The Glass Box for Monday
Once again, the bloggy thing is cripplingly slow. Attempts to post today have been frustrated and getting this Box posted has been tricky.
Anyhoo. The Glass Box is the place where you can comment on what you heard on PM, interact with other listeners and get responses from the people who make the programme.
Just click on the "comment" link.
The Glass Box is named after the booth outside the PM studio where we all discuss the programme at 18.00 every weeknight. We try to be honest and constructive. Sometimes there is criticism, and the criticised get a chance to explain themselves.
The people who make PM will read the comments posted, and will sometimes respond.
If you want to post a comment about something that is on your mind but was not on the programme - use the link on the right to The Furrowed Brow. Also on the right, you'll find FAQ: try it. And why not visit The Beach?
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What on earth is Robert Peston on ?
He sounds like he is late for his train.
Bizarre..
Remembering something in a Michael Moore book I once read about American pilots on internal flights being paid so little that they qualified for food vouchers, and he worried in case they were tired during their flying hours because they had to moonlight to pay the rent, I got a feeling of deja vu just now when listening to the 'fatigue is a problem' story!
Can't someone at the Beeb give Peston elocution lessons ? Or at least teach him to speak in whole sentences, and learn things like pace, diction and breathing at the end of sentences.
It is tiring just listening to him.
Today's cognitive dissonance:
Reading an e-mail from a friend discussing Saturday's Doctor Who at the same time as Eddie mentions "The Master, of Wellington College."
One little problem: unless the normally yabbity crew of froggers has fallen uncharacteristically silent, posts are taking a long time to get onto the site; nothing since 3.30 apart from this shiny new empty box? That seems somehow unlikely to me, especially since I happen to know that at least two posts have been accepted and 'held for approval'.
Meep?
i am a pilot and would not dare mention fategue. also whissle blowing is another thing never to do. they would just fail you at the next base check,
the caa ninimium is 12 hours a day for 7 days. at day 7 you are exausted. the caa regulations give you just 1 day off before they say you can do another 7!!!! after this they do relent and give you 2 off before another 7.
if that is not fategue causing i dont know what is
Could you please organise something for me - I will give you two options:
a) Arrange for Hugh Sykes to give some master classes to 成人论坛 journalists in how to research, formulate and present an item.
b) Have Hugh Sykes cloned and send 20 of him to various parts of the world to report for the 成人论坛.
Option b) is preferred.
Never mind the pilot fatigue (though that is scary enough) I was talking to a flying instructor at the weekend who mentioned (casually) nearly crashing into another plane "in uncontrolled airspace" near France. I couldn't believe my ears. "Uncontrolled"? I thought it was all controlled everywhere by air traffic control, & that someone somewhere, knew which planes were in the air & their whereabouts.
Apparently this is not the case & there is lots of uncontrolled airspace around, & with the growth of private planes, there are bound to be more accidents just waiting to happen.
Am I just naive - did everyone else know about this state of affairs?
good prog 2 night...remind me to walk everywhere from now on!
I just have to say that I am shocked when the interviewer this evening asked an NGO spokesperson about the advisability of saving the inhabitants of Gaza from starvation as some members of the international community consider Gaza to be a haven of terrorists. I presume the interviewer is not of this opinion and was asking this to elicit a response, but it is still shocking that anyone should so cold-bloodily discuss whether or not to collude in genocide and justify it by labelling an entire people as terrorists.
Lesley (10),
I also assume it was a rhetorical question, but I agree with you about collusion with collective punishment.
Salaam/Shalom
ed
Annasse @ 8
Yes...
DI Wyman-9
...trot-on...
Oh, Yes, RJD, Please - Option B. But (without wishing to appear greedy), could we increase the number of clones?
He is, without question, the most interesting and empathetic reporter on the 成人论坛.
Well done Chris Ghoti.. the same thoughts came to me, on hearing this item....but if Brown goes early does it really matter any more as neo-Liberalism seems to be the norm for the forseeable future... and the last 30 years - which is not good news for the majortiy of the Worlds population...As in essence as far as I am concerned: Aristotle was correct when he noted that when the Brutes take over society mankind is in deep trouble....
BVP
Charlie-13.
..now have trotts......PHARRRRRRPP
You all sound like your reviewing the situation from a place where the sun don't shine.
Re Tshirt.
What a mare!
Mare I be so bold as to say you'll be having a mare of a time!
just want to second or third or whatever RJD's suggestion about Hugh Sykes, undoubtedly one of the 成人论坛's best reporters, in fact I would say in a class of his own when it comes to getting the story about the real people over to listeners. Please someone give him an award, or nominate him for Betty to give an award to - although maybe he's too young for that yet. In any case let us celebrate him while he's still here to have the plaudits heaped upon him rather than waiting unitl he's gone and everyone says - 'that Hugh Sykes, he was a d*mn good reporter'.
