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IN TOUCH – The Lives of Youngsters

TX:Ìý 04.01.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý New Year new voices.Ìý We wanted to start 2022 specifically with the views of young people on the kinds of issues which have always been the concern of In Touch – education, jobs, relationships.Ìý So, we were delighted to discover that in Scotland a youth forum has recently reformed, after a lull because of covid, to do exactly that.Ìý It’s called, intriguingly, Haggeye – we’ll find out why in a moment – but first, let’s meet three of its members – Kerry, Reece and Eilidh – and in the best traditions of In Touch, let’s get you all to introduce yourselves and just tell us a bit about yourselves.Ìý Kerry, if we could start with you?

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Kerry

I’m from East Kilbride, I’m 17 and my visual disability condition is albinism with nystagmus and photophobia.Ìý

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Reece

My name’s Reece and I’m from Aberdeenshire.Ìý I’m 23.Ìý My eye condition is called optic nerve hyperplasia, that means I’m completely blind and I’ve been blind since birth.

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Eilidh

I’m Eilidh, I’m from Aberdeen, I’m 20 years old and my visual impairment is retinitis pigmentosa and ocular motor apraxia.

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White

And you’re all members of the Scottish Youth Forum or Haggeye, so Kerry, go on then, explain to me about that – why the name, what does it mean?

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Kerry

I’m pretty sure it’s about like because it’s haggis, because it’s Scottish, we decided to involve that in some way.Ìý But it’s basically a community of sorts for young people within Scotland who have visual impairments.Ìý It’s tailor focus to us campaigning for our rights and voices to be heard whilst also having a very good social sector so other visual impaired people can talk to each other and communicate.

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White

Okay.Ìý So, tell me, Eilidh, for example, what are the kinds of things that get Haggeye going?Ìý I mean Kerry, there, said it was a campaigning group, so what are the big issues as far as you’re concerned?

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Eilidh

The biggest campaign we work on is awareness.Ìý People are more understanding if they’re aware of how to help a visually impaired person.Ìý But also, we’ve done campaign, in the past, involving buses.Ìý So, we did a campaign with Stagecoach where we swapped places with them, so they were blindfolded and they had to get on the bus.

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White

So, what are the things people do wrong?

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Eilidh

When you ask for – can you please tell me when it’s my stop – the bus drivers forget and I mean that’s very easy to forget but it’s something we really rely on.

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White

And it’s very frustrating, isn’t it, because you’re sitting there, you’re trying to count the stops, you’re trying to remember the turnings, traffic lights feel like stops – it’s all that kind of stuff, isn’t it?

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Eilidh

Yeah, definitely.Ìý So, getting them to go on a bus, wearing a blindfold, really helped them and help us understand how they like perceive it, through sitting in the bus driver’s seat.Ìý I have definitely seen an improvement.

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White

I’m going to ask you all about education because you’re all still in education in one form or another.Ìý Eilidh, you’re now at university studying physics but I think you’ve had a number of access problems at school.Ìý Explain the sort of things you mean.

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Eilidh

The problems kind of started when I moved to secondary school.Ìý First, my primary school asked my secondary school if I wanted my PSA with me, so they could read and scribe for me and my secondary school said no.Ìý I was a bit shocked that they said they didn’t need that and they could cope with that on their own.Ìý

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White

So, that was early on.Ìý Have there been other things as your schooling’s developed?

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Eilidh

So, it’s with technology and I had a brilliant QTVI, which is qualified teacher for the visually impaired, until I was in S4 and she was great and continued to teach me maths braille because I do science.Ìý And then she retired when I was finishing my NAT 5s and then the people who took over from her, first of all, there was three of them and they didn’t communicate with each other, so if I told one of them my iPad was broken, the next day I would have someone new and they wouldn’t know my iPad was broken.Ìý And that was really something that was frustrating.

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White

So, it was all a bit of a struggle really.

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Eilidh

Yes.

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White

Kerry, you’re in your last year at school, how have things been going for you?

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Kerry

Me and Eilidh are kind of on completely opposite sides of the spectrum in that way because I got the opportunity to choose which high school I went to.Ìý I was able to tour it where there was a specific visual impairment base and I decided to go there and I like 100% I’m so glad I made that decision.Ìý So, my high school experience is really good, I’d say, when it comes to visual impairment because the school, itself, is really supportive, like the general population.Ìý I went into first year and it was all this new equipment, there was someone for every subject in it, there’s, within the unit, teachers who have a degree in a specific subject, so then when you’re in classes if you need support then they can help you with that and you’re given a key adult, with one specific staff member to coach you alone and check up on you and give you targets.Ìý

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White

Just to make it clear, you’re in a special unit of a mainstream school, is that right?

