成人论坛

Robbie Williams has tried to stand up for her. Meanwhile, a writer in the New York Post says:

鈥淎 Family Court commissioner has ruled - and about time - that shameless, panty-less, gum-snapping, head-shaving, alcohol-swilling, drug-seeking pop slut Britney Spears is unfit to raise grass, let alone kids.鈥�

BUSH-CLINTON-BUSH-CLINTON?
According to the Associated Press, forty percent of all Americans have lived under a Bush or a Clinton in the White House. If Hilary Clinton wins next year's presidential election, that number will no doubt go up even more.

There's been alot of talk about whether or not America is headed for dynastic politics.

Would you NOT vote for Hilary solely because her husband has already been President?
Do powerful political families bring stability and experience, or do they represent a strangle-hold on power?

If you're in India, Congo, Dubai, Bangladesh, Pakistan, the Philippines or Argentina -- do you think political dynasties should be banned?

Here's some interesting .

TOMORROW: IS DEMOCRACY POSSIBLE IN PAKISTAN?

ALL NEXT WEEK: SOUTH AFRICA

Don't forget all next week Ros and the team are broadcasting from South Africa.
They'll start off on the Zimbabwe border, talking about immigration.
On Tuesday, they'll broadcast live from the Kaizer Chiefs soccer ground.
On Wednesday: Does the ANC still represent South Africans?
And on Thursday, between sampling the delicacies at a braai (BBQ), you can chat to local farmers about land reform.
Finally, on Friday, World Have Your Say will come to you from the Zula bar in Cape Town to ask: is South Africa really the rainbow nation it aspires to be?

Also, thanks to Guy in Australia who takes up Edward's criticism of my linguistic skills and by extension, Americans in general:

"I鈥檓 so sorry to hear you had to grow up in America 鈥� please accept my condolences. Edward and I will no doubt both agree that you have coped remarkably with such a disadvantage."

G'day sport, Anu

AND HERE ARE YOUR EMAILS....

...DYNASTIES

Martha Grover, Portland Oregon

I think political dynasties do undermine democracies. Power and money are pooling into too few hands. And never have I seen more distrust and acceptance of conspiracy theories since the two bushes have been in office and now hillary is running which will only make it worse.

Justin - Portland, Oregon

I am an Obama supporter, and the thought of Hillary becoming the nominee makes me want to vote for Ron Paul. Dynasties are un-American and threaten the stability and legitamacy of our political future.

Emily

If a member of a political dynasty is elected in a true democratic election, I have no problem with political dynasties. Hillary is a great example of how experience can be gained and leadership strengthened by having a family member holding political office, as are the Kennedy's and others.

Anon, Oregon

You have been talking about dynastic families but what about those two party systems that are dynastic in their own right.

Anon, Singapore

Singapore has been ruled by Lee Kuan Yew since independence. He installed his son, Lee Hsien Loong as the PM after a seat warmer, Goh Chok Tong who was Lee Kuan Yew's "yes man". The Lee Family has such an overwhelming control over the media and judiciary, there is no room for any free political expression. The father, son and the daughter-in-law control the wealth of the country as they are in charge of the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation (GIC). I sincerely hope there is some mention of the dictatorship dynasty here in Singapore.

Jude - Vancouver, Canada

The road to pre-ordained success in circles of powers starts early I'm afraid. I'm particularily concerned by the way limited positions in U.S. universities are given to students whose parents also attended, the legacy system. Higher learning is key to everything that comes next, and this depressingly incestuous system denies many truly capable individuals an opportunity to serve their nation and the world.

Samuel Weaver, USA

I believe that the whole idea of democracies is that you can choose to vote for whom you wish! Thus, if you don't agree with the dynasty that is attempting to gain power then simply don't vote for the
person that's running for office.
Also, may we really consider Hilary Clinton part of a "Clinton Dynasty"? She's married to a Clinton, not a blood relative. Now if Chelsey was to run, that would be a dynasty scenario.
Thank you for your time.

