Red Green it is
So there we have it.
Red Green it is. After all the stop starting there's something rather appropriate about that ...
The office is awash with politicians. I've just walked in to find Mike German condemning Ieuan Wyn Jones and confirming he's written to Rhodri Morgan. It goes something like this: "I'd be grateful for an opportunity to discuss further developments ..." written by a man who must know the horse has bolted.
Will Rhodri Morgan speak to him at this point? Plaid seem to think not but let's find out. Rhodri Morgan and Ieuan Wyn Jones are meeting on the steps of the Senedd in 10 minutes to shake hands on the deal.
And who's looking very happy this morning? The Tories. I've pretty much seen the whole group and people like Angela Burns are beaming. All blue eyes on the next election.
Off to watch the handshake.
I'm Betsan Powys, ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on .
°ä´Ç³¾³¾±ð²Ô³Ù²õÌýÌý Post your comment
With the effective Welsh Conservative party as the 'official opposition' it looks like the coalition government will be in for a rough ride.
Yes blue eyes indeed , this is the end of Plaid Cymru The Party of Wales but then perhaps a natural conclusion if a Scots style senedd id delivered within 4 years. I guess that was the only point of Plaid in the first place. Lets hope for a quick death as a long drawn out 'dying fly' would be an insult to the great Nationalist pioneers of the recent past.
This is more of Plaid disolving in to a new joint party. My money is on Welsh Labour.
Bye bye Plaid, it was a nice dream whilst it lasted !
Heard Mikey German ranting on about even more years of "Labour Hegemony" post Plaid/Lab Pact...
Is EVERYONE in Welsh "politiks" reading Toni Gramsci today????
Just wait till little IWJ reads Trotsky...er, "Revolution Betrayed".
"Hegemony, Hegemony, they've all got in for me"
Very dissapointed. I may be a Plaid supporter, but I'm a Wales supporter first and foremost and I think this is a mistake.
Whilst I hope that IWJ makes the most of being in government with Labour I think a new flavour from the Rainbow would have galvanised Welsh politics. Even if that had brought Labour back stronger next time the chance to change the overall face of politics for ever was one I felt it would have been good to go for.
Good luck to the new government, I hope they get it right, but I am still sorry it wasn't so different.
Plaid Cymru will now join Labour in a coalition.
Plaid Cymru has now indisputedly come of age. It has gained stature as a serious and concerned political party, and as the only Party of Wales, the party which puts Welsh interests first.
It has taken on the role as the conscience of the people, and is well on the road to success. It is donning the mantle of power and testing the waters of bi-partisan government.
I would urge all rainbow warriors as well as supporters of other parties to back Plaid in its new venture in creating the conditions for nationhood.
Alan in Dyfed
Is it now not time that the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ including ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Wales drop their fanatical support for the conservative party and anything that is Blue. Thousands of people today have commented on the immense acheivements made by Tony Blair and his government. Why is it that the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Still only follow the 'True Blue' route.
Does the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ not realise that the people of Wales will tolerate a lot, but not a government with the Tories involved. A rainbow coalition would have been political suicide for Iean Wyn Jones and Mike German.
Rees, What bubble do you live in? I've always found that most of ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Wales has Plaid-y instincts. Perhaps it's just that they all feel a bit let down of late...
Just because you don't like the news, doesn't mean it is wrong.
'The people of Wales' have started to realise that Labour's constant demonisation of the evil Tories might not be 100% true and unbiased.
So Wales finally has a Nationalist-Socialist government.
Hmmmm....
What a pretentious load of piffle Alan Jones from Dyfed writes.
Plaid Cymru has....
Come of age......
Gained stature as a concerned and serious political party...
...the only party of Wales...
...puts Welsh interests first....
...conscience of the people....
....is donning the mantle of power...
...is testing the waters of bi-partisan government....
Just who are you trying to kid, eh!?
Plaid is the Welsh Nationalist Party and although they are keeping quiet about their Nationalistic sub-agenda we in the real world know them for what they are.
Their recent cosying up to the Tories shows that they are completely devoid of principle and lust for power at any cost.
Poor little Ieuan has been dazzled by the highly polished levers of power which Rhodri has been Brasso-ing for years.
Rhodri has had a bit of a kicking at the polls and is merely using Plaid's power lust to let Ieuan have a little go on the levers before he exposes Plaid as nothing more than opportunistic chancers.
I'll watch with great interest.
BTW my granddaughter says. "Please Mr. Jones, may I have my lap-top now?"
Not just a coming-of-age for Plaid, but one for the Assembly. Perhaps politicians, just like the electorate, have realised that with very little difference between policies it is better to work together than in opposition...