Brian,
"when the Brutes take over society mankind is in deep trouble...."
Dow Jones and News Corp. were on the brink of agreeing to editorial protections for Dow Jones, an accord that could pave the way for the sale of the Wall Street Journal publisher.
xx
ed
Buying the ....
xx
ed
John (6);
With English spelling and grammar like that how did you ever pass the exams?
Must be the fatigue.....
The CAA also limits pilots to an absolute maximum of 900 hours per year. Given the same average 8-hour working day as the rest of the British workforce that's 112.5 working days per year, or about half what the rest of us are doing. So why are pilots so damned exhausted? Do they cane themselves with 15-hour days for two months without a day off then get the rest of the year off or something?
I take it on faith that this is a genuine problem, but can't understand why?
Lesley & Ed;
But when even a man like Alan Johnston isn't safe, who is there to give an unbiased view of life in Gaza, why should the NGO's put staff in there to do humanitarian relief work like feeding the hungry? How can their safety be guaranteed? If they are forced to withdraw, because of the violence, then collective suffering will be the result, but it won't be the NGO's fault.
BVP;
Who are the Brutes you refer to? Alright, Brown is a grim-faced, dour enigma to most of us, and a "great clunking fist", according to Blair, but a Brute?
And which system of government would you like to see replace our parliamentary democracy? If you despise liberal democracy there is always North Korea, Zimbabwe or Iran, if you fancy giving hereditary dictatorship, tribal dictatorship or an absolutist theocracy a try? Or China for a market-economy Communism (Huh?). As noted by Churchill "Democracy is the worst form of government which has ever been tried. Except for all the other kinds".
Or how about the aphorism that "Every country gets the Government it deserves". Or something like that.
Si.
Presumbaly the glass box was designed with the explicit purpose of persuading people from throwing things in such meetings when things must at times get heated
Hello All,
Roger the Editor here.
Thanks once again for all your comments.
I was quite pleased with the mix of stories on this programme. Tom Symonds鈥 long report on pilot fatigue was pretty thought provoking. I have to say that on the rare occasions I fly, I will be sitting there reading a book and suddenly the unwelcome thought will blast into my mind: THIS THING WEIGHS HUNDREDS OF TONS 鈥 WHAT IS IT DOING IN THE AIR FOR GOD鈥橲 SAKE? WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE.
Favourite story for me? The item on the 54 million dollar law suit over a pair of trousers, which elicited the information that in some US states, there is legislation to prevent discrimination against lawyers. I love that.
On the subject of Eddie鈥檚 question to the UN relief representative about some states not wanting to 鈥榝eed terrorists鈥欌 what you have to remember is that that is exactly what the situation is. Hamas is proscribed by, among others, the EU and the US. The reason so much aid was cut after the Hamas election victory was because of this very reason.
Toodle pip.
Off to get my bike serviced now ahead of the London to Canterbury on Sunday.
If you can get to London to watch the Tour de France on 7th and 8th July, it is going to be GREAT.
If you come to me and say 鈥淵our name is Kolley Kibber and I claim my free drink鈥, I鈥檒l buy you a beer. Maybe a glass of wine would be more apposite.
Roger Kibber
Hugh Sykes - fantatsic piece, great reporter.
Robert Peston - the presentation really isn't getting any better is it? The knowledge is obviously there but its not really being a good airing (as it were).
Re Robert Peston yesterday.
I laughed when he came out with "All people over 50 are grumpy" (I may have paraphrased that somewhat) when he was discussing the saga/AA business. I've got news for you, Robert. Some of us don't even have to get to 50 to get VERY ANNOYED INDEED about all sorts of things. I'm surprised you haven't been hauled over the coals already for that piece of ageist generalisation. I mean, can the 成人论坛 stand by and let you say something like that? Are they allowed?
Give yourself a few more years and you won't be sounding so cheerful on those business reports of yours...
Si,
Most of the violence in Gaza (in terms of flying lead and explosives) comes from the Israelis. The other trouble the NGOs are having is just getting the stuff in through the Israeli-controlled containment, and nothing better is proposed under the so-called roadmap to peace:
xx
ed
P.S. My affirmation of the praise for Hugh seems to have gone into limbo. as also my amazement that the poodle's impending new job is turning out not to be an elaborate practical joke, or at least the Today crowd still take it as a serious proposal....
