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IN TOUCH

TX:Ìý 19.04.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý The previous programme has been concentrating on political and military responses to the situation in Ukraine.Ìý But, of course, for millions of Ukrainians it’s a family or an individual decision that they have to make – do I stay and stick it out or do I go to protect myself and those close to me.Ìý And for blind and partially sighted people, such decisions are complicated by having to cope with a change in circumstances with little or no vision.

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Well, a few weeks ago, we heard from Olga Mahler who grew up and attended a blind school in Kharkiv, later moved to Australia but has returned, with her husband, to offer help to visually impaired people coming over the border into Poland.Ìý Well, when we talked to her last, she spoke movingly about her own parents, both also blind, who weren’t prepared to leave their home, where everything was familiar, difficult as the current situation is for them.

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Mahler

It takes them three days to finally find a loaf of bread.Ìý The food is scarce.Ìý They live in the outskirts and being blind, they don’t have means of safely travelling further than their direct area around them.Ìý And it’s not safe in terms of war and everything.Ìý At the moment, they are refusing to go and I’d say that’s how it will go in future because they’re saying – we will just die here, rather than suffer somewhere else.

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White

Well, we got a lot of responses to that and later on we’ll hear more about what Olga’s been doing to help people trying to cope as refugees and also catching up with how her parents are coping as well.

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But one couple who did decide that leaving Ukraine was the right thing to do for them was Denys and Olga Petrov.Ìý The Russians invaded on their daughter’s fifth birthday and Olga is expecting another baby in around three months’ time.Ìý Well about 10 days after the invasion, they moved out.Ìý I’m joined on the line by Denys and Olga.

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I want you both to tell me, really, about that decision.Ìý What were the considerations that you had to take into account when deciding whether to stay or go?

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Olga Petrov

This decision for us was a bit different because for me the main consideration was the safety of my child.Ìý But when the war started it wasn’t right away very clear how to go and I realised, the first day of the war, I realised that all my plans were not very practical because it turned out that on the roads there were enormous traffic jams and it was pretty dangerous to travel and we had no idea how to travel with all our animals because we have quite a lot of pets.Ìý And we consider ourselves responsible for them.

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White

I’m going to get you to come to that.Ìý I want to go to Denys because you made that interesting point that you looked at it very differently.Ìý Can I ask you, Denys, what your attitude was because presumably as a blind man you weren’t going to fight?

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Denys Petrov

Of course, I wouldn’t be able to fight but then, on the other hand, could be maybe some work for me as a volunteer in various fields.Ìý But then, on the other hand, as a blind person, I would be of a lot of trouble to other people who would like have to make sure that the food is delivered to me and so on and so forth.Ìý So, like I realised it was ridiculous to stay, on the one hand but on the other hand, I simply wanted to be there, it’s like irrational.Ìý The place you have sentiments for and you do not want to leave, especially like when you are forced to.

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White

Did you argue about it?

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Olga Petrov

No, not really, maybe a little but not much.

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Denys Petrov

There are considerations of safety, they were like quite clear because we couldn’t reach medical care, which was critical…

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Olga Petrov

Yes, it was getting very scary and we were not so much arguing but I remember that there was one day when, in fact, Olga Mahler wrote to me and said there were some volunteers helping blind people to leave from Kharkiv and I started crying uncontrollably because I knew I wanted to go but I was scared and I didn’t know how it was from Kharkiv not from our place.Ìý And so, I think, it was the beginning of real action for us.

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White

So, how did you go in the end?Ìý I mean how did you get to the border?

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Denys Petrov

Relative of our former neighbour, who was volunteering, he was driving back and forth to the border and he picked us up with all the animals and he brought us not to the border but to Khmelnytskyi.Ìý Then other people picked us up from there and took to Ternopil, another western city in Ukraine and then were taken by some other transport to the border.

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White

You’d better explain about these animals.Ìý Olga, how many animals are we talking about here?

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Olga Petrov

We’re talking about five cats and two middle sized dogs.

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White

Right.Ìý I mean weren’t you making things rather difficult for yourselves, they were difficult enough as it was, trying to take out five cats and two dogs?