Plaid really have shown their maturity here. There are some good ideas coming from Plaid, and some good ideas coming from Labour. Let's hope that we get the best of both, and not the worst of both. This could be the best thing ever to happen to Wales - and even maybe UK politics.
As for the Tories - I think they need to accept that just like the election results, this is pretty much meaningless for them. Labour and Plaid have recognised the strengths of coalition, when they have similar views - if they do well, then they will be re-elected; if they don't do well, then they can blame each other and STILL have a chance to be elected.
My understanding is that Mike German decided to walk away from the discussion about a Rainbow Coalition, and then changed his mind and wanted to re-enter them. Bad move MIke.
As a socialist and support of Plaid thank goodness the Rainbow Coaltion did not happen.
Wales needs good solid socialist policies which look after all and not indvidualistic Conservatism that Britian has had to endure and be imposed from Westminster since 1979 to the present day.
Hopefully Plaid's influnece in Governnemnt will help to restore a socialist agenda in Wales and we will see the word Socialist and Socialism back on the political agenda and not being seen as a 'swear word' any longer with in the New Labour Party (Another name for Tories)and the New Labour Party move back towards a Socilaist Agenda because of Plaid's influence. This would be of benfit to all Welsh men, women and children, and hopfully a polical move to further distance the Welsh people from the control of Westminster, and progression towards full independence of Wales within Europe.
Gareth Bailey Warwickshire England
An unexpected but good outcome which I expect will be endorsed by the conferences both parties will hold. There is not really that much of a divide between moderate left of centre nationalists who are the majority in PC and majority opinion within the Labour group of AM's who want to move to a Scottish style parliament.
Rhodri and Ieuan have come out of this well. They have placed the need for stability and a progressive programme above tribalism. A real coming of age for Welsh politics and a coming together of the two radical traditions.
I would put money on a referendum being held on the same day as the next NAW election to maximise the prospects of success and remain within the 4 year timetable.
Congrats to Ieaun Wyn Jones and Rhodri Morgan for brokering a deal. IWJ is, at last, beginning to look statesmanlike. Hopefully, Wales will benefit from this agreement and finally secure a proper parliament.
Can anyone shed any light on why Gordon (tax and pension snatcher) Broon has suddenly ditched red for blue neckties? Explanation please Betsan Powys!
Congrats to Ieaun Wyn Jones and Rhodri Morgan for brokering a deal. IWJ is, at last, beginning to look statesmanlike. Hopefully, Wales will benefit from this agreement and finally secure a proper parliament.
Can anyone shed any light on why Gordon (tax and pension snatcher) Broon has suddenly ditched red for blue neckties? Explanation please Betsan Powys!
The feedback I'm getting tells me that Plaid's grassroots favoured the Rainbow Coalition. So is the deal with Labour another example - as with the removal of Dafydd Wigley - of Plaid's leadership blinding itself to reality, going against the wishes of the party, and making the wrong move?
Cos if this don't work out . . .
This is the best option.
For Plaid I look at this as a new unselfish move in poltics. We have a party that has put the interest of the Welsh nation first not their own. They could have so easily jump to bed with the rainbow coalition and be leaders, and IWJ becoming First minister.
For the anti Welsh Labour MP's in London, well its so obvious what comes first isn't it, their own personal careers!
It appears that Johnny Foreigner is truly Johnnny Foreigner and has not an ounce of loyalty to Wales as a nation among nations. If he lives in Wales and wishes the best for Wales and its people and is at all concerned that together we can make a difference, let him remain here, to work for Wales. Otherwise........
Welsh born, Welsh bred and when I die I'll be Welsh dead.
I am also British and wish to remain so. I would not wish Wales to have any more 'independence' than we already have.
I am also of the opinion that we do not need an Assembly either.
Independence and devolution are, IMHO, just a big hole in which to throw my hard earned cash.
I am at a loss to see what the Assembly has done for me. Apart from, of course, doubling my Council Tax.
The wealth and security of these Islands were brought about as a result of our Unity as a Kingdom and not as some fragmented republic or federation.
Of, course the Nationalist mantra of "If you don't like independence, go away", doesn't really work with me as I am as Welsh as a Welsh cake from Welshpool.
Where would you wish me to go?
Am I, and others of the same opinion, to be Ethnically Cleansed?
My loyalty to Wales has been called into question. How dare you Sir!
I have served Wales, as part of the UK, in uniform, for many years and resent your scurrillous comment, albeit made within the freedom of speech that The Unity of this Kingdom has preserved for you.
From your comments it would appear that your Nationalistic fervour would wish to remove that privilege from me.
I offer you the opportunity to withdraw your personal comments regarding my loyalty.
