成人论坛

im not sure what went wrong, weather it was alot of our defenders were injured or they were all just rubbish.
Yes he's got us to the semi's of the carling cup but id rather be near the top of the championship anyday.
doesnt look like Billy Davis is coming back so i hope someone like Alan Curblishly to come in X)

You can never be 鈥渘ot be ready for the top flight鈥�. I think thats a rubbish phrase used by a lot of people. It is the same phrase 鈥渢his is not a good time to play the youths鈥�. So when exactly is a good time to play a young kid coming through the academy? When you have a 30 points lead at the top of the Championship?

At the end of the day Paul Jewell bottled it, just like Keane did at Sunderland. Derby are still suffering from the side effects after the battering they received last year by the big boys. They will not go down and probably finish mid table mediocrity, which isnt a bad thing considering the circumstances the club has been in for the past 12-15 months.

The managerial merry goes around once again.

Nottingham Forest is a complete different story. They got promoted by default because the authorities decided to punish Leeds heavily. They spent 3 million quid or so on Rob Earnshaw alone, which is more than Doncasters entire team cost and yet they are on par with each other. Colin Calderwood is not cut for the Championship and never was, and soon he will go back to the lower fizzy pop league with teams like Swindon or the likes where he can do a job.

Derbys future looks alright, they just need to get some stability and finish mid table ish and build for next season. Forest look a doomed.

What a turn up for the books it would be if Calderwood ended up at Derby and Jewell at Forest! It would certainly add spice to the local derby in March!! Not that those games need much spice adding to them...

And one more thing, Colin Calderwood was trying his hardest to drag the already damaged reputation of East Midlands football through the mud.

But there is still one team doing the region justice right now鈥� Leicester City.

Since when did the Leicester manager become our chairman?

Leicester doing the region justice? If you call being in contention for promotion from League 1 that, which considering all 3 clubs have spent a significant amount of time in the Premier League, I don't.

Here we go again changing manager - since Big Jim Smith was eased out in 2001 the following have managed Derby County - Colin Todd, John Gregory, George Burley, Phil Brown, Terry Westley, Billy Davies & Paul Jewell - 7 in 8 years !!

I know we say it every time but the next appointment has to be one that sticks - Arthur Cox was manager of the Rams for 10 years and Big Jim managed 6 - the pressure is on the board to make a sound decision now more than ever...

Ali_Don you are totally and utterly clueless. How is being in league 1 doing Leicester justice? This is a club that played more games at Wembley than any team except Manchester United in the 90's. You are obviously a City fan looking for an opportunity to attack your, historically, far more successful rivals.

I don't think Forest or Derby will go down. Both have the fan base, funds and prestige to attract quality managers.

However, I don't think Curbishley will end up at either club. He's a London man and could walk into most top flight jobs if he wanted to, why would he get into a Championship relegation dogfight?

I personally would love to see Stuart Pearce at Forest, with Nigel Clough coming in as his assistant. That'd certainly make the fans happy! It does seem like a bit of a long shot though, both are currently happy and enjoying relative success in their current posts.

Maybe Sean O'Driscoll or Brian Laws are more realistic candidates.

At last, Jewell has gone. The board need to take a close look at the errors they have made over the past 18 months. Bring back Billy.

Just a couple of points. Firstly Paul, Derby's chairman is Adam Pearson not Nigel Pearson, he's the Leicester manager.
Ali_Don, Forest spent 2.6 million on Earnshaw and he's been injured most of the time but showed what he can do on Saturday eh?
And Leicester might be doing well at the moment but lets face it they're in League 1, having been there for the past 3 seasons I can tell you the level is poor and you should be running away with it.
As for Jewell it was probably the right thing to do, he's assembled a massive squad and half of the players aren't even getting near the first team. They wasted a lot of money (wages included) last January to salvage some pride, that failed. They've brought in a lot of average Championship players this term and things just haven't worked out.
Forest, on the other hand, have been inconsistent this season and with a squad whose average age is about 21 they need some experience. In terms of the manager, Davies would do nicely, although I'd be happy with any one of Keane, Clough, Ince, Laws or Ferguson.

I think Ali_Don was being Sarcastic? That's the only explanation I can think of!

Leicester doing justice ? What about going bankrupt and avoiding all that debt ? Really classy !!

Leeds fan in peace here.

It's yet another club paying for past over-achievements. It's clear Derby weren't ready for the Prem, their playing staff weren't ready for it and neither was the backroom. It's much the same situation as when we were beat in the Championship playoff final against Watford. No way were we ready to go straight back up, but of course I wouldn't have said no!

Derby's confidence took a massive battering during their season in the top flight, and a losing mentality is not an easy one to shake off. I know Jewell brought something like 21 players in, but they need longer than 4-5 months to gel. The fans' expectations were too high, Jewell needed a season or two of stability and not yo-yo-ing between divisions. Then the foundations would have been laid for an assault on promotion and survival.

