices hit a new record above $145 per barrel on Thursday and rising inflation expectations underline the ECB's fear of a damaging wage-price spiral.

With the above data in hand the ECB has increased interest rates.

Have a nice day Nick.

This just reinforces the view that MPs are more interested in getting their snouts in the trough than doing what is right for the country.

Faced with runaway inflation and calls for restraint in pay demands, it will be a disgrace if MPs vote for this unjustified pay rise.

It seems Labour MPs are no longer bothered what people think. They know they are on the way out, so they might as well grab what they can.

Labour is now pursuing a policy of scorched earth - leaving as much devastation as possible for the next government. History repeating itself!

The perception is that most MPs are just 'lobby fodder' who sit around all day, voting as they are told to by the whips.

MPs would have much more sympathy if they were prepared to stand up for their principles. The 42 days legislation and ratification of Lisbon Treaty are two examples where MPs put their own personal career interests before the interests of this country.

Rather than rewarding ineffective and spineless MPs, perhaps they should be given a pay cut. Then they might have a better idea what it's like to live in the real world.

#57

I don't remember you printing out the statements from the ECB during the 'NICE' decade which would have shown that low inflation was a global phenomenon and nothing to do with Prudence Brown.

Perhaps you could find one for us and come up with how exactly Prudence did bring about the economic no more boom and bust miracle that now disintegrates around us?

@#57

Onlywayup

Unfortunately your last paragraph about the ECB shows also their astonishing lack of vision. Pushing up EUROZone interest rates devalues the dollar further which will fuel oil price rises and consequentally food prices and therefore inflation. The law of unintended consequences.

Even if i grant you that the UK economies woes arent all of Gordie Broons fault, the fact that he failed to put some aside in the boom to cover the bust he decreed would never happen is entirely laid at the door of Number 10, The man far from being prudent is a nincompoop of the highest order.

MPs have voted against giving themselves an above-inflation pay rise, in line with Prime Minister Gordon Brown's calls for restraint.

Mr Brown had urged them to vote for a below-inflation rise as an example to public sector workers.

MPs rejected two amendments which would have given them annual pay rises of up to 4.4%.

They also rejected a 拢650-a-year "catch up" payment, backed by an independent review, but opposed by ministers.

Your sources are not providing you with the correct info. Nick.

Mr Brown earlier said he hoped MPs would "recognise" key worker pay awards had been about 2.3%, 2.4% and 2.5%.

Don't be diverted from the real expenses by the 成人论坛's attention to the personal ones.

The real expenses equate to well over 拢150,000 a year, not counting pensions or various other expenses/costs.

The way it works is that "expenses" are split into various categories, some of them not even being classed as expenses; the one under scrutiny by the 成人论坛 is pretty much the smallest one; the ones that the 成人论坛 are not talking about are what people should be focussing on, because they're by far the biggest.

The personal expenses is just a tiny top-up; the real money comes from their "office" expenses kitty and various other perks that nobody on the 成人论坛 mentions.

The true set of perks/pay is actually worth over half a million a year if you're a labour MP who knows how to play the game, and that's just for a basic MP without a ministerial role.

#61 Pot_kettle

He didn't need to put any money aside;

"no more boom and bust"

remember?

;o)

Pot_Kettle@ 61.

Germany has plenty set aside, but will NOT inject into the economy for fear that this would increase the rate of inflation which is COMING FROM ABROAD.

One minute it鈥檚 just the UK, and now you assume that NO ONE in the world has anything put aside, but amazingly enough if the Tories were in power we would have something to spare.

What would you suggest the Government would do with it, cause no one dares to inject into the economy, on the contrary interest rates are actually going up and tax on fuel is not going down.

Come on Mr. expert, tell us what you would do! Don't repeat Cameron's sound bites, cause that's all they are sound bites.

The Tories do not have lack of vision you say. So why is Cameron now saying that he would NOT be cutting taxes cause the world economy does not permit it.

Why don't you admit that if the Tories were in power, they would make a big mess of the economy, same as they did when last in power, and let me say this again maybe you keep it in your head.

When the Tories were last in office, THE WORLD NEVER HAD THE PRESENT ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS. That鈥檚 when one of my parents had to go abroad for an operation, because there was a waiting list of 3 years in the NHS, and private Hospitals were full.

Now fill yourself with cold water and stay away from the fire.