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Kerry

Yeah, so, technically I’m just a pupil, honestly like regular people, but I’m part of the mainstream school but I’m also a part of the unit.Ìý So, then, if I have a problem or there’s accessibility where a teacher’s trying to get me to use, they would send it to the unit and then the staff member from there would adapt for me.Ìý But then, over the years, you obviously, naturally, get more independent as you become a teenager and grow up in the school.Ìý So, in first year I had a support assistant with me in every classroom and now I don’t have one at all and I’m completely electronic working, I don’t have a single jotter, there’s no point.Ìý I bring a pen but I don’t use it, I do everything electronically.Ìý And I’m now at the stage where we can skip the phase of liaising with the unit every time.

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White

That’s really interesting because you’re in a unit, as you say, where, you’re almost implying, you perhaps get the best of both worlds.Ìý And I want to bring Reece in on this because I think you’ve been both at a special school originally and in mainstream education.Ìý How would you compare those experiences?

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Reece

I would say the specialist school was probably the best.Ìý I went to mainstream primary and that was okay, I’d say like most people in primary you have someone to help you more often.Ìý Because I went to mainstream secondary for a few months but that didn’t really work out, they weren’t really understanding what I needed.Ìý I think there was too many teachers and a lot more pupils in the class, it was kind of harder for them to accommodate.Ìý And then when I went to the blind school, it was completely top of the range, you know, because they knew what they were doing all the time.

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White

So, at the end of your education, your secondary education, where were you then?

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Reece

I’m at college just now, so, yeah, it’s a mainstream college.

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White

Can I check all your attitudes really?Ìý What do you think is the ideal because this is a debate that goes on and on, this business about whether it’s better to go to a special school, a mainstream school with a unit or just be part of the mainstream?Ìý I’m going to ask you all what you think is the preferred option, if you’re able to say.Ìý Kerry, if I can start with you?

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Kerry

I would definitely say the way you described it, my situation of the best of both worlds because even though I’m a really independent learner, especially in school, so it’s one of those things that not really asking for help, I’m not really needing the support now, if I was at a mainstream school, I would 100% feel – struggle and frustrated.Ìý I wouldn’t feel supported.Ìý I’d feel supported as a teenager in high school but not as a visually impaired teenager in high school.

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White

Eilidh, what about you?

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Eilidh

Yeah, I think I would agree.Ìý At my high school we had ASN, for additional support needs, they were going to put me in there but we took the decision not to because I didn’t think that I was needing that much support.Ìý But, at the same time, I wasn’t comfortable in mainstream.Ìý So, like I didn’t fit into either of those boxes.Ìý So, I definitely think a bit of both would have been great.

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White

And Reece, I think if I read you right, you’re saying actually you think a special school has worked best for you?

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Reece

Yeah, I think so because it’s not that I can’t manage in mainstream workwise, it’s more the attitude, I think.Ìý I kind of feel now, in the college, that sometimes the support team almost like they decide when you can be independent and when you can’t.

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White

I’m just wondering where all this is leading you in terms of jobs.Ìý Can we establish what you’re all hoping to do?Ìý Eilidh, let me start with you.

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Eilidh

I don’t know for certain what I want to do.Ìý I’m doing physics at uni at the moment and I’m really into space science.Ìý My dream, dream job would be working at NASA.

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White

And how difficult is it to do a subject like physics with a visual impairment?

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Eilidh

It’s a nightmare.Ìý You have all these equations that the software I have doesn’t read out the equations in the right order to make them make sense.Ìý There’s nothing wrong with me understanding, it’s the accessibility aspect of it.

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White

So, is there usually a software solution, if you can find the right person?

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Eilidh

Yeah, usually.Ìý Maybe it’s a combination of two things.Ìý For example, right now, I’m using a technology called Fusion and it’s a combination of two old things put together to make a new thing.Ìý So, it magnifies the screen to as big as you want it or as small as you want it.Ìý But also, Fusion has something called JAWS installed with it, as well, so JAWS is a screen reader, so every time you put your mouse over something JAWS will read it out to you.Ìý Technology is great when it works.

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White

I mean, presumably, there are lots of things that you could do which would be a lot easier than what you’ve decided to do.Ìý I take it you’ve decided to do this because it’s what you really care about.

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Eilidh

Yeah, definitely, yeah.Ìý I love physics, yeah.

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White

Is it doable, do you think?Ìý Do you think you could get a job in a field as competitive as space research and space exploration?

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Eilidh

Well, I know it can be done because there are other blind people who work at NASA, which is really cool, and they have like changed the way you analyse data.Ìý Usually, you get a big screen of numbers but now they’ve turned it into sound, so depending on what numbers they are the soundwaves will change, which I think is pretty cool.

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White

And I know you’re right because we’ve interviewed somebody who worked at NASA, so they do exist and it can be done.Ìý Reece, what do you want to do?

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Reece

I don’t know yet either.Ìý I’m doing social science, just now, because it has that broad range of subject areas.Ìý It gives you a chance to try out different aspects.

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White

Well, Eilidh’s told us her dream job, go out on a limb, you never know, I mean Eilidh, there could be somebody from NASA listening who’s about to offer you a job.Ìý Reece, you must have something in your mind?

