Conflicting opinions
Do you remember a maudlin old satirical song which contained the lines: 鈥淎s soon as this pub closes, the revolution starts鈥?
A cynic would have found echoes of it in this afternoon鈥檚 debate on world affairs at Labour鈥檚 Bournemouth conference.
Virtually every contribution from the floor ended with demands for 鈥渁ction, not words鈥 - action on everything from Burma to Darfur to Colombia to the Middle East.
As such conflicts generally attract the description 鈥渟eemingly intractable鈥, it would be all too easy to depict today鈥檚 debate as futile.
Certainly, those few speakers today who demanded the cancellation of Britain鈥檚 nuclear deterrent are unlikely to see this wish granted.
But, having listened to the entire debate seated in the hall, I am disinclined towards cynicism.
I tend more towards those speakers who argue that open discussion, the active ventilation of disgust at injustice, can, eventually, have an impact, particularly when it spurs governments and international organisations to act.
In addition, I was intrigued by contributions to the debate from two Scots in the Cabinet, Des Browne and Douglas Alexander.
Mr Browne, the defence secretary, spent much of his speech lauding the efforts of Britain鈥檚 armed forces and promising to improve their lot, both in the field and back home.
But I was more struck by the clear distinction he drew between the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq.
He described Afghanistan as 鈥渢he noble cause of the 21st century".
I am sure it is not remotely accidental that, in the immediately preceding section, he avoided applying such a tag to events in Iraq.
His tone, indeed, was one of mitigating what he described as 鈥渁 complex and difficult situation,鈥 while stressing that the UK would fulfil obligations 鈥渢o the Government and people of Iraq.鈥
Markedly, too, he noted at another point in the speech that the Commons will have the right to vote in future on Britain鈥檚 involvement in war.
As Secretary of State for International Development, Douglas Alexander announced further global aid, including 拢1bn over eight years to help tackle malaria, TB and HIV/Aids.
But, again, I was most drawn to the philosophical underpinning in his speech when he said that the distinction between foreign and domestic affairs had become eroded.
He said: 鈥淭here鈥檚 no over there and over here any more.鈥 In context, he was principally referring to the need for international co-operation to tackle poverty and disease.
But, interpreted otherwise, such a philosophical approach could easily elide into an argument for more frequent intervention to address conflict.
Which is the issue underlying the bitterly divisive arguments, within Labour and more generally, over Iraq.
I'm 
Comments
Iraq: A country in ruins. 800,000 dead. 4 million displaced.
That is not only Blair's legacy, but Gordon Brown's and the whole Labour party's.
But hey-ho lets not dwell on the past. Think Afghanistan and the mess there, think dictatorships in countries without oil, and think western economic imperialism dressed up as globalism.
"Action not words", demand Labour delegates. Do me a favour and be quiet for a change.
Those few voices raised in defiance of the leadership should be proud of themselves. Labour has a disgraceful record on the internation stage. The "ethical foreign policy" of the last honest man in Scottish Labour (Robin Cook) disintegrated in to ignoring Rwanda and complicity for the murdering of hundred of thousands in Iraq. The simple fact is next time something truly monsterous happens in the world which we could prevent - we wont. That is Blair's true legacy (along with the breaking of Labour's stranglehold on Scotland).
BRIAN,
i think you have been exposed to too
much of lifes little battles of trying to keep control of power, it surely turns one into a cynic, it did
to me anyway,the result i can sence
rhetoric at a glance.
all the goodies labour are promising
it their conf. would sound just fine
if we the minions did'nt know that
its all been happening for yrs.
darfur,a disgrace, iraq, a crime,
afghanistan,africa,all ignored till
now does our PM.really think we're
all stupid, we would'nt notice the
dead, starvation, and displaced
all over the world, so why act now...
Well Brian, count me in as one of the cynics. Mr Brown can instruct his minnions to use weasel words like 'complex and difficult' to describe the current situation in Iraq and 'noble cause' as a justification for our presence in Afghanistan. He's merely using Browne & Milliband to tell us that he's a different kettle of fish from his predecessor. Aye Right!! He was a pivotal part (he was in the Cabinet and he signed all the cheques) of the actions that ruined the former and criminally neglected the latter. Not only that, he cut back the money to the armed forces, tore the heart out of the Scottish regiments and sent soldiers into war dangerously ill-equipped. If there was any justice he should be standing in the dock of an international court alongside his former boss and his mates GW Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheyney et al.
If his Government of the past 10 years couldn't find it in their hearts to be more active when it came to Darfur and the antrocities of the Janjaweed militia or the suffering of the millions in Mugabe's Zimbabwe 'over there' I'd much rather he just shut up and kept his philosophical meanderings confined to his speech-writer's computer screen.
Now that even Douglas Alexander agrees that "There's no over there and over here any more" does that mean that UK DfID's other HQ over
in East Kilbride will now report
to Ms Linda Fabiani over here at
Holyrood except when she goes to
her constituency 'over there' at
the weekend? If Scotland got its
hands on 10% of UK DfID's budget
imagine the potential? Why should
this money be devolved to ASI (Adam Smith International) and all these
other consultancy firms but only a tiny amount is devolved to Holyrood?
Ditto for the FCO budget for British Council which is spent overseas on activities such as education and culture which were supposed to be devolved to us back in 1998 .....