Nick,

Brown has won the day, shit, I was hoping for an election and his demise.

It would be very intersting to learn what the nuLabour Whips were flogging.

'You will be appropriately rewarded' ???

#52 jonathan_cook asks if we need as many MPs now that we have regional parliaments.

Unfortunately in England we DON'T have a regional parliament! However, he makes a very good point.

Do we need so many Scottish MPs (if any) at Westminster now that Scottish decisions are made at Holyrood?

It seems a waste of money to employ Scottish MPs who can't actually vote on Scottish affairs - because those decisions are made by MSPs.

Yet, Scottish MPs can still vote on purely English matters, although they don't represent any voters south of the border.

Another fine mess....

Re: #29 Ch21ss

I stand corrected, there is confusion about the origins of this statement. You are correct quoting the bakery laws, which seem very fair. However, Marie Antoinette was executed by guillotine in 1793 for treason, and did not die from cancer.

mps make mega mega decisions so do nurses firemen and policemen are we paying by responsibility. then they will be at the bottom of a very high ladder.
they have done it again when will we relise that these mps are feathering there nest as they may well fall out the tree at the next election. can we wait or is it time to protest on mass.
list the mps who voted for this then we can see who must go at the next election.

Sir,
I note with deep disgust the recent self serving vote by MPs to retain their self appointed right to a system wihich has shown itself to be riddled with corrupt practices across all parties, at all levels.
I am no legal expert but note that the following section of the 2006 Fraud Act, could be considered to cover the recent actions of MPS;

4 Fraud by abuse of position

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he-

(a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,
(b) dishonestly abuses that position, and
(c) intends, by means of the abuse of that position-
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2) A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.


Are we truly in a 'Mugabe like' parliamentary system whose tag line should be the following?

British Citizens Burn While MPs Fiddle!

Yours sincerely,
John L Bell

Hey! isn't exciting trudie now we know that all these clowns on here hate everybody not just labour and yet they say their going to vot Labour out, so their going to vote for all these MPs they aparently despise, now we have had our suspicions confirmed, their a bunch of hypocrites.

are allowances taxed at the same rate as income?
when an m.p purchases an item for their second home who pays the v.a.t?
the people they represent are struggling to make ends meet, when will that be debated.
is this another failure of leadership?

I have no problem with MP's buying things with our money - just so long as they give them back to us in the condition that they bought them when they stop being an MP. Similarly, any property bought with our money really belongs to the taxpayer, and we should benefit from any increase in value of any property that we have helped buy.

Wouldn't it be simpler if there was a modest 3 bedroom house in each constituency available for every MP, furnished (to a reasonable standard) and owned by the taxpayer. Similarly, there could be studio flats provided in London for every MP - again furnshed and owned by the tax payer.
None of the accommodation need be in expensive areas - the properties should be as cheap as possible in order to keep the costs down. To minimise expenses, each MP would have a fully repairing lease on both properties. If an MP didn't like the property they were provided with, they could live elsewhere at their own cost. 2 MP's married to each other might need to be treated differently - but as there aren't that many of them, I am sure they could be catered for without too much trouble.

Back @#65

Seems I hit an open wound the way you have squealed.

I wasn't quoting DC soundbites. It is the world renowned left leaning 成人论坛 that have said increasing interest rates in teh EUROzone creates inflation by weakening the Dollar increasing oil prices and by default food prices.

You sir appear to advocatecuring inflation by creating more inflation.
Were you the one on the bridge of the Titantic when told about Icebergs in the area decided to light the last two boilers and increase speed.

I said nothing about tax cuts, I said nothing about pumping money into the economy. what I did say was that the government should have set money aside so that they could afford to pay their own bills instead of needing to borrow more themselves at higher inerest rates incuring either more national debt or requiring a tax rise.

Now I shall stoop to your level. Fill yourself sir with ethanol and move closer to the fire

In case my last post gets bounced.

@Onlywayup

Will we see you in the Heroes to Zeros thread defending your beloved Labour MP's that voted to keep Opaque Expenses instead of doing what everyone else in the country does and having them open to proper scrutiny.

