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IN TOUCH 鈥� Dog passports and online dating
TX:聽 21.07.20聽 2040-2100
PRESENTER:聽 PETER WHITE
PRODUCER:聽 LOUISE CLARKE-ROWBOTHAM


White
Good evening.聽 Tonight, unraveling the new rules about taking your guide dog to Europe 鈥� we examine the effect of the post-Brexit changes.聽 And to tell or not to tell 鈥� will the growth of going online during lockdown put visually impaired people on more equal terms in the dating game?聽 More on that later.
But first, after the 1st January next year it may be more difficult to travel outside the UK if you have a guide dog.聽 When the UK was part of the European Union you could take your dog from here to EU countries and back again without them having to go into quarantine, provided that certain conditions such as having a pet passport or getting them microchipped were met.聽 That will stay the same until the end of this year but after that 鈥� well it could be that you鈥檒l need to follow a completely different process, you will no longer be able to use pet passports and there鈥檒l be different rules to follow.聽 What that process will be is still being negotiated with the European Union but it could mean that you鈥檒l need to plan your trip at least four months in advance.
David Lucas has been a guide dog owner for the past 20 years and regularly travels for business.聽 David, first of all, I mean how easy is it for you to travel with a guide dog at the moment?

Lucas
Well it hasn鈥檛 been that easy now.聽 You still have to have your dog checked within 10 days of travelling, so that makes it pretty difficult already.聽 But what I鈥檓 reading on social media is it鈥檚 going to take probably four months.聽 I speak at conferences and things like that and I often get a phone call a week in advance saying can you come to Rome or Belgium or whatever next week, if there鈥檚 a four-month process I can鈥檛 do that.

White
So, at this stage you鈥檝e not worked out what the answer to this is?


Lucas
Well no because no one seems to know themselves yet.


White
I mean would you have to travel with someone else 鈥� what are the possibilities?

LucasWell for me I mean one of the side effects of my condition is that I can鈥檛 walk in a straight line without the dog.聽 Now if I鈥檓 appearing in public, giving a talk or something, the last thing I want to do is to walk up onto a podium sort of falling about and not being able to walk in a straight line, looking like I鈥檓 a drunk or something 鈥� I need the dog, the dog gives me my independence.

White
Let me go to Chris Theobald, who鈥檚 the Public Affairs Manager at Guide Dogs.聽 So, I mean, how much do we know for sure about what will happen after the 1st January?

Theobald
We don鈥檛 have that certainty and that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e concerned about at the moment and we鈥檙e calling for the UK government to work with the EU Commission to bring clarity on this point.聽 As you say, at the moment, until the end of the transitional period, the UK鈥檚 being treated as if we were a member of the pet passport scheme.聽 Once we鈥檝e left that, there鈥檚 almost like three different options to go down.聽 So, the UK鈥檚 applied for part one listed status and we鈥檙e in touch with Defra 鈥� the Department for the Environment 鈥� which manages these affairs on a regular basis and have been since this all began.聽 They鈥檝e applied for part one listed status but that hasn鈥檛 been approved by the EU Commission yet.

White
And what does part one listed status actually mean?

Theobald
Yeah, that would mean the process is very similar to now, there鈥檒l be some differences in terms of paperwork 鈥� it鈥檚 a third country passport we would have 鈥� but the process would broadly be in line with what we have now.聽 Part one listed countries are countries that have very close relationships with the EU 鈥� countries such as Norway or Switzerland or Iceland.聽 Further down there鈥檚 part listed 鈥� part two listed status.聽 So, that鈥檚 countries such as the USA or Canada or Japan and a number of others.聽 So, there is more paperwork involved in that and more vaccinations required.聽聽
What we don鈥檛 want is unlisted status and so this is where the UK would be a completely third country and any person wishing to travel with that animal to the EU would need to leave at least four months beforehand in order to plan, in order to carry out the appropriate tests.聽 As well as being a more complex process there鈥檇 be more costs involved as well.聽 So, that鈥檚 what we are asking the UK government to provide clarity on.


White
You said that you鈥檙e talking to the government, you鈥檙e trying to get them to negotiate with the EU, are they not doing this at the moment, is this not happening?