Lesley 10
I don't think it was a rhetorical question-it certainly needed an answer. Maybe 'ironical'?
I can't believe EM would have phrased the question so contentiously other than to elicit a response on such an awful situation, as you suggest.
Mollyxx
Thanks for that Roger. I'll get you a beer (or your choice) should you turn up in Palnackie anytime, and particular thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of US/UK to those who might not have noticed that, yet again, we are far more part of the problem than the solution.
And we have the unmitigated gall to hope al Poodle can teach the Palestinians how to conform to the Israeli idea of 'good governance'!
BTW, I wonder how many folk know the 'roadmap' was actually an channelled through GWB & Co.
Peace/Salaam/Shalom
ed
Of course it's malicious! Whaddya expect from me?
Ed;
Um, no. At least not recently. All the flying stuff in Gaza has been about the internecine and very un-civil war between two Palestinian factions who loathe each other even more than they hate the Israelis. It's now resolved itself, in a way. Once Hamas have finished mopping up Fatah they will turn their attention back across the border and begin shelling Israel again.
The only interruption in this latest chapter was when Hamas slung a few rockets across the border, when it looked like Fatah were getting the upper hand. Naturally the Israelis responded and for a few days both factions had a thing going with the old enemy. Once that tailed away it was back to civil war again.
Worth noting that, despite your particular bias in these matters, on that occasion it WAS the Palestinians who initiated it, not Israel. In fact this often seems to be the case. The reason for any disparity is obvious, Israel has far easier access to a modern armaments industry and has more munitions to use. And they will not hold back when shelled.
And I'm well aware of the contents of that section of the roadmap, since this is at least the third time you've publicised it in recent days. Overdo it and you turn people off the message. Once is enough. We're all intelligent enough to get the gist first time around. If we weren't convinced on first reading then repetition won't do the job.
Si.
Most of the violence in Gaza comes from the Israel's. Ed the manner in which you distort the truth is breathtaking. I'm begining to suspect that you along with several others on the site are trolls.
Ruth;
That's not fair. Ed may hold opinions which are diametrically opposed to yours, but that doesn't make him a troll.
I have many disagreements with the man and his opinions, but I will absolutely defend his right to express them.
I also have noted that you have highly partisan views on this topic, which you have not held back from expressing. But no-one has named you as a troll.
I have many sympathies for the Israelis and their situation. I also have sympathies with the Palestinian plight. I think that there are measures of right and wrong on both sides. This is the source of my disagreements with Ed.
The profound disagreement between the opinions of Ed and yourself is the conflict in microcosm, and thankfully so far, has been conducted through discourse and disputation. If only the respective sides in the Middle East could conduct their problems in the same manner.
Do not try to suppress a genuinely held belief by allegations of Trolling. It does you no credit at all.
Si.
Ruth (31), I think you need to look again at the definition of a "troll". Ed is nothing of the sort. He has very well informed, passionately held views which he defends with reasoned arguments and never, ever with deliberate flaming. You may disagree with every single word he types, but it is most unfair of you to suggest that he writes with malice or insult or even inappropriately.
Ruth - I damn near choked on my toast! Of all the thing EdI is a troll he certainly isn't.
I often read the comments about the Israel/Palestine conflict but it is beyond my grasp/comprehension/understanding; however the views expressed by Ed, SiW, yourself and others all helps to broaden my knowledge. They also encourage me to believe that there are some good, intelligent people out there willing to debate these things even if that debate falls on deaf ears!
Anyone else noticed the "Give the Keys of 成人论坛 Radio 4 to Eddie Mair" group on Facebook?
Thanks Appy and Si.
Si, I re-posted the roadmap stuff for the benefit of anyone who doesn't exhaustively consume this multi-threaded froggery. Sorry if repetition dulls the message. It has certainly done so in my case for the 'we're the victims' chorus from the Zionist side.
I still think you'll find far more tonnage of debris in Gaza due to Israeli shelling than otherwise. Who blew up the power station? Who blew up the houses full of civilians, including children? Who has killed more than seven times as many children as have the Palestinians? Who has killed as many collateral bystanders as targets in their assassination campaigns? etc., etc. Check .
Distorting the truth? I think not.
Salaam/Shalom
ed
Hi 34,
Well now you'll choke on your lunch because I would have to add mysogynistic to my description.
I think it is only possible to gain some insight into the Palestinian/Isreal conflict if what is presented is a balanced account of why people have certain prejudices.
For example, in the 1930's the founder of the Baath party in Iraq actually based his party on Hitler's third reich and focused heavily on expansionism and anti-semitism. To this day this resonates within the Arab world hence the deeply anti-west anti-Jewish/Israeli sentiment which remains.