14.
Yes GB has stated his opposition to over inflation wage increases for MP's. No-one is listening to him. Sound familiar? (and that's the leader) Gordon Clown says he listens to the voters, I wish he'd phone me (six in the morning or whenever) I have no idea who he thinks he is listening to, or where he finds his contributers. I have never had any time for the man, as MP, Chancellor and now PM. As a Scot I am embarrassed by him, he is so out of touch as to be positively useless. His constituents in "Inverqueerthing" need their collective heads searched. This man is a liability who would not last six months in any real job, requiring any integrity, experience or achievement. We should not kid ourselves, MP's have no idea how to manage. Yet we vote for them to run our country and our lives. The only reason any collection of MP's gets voted in is because the last collection failed miserably and upset all the voters. None of them have much of a clue. None of them are worth their wage, but what are the options? Why don't we run our parliament like a business, train the managers, measure their achievements against set objectives, reward success and work the dross to the bottom where it can be riddled out? Why, because it would be too easy to find them out and deal with it. Can you imagine Sir Alan Sugar (or any of his peers) allowing the percentage failure againsts tasks in his empire? Not a chance!

onlysensible.

I said exactly the same as you have done. I think a constituency home is a really good idea. Then, whichever MP is voted in can live there, tax free, but only while he is MP for that area. No money would change hands and there would be no mortgage expense to be claimed, as we, the taxpayer, would own the property. MP's would be free to own and finance their first homes out of their own pockets - like the rest of us have to do.

I also think that there should be a hotel in London purely for MP's, which is also owned by the taxpayer. MP's could just book in for the night and no money would change hands, and again, no expense claimed. Win, win, as far as I can see.

I am really astonished at how we, the taxpayers, do absolutely nothing to stop these people( who are supposed to represent us) from ripping us all off, and the less we do about it, the more of our hard-earned money they will be able to get away with.

The majority of people in this country work very hard and pay taxes, and we are all working much harder now than ever before to make ends meet. If the MP's vote themselves a pay rise, when other sectors are being advised against it, it will only confirm my belief that most MP's have no other regard for the job other than for their own ends, and I will seriously think about leaving the UK for good.

Why cant the government buy a number of flats equipped with similar furnishings and accessories and loan these to MPs while they are in office. The flats could have an inventory which could be checked and damage/losses made good when the MPs leave. Let companies compete for the contract to supply the inventory items. In the long rum this would save a great deal of money.

Here in the UK everybody has to work hard, pay taxes and take responsibility for themselves and their families. Discounting the genuinely ill or incapable, there are the "chavs" who are looked down upon by the rest of the population. They are especially loathed by the underpaid UK workers, who are worse off than these parasites who receive free social housing, free meals for their children, free everything in fact. The workers struggle to pay their way, and the "chavs" in turn think of them as stupid berks. The next class of parasites are those foreign terrrorists who cannot be returned to their native lands because of their "human rights". Many, such as "Hook Hand" Hamza receive large houses, and thousands in benefits. They manage to accrue huge savings and own property. The King Parasites are the MPs, they make the rules and play by them! Free homes, free TVs, you name it they have got it.

Surely some of the claims for expensives could be classed as grand theft on a massive scale , why?is nothing being done about it ?Ministers Ball and his wife are prime examples of this flagrant breach of this grand theft . like wise that odiuos couple the wintertons . who can save us from the corrupt members of the so called parliament i fear i we are doomed to borrow frasiers saying thank god i am coming to the end of my life , but i fear for my children ,and grandchildren

It is staggering that these MP's who voted for the status quo in respect to expenses do not feel it necessary to adhere to the rules generated at the Inland Revenue and recommended by the parliamentary committee like the rest of us have to.
I wish more commentors would ask them in public why they think they deserve special arrangements that others working in the business sectors cannot enjoy.
If we really lived in a truly open society,this anomoly could be sorted out rather quickly by publishing the details of the expenses of every MP to their constituencies and let the voters make their mind up whether they are behaving ethically or not.If the option is not then the voters can decide whether they want the incumbent MP to remain their MP at the next election.
This should focus the minds of the career politicians who voted against change.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

gavin.

It's not really that staggering when you think about it. These people made the rules by which they abide and it will take more than a "bit of public unrest" to shift them. They know which side their bread is buttered and they will cream as much out of the system as they can before they lose their seats, which inevitably, they will. Even GB will come out of it all smelling of roses. His gold-plated pension and many other benefits will keep him in an affluent state to which we would all love to become accustomed.

I wish I'd had someone like that on my side when I negotiated my contract of employment!