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IN TOUCH 鈥� Hotel Stays with a Guide Dog; The Great Escape

TX:听 09.04.2024听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听听听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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Music

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White

Good evening.听 For many of us that鈥檚 all you need to hear to be caught up in the excitement and ultimately the horror of The Great Escape, the film without which no Christmas TV schedule is complete.听 Later, we鈥檒l be hearing why one blind woman felt compelled to visit the place where it all began.

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But first, a story which caused a storm of protest on social media, which suggests that the battle for relaxed access with your guide dog to public places is far from won.听 Dave and his guide dog owning wife, Karen, Cloherty, wanted to book themselves into the brand-new Hampton by Hilton Hotel, Old Street, sited just a few minutes鈥� walk from Moorfields Eye Hospital, where Karen has her annual appointment with her eye specialist.听 Very convenient, you鈥檇 think, and yet, when they went to make the booking, they were in for a nasty shock.

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I鈥檝e been talking to Dave and Karen.听 I started with Dave because he was the one who tried to make the booking.听 He told me what happened.

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Dave

I did make the booking online in the middle of the week.听 As a courtesy, I don鈥檛 normally do it, but as a courtesy to the hotel, I thought they might give us a ground floor room or something, I mentioned that we had a guide dog.听 It came Saturday afternoon and a message came to me, because I made the booking through booking.com, there was a message there saying 鈥� Oh, sorry, we can鈥檛 accept your guide dog.听 I got on the phone to the hotel, finally got through to somebody, and they confirmed that this is right, 鈥溾��our policy is that we don鈥檛 accept service animals.鈥澨� And I said, 鈥淵eah, but surely, the 2010 Equality Act supersedes that?鈥澨� And she was adamant, she said no, no.听 She ended up, she gave me the email address of her manager.听 I sent an email, didn鈥檛 receive anything but I did converse with him through booking.com and we had a conversation.听 It was anonymous at first, whoever I was chatting with were kind of towing the line and saying, yeah, yeah, that鈥檚 our policy, we don鈥檛 have dogs of any kind.听 I was angry.听 And a lot of time I鈥檓 angry when things like this occur, when people are awkward with dog, I鈥檓 angry on behalf of Karen because Karen defaults to sort of being defeated and just leave it, just leave it, no fuss.听 I tend to get irate and demand our rights are met.

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White

Let鈥檚 have Karen speaking for herself.听 I mean how did you feel about this and has this kind of thing happened to you before?

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Karen

I haven鈥檛 had direct refusal to a hotel before, I have been asked to pay additional costs for cleaning, which I was slightly flabbergasted at, however, I鈥檝e never had a complete refusal and I was really flabbergasted.听 And also, I think, the thing that upset both of us is the hotel is just so close to Moorfields, do they not expect this, do not they not expect that somebody with a guide dog would book in.

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White

What did you do in the end, Karen, did you make the booking?

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Karen

Well, we didn鈥檛 make the booking with that hotel.听 We have now booked with another hotel.听 But actually, you know, after the visit to Moorfields we鈥檒l be going on to another hotel, so we don鈥檛 have the drive to Devon back on the same evening.听 And when I was booking that hotel, I then felt at great pains to explain on email that I will be accompanied by my guide dog, who is clean, calm, quiet, fully trained and thought, actually, why am I doing this.听 I did feel I had to really press the point, as opposed to just saying 鈥� by the way, I鈥檓 attending with my guide dog.

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White

Right, Dave, you took this to a guide dog group on Facebook, I gather there was quite a large reaction.

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Dave

Yeah, yeah, there was.听 I couldn鈥檛 keep up with the messages at one point.听 It was very, very supportive, as you would expect.听 I鈥檝e since had an apology from the manager, who said, oh no, you know, this is wrong, it鈥檚 wrong what鈥檚 on the site.听 That same afternoon, that I got the apology, when was this, it was the other day, I can鈥檛 keep up with it, I looked on the site and it still said 鈥榥o service animals allowed鈥�.听 Apparently, it鈥檚 been changed since.

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White

Well, let me stop you there because since all this happened and following the online uproar it caused, the Old Street hotel has updated its website, as you say, it now says: 鈥淪ervice support animals welcome.鈥澨� And 鈥淪ervice animals only鈥� under their pets鈥� policy.

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Well, we did invite a representative of Hampton by Hilton hotels onto the programme, indeed we urged them to participate in an interview, they declined our invitation but we have been sent the following statement by the Old Street hotel鈥檚 manager.听 The statement has been voiced by a member of our team:

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Hampton by Hilton hotel statement

We are deeply sorry for any concern, distress and inconvenience caused by the inaccurate information on our website.听 Hampton by Hilton London Old Street is a new hotel and a genuine mistake was made during the initial set up process in the hotel policy section.听 Although we do not accept house pets, we do, of course, accept guide dogs, as well as any other service animal.听 As soon as we received the information, we updated the content on our website.听

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Being a newly opened hotel, some new employees used the incorrect information provided on our website rather than reconfirm our policies.听 Again, a genuine human error.听 All staff have been appraised as to the correct position, so this issue should not arise again.