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Olga Petrov

Yes.Ìý So, in fact, I think, one also very important points for our departure was when a Polish pen pal told me about a Facebook group where Polish people try to help Ukrainian pets and Ukrainian animals.Ìý So, before that, I couldn’t even think that somebody would allow us into their apartment or into their place with all these animals.Ìý And so, we were rather thinking about maybe finding some temporary accommodation for them, maybe.

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Denys Petrov

The plan was basically to leave them behind in Poland and probably travel to Italy.

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White

But, in the end, you did take them, can you explain what happened when you got to the border?

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Olga Petrov

So, when we got to the border, we already had connections in Poland with people who were ready to help us and they picked us up from there.Ìý So, from there, it went all very smoothly and maybe it’s important, also, to mention that before we left Denys wrote a poster to this Facebook group and he got unbelievable response from the Polish people, it was like really, really huge and touching and many people offered help.Ìý So, finally, a woman offered us to stay in apartment.Ìý She had live there alone without anyone else and with our pets.

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White

The whole business of leaving like this, what did you leave behind?

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Olga Petrov

Everything.Ìý

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Denys Petrov

Yes as we were taking the animals we couldn’t take much more.Ìý So, like it was one suitcase, was just a little bit of basic clothes and a speaking thermometer, you know.Ìý Everything we had we had to leave like our house, whatever that was in the house.

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Olga Petrov

All our possessions, yes, and as our new Polish friends joke – we start a new life with one suitcase and five cats.

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White

Can I ask about work?Ìý I mean Denys do you work and what do you do?

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Denys Petrov

A very complicated question, yeah.Ìý I used to be a freelancer and I was working mainly for one platform and since they went [indistinct words] just before the war, so I was like starting to look for a new job when it all happened and now I continue to do it in Poland but so far not too much success which is like very unfortunate because we cannot stay here for free forever.Ìý There are many refugees here, so the jobs are really hard to find but for somebody with disabilities you multiply it, you know.

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White

And I guess the other factor, Olga, is that you’re pregnant, there’s a new baby on the way as well.

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Olga Petrov

Exactly, yes, so that’s also financially a strain even in the best circumstances, right?Ìý So, it’s not very easy and then all that I won’t be able to work for a month, at least, because what I do is teaching, online, teaching languages online.Ìý And I lost most of my students because of the situation because most of them were either from Ukraine or from Russia and you cannot get payments from Russia anymore and so I dropped those students as well.Ìý And as the baby arrives, I understand that I will have to make a break in my work anyway.

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White

Now only a few days ago, there were signs that some people were gradually moving back to Ukraine, now since then, of course, attacks have become more frequent again and more widespread.Ìý What’s your own view?

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Denys Petrov

The process hasn’t stopped, I mean, yes, the attacks are more severe but people are still going back.Ìý Like one of our neighbours, we heard from today, she returned.Ìý And Kyiv as it is, it is more or less safe, the only thing there are too many mines around…

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White

And Olga, what about you, given what you said about your reasons for leaving in the first place?

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Olga Petrov

I think about it a lot and it’s very complicated, so really I don’t have a clear picture in mind and I try not to think about the future because I don’t know where I want to be anymore and I don’t know what my life will be like anymore.Ìý I can’t imagine it here, I can’t imagine it there either, so I’m concentrating on having the baby in July and that’s the main thing that I’m going to do right now, the rest will come later, I guess.

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White

Well, Olga and Denys Petrov, we can only wish you the very best of luck, particularly good luck with the baby, Olga and thank you both for talking to us.

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Well, Olga Mahler, who we heard briefly from earlier, has been in Poland for the past several weeks, helping those coming over the border.Ìý Well, she’s been bringing me up to date with what she’s been up to.

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Mahler

So, since we talked last, the flow of refugees trying to find home in another country actually slowed down.Ìý A lot of people have found their temporary home, whether it was in Poland or Sweden, and we were actually starting to look for another project.Ìý But we didn’t have to wait too long.Ìý Back in high school I went to America as an exchange student and the family host sister was also blind and her name is Laurel Wheeler.Ìý Laurel has started a charity – Laurel Wheeler Foundation – that provides blind people in Eastern Europe with assistive technology.Ìý It could be braille displays, laptops, phones, even canes or braille papers, anything really.Ìý We’ve been able to purchase 50 second-hand laptops in the wonderful condition.Ìý We’ve also purchased around 20 smartphones and Laurel actually visited personally us in Warsaw and she brought with her some second-hand braille displays, magnifiers, a lot of canes.Ìý So, we’ve been running, like crazy, distributing all this stuff to blind people but it made a really, really big difference.

