成人论坛

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

听

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 成人论坛 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

听

听

IN TOUCH 鈥� Covid Testing & Vaccinations: What You Need To Know

听

TX:听 26.01.2021听 2040-2100

听

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

听

PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 MIKE YOUNG

听

听

White

Good evening.听 During the covid crisis we鈥檝e been really conscious, on In Touch, of trying to provide answers to the issues which have been causing most concern to visually impaired people.听 Which is why, this week, we鈥檙e going to be concentrating on how to get accessible information both about testing and vaccination.听 As testing and vaccination accelerate how sure can we be of getting information in a form we can read or hear or touch?

听

In our inbox we鈥檝e seen a lot of frustration about getting and carrying out tests and how you can be sure of discovering, in an accessible way, where and when you鈥檒l receive that all important call for the jab.

听

Let鈥檚 hear, first, from two In Touch listeners who鈥檝e shared their worries with us.听 Lecturer, Brian Matthews, who鈥檚 from Leeds and Olav Erinson [phon.], of the Redbridge Low Vision Group in Essex.

听

Brian, if I can come to you first.听 You鈥檝e had real difficulty getting tested when you feared you had coronavirus last year, just explain 鈥� what happened to you and your circumstances.

听

Matthews

Yeah, I was feeling unwell last October, tried to inquire about a test through the 119 service.听 When I asked how does a blind person go about getting a test they didn鈥檛 really know the answer to that question and when they consulted with their supervisor, their supervisor didn鈥檛 know the answer to that question and they advised that I get in touch with my GP.听 I didn鈥檛 get much of an answer from my GP either.听 So, in the end, I just decided I would self-isolate and I started to feel very much better within a couple of days.听 I probably didn鈥檛 have coronavirus but I guess I still don鈥檛 know whether I did or not.

听

White

And on the issue of vaccinations, what are your concerns about how you think you鈥檒l be informed about what the situation is?听 You鈥檙e in your 40s, so it won鈥檛 necessarily happen yet but what are you expecting to happen?

听

Matthews

That experience of trying to get a test sort of makes me nervous about the information channels, how it is that I鈥檓 going to be informed that it鈥檚 my turn for a test, how I鈥檓 actually going to get to the testing centre 鈥� particularly if it鈥檚 one of these large-scale centres that might involve sort of long queues.听 And the person who comes to read our post hasn鈥檛 been coming to read our post for the course of the pandemic.听 If a letter arrives to invite us for our vaccine then it鈥檚 going to get missed.

听

White

Let me move to Olav 鈥� Olav Erinson 鈥� I think you鈥檝e heard of similar problems accessing covid testing, haven鈥檛 you?

听

Erinson

On top of that, we, the Redbridge Low Vision Group, were asked by Redbridge Track and Trace team to help them get people engaged because it seems that there was a barrier to this.听 And so, what I did was I started just making enquiries.听 I think I did what Brian was doing, except I was phoning them several times a day and several days a week to bottom this out.听 Now by coincidence last September I had to have a minor operation and as I left the hospital, following the pre-operation assessment, somebody handed me a covid test kit and said 鈥� oh do this, we鈥檒l send a courier.听 Now I didn鈥檛 know anything about it, I took it home, I just opened it up, shoved it in, wiggled it around and I can certainly say, from experience, it was easy.听 I shoved it back in the container, back in the bag and the courier collected it.听 Now that worked, that was simple.听 When I was calling the NHS 119 service and asked about booking a covid test and I was told I had to give them a mobile phone number and my email address and I asked 鈥� well, what happens when I don鈥檛 have a mobile phone number and an email address 鈥� and they said 鈥� well, you don鈥檛 get a test, that鈥檚 it, you must have both.听 They did suggest I could use somebody else鈥檚 mobile phone, a number and email, but that means sending my results to them.

听

White

What鈥檚 your sense of a lot of the members of your Redbridge Low Vision Group and other people, because a lot of people are finding it very difficult to do the test, some people are finding it difficult just to pack the box afterwards.

听

Erinson

Yes, I think it鈥檚 difficult.听 I would surprised if many people who are visually impaired are able to use the test service, I just don鈥檛 understand why they鈥檙e making it virtually impossible for people with a vision impairment to even book a test.听 You know, the barriers don鈥檛 stop there, if Brian pushed on further and got a test, the home test kit arrives and it has got a barcode on it, I鈥檓 expected to read that and then tell them what it is.听 Every layer of the security is a barrier to visually impaired people.