Nevertheless, your political opinions and comments, I accept, and wholeheartedly defend your right to hold and make them.
Kindly afford me the same courtesy 'sgwelwch.
To Johnny Foreigner :
I have no doubts about your loyalty to the Union, of Great Britain & N. Ireland. I question whether you can have split loyalties.
If I may make a suggestion -
it is Patagonia.....
Oes Heddwch!
To Johnny Foreigner :
I have no doubts about your loyalty to the Union, of Great Britain & N. Ireland. I question whether you can have split loyalties.
If I may make a suggestion -
it is Patagonia.....
Oes Heddwch!
I note that you accept my political comments.
Please read my postings "That Loyal" and "A Question of Allegiance" on my blog :
Johhny Foreigner is clearly a fraud. My guess is that he gets paid to smear and insult 'enemies of the (Brit) state' with phoney letters to newspapers, contributions to blogs like this, etc.
A clue was his suggestion that people like him might be ethnically cleansed by those awful 'Welsh nationalists'. No other contributor had suggested such a thing, but that's how these people operate. Black propaganda.
Another giveaway is the handle 'Johhny Foreigner', for that's how these people think of anyone who isn't English - and that includes us Welsh.
Sorry Royston, no fraudulence here. Just the simple truth.
I am British first and Welsh second.
I hold no brief for any Political Party and am certainly not being paid to make postings. Of course any offers would be carefully considered.
You claim that I am indulging in "black propaganda" and that no other poster has indicated a suggestion of ethnic cleansing.
Kindly refer to posting no: 17 written by Alan Jones :-
"If he lives in Wales and wishes the best for Wales and its people and is at all concerned that together we can make a difference, let him remain here, to work for Wales. Otherwise........"
What would you suggest that "Otherwise........" means.
I await your response with interest.
Your permanently planted pal.
johnny.
Apologetic footnote to Betsan.
Thank you for your patience in permitting this blatant thread-jacking but these thorny matters will not go away.
My non-nationalist stand-point seems to have upset some of the more fervent of your nationalist contributors but certainly nourishes the debate. I crave your indulgence. johnny.
Johhny Foreigner is clearly a fraud. My guess is that he gets paid to smear and insult 'enemies of the (Brit) state' with phoney letters to newspapers, contributions to blogs like this, etc.
A clue was his suggestion that people like him might be ethnically cleansed by those awful 'Welsh nationalists'. No other contributor had suggested such a thing, but that's how these people operate. Black propaganda.
Another giveaway is the handle 'Johhny Foreigner', for that's how these people think of anyone who isn't English - and that includes us Welsh
He's a useless troll using the out-dated half baked arguments of the 60s and 70s. Obviously he's neither Welsh nor well aquainted with Wales. I doubt he gets paid for it though, judging from the lack of quality in his comments. Hes probably a lonely individual who had a blog somewhere, but nobody read it.
To Johnny Foreigner :
"Otherwise.....he will not be helping to make the difference which Plaid hopes for and his contribution to Welsh life will be wasted." :-)
It is heartening to know that your loyalties are not in dispute and you do not in fact have racist views.
I think we need to define "nationalist". I think it means "creating the conditions for full nationhood" and that anyone who is loyal to Wales would naturally subscribe to the definition.
Apologies if I have misunderstood you.
Hello Alan.
Thanks for your response and apology.
As my last posting in rebuttal was obviously not approved by Betsan, and, not wishing to abuse her hospitality I will make a more detailed response on your blog.
Your pen-pushing pal.
johnny.
P.S. Thanks to Betsan for her indulgence.
Johnny
You're welcome! Thread-jacking (hark at her) positively encouraged ...
Sorry about the confusion Betsan. I thought that you had deleted my previous posting.
If You Go Down To The Woods Today You'd Better Not Be Surprised.......
A PLAYLET IN THREE SCENES
Scene 1.....Somewhere in the Blogmosphere Betsan is caught in a shaft of sunlight.
johnny foreigner emerges from the darkness.
.....and assuming his obsequious role as Uriah Heap, wringing his hands and looking up sideways, johnny says....
"I'm very 'umbly grateful to your Ladyship for your gracious and noble indulgence and promise faithfully to never darken your blogstep with such words as may offend such a refined personage as your good self."
Exits stage left, walking backwards, bowing and scraping and snivelling like a good 'un.
Scene 2....A damp and misty hollow somewhere in darkest Wales.
A gnome-like figure named Odiousviscious/Dandruff is seen hunched over his computer which is precariously balanced on a toadstool.
Enter stage right, a handsome and debonair foreign gentleman by the name of johnny with sightly raised left eyebrow and a steely glint in his eye.
He strides in a purposeful manner towards the toad and the stool.
