成人论坛

Two people who share a common experience meet for the first time. Each has a gift for the other - an object that unlocks their story. With the help of presenter Catherine Carr, they exchange personal experiences and uncover the differences between them.

Jeremy Schwartz and Alex Murray both achieved high status in their careers - Jeremy as a chief executive for major companies, Alex as a senior officer in the Royal Marines.

In their encounter, the two men explore what status has meant to them throughout their lives, how it affects their identity and what the consequences are of walking away from it or chasing it.

Jeremy describes how his father鈥檚 refugee experience shaped his attitude towards success. His father escaped the Nazis in Vienna and came to London. Seeing the gap 鈥痓etween 鈥痶he status his father was capable of achieving 鈥痑nd 鈥痺hat he 鈥痑ctually 鈥痑chieved in the UK 鈥痺as a driving force in Jeremy鈥檚 own life: 鈥�鈥淚 had a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I saw 鈥痶he pursuit of status as important.鈥� 鈥疕e enjoyed success in management at major brands such as L鈥橭real, Coca Cola, Sainsburys and The Body Shop. His marketing talent helped shape some of the most effective brands of the past 30 years.鈥�

For him, status is a complex blend of wealth, power and respect. But, in his 50s, Jeremy left his last CEO role and has not been able to secure a job at that level since. He reveals how the loss of that title or 鈥�鈥渃alling card鈥� 鈥痟as a profound effect on self worth. But in the end, it鈥檚 made him reflect on the value of status:鈥� 鈥淚n the end it is about the impact you can make in life.鈥濃��

Alex Murray left the Royal Marines with rank and kudos, but life outside the military was a struggle. He could not find fulfilment in the corporate world but was trapped by his expectations of money and status: 鈥�鈥淚 just thought that someone with my background and what I鈥檇 done ought to be earning a certain amount. It took 10 years to realise you only have one shot at this life, and you need to make it count.鈥濃��

His鈥� wife saw a job in the prison service advertised in the paper. 鈥淵ou鈥檙e good at looking after lads,鈥� she said. 鈥疕e 鈥痑pplied and 鈥痝ot it. 鈥疕e鈥檚 now 鈥痵tudying for a Masters in running prisons alongside doing this job.鈥� Alex says he had to 鈥痝et over 鈥痺anting the status of a highly paid career and accept that true satisfaction for him lies in a job without high status: 鈥�鈥淚 just wanted to do something where I could feel like I was making a difference.鈥�

Presented by Catherine Carr
Produced by Charlotte Pritchard

A Loftus Media production for 成人论坛 Radio 4

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