Martin, Amsterdam

Wealth and Power have always been handed down through family networks. Occasional ballots do not change the basic dynamics of the feudal societies to which western elites want to export their patronage, or of established western plutocracies.

Dan Hortsch, Oregon

If the presidential election choice comes down to Hillary Clinton and any Republican, Hillary gets my vote. She will be a good president. The Democrats have the luxury of choosing from a number of good candidates:
Obama, Edwards, maybe former New Mexico governor Richardson, Sen.
Biden. Any one of them is better than the Republican lineup.

The notion of a new person not tied to the past has merit. However, I think Hillary Clinton has grown as a U.S. senator and from her time in the White House as an advisor to Bill.

As for George W. Bush: He is so removed from his father in terms of his ability, he almost does not continue a dynasty. His father, if in office more recently, would not have been the disaster that George W.
Bush has been.

Steve, USA

All this criticism of the US about dynasties is a little ironic. In the UK, you don't even have the ability to chose the person that is on your money! We get to at least choose our head of state! Yours is head of state by fact of birth! Then the People of Canada, Australia and New Zealand are stuck with the UK head of state on their coins, and Canadians have her on their $20 bill, and I'm sure the Aussies and Kiwis have her on some of their paper notes too! The 成人论坛 should look at their own country about dynasties before looking outward!

Marlene, Hillsboro, OR

I don't recall --- was there a big concern over "political dynasty" in the US when W was running or has this emerged because of the potential of another "Clinton"?

Jude Kirkham, Vancouver, Canada

The road to pre-ordained success in circles of powers starts early I'm afraid. I'm particularily concerned by the way limited positions in U.S. universities are given to students whose parents also attended, the legacy system. Higher learning is key to everything that comes next, and this depressingly incestuous system denies many truly capable individuals an opportunity to serve their nation and the world.

Cathleen,

I think the "Clinton again" phenomenon is a reaction to disaster with Bush2. We need the experience of the Clintons to clean this mess up that
Bush2 has created. "Clinton again" has nothing to do with dynasties. I do think Bush2 is a disaster dynasty.

Andrew Stamford, Australia

I still believe that circumcision is a form of assault, some call it child abuse. After all a child cannot make the decision for himself and is not afforded the luxury to be able to wait until he is old enough to choose whether he wants to have his penis mutilated. Let's face it that is what it is. I don't see that it is any different to what religious and cultural groups do to girls. Less damage to boys as their sexual organ still functions, but none the less it is being mutilated. Arguments of hygiene and health always crop up, but those boys and men who remain intact do not fare so badly for not having this done. As for cultural aspects, perhaps you can justify anything any act if you do it for long enough and to as many people as you can. You would not tattoo a child and if you pierced a baby with metallic objects social services would probably be called in to investigate, so why is circumcision so well accepted?

John Salem, Oregon, USA

Americans are suspicious of dynastic politics but we also try to give people the benefit of a doubt and not rule someone out simply because they're related to someone else. That being said, America will never have another president Bush any more than England will have another monarch named John.

Ronald Panaligan, Manila, Philippines

there are two kinds of political dynasties in the philippines:

1.) the remnants of the landlord class who are trying to secure their lands
2.) the succeeding generations of politicians who 'benefited' in their stay in office and tries to secure their post in politics which they consider their family business.

Chris, Seattle, USA

I don't think it is fair to argue that we have a Clinton dynasty, even saying a Bush dynasty is a stretch considering there has only been two. However the primary's have not even happened yet, I'm voting for Obama and hoping he will win the Candidacy, not because he is not a Clinton, but instead because I think he is the best candidate, I think it is unjust to claim Americans are lazy voters simply because we have had two Bush's.

Anonymous

The presidential election is a lot more complicated during this run. Not only do we have a familiar face :"Clinton", we also have other layers to consider. If either Clinton or Obama are elected President it will be the first woman or the first African American president. And that layers things with even more questions on what will happen.
Clinton not only is relying on her name but the fact that she's showing herself as being a strong woman.