I'd like to see Gary Mac get straight back in to management myself at either Derby or Forest, but don't see it happening.

Always remember that every time a manager is sacked or quits after only a short time with the club, it reflects on a poor decision of the board.

Although Hutchings must be happy - every time Jewell leaves he earns a few quid.

"Jewell, a man raised in a socialist household, with principles high on the agenda, resigned ...."

Thank goodness he wasn't an unprincipled Tory then, he would still have been there!

What sort of nonsense has Jewell's political afiliations ( and/or Paul Fletchers ) got to do with a football story?

No doubt next therefore we will find him on the 'Road To Wigan Pier?'. But haven't they already a manager?

Obviously not one of the 'capialist' clubs like Chelsea would suit his socialist principles.

Unless of course he would be redistributing their wealth?

Perhaps he will be looking at the Reds?

As a impartial party , i think Paul Jewell has done the right thing . At the start of the seaon i thought that Derby would be up there , but its just now worked out that way. The results have not been there , if they deserve to be put into the brackets of teams like reading and Brum who have Premier league players like Mcfadden , Doyle , Hunt Quedrue,Carsley, Rosenior is another question . For me the interesting is question is what is the stock of a manger like Paul Jewel , is this him Finshed as Premier Manger , does he wait for another chance in the championship which is such a hard league to get out of . He is a good manager , who could have taken a mid Prem job after the job he did at Wigan , but where does he future lay now . Is he to join the manger that have done a job in the prem then disappear

He should never have left Wigan a few years back. In my opinion he has gone right down he just doesn't seem the same person as he was back then.

Feel a bit sorry for Jewel and I think he made a mistake.
After last seasons traumas stabilisation of the club was the priority. There were signs of that happening although recent results havent been good.
Then he walks. Strange.
Who will replace him? no idea. There are no obvious candidates for a job no one saw coming available.
"Son of Clough" seems happy to try and get promotion with Burton.

A mistake. Whoever we get now will probably not have a proven record of success in the Championship similar to that of Paul Jewell. I was amazed we got him; I'm even more amazed that we've let him go.

I think either the Derby or Forest job would be a great appointment for Roy Keane. Both clubs are in a similar position to Sunderland when Keane joined, and would be good to see if Keane can do it again or whether the first time was just beginners luck.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Come on lads. You know what I meant. Leicester is the only club experiencing any kind of success on the pitch this season. No cheap gimmicks aimed at Forest at all. If anything, I wouldnt want them going down to this division. Its a hell hole, it really is.

What I find astonishing is that some people are going on about Keane joining either club. It is not a guarantee Keane will get a carbon copy success at Forest/Derby like he did with Sunderland. May I remind you all about a certain Iain Dowie who is currently unemployed? His did a great job at Crystal Palace but has failed everywhere else. Not saying Keane will go down the same route, but its just a reminder that getting him does not mean guaranteed success.

I dont quite think Curbs will drop down this low, but Paul Ince and even Ferguson Jr. would be a good choice.

As an impartial observer it looked inevitable - I hope the board tries all it can to get another Clough into the Derby hotseat - he's surely served his appprenticeship at Burton by now!
Talking of impartiality - something that doesn't apply to Paul Fletcher here (from the supposed neutral 成人论坛) when he talks about Jewell 'coming from a socialist household with principles high on the agenda.' As if you had to be a socialist to have principles - that's a total joke - the socialists I've known privately and in the public arena are some of the most unprincipled, selfish people I have ever met. If Jewell felt that strongly about socialism I wonder how much of his wealth he's redistributed to the poorer members of society?

I am a lifelong Derby fan and yet again I find the club is the author of it's own destruction.
Under Burley, the Rams played fast attacking football. Many signings were shrewd and of good value. Yet he was dismissed following a spat with "the Director of Football" . Clearly a D of F simply serves to undermine the manager's position and functions and this one was no exception. Burley never should have been released, the matter should have been resolved in the boardroom and success could have been built around him.
In Billy Davies, the board knew his temprement and dogged style and yet chose to make him the token fall guy for his own over-achievement. For me, either of those two should be given a chance forthwith.

I think in regards to Calderwood's sacking it was the right thing to do. I was a big fan of his but every fan has their breaking point and the 4-2 defeat to Doncaster was mine. However, I still think that throughout his 2-and-a-half years here, he did a great job and has left the squad in a good state. He has signed some great young players such as Cohen, Wilson and Joe Garner and developed a few from the academy, such as Lewis McGugan, Matt Thornhill and Brendan Moloney. In a few years time I think us Forest fans will be looking back and appreciating the job he did.

As for the new manager I'd love Curbishley to get the job and definitly would not be opposed to young Clough taking the reigns.