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White

Is this really for blind people who’ve come out of Ukraine but have come in a hurry, haven’t been able to bring their stuff?

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Mahler

Absolutely.Ìý So, I am not exactly sure why the reason is but most Ukrainians have desktops, so a laptop here was really a saving tool for them because a lot of them continue online work, online schooling, at university, at actual high school.Ìý And without a laptop it was not really possible.Ìý People were telling me horrible stories how they were trying to submit assignments, typing them on their smartphone, so it was life changing.

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White

So, it sounds as if quite a lot of blind and partially sighted people have come out of Ukraine, do you have any idea how many?

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Mahler

Oh that will be hundreds.Ìý But we were able, also, to help blind Ukrainians who were misplaced and moved from Eastern Ukraine to western part of Ukraine.Ìý In fact, my husband, regardless of my plea not to, made a trip from Poland to Ukraine to deliver some very valuable equipment.Ìý Laurel’s foundation has purchased for Ukrainian blind journalist a braille printer and not only that, my husband, also, was able to send two large parcels to my parents in Kharkiv, who are still there.Ìý It’s a bit of a miracle on its own, their story, in terms of us being able to help them, at least with some food and clothes because you’re actually not able to send from Poland to their address in Ukraine because all the parcels that arrive by the only courier who is able to deliver parcels to the area where they live, everything that arrives is considered as humanitarian aid, nothing gets delivered to any particular address.Ìý So, just on a few hours’ notice, we were able to send my parents a large barrel of cheese and huge salami and when my mother received that she said – I forgot what salami even smells like, [indistinct words] tastes like – because so only foods that they were able to get was humanitarian aid from the West.

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White

Are they still determined to stay in Ukraine?

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Mahler

They are, they are determined to stay in Ukraine.Ìý They said we would rather die here and they are even joking about it, they said – well, look, now you’ve sent us new underwear and socks, we will not be embarrassed to get buried in it.

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White

Just one more question Olga.Ìý How many people have come over the border and how many blind people, how are they finding places to live?

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Mahler

That is one of the most difficult questions and something that blind people need help with.Ìý So, as an example, we developed a close relationship with one particular group, I have very soft spot for little children, especially if they’re visually impaired and so, we found one group, here, not far from Warsaw, in Laski in the blind school.Ìý There is a group of Ukrainian visually impaired and blind children, different ages, with their mothers and they are staying there and attending classes at that blind school.Ìý But they are living in a sort of like, I would call it, a school hotel.Ìý And we were told that unfortunately, after the school year finishes, they are not able to stay there anymore, even though the conflict, obviously, is not going to end in a hurry and the children will need to continue attending the school.Ìý So, they’re happy to provide, continue providing, education but they are not able to continue providing accommodation.Ìý Basically, the Polish government, they have provided financial assistance to hosting families for every refugee but only for two months.Ìý And the government, of course, can’t afford it but also they’re trying to motivate you to get a job.Ìý But if you are visually impaired, if you’re blind, it’s not that easy.Ìý

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I fear that soon the war in Ukraine will disappear from headlines, people will forget about it but the problem will remain and people will need just as much help in a few months as they are now or as they were a month ago.Ìý So, my husband and I are planning to come back at the end of November.Ìý But it’s just two of us, right?Ìý I don’t underestimate the amount of help that one or two people can provide, we’re all just pieces in the puzzle you know, we all play a role but I just hope that there will be more significant help provided to those people in need, I really – I really hope so.

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White

Olga Mahler.Ìý And we’ll certainly be trying to keep in touch both with Olga and the Petrov’s.

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And that’s it for today.Ìý We welcome your emails, of course, intouch@bbc.co.uk.Ìý You can leave voice messages on 0161 836 1338 or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can download tonight’s and past editions of the programme.Ìý From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Mike Smith and Mark Ward, goodbye.