Steve, USA

How are dynasties "unamerican" or "undemocratic"?? People have the choice to not vote for these people. Are we suggesting that people by virtue of whom they were born to shouldn't be allowed to run for office?
Is that American or democratic? Unless somebody is pointing a gun at your head, telling you to vote for another Bush, another Clinton, or another Kennedy, its really dishonest to say its undemocratic, because people are free to vote for who they want to vote for!

John Anthony, Oregon

Americans are suspicious of dynastic politics but we also try to give people the benefit of a doubt and not rule someone out simply because they're related to someone else. That being said, America will never have another president Bush any more than England will have another monarch named John.

Jon Davis

Is the U.S. Presidency under the Bush's and Clintons really a dynasty? Ultimately, the person that receives the most votes from the electoral college wins the election. This has worked since the ratification of the U.S. Constitutions. A candidate should not be penalized for what their parents have done. I certainly don't want my parents deeds to effect the potential for my future. They should have the same right to run for office. Let the voters decide. I do believe that campaign funding plays a major role, more than family association. There should be a cap on the amount of money a candidate can spend to level the playing field and take influence away from people such as the recently incarcerated Clinton contributer, Hsu.

Dave Price, Oregon

Let's not get too wrapped up in talk of "dynasty." Does this really qualify? Two four-year terms limit the notion in a big way. So, too, does the roll of the dice that is reproduction. Even the most ardent conspiracy theorist doesn't fear a Jenna Bush presidency.

It's not dynastic power. It's retail politics. Name recognition is the name of the game. James Baker, George Schultz and the gang didn't hand-pick George W. Bush to be their candidate because of his SAT scores.

Opting for the biggest name can cut both ways, though. I'm casting my primary vote for Barack Obama. In the general election, Hillary will fall prey to all the political dirt dug up during her husband's eight years in office, and she cannot survive it.

Jesse Smith in Portland Oregon

in America the elections process is based entirely on money
the majority of our senators are millionaires, the president and vice president are both multi millionaires, but very few common people are millionaires.
this subverts democracy
I think "ruling aristocracy" is a more accurate description than "dynasty"

Vernon

It seems ironic that when bigotry and hatred are mentioned we should be associating them with belief in God. This can happen though if we have "traditional religion" without the Spirit so to speak. As far as the Christian understanding goes we are all made in God's image but lost our spiritual connection to God when humankind decided to be autonomous and independent of God. This is where atheists find themselves and I fear for a society built on atheism where "man" is God (Naziism, Communism etc). Belief in God inspired humankind's greatest endeavours in art, music, the humanities etc. The bible says the god of this world has blinded the eyes of unbelievers. God is Spirit and He is spiritually discerned and atheists as a whole can be compared with members of the Flat Earth Society i.e. if we can't detect something with our physical senses it doesn't exist.

But to get back to the point originally brought up - the moral code came from God's word, the scriptures and where people have submitted themselves to God they are no longer dominated by their lower nature but by the Spirit. Then society is uplifted and we get unity, love, harmony, reconciliation, peace, joy - a far cry from bigotry, hatred etc and a wonderful choice to put to our children!

...ON BRITNEY AND CELEBRITY OBSESSION

Ken in Cleveland

I don't think the world neccesarily loves Britney as much as they love being voyeurs. Seeing a star suffer somehow makes people feel better about themselves and distracts them from worrying about real life. It's just too easy to understand the simple problems of a simple woman and ignore the complex suffering around the world.

What do I think about your debating this? Leave it to the paparazzi. I listen to the 成人论坛 every day, but today I am turning my computer off until your show is over.

Eoin, Dublin, Ireland

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE no more about brainless, asinine white trash Spears

Brian - Princeton, NJ, USA

Covering britny does not lead to greater human knowledge and understanding. If someone wants to find out about britney they can go to another news source etc, and this other news source won't be covering the important items that the bbc was does.

Marguerite in Portland Oregon

How about turning the tabloid trash into a discussion about the effects of drug and alcohol abuse on young children, and about the need to teach people appropriate parenting skills before they have children?