Jewell ruined it when he was exposed on the NOTW. "Ram-Pant" was the headline. Classic NOTW.

Isn't it simply the case that Paul Jewell's ability to spot talented players and mould and coach them into a team capable of playing good football is limited?

A couple of mitigating factors in his defence is the lack of serious money he had to rebuild, and being stuck with players he couldn't give away, let alone sell.

anyone who knows any of the derby players will be able to tell you how jewells management style stifled their creativity. richard branson got where he was by moulding and adapting his employees to bring out their ability... derby need the same, no-one wants to be bossed around and insulted (regardless of the ridiculous pay check you are picking up). just look how redknapp has brought out the best in some average players through enthusing those around him rather than domineering.

I was there yesterday, and a few called for his head, but the heavy majority (upwards of 80% in the East Stand and SE corner notably) started Paul Jewell's Black 'n' White army. The fans didn't have high expectations. It was a nightmare last year, and this year has been hard. We didn't expect to go straight back up, or even reach the play offs, just show improvement and some decent football, whic has been shown, albeit far too fleetingly. I wouldn't have sacked him, then again I ouldn't have stood in his way if he quit. And thus, he quit, so I wish him all the best and we must look forward.

Roberto Martinez anyone?

The failure of managers like Paul Jewell and Calderwood shows up one of the big problems that is facing football today in the England and lesser extent across the UK is training of managers and coaches.

I know people take the mickey out of MClaren for going to the dutch league to find a job but still think it would be better for young English managers to try and find experience managing in the top flight say of Belgium or Holland than managing in the lower part of the championship or league 1 or 2.

The major problems in IMHO is that English managers are not outward looking enough they don't take on board enough practices from other leagues and nations.

In such look at the failure of English managers in the modern game.

I given only hope that managers like Brown at Hull are given a chance at a so called bigger club (no disrespect to hull there intended) in the future.

The developments in the game since the glory years of English managers like clough and revie (i know he was underhand and hated alot but he won stuff) and bob Paisley has change the game and that it seems that English coaching education has not matched this.

I'm a massive Derby fan, and think it's ridiculous that some derby fans want Billy Davies back. Doesn't anyone remeber what he was like after he left us, he even admitted that he wished it had been preston that he had won the play-offs with and not Derby, he definitely can't come back.


If anyone was going to get the job it would be Paul Ince, even before Pearson appointed Jewell he said he wanted Ince as manager and now that he isn't at a club it should be perfect. I personally would like to see curbishley as manager, but as long as we improve i don't really care

jackal2071 and royalalbertdock - The point I'm making there is that Jewell has his principles, a creed by which he tries to live....The point is that he was raised to understand what is right and wrong according to a certain way of thinking.

So others haven't?

Many of us have our principles and have been raised to understand what is right and wrong without being Socialists.

I would have thought however that his creed and principles would have included seeing the job through or isn't that a socialist principle?

It's only half way through the season and when the going gets tough the tough...etc.

Sloppy journalism, then compounded. tsk. tsk. No Sub Eds at Nu Lab 成人论坛?

Oh please.

A man raised in a socialist household....


BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Jewell has proven time and again that he can not hack it mentally in football management.

When things are good he's fine, as soon as they turn bad he's off. A man of principle? If he had principles he would stay in the job and work his way out of trouble, he would be honest enough to admit that he doesnt have all the answers and ask for help and advice from others instead of shutting his eyes and walking away.

Principles? I dont think so. Would you call it principle if a player decided not to play anymore because the team were playing poorly? No it would rightly be lambasted by all and sundry and so should any manager who quits like this.


Stay away this time mate, get a job running a pub or something, you're not cut out for football management that's for sure.

"I guess it would have to be said that Leicester are the only team in the region enjoying the current season, regardless of the division they are currently in - though Burton fans might not agree with that."

Hmmmmm, isn't Burton in Staffordshire? Which I think is in the west midlands.......
Maybe Peterborough would count.

Perhaps Jewell will change his mind again, and say that he wants a break from football. Then no doubt there will be a few positions he will declare an interest in btween now and the end of the season.

If Hutchings gets the job at Derby I will eat my sleeve.

An honourable resignation...not many of them these days. That said, Rams fans can't have been happy with their team's lack of progress this season.

Billy Davies back to Derby...I doubt it. As a Preston fan I don't rate him...so he'll be perfect for those Donkey Lashers in Blackpool.

I'm sorry for Jewell. He really tried, and I was convinced he'd do well, but when you looked at the squad Davies took into the Prem you feared for them. I couldn't quite understand the sense of hoping - it could only have been hope - that Darren Moore and Steve Howard would cut it at the top level. Under Burley we played Premiership style football at times - balls to feet, pass and move; under Davies we played no-nonsense play-the percentages Championship football. Watching Dean Leacock against Didier Drogba was embarrassing.