That issue should now be on the agenda when Holyrood turns its attention to the bill setting
up Creative Scotland perhaps?
I'm with Ed.
It rather sickens me when Labour Minsters bang on about " Noble causes" and foreign " Complex situations". As a Nation ( I am talking UK here ) we cannot really afford to strut the world stage as did Blair. Not while at home we have pensioner and child poverty, and a third rate NHS. The Westminster Government hold the purse strings. They should now start thinking about concentrating on domestic policy and forget about trying to be the world's policeman.
I can only agree with 1,2,3 above!
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
To Keep it short and pithy today, with apologies to the Bard,
"Words are chiels that winnae ding"
And if you go and read the original, Nostradamus-like, IMHO it has much to tell us about British New Labour.
Could I humbly suggest that Des Browne reads a copy of my book on campaigning in Afghanistan before he starts talking nonsense about 'noble causes'. Campaigning in Afghanistan might have made sense in the 19th century when we had an Indian army. It makes no sense whatsoever today. It's easy to make speeches about noble causes in the comfort of an air conditioned conference hall by te seaside in England. It is far harder it seems to provide our soldiers with the equipment needed to fight in some of the most inhospitable conditions in the world.
thousands have been killed by the coalition in afghanisan too, we shouldn't forget that
I can only agree with 1,2,3 above!
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
Dorothy,
If it's me with whom you agree, how did you manage to beat me to it?
The 成人论坛 blogs are well bloggered today!
Slainte
ed
And, as it stands, It was 1,2,& 4 with whom I agreed, but we seem to be in the majority in any event. Pity we're all wiser than our Great Leaders...
GRRRRRR!
ed
Just a thought, but the pledge to give army personell a council tax rebate of 25% if they serve 6 months in Iraq or Afghanistan is coming from the defence budget. Obviously, like all Brown's pledges, the form filling required will be epic and the money allocated will be based on the assumption that less than half will be able to fill out the forms correctly - or will bother.
More importantly, it is coming from the defence budget ... so instead of money going on body armour for all or devices to combat road-side bombs it will go to a politically inspired, insignificant Labour Party stunt instead.
It sounds like another apology may be in order.
Think the song was by playwright Henry Livings, Brian. He did it as a duet with Jake Thackray. Memory hasn't improved it.
Get your facts right PMK. The Rwanda crisis was 1994-1996, under the Conservative Government, not Labour. Robin Cook was the Shadow Foreign Secretary at the time.
Criticising the UK's Foreign Policy is an easy and predictable target for the Nats......in an independant Scotland what would OUR Foreign Policy look like? Would we have one? What would OUR response to International crises and atrocities be? Would we take a neutral stance and continue to let the bigger players on the world stage try & sort them out?
And for those deriding the situation in Afghanistan, what do you want? The return of the Taleban??
Demands for 鈥渁ction, not words鈥 are in themselves merely words, the pressure of public opinion is more powerful than any pontificating politician with an agenda to impress his or her audience, only then do politicians in control of real power take the necessary actions.
We all know the wonderful jobs these servicemen and servicewomen perform, Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, spent too much of his speech lauding the efforts of Britain鈥檚 armed forces, merely traipsing out such statements at length during conference is more with the intent of applause for the speaker rather than the troops themselves; if he wishes to show genuine thanks for the job well done and the sacrifices made he would do better to supply these troops with the best of equipment, proper accommodation for troops and their immediate families to recover, support for those injured, mentally and physically and proper support for bereaved families.
Describing Afghanistan as 鈥渢he noble cause of the 21st century" but avoiding the award of a similar status for the events in Iraq is merely a political decision to distance the current Cabinet from the disasters in Iraq, this was underlined with the statement that the Commons will have the right to vote in future on Britain鈥檚 involvement in war; unfortunately for Mr Browne many of the major players who took these original decisions remain in office today, rephrasing may make today鈥檚 situation sound better but it does not change history.
hi brian,
no. 16, the last time i looked, i did not ever see any (any talliban)in scotland,no problem, i may be a bit better if uk. were to mind its
OWN buisiness once in a while. and
made all things fair, then some respect FOR ALL might insue.
re; no 16
An independent Scotland would be a peace loving country and wouldnt be involved with the blood of thousands of innocents AND our own soldiers on our hands. Wed be giving much more aid to war torn and impoverished countries like Rwanda and Malawi. The SNP has just doubled the budget for international aid for this!
Wed be like the majority of other civilised nations on earth who dont bomb people for oil and self interest. It would give us a foriegn policy to make us proud to be Scottish. Our voice would be loud and clear and our heart would be even bigger. And at last it would rid us of weapons of mass destruction sitting shamefully in our waters costing billions of pounds and god forbid with our own lifes.
Thats a real BIG country.
Roll on independence for Scotland.
Dear Bryan,
Add to labours botched Iraq war, -- Pensions, - Pfi-- tax-- foot and Mouth, (THIS SUBJECT IS A MAJOR MAJOR COVER UP), Super Bugs, Northern Rock, Housing, Lies ON THE oLYMPICS, AND OUR TREATMENT OF OUR BELOVED FORCES, THEN YOU HAVE A PARTY, that has bought MORE damage to this country than two world wars ever did, with Margaret Thatchers blessing, They are all a bunch of hypocrits.