听

White

Let me just quickly ask you 鈥� what about the vaccine 鈥� will you be getting that through your GP do you think or one of the bigger centres and how do you expect to find out when it鈥檚 your turn in the queue?

听

Erinson

I happened to be talking to my GP the other day about something unrelated and she said 鈥� Oh, we鈥檙e currently doing group two vaccines, you鈥檙e in group four.听 So, I thought, lovely, that鈥檚 all I need to know, they will tell me, I will go along.

听

White

But the trick is you鈥檙e talking to your GP and we鈥檙e going to be coming to our GP on the programme, how many people are and how many people find it possible to get through?

听

Olav and Brian thanks very much, stay with us.

听

Let鈥檚 hear from two more guests now.听 Sarah Lambert is Head of Social Change at the RNIB and they have been liaising with the government about covid testing and vaccinations.听 Sarah, what鈥檚 been done already to try to make the testing process more practical for blind and partially sighted people?

听

Lambert

We recruited about 50 blind or partially sighted people to go through the testing process, to go through the whole pathway from ordering a kit to registering it with the barcodes and the Department of Health and Social Care has properly kind of tracked people as they were doing that to really look at every stage of the way 鈥� what might the barriers be and what could they do in order to address those barriers.听 They made a significant number of recommendations, including let鈥檚 get rid of the need for that barcode reading, can we send out pre-registered kits, can we look at how you might want to look at the box, can we look at the email.听 And a lot of those recommendations just haven鈥檛 been implemented yet鈥�

听

White

That was my question, when it comes to testing it does seem you鈥檝e said all sorts of good things if they happen, it does seem, though, that little has changed so far.

听

Lambert

They didn鈥檛 think about accessibility from the start.听 A system was set up and now we鈥檙e having to go back and look at it again and retrofit and change a system that鈥檚 already in place.

听

White

Trouble is people want answers now.听 I mean we did invite both the Department of Health and Social Care and NHS England to take part in this programme, disappointingly neither were able to provide us with a spokesperson despite being given plenty of notice.听 But in a statement the Department of Health said: 鈥淲e have partnered with the RNIB to make it easier for people with a visual impairment to access a test, as well as making them available in GPs鈥� surgeries for people unable to travel to a testing centre.鈥�

听

What do you say to that, are you satisfied with what鈥檚 been done so far?

听

Lambert

The challenge for us is really just making sure that those recommendations are taken forward.听 I mean one of the things that we鈥檝e done in the meantime is write out a description of what to expect if you do get the home testing kit 鈥� so what challenges that you might face 鈥� so that people can have a look at that in advance and look at where they might need to get sighted help, particularly around the registration of the kits is the particular challenge if you have to read a number on a barcode.听 So, it is possible to maybe use some apps like Be My Eyes or get on a video call with somebody so that they can read out the barcode for you.听 It鈥檚 a lot slower than it should be.

听

White

Even that is only for 鈥� will help people with good technology skills.

听

Lambert

Exactly.

听

White

Let me bring in our GP 鈥� Dr Anshumen Bhagat 鈥� running a practice in North London.听 So, you鈥檙e at the sharp end.听 First, what do you make of the covid testing system for visually impaired people, particularly when someone like Brian is showing symptoms and being told not to leave home?

听

Bhagat

You know all the problems that I鈥檝e just listened to all exist, still.听 I鈥檓 an on the ground jobbing GP and that鈥檚 who I鈥檓 representing, I don鈥檛 represent any bodies 鈥� I represent my patients.听 We鈥檝e kind of really had to sort of start to make up our own support services.听 We鈥檝e certainly looked at are there any sighted carers that are in situ that potentially could help.听 Now I agree that not everybody has the luxury of that and certainly that still poses a challenge.听 How can we make 119 work a little bit better for us?听

听

White

That鈥檚 the information service, yeah.

听

Bhagat

It is and it鈥檚 about how do we start to use that 119 service a little bit better and can there be 鈥� even, for example, a video service or something like this that could assist patients whilst doing the swab.

听

White

Could you expect your GP to help you with that?