Jewell was strapped down by Davies's limited squad, but the players he signed in January sent alarm bells ringing. Lauren Robert for godsake! Not exactly the man you look to in a crisis. But this summer, with the likes of Commons, Albrechtsen and Hulse - reasonable Championship performers - I thought we might be ok. I didn't expect promotion - we'd been knocked to the canvas too many times to come back - but I thought we'd start to play winning football and at least be hard to beat. Our little run in October was a false dawn, and in my heart I knew it. We just don't have the cohesiveness or the belief that teams need at this level. You need a couple of players who are star perfomers to give everyone else a bit of belief. Under Davies we had solidity in Moore, Howard and Bywater and bright sparks like Lupoli and David Jones to give the fans a lift. Birmingham, Wolves and Reading have those players. Kevin Doyle and Stephen Hunt, for example, are Premiership players who could easily play for top 6 clubs. Wolves are doing well because they've kept their best performers for several seasons and the directors have kept faith with McCarthy despite several disappointing seasons. They're being rewarded for their belief in a manager who is honest, bright and hard-working. Had Jewell stayed, we might have got there too. Now we have to start all over again, and I wouldn't be surprised if we go down. If we keep Man Utd to less than a six goal deficit I'll be amazed.

So what now? Whoever we get has a nightmare task. Ince (thank god) and Keane (sadly) won't even consider it. Curbishley won't take it because it's too risky. Nigel Clough would be mad to leave Burton, and won't. I'd love to see Glenn Hoddle get us playing football again but I'm probably the only one. Dowie would be a good choice, or maybe we can lure Owen Coyle as we did Davies, with the prospect of 30,000 every other week. It's a good job if you can survive the next few months. Hutchings didn't look like he wanted it in his interview so we'll probably end up with Geraint Williams.

I don't like this current trend of managers quitting, giving up, saying they've taken a club as far as they can. why are people in professional sport giving up? it doesn't make sence to me, managers and players should be battlers, fighters and winners not quitters. if i was a chairman i wouldn't want to hire someone who gave up on their last job.

Not keen on Dowie, not after he sabotaged all the good work done by Curbishley at Charlton.

Derby is a challenging job. Perhaps too daunting for the likes of Paul Trollope with Lennie Lawrence alongside him?

Before he went to Leeds, I mentioned Grayson. Everybody's seeking a good manager, esp one who can operate under restrictions which is even more vital in these economic times.

We went after Bodde in the summer, maybe we should now go after Martinez, the Swansea manager.

Whoever we go for should be a manager who is a good communicator rather than an abrasive personality who can alienate his dressing-room. We need more a George Burley figure than a combative personality.

Colin Calderwood deswerved the sack, Forest were lucky to win promotion and were always likely to have the season they are enjoying just now.

I am not remotely sad for the guy either. When the minute silences for Phil O'Donnell were taking place last year, the only manager to comment about this not being relevant to English football and found it inappropriate was Calerwood, a Scot!!!!

Every other club was more than happy to have the minute silence or at least didn't comment if they found it irrelevant to their own game.

The guy is an embarrasment and I pity any club that appoints the guy as their manager

I think the stres of being a manager is too much for some personalities. Roy Keane left Sunderland due to his inhability to accept failure and stress has now twice got the better of Jewell twice. Now questions of his own temperament and ability to withstand the pressures off management are invetitable.
Also will somebody other than Blackburn actually sign one of the four or five available managers with expierence of succeeding at the levels of jobs they are applying for. Too many reserve team coachs and rookies have been appionted in the past months.

As a totally impartial and distant observer it would appear Derby are like or similar to Leeds and Newcastle, in the sense that "the board" believe they have a right to success (based on past glories) and just hire and fire managers at will. Nothing good ever comes of this policy, yet no-one seems to learn.
Jewell is just another less than average manager and doubtless the board will hire someone similar.

I like Jewell a lot but I thought he did an abysmal job with Derby.

Davies before him was doing a very good job, best he could with the resources.

Jewell came in and spent the next six months telling an honest and talented (at championship level) group of players that they were, basically, absolutely terrible and totally worthless.

He made his own job impossible. Man management isn't the be all and end all, neither should a manager blindly ignore all failings, but clearly maintaining confidence and fighting spirit are two huge parts of the job.

How can anyone feel confident or fight for a boss who is constantly telling the world how hopelessly inadequate you are?

The shattering of that confidence carried over into this season, and clearly wasn't helped by a completely unnecessary squad re-build. Davies side was fine for championship level, maintaining confidence, taking relegation on the chin and using the money to build on solid foundations is a tried and tested method that has seen the likes of Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham and more develop into, at least, very solid clubs in comparison to where they were a few years ago.

Jewell threw all that out of the window and these are the inevitable consequences. I feel hugely sorry for Derby fans as promotion has taken them backwards...actually no mean feat for Jewell to have achieved.