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Reece

I’d quite like to do some kind of job that would help other people.Ìý From being at the blind school, there’s a lot of people that have more complex needs, as well as a visual impairment. ÌýI kind of got quite used to that and I think maybe from that experience I’d like to kind of work in an area where I was helping those kinds of people.

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White

Kerry, either the dream job or the job that you think is most likely the one that you’re going to get?

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Kerry

I’ve just applied for university, so it’s a way away.

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White

That’s true, you’re the youngest, yeah.

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Kerry

But my number one uni course, that I’d want to get into, is public sociology and that kind of fits into me wanting to – then becoming a member of the Scottish Youth Parliament.Ìý I don’t think I want to go in the directly parliament route but I do want to have a physical concrete impact on society and the way movements and all that kind of stuff and trying to make change.

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White

I’m just wondering what you feel about the amount of help you get and I’m trying to relate the fact that you’ve got this forum and you can make these points but what you think could be done more in terms of helping people who are visually impaired into jobs, the sort of jobs you’ve been talking about.Ìý Let me just throw that at Eilidh, is that what the forum should be doing – pushing for people to get those kind of job opportunities?

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Eilidh

I definitely think so.Ìý Right now, the statistics for visually impaired people in work are one in five, which is really quite bad when you think about that.Ìý So, in Haggeye we’re helping each other to write our CVs and get a job and go for it.Ìý But also, trying to raise that number, even if we get it to one in four, I think that would be a massive achievement.

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White

Right, we’ve been very serious up till now, perhaps we should talk about a few more potentially light hearted things, although they’ve got difficulties as well.Ìý Can I be cheeky – any girlfriends, boyfriends on the scene for any of the three of you?Ìý The most confident can jump in.

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Kerry

No boyfriends to speak of.Ìý I’m concentrating on uni.Ìý Once I get into uni, I can – you know what if I get an unconditional, I’ll be like okay, let’s chill out here.

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White

That’s very responsible of you.Ìý

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Reece

I’m kind of along the same – got the same idea.Ìý Someone will come up when the time comes.

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White

Eilidh?

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Eilidh

Not at the moment, no.

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White

I just wonder how difficult or easy it is to make those kinds of contacts with a visual impairment.

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Kerry

I think now, because we’re [indistinct words] with social media, is kind of one of the things that like you can talk to anyone, if you want to.Ìý I do think, obviously, visual impairments can hold you back in the way of just meeting up.Ìý For me, that’s mainly just down to transport.Ìý But I think meeting people because it’s social media and it’s always friends friends and you get to find out who everyone is, sort of thing.

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White

So, does that actually make it easier, maybe, than it has been in the past, if that’s the way most contacts are made?

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Kerry

I’d say so.Ìý I mean I know that’s way me and my friends mostly talk, we talk over social media more than texting.

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White

And Eilidh?

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Eilidh

I think reading facial expressions is hard as a visually impaired person.Ìý That aspect of the whole dating thing is harder for us.

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White

Right.Ìý I just want to ask you a bit, certainly Eilidh and Kerry, you’re both members of the Scottish Youth Parliament, I think through Haggeye and Eilidh, you’ve actually, I think, put a motion through about guide dogs.Ìý Can you just explain about that?

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Eilidh

Yeah, I have.Ìý So, since we left the European Union guide dogs have been taking off a scheme called the Pet Passport Scheme, which allowed guide dogs to move from country to country within the EU.Ìý So, the motion is about getting the UK government and the EU to make a compromise and make a kind of similar scheme.

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White

Right and do you know how it’s going, how far it’s got?

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Eilidh

Well, I actually had a breakthrough at the start of December.Ìý I’ve been doing a lot of work with my MSP from another constituency and they talked to MPs in Westminster and there was actually a debate on it at the start of December and they have agreed to do the best they can.

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White

So, you’re already experiencing the frustrations of how long things take to get done.

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Eilidh

Yeah, definitely.

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White

Right.Ìý And Kerry, what about you, you also are a member of the Scottish Youth Parliament, have you put any propositions in or are there any things that you passionately are wanting to achieve through it?

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Kerry

Yeah, well, this is Eilidh’s second term and this is my first time at being elected.Ìý So, I went through the kind of campaign process this year, through the summer.Ìý I’m technically in the introduction phase for becoming a member and knowing what to do at a Scottish Youth Parliament.Ìý But then for Haggeye I have been doing a few things here and there.Ìý I’ve been given comments on a manifesto about the education for disabilities for young people in Scotland and that was at a UN conference and that’s actually caused a motion to be launched surrounding what I’ve said.Ìý And putting opportunities and situations, like okay this is my chance to make a change and make sure things are going to get better.

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White

That seems a very optimistic note on which to end…

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Kerry

It might change soon…

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White

Thank you so much – Kerry Burke, Reece Watt, Eilidh Morrison – thank you very much for joining in and the very best of luck for your futures, all of you.

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And that’s it for today.Ìý Your comments and views please on anything you’ve heard in the programme and indeed anything you’d like us to cover in the year to come.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk leave your voice messages on 0161 8361338.Ìý

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Jonathan Esp and Mike Smith, goodbye.