听

Bhagat

We have not been involved, in GPs鈥� surgeries in primary care, with any form of PCR testing.听 This has all been taken away from us and gone into sort of central government control and hence all of this technology and these apps and phone numbers which, to be fair, does work well for those that are sighted.听 It鈥檚 important that we try our best.听 I think many, many surgeries would certainly go out of their way to 鈥� I think we would go out of our way to assist.

听

White

Right.听 Let鈥檚 just look at a few more of the emails that have reached us recently and these focus more on the vaccination process.听 Jill Allen-King emailed, she said: 鈥淚 went on December 18th for my vaccine, I was given a couple of leaflets, a week later I had them read for me by my friend, Sue, who only comes in once a week.听 The leaflet said I should read it before I had the vaccine.听 I asked at the time if it was available in an alternative format, I was told they would let me know.听 I went back yesterday for my second vaccine and was told you have to go on the web for the information.鈥�

听

And Oriel Britton says: 鈥淚t鈥檚 vital that the NHS complies for the Equality Act and the NHS Accessible Information Standard and sends out patients鈥� invitation letters to attend vaccination clinics in the format of their choice, so that people might read their own correspondence unaided.鈥�

听

Sarah, what about vaccinations?听 As you can hear there鈥檚 a lot of worry that people might not be contacted in an accessible way about their appointments.

听

Lambert

We are talking to the government about how the information鈥檚 going to go out about the vaccinations and really raising how important the Accessible Information Standard is and how it can actually help them because it should mean that people鈥檚 communication preferences are recorded on their records, in which case they should be able to send out invitation letters and information in that way.听 What we鈥檙e saying to government now is you need to go back to the GPs and identify those groups of people who, because of the Accessible Information Standard, they鈥檝e registered that they have particular communication needs and take that group of people out of the list of people you鈥檙e communicating with for the big vaccination centres and communicate with them directly and ask the GPs to do that because I think, you know, as we鈥檝e heard from our GP, communication with your GP is probably going to work more effectively.

听

White

The thing is if that was working and had been working over the four years since it was introduced then we鈥檇 be kind of ready to do that wouldn鈥檛 we because I鈥檓 sure there are some GP practices who do it but there are an awful lot who don鈥檛.

听

Lambert

Implementation of the Accessible Information Standard is patchy, we would agree there, but we do have an opportunity with the vaccination where people have registered that they need things in a particular format for the government to work closely with GPs to make sure that that information is going out in the right way.听

听

White

Right, I鈥檒l read you another statement.听 In the statement to us the Department of Health says: 鈥淲e have made information and advice about vaccines available in braille and anyone who鈥檚 visually impaired can contact their GP, if they have any further questions.听 GP practices ensure all services, including for vaccinations and testing, are accessible to all patients.鈥�

听

GP, Anshumen Bhagat, is that your experience?

听

Bhagat

For testing, no.听 The reality is, is we don鈥檛 do the test, we don鈥檛 supply the test, we have nothing to do with the testing process.听 So, number one, may be that information should be made clearer to primary care, in terms of if we are to be getting involved in testing.听 I think moving on to vaccines, primary care has been at the forefront of delivering vaccination services for as far as I can remember.听 If we talk about delivering the flu vaccine, specifically, we do it every year, we manage our housebound, we manage patients with disabilities and we do it well, it鈥檚 a very efficient, well organised service.听 When it comes to calling, we call them, every single GPs鈥� surgery.听 So, I think relying on mail, whilst it鈥檚 one way of communication, I鈥檝e found mail awfully frustrating.听 Is there a chance of this getting lost, is there a chance of it not even arriving?听 Possibly.听 So, what we do is we don鈥檛 send letters.听 We create a big list, everyone with a mobile number gets sent a text with the option to reply in the text.听 So, remember, a lot of people don鈥檛 want this vaccine and it鈥檚 interesting 鈥� whilst we can suggest that people have it, we certainly have a 20% decline rate.听 The text system gives everyone the option to partake or decline.听 And if you want to partake you call up the surgery between a particular time, every single day, and you will get booked an appointment.听 Anyone that doesn鈥檛 have a mobile, or is visually impaired, they鈥檙e all highlighted on our system and we are able to identify or highlight the person鈥檚 file on the notes that it鈥檚 clear to everyone that looks on it that there is a communication need.听 So鈥�

听

White

So, let me just pin you down on this 鈥� you鈥檙e saying that you have got records of what a visually impaired person鈥檚 choice would be about the way they were communicated 鈥� whether it be on the phone, whether it be by email 鈥� are you saying you can do that, that you can definitely get 鈥� guarantee 鈥� that that would happen?