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We are in contact with the guests involved and have made the effort to explain the situation and the action we have taken.听 We have reassured them that our hotel policy is inclusive of guide dogs.

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So, what is the legal position and how could this have happened in the first place?听 Well, Chris Fry is a disability rights lawyer who works regularly with the organisation Disability Rights UK.听 Chris, first of all, just explain, in as simple language as you can, what the law on this actually says.

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Fry

The law is in a consumer setting:听 A service provider is obliged to make reasonable adjustments for service users who have protected characteristics, in this case disability.听 And that鈥檚 according to the Equality Act 2010.听 It鈥檚 not necessarily that the service provider needs to know specifically the nature of a service user鈥檚 disability before a booking but they are required to anticipate that there will be people who have particular needs and to have policies that draw flex according to suit those.听 So, what鈥檚 really interesting here is that this is a hotel bang opposite Moorfields Eye Hospital, so it could reasonably be anticipated that there will be customers there who would probably have sight loss and may well have assistance or service dogs.听 The existence of customers needing these adjustments shouldn鈥檛 be a surprise.

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White

Can I just interrupt you there because I mean that鈥檚 the point, isn鈥檛 it, reasonably adjustments is a bit of a vague term in a way, I鈥檓 just wondering, you know, how much room for manoeuvre does this give places like hotels who, presumably, can claim things like 鈥� well, some people don鈥檛 like dogs 鈥� all that sort of thing.

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Fry

Well, when it comes to guide dogs, in particular, there鈥檚 really not very much wiggle on this.听 I mean a guide dog is essentially, what鈥檚 called, an auxiliary aid in a legal setting, it鈥檚 a bit like having a wheelchair or needing a British Sign Language interpreter, in terms of being something that鈥檚 necessary as a result of a disability.听 So, it would be extraordinary for an organisation these days to refuse access to something that鈥檚 necessary by virtue of a protected characteristic or a disability.听 So, the reasonable adjustments duty, yes, sometimes it can be stretched, sometimes I鈥檓 involved in stretching it but in this situation it鈥檚 fairly clear cut, I think.

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White

Perhaps the most extraordinary thing about this whole thing is the comment made both verbally and originally on the website, that this was hotel policy.听 I mean is there any justification for a statement like this, given the state of the law, as you鈥檝e described it?

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Fry

No, not really, especially in terms of a multinational corporation like this particular hotel chain.听 What鈥檚 extraordinary, in particular, is that they appear to have allowed a new branch or subsidiary or an agent or a franchisee to apply a policy which is not, apparently, in keeping with the national or the multinational company鈥檚 organisation.听 So, the hotel chain itself needs to be careful about the way it鈥檚 onboarding franchisees or agents, they are still responsible for them in law and if they get it wrong, like they did, in my view, in this case, then they are responsible and they鈥檙e responsible for properly regulating essentially their franchisees.

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White

Now that they have apologised and updated the website, in cases like this, I mean is there still any kind of redress?

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Fry

Yes, there is, so most of the cases I鈥檓 engaged with are about changing policies and the Equality Act gives the courts the ability something called injunctive relief.听 So, the court can compel an organisation to change its website, to change its policies and to reflect what the law is under the Equality Act.听 And that鈥檚 mainly what people want, it鈥檚 about changing and improving lives for the better, not just for them but for lots of other people.听 But there is also a compensation element to it.听 In a case called Vento and West Yorkshire Police sets the compensation tariff, if you like, for, what鈥檚 called, injury to feelings awards and for the distress and inconvenience caused by that.听 So, these sorts of situations can very quickly get very expensive for service providers that don鈥檛 take their equality duties seriously.

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White

I just want to go back, finally, to Karen.听 I mean some people may say 鈥� okay, but they鈥檝e held up their hands, they鈥檝e admitted that they鈥檝e made a mistake, can鈥檛 you leave it at that 鈥� what鈥檚 your reaction to that?

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Karen

I鈥檓 really pleased that they have changed their policies.听 However, when you鈥檙e put in a position of being refused actually it really takes your confidence away, you find that actually, whether it鈥檚 booking a hotel, entering a shop, calling for a cab, any new service that you engage with, actually it really does kind of make you stop and hesitate before you just take that path without thinking.

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White

Dave and Karen Cloherty and Chris Fry, thank you all very much indeed.

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And from access to hotels to access to voting.听 With local elections now just over three weeks away, a reminder that voters are now required to produce photographic ID at polling stations.听 To counteract concerns that some visually impaired and other disabled people may have less access to such photo ID, as driving licences for example, the range has been widened and can include, say, concessionary travel passes like bus passes.听 But if you have no photo ID you can now get a free voter authority certificate.听 You do need to apply before 5.00 pm on 24th April.听 You can apply online or by completing a paper form and sending it to your local council鈥檚 electoral services team but you can also ask for help by calling the Electoral Commission helpline on 0800 328 0280, that鈥檚 0800 328 0280.