Hi 34,
Well now you'll choke on your lunch because I would have to add mysogynistic to my description.
I think it is only possible to gain some insight into the Palestinian/Isreal conflict if what is presented is a balanced account of why people have certain prejudices.
For example, in the 1930's the founder of the Baath party in Iraq actually based his party on Hitler's third reich and focused heavily on expansionism and anti-semitism. To this day this resonates within the Arab world hence the deeply anti-west anti-Jewish/Israeli sentiment which remains.
They're still taking the daft idea seriously!
Asked what job he would like to see Mr Blair in, Mr Schwarzenegger said he "would feel good" if Mr Blair did become a Mid-East envoy.
"He is without doubt a great, great diplomat and very, very knowledgeable about this."
But he also said "selfishly", he would like to see him as an "envoy for the environment", bringing "all of the countries together to join some kind of treaty".
"Maybe he can take on both of the challenges," Mr Schwarzenegger said.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6239542.stm
As to ,
it's an lod story.
xx
ed
Well, thank you, Ruth, for reminding me of something. A few frogs ago, Ed I, you suggested that a one-party state could have advantages. Was it the Ba'ath party you had in mind, or Zanu-PF?
As for the destruction in Gaza, I think you would find that there was more done by the bulldozers of the peace-loving Israelis than by their weapons.
Wrt the statement, that repetition dulls the message, I sympathise somewhat with Ed on that one. This frog is quite difficult to keep up with (sorry, this frog is one up with which it is difficult to keep) and I often arrive too late to post. I also miss large swathes and rarely fnd time to visit the beach or the Furrowed Brow.
I think the mailiciosa thing happens when many different people are posting (lunchtime) - an unsophisticated program.
PUSH!
I look with interest on suggestions that Ed I might be a troll.
A troll is someone who only appears in order to attack people contentiously on one particular subject, and bangs on about that one thing, often repeating itself, and being gratuitously unpleasant (using offensive personal descriptions, for instance) about individuals on the newsgroup it has decided to infest and with whose views it doeesn't happen to agree. It contributes nothing to any thread on any other subject, and really isn't very interesting or informative even on its chosen subject. In essence the troll is a parasitic growth not unlike a monstrous carbuncle (which is defined as a bloody nuisance on the face of a group).
One other standard behaviour pattern of the troll as a species is that it generally accuses those it attacks of precisely the characteristics it is itself most likely to display. Often it uses long words like 'mysogynistic' or 'vituperative' to lend a spurious air of validity to its otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
I'm sorry, that's not Ed, whose contributions cover a wide range of subjects in many areas of interest. However, I could certainly suggest a candidate for the title 'Troll of the Month', whose posts are consistent with the definition I give above...
Chris. Yes, spot on. The fact that you described me as an 'ASS' because you did not agree with my view is a graphic illustration of the point I made.
Vyle, I simply suggested that a one-party system "might" be more democratic by not having to discard principles in favour of competitive 'marketing', and I had neither Zanu-PF nor Ba'ath in mind as examples. I would actually prefer a no-party system or a many-party system as noted in a link I durst not repeat ;-), but which might be found at my name above.
Witchiwoman, thanks for leaping to my defense xx.
And finally, Ruth, Chris didn't describe you as one, except if self-inflicted:
"do you have any idea how much harm you do to your cause by making such an ass of yourself?"
Salaam/Shalom
ed
PUSH? Push!
Ones argument is diminished by attcking the other person rather than her/his argument. Apologies to most for stating the obvious, but I'm afraid there are some who do not seem to realise this.
Appy (46),
It's a difficult discipline, not striking back, but it comes with very strong credentials:
I fail often.
xx
ed
Ruth (38),
"To this day this [Ba'ath & Hitler] resonates within the Arab world hence the deeply anti-west anti-Jewish/Israeli sentiment which remains."
To this day resonates within the Arab world hence the deeply anti-west anti-Jewish/Israeli sentiment which remains.
Salaam/Shalom
ed
Ed (47), I'm sure you know that I was not referring to you. Your responses reinforces my point.
A, x.
Aperitif @ 46 wrote:
'One's argument is diminished by attacking the other person rather than her/his argument.'
Yes, sorry, you're right.
I did reply about this yesterday (Wednesday! the way things are going or not-going at the moment I'd better give the day), but that post seems to have vanished into the aether, and really all it amounted to was what is above, so I shall try again, and see whether this gets through.
Eeek, now you too Chris! No need to be sorry -- I was making a general observation, not having a go at individuals!!
A, x.
POOSH!