Theobald
Our understanding is 鈥� so the UK鈥檚 application to be a part one listed status has been logged with the EU Commission and they are working on the details of that.聽 But we urgently need clarity on this point.


White
Well we heard David talking there about how he could be affected by the worse case scenario; we鈥檝e also had this email from Lora Fachie.聽 Now she鈥檚 the reigning Paralympic champion of the three-kilometre pursuit on the tandem with the GB cycling team.聽 Her email says: 鈥淚 regularly travel to training camps and races with my guide dog, Tai, so long as they are in Europe and she helps to maintain my independence when I鈥檓 in strange and new environments.聽 Training and racing at a professional level can often be intense, so it is beneficial for everyone to be able to get some personal space and I can鈥檛 do this when she鈥檚 not around.聽 She鈥檚 also become my lucky mascot鈥︹�� Lora says, 鈥溾��I seem to perform better when she鈥檚 around which is probably due to the fact that she鈥檚 good for my mental health.鈥澛�
I mean people like Lora, Chris, will need to know pretty soon won鈥檛 they in order to plan their lives?


Theobald
Yeah, Lora sets out the reasons why it鈥檚 so important that people are able to travel with confidence and understand the processing system.聽 So, that鈥檚 why we appreciate it is a complex area because it relates to the UK鈥檚 future relationship with the EU, about borders, about immigration and about the transport of animals and public health.聽 But nevertheless, it鈥檚 still a really important area and particularly important to guide dog owners that they have the confidence and the information that they need to travel.


White
What鈥檚 your advice to people who may already be planning to travel next year?


Theobald
So, at this stage, on the Guide Dogs website we do provide a lot of information on travelling abroad, so those resources are there.聽 But we would advise all guide dog owners to check on gov.uk for the latest updates, it鈥檚 best to check directly there.聽 There is also a telephone helpline which is available but at this stage we鈥檙e advising anyone who鈥檚 wishing to travel in 2021 to keep abreast of the information on the gov.uk website.


White
Just to go back, finally, to David.聽 I mean you鈥檝e heard what Chris says, how reassured are you by what you鈥檝e heard?


Lucas
I understand Guide Dogs position perfectly.聽 I鈥檓 not reassured at all.聽 The government have gone to great lengths to reassure every other traveler聽that travel will carry on normal but if you have a service dog it is going to be a problem.聽 So, I鈥檓 really looking for a lot more reassurance than what we鈥檙e hearing at the minute.


White
David Lucas, Chris Theobald, thanks both very much.聽 And of course, we will keep reporting on the situation.
And there鈥檚 another mobility problem coming over the horizon 鈥� the E-scooter, which we鈥檝e already featured on the programme.聽 I didn鈥檛 think it would be long before we got emails like this one from Mark Pample.


Pample 鈥� email
Recently my sighted guide and I were walking along our local backstreets on our way to the shops when I sensed a whoosh of air as a speeding E-scooter on the pavement sped past us, narrowly missing my white cane with no warning at all.聽 I am now worried, in fact really frightened, in fear of a possible collision.聽 This is completely unacceptable and must be addressed immediately, i.e. capturing number plates by CCTV networks and immediate fines for the use of E-scooters on pavements imposed.

White
Now many activities have had a boost since lockdown 鈥� working from home, the use of streaming services and, it seems, online dating.聽 Social distancing has severely restricted the chances of eyes meeting across a crowded room 鈥� never the easiest thing to achieve for visually impaired people at the best of times 鈥� but has the growth of online dating evened up our chances in the dating game?聽聽
Well our reporter, Fern Lulham, is a self-confessed veteran of dating online, so we鈥檝e asked her to check this out for us.聽 So, Fern, first of all, what鈥檚 the evidence about the recent growth of online dating generally?

Lulham
Well Peter, according to the Chief Executive of Match Group the average number of daily messages sent across all of Match platforms increased by almost 30% in April compared to the end of February.聽 In particular, there was a big increase in the use of video chat features, which despite their availability had not been used in significant numbers before the lockdown.聽 Tinder witnessed over three billion swipes on March 29th, the highest number ever recorded, and Tinder also reported that women users are swiping 37% more every day since the pandemic began.