听

Bhagat

Hundred percent.听 So, if it鈥檚 all coded on the patient鈥檚 notes and an alert comes up, once you actually go into that patient鈥檚 record that this person has a visual impairment.听 You then have their communication preferences.听 So, if there are emails on the system, great, if there are mobile numbers, great.听 But we do have to filter down from there as well in that we do then call everybody that hasn鈥檛 replied on the text or that doesn鈥檛 have a mobile number.听 It is all about having the right processes in place which primary care does.

听

White

Right.听 There鈥檚 a lot here to take in.听 I want to leave people with one clear bit of advice.听 What would you say to people, because some people are hearing don鈥檛 ring your GP鈥檚 surgery, you will be contacted in due time, but if, like Brian, you鈥檙e thinking if a letter arrives I won鈥檛 see it or maybe I want hear the phone, is it alright to ring your GP and say I鈥檓 visually impaired, what鈥檚 happening?

听

Bhagat

I don鈥檛 think there鈥檚 any harm in ringing your GP鈥檚 surgery and asking for information, that鈥檚 exactly kind of what we鈥檙e here for.听 We鈥檙e all aware of the order of the vaccination, so we鈥檙e all aware that we鈥檝e got to get our over 90s, our over 80s, frontline carers, staff, care home 鈥� this is the sort of priority at this stage and different areas are in different stages of dealing with this priority.听 Then we go down five years at a time.

听

White

But don鈥檛 be afraid to call, that鈥檚 what you鈥檙e saying?

听

Bhagat

Not at all, not at all, not at all, that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e here for.

听

White

I want to go back, just, we鈥檙e really running out of time, I want to go back very quickly to Brian and Olav, just to see, you鈥檝e listened to that 鈥� any comments, suggestions, perhaps something from your own experience?听 Olav, if I can come to you first?

听

Erinson

Yeah, can I say, in Redbridge, the wellbeing team is teamed up with the sensory team and the idea is the sensory team would use their mobile phone number and email address to book a test.听 The test goes to the sensory team who can then deliver it to the people who wanted it and collected it afterwards.听 And the wellbeing team have said if people need help on the ground, for example, box opening and recording the number they鈥檒l deal with that on a case-by-case basis.听 And then the kit goes back.

听

White

Brian Matthews, from what you鈥檝e heard what would you say, really, about the best way to approach this now?

听

Matthews

I鈥檓 still concerned about how visually impaired people are going to 鈥� travelling long distances in the current climate and getting around places that are very unfamiliar and having to queue.

听

White

Sarah Lambert, one piece of key advice?

听

Lambert

We鈥檝e got some advice on our website to kind of give you information about what to expect with the test.听 We鈥檙e also working on audio and braille instructions for the test as well, so they鈥檒l be coming shortly.听 And then in terms of the vaccine we鈥檙e recommending to government that the vaccines happen in GPs rather than the big testing sites.

听

White

Okay.听 It鈥檚 a work in progress, I think.听 Thank you very much to Sarah Lambert, Brian Matthews and Olav Erinson and indeed to GP Dr Anshumen Bhagat.听

听

Just one more quick thing before we go.听 If you鈥檝e been listening regularly, you鈥檒l know all about the on/off provision of physical guidance for visually impaired passengers on the London Underground and also at their overground stations.听 It was off, then it was on, then it was off again, guess what, Transport for London now tell us that from 27th January it鈥檚 on again.听 We鈥檙e not clear what evidence is guiding these changes of heart, we鈥檙e still trying to find out.

听

Do let us know what you think about anything you鈥檝e heard in the programme and any of your experiences of covid testing and vaccinations, you鈥檙e guiding the agenda.听 Our email is intouch@bbc.co.uk and you can also go to our website for additional information or to hear tonight鈥檚 and past programmes.听 From me, Peter White, producer Mike Young and studio managers, Sue Stonestreet and Chris Hardman.听 Goodbye.