Matt, Oregon, USA

As a young American who has to search for an outside view on my own county and world issues, because of my nations lack of a global view, I believe a subject matter such as Brittney Spears on a network such as the 成人论坛 is extremely detrimental to your credibility.

We have millions of people in the US that are tired of hearing our American based networks covering these subject and labeling them as newsworthy. Let's focus on real issues such as Darfur, Basra or ANY other item of interest besides some pop star who may or may not be more pathetic than one of her Ex-Husbands.

John Wallace, Vancouver

First-Britney: Once again, you're appealing to the masses instead of ignoring the ratings and discussing something truly important. Surely, you can find another topic and leave this one to the entertainment cable channels.

Second-Dynasties: At least in the US, the idea that dynasties in a democracy somehow undermine the democratic process is ridiculous. The President is elected by the people via the electoral college, regardless of their family political history. Whether they belong to a dynasty is purely coincidental. When we get sick of the family, we'll vote for someone else.

Now, how about more of a discussion about what the individual can do to have an impact on the oppressive Myanmar government or the situation in Darfur. Thanks for your forum.

Chris Bartolini, Los Angeles

Sad to hear that you will give attention to that sad train wreck...makes you part of the problem. If I want fluffy celeb gossip there are plenty of venues here in Los Angeles. To suggest Britney is bigger than Burma (Myanmar thank you) is pandering to the lack of proportion popular in the media.
Seriously guys it's part of your job to raise the bar not give in to mediocrity. Think I will see what's on Radio 4...

Marguerite, Oregon, USA

How about turning the tabloid trash into a discussion about the effects of drug and alcohol abuse on young children, and about the need to teach people appropriate parenting skills before they have children?

Darlene Wiersig, Oregon, USA

A definite NO to any more talk about Brittany. I thought World Have Your Say was interested in educating and informing listeners. I can't think of anything that I can learn from Brittany. The press, especially public radio, should be the place where the star-worshipping crap stops.
PS I turn you off a good part of the time anyway because I find many of your programs uninformative. I don't listen to rant-and-rave commercial talk radio and your programs sometimes seem similar.

Andrew Horn, Berlin

The person who just said that you can't blame the press for doing what they do - ie this kind of obsessive celebrity coverage - because that's what the people want so you can't blame them for giving it to them, because that's how they make money is pretty off his rocker. That kind of logic allows that dope dealers, for example, are to be excused - after all they are giving people what they want and that's how they make money. They're only making a living, right?

Bob Payette, USA

Ditto to what Jennifer says. It is on all of the news channels. The only ones that don't dwell on it is 成人论坛, until know and NPR There are so many other things you can concentrate on, this should not be one of them. Sorry if I spelled her name wrong we have a Brittany Dog.

Glenn in Canada

Come on lets deal with real issues, tell Britney to get professional help end of story

Anon

More Burma [Aung San Suu Kui], More Putin /Kasparov, more Sudan, more Iraq, more Mugabe problems more eylmer fudd [Ahmadinejad ahma ahma din din din e jad] more meat no fluff

L

People are initially excited by the glamour and the entertainment, and then become interested
in the shadow side of celebrity success.

It provides a catharsis and escape from our own everyday problems.

Jon Bulette

i'm turning your program off for today. the meta "discussion about the britney discussion" approach is as boring as the britney discussion itself. the bbc should stick to stories that commercial outlets do not cover.

Grant, USA

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?
Now you're discussing the importance of takling about her.
Cut it out.
Come to your senses....PLEEEZE!!

Camilla Hadlock

Britney Spears is used by the media to distract us from the real, horribly serious issues of world news. It is a shame that you would waste your valuable forum discussing her. Why not discuss how the phenomena of celebrity encourages people to ignore the real and dangerous issues we face every day?

Jon Davis, Kentucky

Britney Spears is the easy story for the media. It is self made, no research needed. That is why her escapades are so prevalent. The good news stories that I am used to getting at 成人论坛 take research and hard work. I doubt her story is that different from that of the many examples of incompetent parenting that exist, especially where drug use is involved. Is this the same fate that Britney will see?