"As for you Odio/Dandruff, you can kiss my.....oops, that was close. Sorry Betsan.
Now let me see, Odio/Dandruff. So far you have called me a useless troll, a gimp and a racist. You now deny my birth and my acquaintance with Wales.
You claim that I am lonely and have an unread blog. Nah! not me pal, I'm just a Pelagic Poster with seven grandchildren.
All this for disagreeing with your Nationalist fantasies. Pardonez moi?"
Odio's eyes start to swivel in opposite directions. Steam is seen to come from his ears. His head starts to rotate in a clockwise direction........360 degrees and more.
He cackles maniacally at the foreigner.
"If you don't agree with me, you're banned from my blog. You're not Welsh anyway, I haven't approved your application yet and I may not. Be gone to the back of the queue you foreigner and learn Welsh."
The foreigner is immediately cowed and dumbstruck with fear at the power and authority of the Odious One.
Desperate to escape, the foreigner enlists the services of a kindly-looking passing Fairy on a tandem in order to effect his escape from the Odourous one.......Oops, sorry...the Odious One.
Barbs and brickbats fly past their ears.
Fortunately, due to the swivelled eyes of The Odious One his aim is not very good. He relies on the scatter-gun approach wherein, if you throw enough, some may hit.
Today he is unlucky.
j.f....."Faster,faster!"
Fairy...."I'm pedalling as fast as I can!"
johnny gives her a gentle prod between the wings to encourage her.
j.f....."you are now"... he says with a wry grin.
Scene 3.
They reach the edge of the misty hollow and collapse in a sweaty heap in the glorious sunlight.
Fairy....."You're safe now."
j.f......."I'm so grateful how can I ever repay you?"
Fairy.....Well, it does get a bit lonely in the misty hollow....
johnny gently slides his hand to the nape of her swan-like neck.......
Oops. Sorry Betsan, I just got carried away for a moment. That's the grown-up's version.
Fairy..."You're safe now."
j.f....."Phew! that was close".
Fairy....."Didn't you see the sign at the edge of the misty hollow?".
j.f...... "No I didn't."
Fairy....."It says 'This is the Blog of free-range Nationalist Wales. Abandon hope all ye who enter in, unless, of course, you agree with Odio/Dandruff."
johnny heaves an enormous sigh of relief at his fortuitous escape from the fearsome Odio/Dandruff.
He thanks the kindly Fairy and gently kisses her outstretched hand.
They part. johnny into the sunset, to fight another day. The Fairy back to her vigilant patrol of the misty hollow in order to rescue the unwary.
THE END
Advisory note to parents:
No Gnomes, Fairies or Monoglots were hurt during this production and a suitable donation has been made to The UK Foundation for the correction of Nationalistic Swivel-Eye.
Ladies and Gentlemen. This was a lucky escape from what I have previously described as Nationalistic Nastiness.
Ordovicius/Sanddef is an accomplished exponent of this. He uses this type of insult to make up for his lack of cogent and reasonable debate.
Vote Plaid...Get Ordo/Sanddef.
Thankfully I am aware that not all Nationalists are as swivel-eyed as our pal Ordo/Sanddef, although some are currently honing their swivelling skills on me.
Nevertheless, I accept their point of view and oppose it, hopefully, with good humour and common-sense debate.
Incidentally, Ordo/Sanddef, I thought that you weren't talking to me anymore, or is it just that you like talking ABOUT me.
My Grandma always told me that it takes fewer muscles to smile than to frown.
On that basis, it would appear that you, Ordo, have face like bag of walnuts as there appears to be a permanent frown on your face where I am concerned.
On the other hand, my visage is as smooth as a baby's bum due to my benign smile whenever you pop up.
Lighten up! You miserable git.
Your polygenetic but playful pal.
johnny.
Footnote to Betsan:
.......well you did say that thread-jacking was positively encouraged. I am glad to be of service. j.f.
Well it just shows that Ieaun is putting the interests of Wales first. All those people who said that they just wanted power; well why didn't they stick to the 'rainbow'? I like Plaid because they put Wales first and they are also based here. The thing is decades ago and still now Wales is the poorest nation of the UK and one of the poorest countries is Western Europe; now how can that be when the UK is supposed to be one of the richest in the World; it doesn't work out. It's time for a change, time to show the World that Wales can look after themselves. We need to be able to secure the future of this beautiful land; it's people, culture and language; and before you ask, no I'm not a Welsh speaker, but proud there is something that shows we are different from the English; btw, my mother's English, so no 'he's a xenophobe' behaviour!
Lastly Betsan I love your blogs, and watch and listen to you with interest.
That last post made me chuckle almost as much as Dandruff setting up his own blog awards!