I can't help but think that had they stuck with Davies in the first place they would now be sitting pretty very near the top of the championship with a much developed squad, already looking ahead to the premiership challenge, one they would be so much better equipped to cope with.

Good luck anyway Derby and fans, I wish you all the best as your club and supporters, in my view, are well worthy of respect.

A lot of very interesting view points here, but personally I was severely disappointed by Jewell's reaction. He had a nightmare season last year, but came out the other side of it very optimistic- so I don't understand what has caused him to say this is "as far as he can can take the club"!

Like everyone has said, Jewell has got a decent record with Bradford and Wigan, and thats why I was over the moon when he was appointed. But the way he handled the January transfer window last season, and now this decision to leave, his time at Derby is very much a stain on the record if you ask me. He's taken the club nowhere in over a year.

But, what's done is done, and as a fan, I'm more interested to see what happens next. Post number 7 said "Derby and Forest have too big a fan base and too much prestige to go down"- I point you to Leeds and Leicester and Forest themselves last year!! The threat of relegation is very real, so the next appointment will make or break the next few years at Derby.

Roy Keane would be fun, but is an unrealistic target at the moment I think. Curbishley would sort us out I reckon, but would he be interested? Dowie is a certain no!! Maybe Paul Ince could do a job after not making a mark on the Premiership. And hopefully Nigel Clough will stay and take Burton to League 2, everyone would like to see that I think!

Regardless of who the board decides is the man for the job, lets just hope that Derby don't lose the best thing about the club- the fans. 25,000 attendances at least after the past couple of years we've had?! Outstanding.

Just in time to become Charlton's manager and save us from relagation.

Ahhhh

Oh well nice thought anyway...

Bring back Billy Davies!!! Failing that, Alan Curbishley, or if Burton DO NOT make the Football League next season, Nigel Clough. I say if Burton DO NOT because if they do make it, Cloughie managing them further would only seem fair!

Was never a big fan of Jewell. I'll admit it, some of his signings seemed to be working, in the form of Albrechtsen, Villa and Hulse. However, you could always sense that he never had trust instilled with ALL the players - they had no zest and didn't seem to want to put the effort in for him.

I suppose he tried his hardest, and wish him luck in the future.

Come on Chris Hutchings............for now!

clough will not be derby manager

he likes the cushy job at burton too much, his family mean more to him than success so fair play to him

my money is on ince who the owners wanted in the first place

Judas Jewel, the man who is reported to have commented that he couldn't understand how anyone on Merseyside could support anyone except the pompus kopites. Perhaps on the day when one of their 'stars' is banged up in a police cell reminiscent of past violent episodes involving the most arrogant association in professional football it should come as no surprise.

Still there鈥檚 always his past achievements to admire him for (Bradford 鈥� resigned before they were relegated, Shef Wed 鈥� resigned before he was sacked, Wigan 鈥� resigned after only avoiding relegation due to the Tevez affair at West Ham). That he joined Derby half way through last season and immediately gave up on the campaign whilst telling all who would listen that the playing staff were no hopers tells you everything about the man.

Welcome to the credit crunch Jewel - it couldn't have happened to anyone more deserving.

"The pain we are suffering now, I will repay next season with promotion."

should have read

"The pain we are suffering now, I will repay next season with another relegation."

Be thankful rams that you got rid of him!

Principles and honesty, man of his word, integrity. Paul Jewell to be admired for his spirit and background yes he's a great sportsman, he loves the game. Martin O'Neil has strong beliefs also, he studies Criminology as a hobby having sat in on the trial of Fred West the murderer, a study of the mind, of manifestations and abuse, of lies and deceit. His assistant is in the REFS dressing room at half time leaning on the Ref, asking him questions, influencing him, who really knows the truth about what was said ? Paul Jewell would be opposed to workmanship like that, we need more like him in the game.

There are many good bosses out there at the moment for both teams, Billy Davies, Alan Curbs, Alan Pardew, Roy Keane, Iain Dowie, to me all managers that both teams can learn from. Derby did well under Billy and i dont think he weas given the right money especially as we all knew we went up to the big league too early. I think any Derby fan would welcome Billy Back.
As for the reds down the road, potentially the squad is there just look at your result on saturday against Norwich who are a good outfit on their day. Just need the right manager and personally i know Dowie has been linked but i think he could do a job for you.
Although the rest of the season looks bleak at the moment i can still see both teams surviving and finishing mid table, leicester will come up and we will all be fighting for points against eachother next year.
Good luck to all the regions teams but especially The Rams!!!

Personally i don't care much for Derby County football club but i am a football man. I say to all connected to Derby FC. Don't worry it could still be ok. Last season at the halfway stage Watford were one of the top teams and Hull City and Preston were among the basement teams. Just look where they are now. As a Leicester man though i know only too well that a change of manager is not always a good thing to deal with. I do think though, there is no reason why Derby County cannot go on and achieve what Paul set out to do.