Andrew, Australia

Personally I think people lead such empty lives that they need to project onto these people to find some value in their own lives. Think about it and you will see that you are better educated, mentally stable and most likely a more interesting person.

Seriously, if you look into what it is you do and your own soul then you find much more value in it than you do. OK here is someone who is rich and famous, but should her nail polish or child's boots be so important. The public ultimately fawns all over them and places them up upon that pedestal.

Ultimately your political commentators summed it up best. Ignore it and it will go away.

Russ in Portland, Oregon

There is a word in German for the perverse interest in celebrity. It is "schadenfreude" (sp?), which translates as deriving pleasure at another's misfortune. This disposition is likely hard-wired in the limbic system of the brain. If so, it would be very difficult to overcome, like any addiction.

Robert Gass

I don't think dynasties are much of an issue here. I think debate here will be drawn on party lines. Republicans thinking of the Bush family will say dynasties are benign or good. If they are thinking about Hillary they will say they are benign or bad. The same for Democrats.

I started listening to your show 2 days ago, and I was very disappointed to hear that Britney would be a topic today. I understand the comment that it's good for children to see some gory details about her, but I doubt children are the demographic of this program. Britney is a very shallow topic. I predict most of the comments and discussion will be about whether or not she is a worthy topic for the show. When the worthiness of a topic is called into such debate before it can even be discussed, then it probably is not worthy. As a US citizen I'm embarrassed to see that our trivial news is so pervasive.

Steven Corran, USA

Please guys, this is demeaning the 成人论坛 and your show by even discussing Britney Spears. The only thing that might make this worthy is the horrible role models girls have, and that they actually want to emulate these horrible role models. Your average every day woman doesn't have millions of dollars, so if they think they can not have a day job, can party every night, and act in irrational and crazy ways, they will not get very far in life, and certainly won't be able to live independently if they want to. I'm guessing that feminists are appalled by the horrible role models girls have, and that girls look up to and emulate these horrible behaviors. It's a shame that more women don't look up to female astronauts (though maybe not Lisa Nowak!) or physicists rather than someone who earns a living from basically selling sex appeal.

Stephen Reynolds, Oregon, USA

It's not that celebrities are never newsworthy, just that they seldom are, and they get way too much coverage in the so-called "news" media, at the expense of real news, which is covered more inadequately every year.

Being a celebrity is extremely destructive for the poor folks who "enjoy" it, as the career of Britney Spears so well illustrates. If 成人论坛 wants to do some good, it might put together a documentary on the huge forces that almost inevitably distort a celebrity's life, especially if he or she has attained that exalted status at a young age.

Britney Spears makes, perhaps, a good cautionary tale--O youth, aspire not to be a celebrity! As a role model, she is a disaster, because she was too young to recognise the danger when she was elevated to that fatal status.

Those who want to gossip about celebrities should certainly have their outlet, perhaps on an audience-participation radio programme. But not, please, on the 成人论坛, unless there is truly compelling reason.

Dan Hortsch, Oregon, USA

Forbes magazine studied sales of celebrity magazines in the United States and found that issues with Britney Spears on the cover sold poorly. She appeared often, but other celebrities sold much better, Jennifer Aniston being the most popular. Britney finished near the bottom and just above Paris Hilton.

Scott Millar, Oregon, USA

Your questions about celebrity have a very simple answer which few people are willing to admit: media content is now determined by what the average person is interested in and unfortunately the average person is just that: AVERAGE. They have an average intelligence level and average taste. The result you now see average crap in all forms of media and entertainment.

This is also why there are so many problems with the seemingly good idea of democracy and how someone so dumb like Bush can get into office, because the average decides, and the average is often wrong. It is an unfortunate conundrum about the world that I never hear anyone discuss.

Britney? No, no, no. Here in the U.S., we're bombarded with Britney "news" every day. Someone mentioned that we should talk about her to teach kids that what she's doing is wrong, but in fact we're teaching them that bad behaviour will get you a lot of attention. Talk about it all you want, but if you don't mind I'll switch off and find some real news somewhere else.