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Music 鈥� The Great Escape

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Now, those notes again, immediately conjuring up for many of us Stalag Luft III, the grim Nazi prisoner of war camp where The Great Escape was meticulously planned.听 Seventy-six allied air force prisoners got out, only three got home, 50 were shot in cold blood against all international rules of war.听 Most of us have been content to follow the gripping film but one blind woman, Sangeeta Uppaladinni, has always wanted to go to the camp and this year, complete with guide dog, yes, guide dogs again, she joined those who went to Poland to mark the 80th anniversary of the great escape.听 She told me about her fascination with the film and the event on which it鈥檚 based.

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Uppaladinni

When I was nine years old, my late father sat me down and we watched The Great Escape film together.听 I was fascinated, I was hooked and even more so when my father told me that it鈥檚 based on a true story.听 So, I made it my mission, my sole mission, to research the facts.听 But what I learnt does not truly represent what I saw in the film.听 You can get the gist of the story from the film but the true facts are even more horrific and it鈥檚, sort of, a test to human courage and bravery.听 And I was so drawn, not just to the great escape, I felt sort of very spiritually drawn to Squadron Leader Roger Bushell, who represented Britain because he was the mastermind of the great escape.听 And everyone there in that camp were flight lieutenants of high calibre but this one man was able to plan and entice and actually delegate his comrades from different nationalities.听 I would imagine there were at least 23 other nationalities or so and that was really, you know, a feat in itself.

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White

So, does discovering that there are actually differences between the film and the truth, does that spoil it for you at all?

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Uppaladinni

It spoilt it because I know that when films are made for the viewership there鈥檚 got to be an entertainment value to it.听 Like, for example, Steve McQueen riding that motorbike, that motorbike wasn鈥檛 even invented in that day and age.听

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White

Right, but I suppose the story itself is so gripping, both the film and the truth, that, in a way, the spirit of the thing was accurate, wasn鈥檛 it, as far as the great escape, yeah.

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Uppaladinni

Yes, if you watch the film, it gives you a gist because it was true that, you know, how that claustrophobia the POWs experienced in the tunnel, in Tunnel Harry, that was true to fact.听 And there were cave ins and everything.听 And it was so humbling to be at the presence of the exit of Tunnel Harry.

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White

Is that where you were actually standing when you went to the anniversary?

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Uppaladinni

Yes.听 Two years ago, I made the trip on my own but it was more expensive because I had to hire so many different people to guide me there, drive me there.听 And I just had a guide dog at the time but, you know, we had yet to form a bond and trust between the two of us, so it was more complicated two years ago.听 But now with my guide dog, who is with me in Poland right now, I鈥檝e got the flexibility of mobility with my guide dog beside me.听 And it was a first to even fly with my guide dog, going through all the post-Brexit rules and regulations of getting an animal across into Europe.听 But I faced the challenge because, for me, it was a pilgrimage.听

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And going back to Squadron Leader Roger Bushell, two years ago when I went there, I met the custodian, who loves over the POW camp and the museum, a lovely guy called Ma艡铆k Lazars [phon.] and he鈥檚 a Czechoslovakian, there鈥檚 no fact about the great escape he doesn鈥檛 know, so he filled in a lot of gaps for me.听 I told him 鈥� Why do I feel such a kinship with Squadron Leader Roger Bushell?听 And Ma艡铆k told me, he said, he pointed to my eyes and said 鈥� Did you know that Squadron Leader Roger Bushell suffered some horrific eye injuries due to a skiing accident and every time he was incarcerated in some POW camp, he kept trying to escape, so finally, Hitler told him that the next time he escapes his card is marked and he got a thorough beating, as well, which worsened his eyesight.听 So, he was visually impaired with that visual impairment he actually did all this.

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White

So, that makes the kinship even greater.听 Tell me, Sangeeta, has this trip lived up to your expectations because you鈥檝e obviously staked a lot on it?

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Uppaladinni

Yes, absolutely.听 It鈥檚 totally self-funded because, for me, it鈥檚 a personal pilgrimage and it鈥檚 taken a lot of courage, I鈥檝e gone through several degrees of anxiety.听 And what I experienced yesterday at the Stalag Luft III, this was the 80th anniversary, the British Ambassador to Poland gave a lovely speech and also, the Mayor of Zagan and also I met the British Army Chief, the American Army Chief.听 I felt in such presence of kinship.听 There were people represented from all nationalities from those countries where they had the POWs, you know, incarcerated in this POW camp.

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White

Sangeeta Uppaladinni.

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And that鈥檚 it for today but an apology.听 Last week, we said that we鈥檇 be covering improvements in the administration of the Disabled Students Allowance but a couple of other items have meant, I鈥檓 afraid, we鈥檝e postponed that for this week but I promise we鈥檒l be returning to the Disabled Student Allowance in a fortnight鈥檚 time.听

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Jack Morris, goodbye.