White
Now I very much doubt whether there鈥檚 any evidence about the numbers of visually impaired people but from your experience, does it pose particular challenges if you鈥檙e visually impaired 鈥� online dating?


Lulham
Well I suppose the most obvious challenge is that you can鈥檛 see the pictures and online dating can be a very visual platform at times.聽 But, for me, the biggest challenge is when do you disclose your disability?聽 Do you put it in your profile, do you tell them when you鈥檙e on the date?聽 I didn鈥檛 put it in my profile for ages and that definitely led to some awkward dates where I couldn鈥檛 read the menu, I was trying not to fall over things, I was trying to sit at a table that didn鈥檛 have people already sitting at it, the person I was with had no idea that I couldn鈥檛 see, it was very awkward.


White

Are there any advantages, do you think, for online dating for visually impaired people?


Lulham
Absolutely.聽 I think it鈥檚 difficult if you鈥檙e visually impaired in clubs and bars, as it is, because obviously it鈥檚 dark and it鈥檚 loud but then when you鈥檝e got to try and catch someone鈥檚 eye from across the room which is practically impossible and then you鈥檝e got to make that visual flirtation, you鈥檝e got to try and give them that come hither look 鈥� it鈥檚 just a visual nightmare.聽 So, online dating takes away all of that and allows you to connect with people without having to go through all of that rigmarole.


White

Okay.聽 Well we asked you to measure your experiences against those of other people and we鈥檝e got some people there for you to do it.聽 Just introduce them.


Lulham

Yes.聽 So, I鈥檓 pleased to introduce Joy Addo and George Sullivan, both of whom are visually impaired and both of whom have been online dating during the lockdown.聽聽
So, Joy, I鈥檒l turn to you first.聽 I know you do a podcast about online dating, how鈥檚 online dating changed during the lockdown?


Addo

I would say that men have become a lot more hungry during the lockdown and their messages have become a bit more vulgar, I would say.聽 That鈥檚 the biggest change.聽 And also, I鈥檝e been able to see that a lot of men actually didn鈥檛 care too much about the lockdown and they still wanted to meet and stuff, regardless of the rules, which was a bit worrying.


Lulham

And as a visually impaired person have you found advantages to not being able to meet up straightaway, has it given you a bit more of a chance to chat?


Addo

Yeah, definitely and also, you鈥檝e just got that excuse, haven鈥檛 you, to be like 鈥� oh well, we can鈥檛 go on a date because lockdown.聽 And I like to take time before I meet anyone anyway, I really like to talk for a little while because it鈥檚 not as easy for us to just go on a date, like there鈥檚 so many other things that I have to think about, so getting to know the person first is a lot better.


Lulham

And George, I want to bring you in on this because as I mentioned video dating during the pandemic has completely exploded, have you had any experiences of video dating as a visually impaired person and what鈥檚 that been like?


Sullivan

Yes, I鈥檝e had one.聽 There was a girl I was chatting to, we鈥檝e been chatting for a few weeks and had a couple of video chats.聽 It was more awkward for me, like this girl was sighted, so, obviously where I鈥檓 not able to see with the video I was kind of having to put it everywhere and not knowing where, if she could see me, so that was a bit awkward to start off with.


Lulham

And some people would say that having a visual impairment makes you more vulnerable to knowing who is on the other side of that screen.聽 Have you had any experiences of being taken advantage of when you鈥檙e online dating?


Sullivan

They tried to, like this person obviously 鈥� we was getting on really well, we was going to plan to meet up when the lockdown was finished because like Joy said there鈥檚 a lot of people out there that don鈥檛 really care about the lockdown but I鈥檓 not very keen on going out at the moment, so, we were talking fine and then she started asking me for money and then obviously I said no, because I hadn鈥檛 met her, I didn鈥檛 really know who it was.聽 I know we鈥檝e had video chat and that but it鈥檚 not 鈥� I only really give money to my family or my close friends.聽聽


Lulham

Definitely.


White

Can I 鈥� can I butt in here because I鈥檓 really interested in this idea of disclosure that Fern raised.聽 I mean Joy, what鈥檚 your rule about disclosure?


