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Tim Dowling fell into journalism by mistake; he is not an ambitious man, never was, never will be, but he's fascinated by what it means to be desperately driven to succeed.

He talks to those who have ambition searing through their veins.
Today he meets Saira Khan, business woman and runner-up in the tv show The Apprentice, who claims to have been ambitious since she was a small child. Growing up in Long Eaton, Derbyshire, the oldest of four children of Pakistani immigrants, she set her heart on doing better than her parents, having financial security and learning the confidence to do whatever she wanted. Starting out as a town planner, she found her natural place in the sales team of a biscuit manufacturer. Since her appearance on 'The Apprentice', she went on to run her own business, and is now also a TV presenter and motivational speaker.

Saira's also a mother. She talks candidly about wishing not to be a pushy parent and about her need to curb her ambitious streak where her children are concerned.

Saira and Tim discuss the merits and drawbacks of ambition: does it lead to happiness and fulfilment or a never-ending nagging discontent and anxiety?

Producer: Lucy Lunt.