Personally, I think it would be brilliant if the likes of our Mark Arthur did the decent thing and resign, he and Nigel Doughty are the individuals bringing the likes of Colin to our club, yet they seem to be completely unaccountable. How can this be fair?
Despite being a Forest fan, I don't think Jewell is that bad a manager but as Paul F I feel correctly states in this blog, he'd be better at medium-sized clubs that are very much work-in-progress rather than clubs such as Derby with their fan-base, history and associated weight of expectation. Likewise Colin Calderwood.

Jacobite 3269 where are you from? I can understand your passion for your football club, but Paul Jewell only ever said exactly how things are! And the thing about a certain individual being "banged up" is mere media rubbish, we don't know yet what happened and the individual you seem so quick to judge, was only reported to have been arrested, that does not mean "banged up" and i also feel he probably wasn't involved to the extent the media would have you believe.
Back to the point of Paul Jewell, you seem to criticise everything the man has achieved, could it be you are maybe just a blinkered Derby man and are not too informed on the realities in football. For me Paul leaves with his integrity intact, believe me he has made this decision in the best interests of your club.

Why is it that midland clubs in general ( Aston Villa the exception ) under perform? People talk of Derby, West Brom, Birmingham, Coventry and Leicester being big clubs but they dont compare to the North West and London clubs in performance. They should is my point but it's a mystery why they cant string 3 or 4 good seasons together and then push on to win the title. Maybe it's just my perception from 12000 miles away in NZ but it seems other areas of England do much better. I always see the odd Birmingham, Derby, West Brom etc shirt about so the clubs have big fan bases around the world, they just dont seem to be able to translate it into something like the big four clubs have or even what many of the premiership clubs have. Why aren't most of these midland clubs in the premiership?

In response to Comment #57 by taieri50 (kia ora) the reason Midlands clubs are not regularly succesful is down to one one word - unfashionable. For as long as I can remember the Midlands has always been viewed as a grimy industrial area with nothing much to offer the rest of the country, despite having the country's second largest city.

Most of the London-centric media look down on the Midlands like it is a bad smell beneath their nostrils even though it has achieved, collectively, success in all major competitions; for example Villa and Forest (twice) have won the European Cup in recent memory, Villa, Derby, Cov and the Baggies have won the FA Cup, Forest, Leicester and Villa (5 times) have won the League Cup and Forest, Villa, Derby are top-flight League winners (oh and the small point of Villa being one of the founder members of the Football League).

There are more Midlands teams that have had other successes, apologies to those I have missed out, but my point is that despite all of these successes the perception is that only London clubs get exposure/support from the media, and its really only the northwestern clubs (Liv, Man U) that have benefitted from deserved spells of continued success since the 60s/70s.

This lack of exposure therefore does not translate into people supporting the local team, thus the fan base and subsequent income streams do not contribute to the growth of the club. And the perception of an unfashionable club will deter potential "big" players from coming to these clubs even though, as I have pointed out, they are just as succesful (if not more so) than any other club (London or otherwise). So the continued success (eg Liv, Man U) cannot be maintained.

So if you see any Midlands teams popping up on the TV3 Sports Tonight or Dobbo's Plays of the Week then set your video, because you will have a true rarity!

Haera ra

What about O'Leary, i dont see him being mentioned. If not him it should be Roy Keane

What with all this talk of jewell bullying the players and not making them believe they are strong enough, you need someone who will instill belief and pride in the team.

I know it's a long shot, and probably not something he'd be interested in, but Terry Venables would be a great appointment.

Everyone always comments how he brings teams confidence, so you need a manager like that, as already commented, the team still struggles from the psychological battering it took in the premiership, the only way to do that is to go to basics and start over.

I thought Jewell buckled at Wigan, he clearly done a good job keeping them up, but to walk out on them on a job half finished isnt good and he's not been able to do any better since then has he?

By the looks of the Derby team you do have some good players, but you need stability now and some confidence to win the games, playing the percentages works in the championship, as Derby proved last time, but when your up there in the top league you need to adapt and do it quickly, or you tackle the problem first time round by playing football from the start. I guess it's up to the manager now on what he wants to do with what Jewell has left behind.