Addo

My rule on disclosure is do it as soon as possible, so I definitely write it in my profile that I have a visual impairment, I tell them that I have a white cane 鈥� I call it my pimp stick 鈥� and I say if they annoy me on the date I will use it.聽 I think it鈥檚 really important to just be honest and say it straightaway.


Lulham

And George, do you think that you were taken advantage of because they knew about your visual impairment 鈥� did you put it in your profile?


Sullivan

Yeah, so I always say that obviously I can鈥檛 see because I just think you should be honest towards the start because then they can鈥檛 come 鈥� I don鈥檛 know, I鈥檇 just rather 鈥� if they can鈥檛 accept me the way I am then obviously they鈥檙e not that right person.聽 Maybe they did take advantage 鈥� I don鈥檛 really know, to be honest.聽 But what I have noticed with stuff like Tinder and other stuff is there鈥檚 a lot of 鈥� lot of people on there that send you dodgy links and want money.聽 I鈥檓 not saying that鈥檚 everyone on there, it鈥檚 just鈥�


Lulham

It鈥檚 a difficult balance to strike, isn鈥檛 it, knowing when to disclose it and how to do it.聽 With the lockdown starting to ease now, Joy, and you can meet for a date, albeit with social distancing rules in place, is that something that as a visually impaired person you鈥檙e worried that people might get a bit too close for comfort?


Addo

Definitely and I think yeah, I think people could 鈥� yeah鈥� and also, it鈥檚 a case of if you kind of need guiding by your potential date they鈥檙e not really allowed to do that, so it鈥檚 a bit weird.聽 So, I think, for me, I鈥檓 just going to wait until we鈥檙e allowed to touch again.


Lulham

Big part of dating.


White

One point that I would like to raise with you, because you鈥檙e now all relatively experienced at this game and I鈥檓 sure you鈥檙e all very mature, but what about very young people who may be tempted to use this method to meet people, what would you advise?聽 I mean should you stick to reputable dating agencies?聽 I guess dating agencies have lower age limits anyway.聽 Fern, what鈥檚 your take on this?


Lulham

I think it鈥檚 definitely approach with caution and have safety plans in place 鈥� always tell somebody if you鈥檙e going on a date where you鈥檙e going and meet in a place that鈥檚 got a lot of people around.聽 I suppose some sites are better than others but it is very hard because you can meet dodgy people anywhere 鈥� they hang out all over the internet.


White

Yeah and anyone can.聽 Joy?


Addo

Yeah, I agree with Fern and also, I would say just have your wits about you all the time and date online if you want to, if you don鈥檛 want to date online then you don鈥檛 have to.聽 But I feel like whatever method you decide to choose just be yourself from the beginning because it just saves any little surprises later on down the line.


White

And George, you鈥檝e described how you鈥檝e been bitten once by being tapped up for money, what would your advice be?


Sullivan

Obviously just like 鈥� echoing what the other people said 鈥� just be yourself from the start but don鈥檛 鈥� try not to be too trusting or anything like that because at the end of the day these people are strangers 鈥� they could be nice 鈥� you鈥檝e just got to be on the edge of caution.聽 That鈥檚 like from my point of view, like I know because I鈥檝e been bitten once, not everyone鈥檚 like that on there, it just kind of knocks your confidence a bit.


White

Just one final thing Fern, given the growth in online dating and presumably amongst visually impaired people too, do you think that will last when lockdown ends?


Lulham

Yeah, I think it is a great tool for meeting people, I think it鈥檚 definitely helpful, as I said, it has advantages, particularly if you do have a visual impairment and I imagine that it will continue to do well.


White

Fern Lulham, George Sullivan and Joy Addo 鈥� thank you all very much indeed.
And, of course, we鈥檇 like your experiences 鈥� good, bad, successful, disastrous.聽 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk or join us online, that鈥檚 bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can download tonight鈥檚 and previous editions of the programme.聽聽
That鈥檚 it from me, Peter White, producer Louise Clarke-Rowbotham and studio manager Jonathan Esp.聽 Goodbye.