Managerless once again. It was almost inevitable but, during a time when we were doing ourselves justice in the cup and getting somewhere. Doesn't everyone like a good old cup run? If not your boring, and certainly not proper football fans. There's more to Jewell quitting than what we think, why would you quit in the sem-finals of the cup?
However, one thing Derby do need is a bit of stability, bring in a man with experience, someone who we can rely on to get us back where we belong. We know it's not going to happen over night but we need to keep hold our next manager for longer than a year. Hopefully, it won't be Chris Hutchings no offence to him but he isn't manager material, and it will be like appointing Jewell all over again. Bring in a man who has spirit, fighting spirit that is and a man who likes to get the ball down and play real football. Bring back those days of Eranio, Baiano and Wanchope.
To those who are talking about Nigel Clough don't be silly. He will not join us he'll be more concerned about getting Burton into the football league.
Up The Rams!

taieri50, you look at the "performances" of the north-west and London-based clubs and you'll see plenty of myths and under-performers. Everton have had the same manager for years but their football is too often workaday, and a club of their "size" has won nothing for years. Blackburn? Bolton? No, thanks. Manchester City have won precisely nothing for 32 years. Spurs have under-achieved for years and appointed and sacked far too many managers to create stability. West Ham have had owners who have treated the club as a plaything and now their finances are shaky. Chelsea always were quite successful but you give any good coach like Jose Mourinho untold wealth to buy any player he wants and you too could win two league titles (but not the European Cup). One could argue Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal already had the intrinsic and internal organic growth ability to sustain the level of performance (and trophy winning) they had always enjoyed - and even then these clubs have their detractors. The rest have had life in the Premier League, but precious little else, and that is not necessarily the best indicator of "performance".

And to post #58 I would add that West Bromwich Albion and Derby County were also founder members of the Football League.

Why is it that midland clubs in general ( Aston Villa the exception ) under perform? People talk of Derby, West Brom, Birmingham, Coventry and Leicester being big clubs but they dont compare to the North West and London clubs in performance. They should is my point but it's a mystery why they cant string 3 or 4 good seasons together and then push on to win the title. Maybe it's just my perception from 12000 miles away in NZ but it seems other areas of England do much better. I always see the odd Birmingham, Derby, West Brom etc shirt about so the clubs have big fan bases around the world, they just dont seem to be able to translate it into something like the big four clubs have or even what many of the premiership clubs have. Why aren't most of these midland clubs in the premiership?

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Simply put they do not underperform. They ae NOT big clubs. Big clubs are Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Villa, Everton and such. The rest are middling clubs that will find some sustained periods of success (meaning 5-10 years in the top flight) and some less. Look at the premiership and see the size of some of the clubs thee just struggling to remain in mid table. Compared to Derby, Leicester and WBA they are much bigger concerns. Forest do have a weight of history that if they could regin their premiership place would keep them there for a while and Birmingham should genuinely be a bigger club than it is but largely they are not big clubs.

You may see the odd Derby shirt in NZ, but remember that there are massive ex-pat and recent generation immigrants from the UK there. You see Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal shirts in every country around the world completely independent of these communities, THAT is an international fan base, not a few hundred people in Aukland.

And to think any of them could push for the title after 3 or 4 good seasons in ludicrous. The ONLY clubs to have come near to joining the big names in the last 20 years are Leeds (went bankrupt trying), Chelsea (spend hudreds of millions in the process), Blackburn (spend massive amount then faded away) and Newcastle (spent a vast amount over 3 seasons and failed anyway). Other than that it has been Everton, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea & Man U since 1980 (Villa's last title).

I'm not sure Man City and Spurs are big clubs anymore in the way Man Utd and Arsenal are. They get attendances in the 30,000s but that's all they do. I'm not sure either that "weight of history" will keep anyone in the Premier League. Nottingham Forest would have to attract good players (and pay big wages) and then win games, same as Wigan and everybody else. And I'm certainly not sure why Birmingham "should genuinely be a bigger club than it is" - that truly is a mystifying statement! I guess it's all about the difference between perception and reality.

I think who ever comes in for PJ has a massive task on there hands. The board wont release alot of money and who will you be able to sell to make big money.

When JP came into the squad i think the board made the decision on his run with Wigan, but if they looked more into it he was struggling with Wigan and he was terrible at Sheffield.

I hope that they look at a manager with ambition and is able to work on a shoe string budget examples of that would be Mark Mcghee, paul Lambert

I'm not sure Man City and Spurs are big clubs anymore in the way Man Utd and Arsenal are

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Of course not, but they are still big clubs, it's just that United and Arsenal are huge clubs.

I consider a big club not just necessarily by the number of fans or even money but by sustained results. Look at it as a checklist. If they can et 30,000 regularly at home, if they can afford to spend 拢5m plus on players with reasonable regularity (even if that means selling more than they buy) and if you look at them at the beginning of the season and think to yourself that they should have enough not to go down (or if they have then they should get promoted) then they fit the bill.

For me that means

The huge clubs - Arsenal, chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd

The big clubs - Villa, Everton, Man City, Spurs, Portsmouth (may be slipping), Blackburn (until this year anyway), Newcastle,

Borderline - Fulham, Bolton, West Ham, Middlesborough

Not big clubs (at moment) - Wigan, Hull, Sunderland, Stoke, WBA

Outside the premier league only Birmingham really have the potential to become a big club without some sort of change in circumstance, any other championship team would definately struggle to survive promotion (even Wolves)

What Derby need to do is start all over again. They need a manager who will play down the teams ambitions and rebuild a new squad. The fans need to realise they wont be promoted this season and probably not next season either. When Mick McCarthy took over Wolves he told the fans he will need 3 years to build a side good enough for the championship. He had 13 first team players on the book 3 of them being Goal keepers, he brought in enough players to get us through the first season and surprisingly achieved 5th place finish, the 2nd season there was more expectation and we missed out on the playoffs by 1 goal. Now in his 3rd season we are all seeing the benefits of sticking with the manager, we are top of the league, and many expect us to be promoted.

The new manager probably wont have a lot to spend especially in January, whoever it is needs to get rid of any player who isn鈥檛 willing to fight for Derby this season.

Someone has mentioned Glenn Hoddle, he would be a poor choice, he left Wolves because he couldn鈥檛 deal with not having any money and we drew nearly all of our games.

Someone like Nigel Adkins would be good but would cost, an unemployed manager like Aidy Bothrooyd or Steve Cotterill would be my choice.

Jewell never built any team spirit with the squad and that was evident with most of your performances this season. Plus his constant moaning about players not being good enough are referees costing him points.

Good Luck

Historically, except for largely Clough-inspired titles and European successes in the 1970s (up to 1980), East Midlands clubs have largely under-achieved.



Perhaps it's something in the water.

I think perhaps Derby can start putting behind a monstrously bad premiership campaign now. I don't know how Jewell managed to keep on watching his adopted Derby team capitulate week in week out. No matter how good you are consistently abject preformances pervades a club and is so difficult to move on from.

Clubs like Watford, Swindon, Barnsley, Bolton and WBA that looked relegation fodder have always had players that looked premiership class. Even the last Sunderland relegation squad had bravery and attempted to plough on regardless of a lack in quality personnel. Derby didn't even start with the energy of a promoted team that so many doomed newcomers have; like my Charlton team of 98-99. When I saw them in the flesh I was amazed at how solid prem pros like Andy Todd were of no influence. Of their ten outfield players only Tyrone Mears looked like he had prem quality. And we all know what happened to him; regardless one average prem full back will not keep you up.

I have never seen a worse premiership team than Derby, and I've seen some bad Charlton ones. Having seen Derby this season I do feel Jewell has woefully failed in assembling a reliable champ spine. On the other hand having seen Derby in the prem I always felt it was an impossible job to get them even into the play offs. The next manager may reap the benefits of some good players but he'll not be under huge pressure to get Derby automatic promotion. Will the finances afford another assault next season?

Hackerjack said.... "Outside the premier league only Birmingham really have the potential to become a big club without some sort of change in circumstance"

On what do you base that nonsense? What do you think Birmingham have that say Wolves, Reading, Derby or even Charlton haven't?

Before you say fan base may I just remind you of the average attendances so far this season...

1 Derby - 28,755

6 Charlton - 20,952

10 Birmingham - 18.982

PS... as for who will be the next Derby manager talk amongst some of the players before Christmas was that Jewell was on his way out and Ince (who was only prevented becoming Rams boss last time because Winkleman refused him permission to talk to Derby) is on his way in. Ince was Pearson's no1 target then, I can't see it being any different now.

Hackerjack said.... "Outside the premier league only Birmingham really have the potential to become a big club without some sort of change in circumstance"

On what do you base that nonsense? What do you think Birmingham have that say Wolves, Reading, Derby or even Charlton haven't?

Before you say fan base may I just remind you of the average attendances so far this season...

1 Derby - 28,755

6 Charlton - 20,952

10 Birmingham - 18.982

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I would not claim that there is much fo a difference is fan base between the teams at all.

The number of people who turn up each week alone is a very poor measure of a clubs size as that can easily fluctuate with a little success. It's not even a really good indication of a fan base as it only often reflects the local appeal of a club.

What the do have is simple, the name Birmingham.

Everyone in the UK and most in Europe know Birmingham as England's second city. A team with the name of a big city in it like that will find it much easier to market themselves, especially outside the UK.

That is why Briatore wants to rename QPR to include London in their title. While it is true that it hasn't matterred much in the past (see Everton, Arsenal, Juventus, Ajax) I believe it will be a big factor in the future. Clubs from small towns just feel small time, even when that is clearly wrong. Swansea City (I'm a Swans fan), even if they manage to consistently outperform Cardiff City will always be seen as the smaller club unless a huge gap opens up between the two.

Ask most people their opinions of which are bigger and better cities, Birmingham, Derby, Nottingham, Coventry or Wolverhampton and I expect most would go for Birmingham.

The world's changing, football too and I expect that in the not too distant future clubs will come to depend on fan bases not just local to the team but far wider spread around the country and even the world in times to come. At that point things like a name can make a huge difference.