³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

12th May 2022
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast
Access All Pilot – Episode 3

Presented by Emma Tracey and Nikki Fox
Nikki-
You ran a kids’ party?
Emma-
Well, I had my son’s party, which was a riot.
Nikki-
Wow.
Emma-
15 very excitable seven year old boys basically.
Nikki-
Amazing. And I’m guessing this is your kid. How many kids have you got? 
Emma-
Two boys, seven and four. Very active. Fully sighted. Because every single person asks me or wants to know, at the bottom of my heart they want to know whether my husband is blind – yes he is, well he’s not, he’s visually impaired; whether my children are blind – no they’re not, they’re fully sighted. Now everybody knows and everyone can be happy with that knowledge. 
Nikki-
I was not going to ask you that question Emma, I promise. 
Emma-
But did you think it?
Nikki-
I didn’t actually. I honestly didn’t think it. 
Emma-
°Â±ð±ô±ô.Ìý
Nikki-
Maybe it’s just because I’m thinking of other podcasts that we’ve got to do in a minute, but no.
Emma-
But when I had the kids it was just on everybody’s list, do you know, it was very clear that people were kind of interested to know whether we’d passed on our dodgy genes to our children. 
Nikki-
Do you know, I was thinking, I wonder whether people think that when I talk about my fella; I wonder whether they think whether he’s disabled or not. He’s not, but I wonder whether people think that. 
Emma-
And how do you feel about the fact that he’s not disabled? Are you quite pleased with yourself that he’s not disabled? 
Nikki-
That I’ve bagged a non-disabled?
Emma-
Yeah, I’ve managed to bag a non-disabled fella.
Nikki-
Look who bagged a non-disabled, Nikki Fox. No, I haven’t ever dated somebody with a disability. I wouldn’t discriminate. You fall in love with who you fall in love with, don’t you?
Emma-
You do. 
Nikki-
I mean, practically it makes life a lot easier, I’m not going to lie, that he’s a gardener and he’s very strong and I am physically disabled. So, it does make my life a lot easier, I’m not going to lie. 
Emma-
Yeah. I mean, Robin is my person and I love him to infinity beyond and back, but I did always think that I would end up with someone who could drive. 
Nikki-
Yeah. Just to help everything a bit, yeah. 
music-
Theme music. 
Nikki-
This is Access All. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m in London. 
Emma-
And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh.
Nikki-
Oh it’s nice to be back. Thank you so much for all your messages. We’re going to be looking at some of those later. First we are talking rail platform falls. Now, a recent incident where a blind man fell off a train platform and was killed by an oncoming train has brought to light the fact that blind people fall off platforms when catching public transport more often than previously understood. You might have heard the shocking story of Cleveland Gervais who was hit by a train after falling from a platform at Eden Park station in London. Now, the inquest into his death, which finished last week, ruled it was an accident. But the judge said that a lack of tactile pavement on the platform had contributed more than minimally to his death. Now, Emma can you tell us more about Cleveland?
Emma-
Cleveland was 53, he was from Trinidad and Tobago but lived in London with his partner, Sekha Hall for almost 20 years. Sekha says he was hugely full of fun, had lots of friends, wanted to help everybody and absolutely loved dancing and the dance floor. 
Nikki-
Now, years ago I wouldn’t have a clue what tactile paving was, and the judge mentioned it. what is it and what’s it used for, Emma?
Emma-
Essentially tactile paving is a textured strip of ground that lets you know that an edge is close. So, it’s usually used by blind people, we feel it through our feet, and when we get to it we know to react, do something to stop ourselves falling down some steps, off a train platform or going into the road from a road crossing. 
Nikki-
And is there a legal obligation to have tactile paving on platforms? 
Emma-
Network Rail don’t think so. But the government did publish guidance on the use of tactile paving in 1998, so nearly a quarter of a century ago. And they reviewed that last year and upheld it. The guidance is around what type to use, where and when it should be used. 
Nikki-
Right. Now, the rail accident investigation branch they wrote a report about Cleveland’s death in 2021. What did they say? 
Emma-
They recommended that the main players have a proper policy of where to put tactile paving at stations; to draw up a timetable for work to get tactile paving on every platform in the UK; and also to put some interim measures in place for stations that don’t currently have tactile. So, what they’ve been doing is they’ve been gluing some strips to platforms in the meantime. And they’ve also been putting announcements on tannoys at stations that don’t have tactile, and we can hear one of those announcements now I think. 
announcement-
Please be aware that some platforms at this station have no or only partial tactile paving on the platform edge. 
Nikki-
Like we were saying, Em, incidents with blind people on railways are more common than you’d hope. I mean, I was just listening to you and Damon, who works on the show, chatting about this when we were deciding what we were going to do this week and it really shocked me. Now, we’ve got Artur Ortago here with us this week. Hello Artur.
Artur-
Hello. How are you doing?
Nikki-
How are you? 
Artur-
Very good, very good. 
Nikki-
Well, I wish we were here under other circumstances, Artur, but I think you’ve got quite a shocking story to tell us. Can you explain what happened? I mean, I should first mention, Artur, you’re a software architect, aren’t you, with a medical company?
Artur-
Yes, I’m a soft architect. I’m blind. The incident happened almost ten years ago, it was 30th August 2012. I was on my way to work and my guide dog was guiding me along the platform and I didn’t realise how close I was to the edge because there was no tactile paving on the edge. And I slipped from the edge, fell down into the track, and while falling down I pulled my guide dog who was walking left of me. The platform was on the right, and I pulled him over. The dog got hurt, bruised on his nose and on his hip. I was lucky, I only hit my legs against the platform wall. But it was quite dramatic. But at the same time I was quite lucky as well because people started to scream. The station staff managed to switch off the electricity, because I was scared that the dog would be electrified by the live wire. It was as well in Southeastern, on New Eltham station, so very close to where Cleveland eight years after my incident died. 
Nikki-
Your dog was screaming and people were shouting. What was going through your head?
Artur-
It could have gone the other way around as well, like it happened to Cleveland. That was my first thought when I was reading about Cleveland. But the public was very helpful. After the electricity was switched off someone helped me from the public to get out. Someone helped the dog out. I went with the dog to the vet. I had to get immediately treatment. He was off duty several weeks because of the bruises he got at that time. 
Nikki-
What were your thoughts actually, Artur, when you heard Cleveland’s story eight years later? 
Artur-
I was reading about it, and I was reading as well the report about his accident and I was wondering how Southeastern could say that they weren’t aware of this kind of situation. Because if the reporting would have been right at that time when I fell into the track they should have this information in their system. 
Emma-
I spoke to Southeastern about this actually and the report on Artur’s incident wasn’t passed on to the RAIB because not all reports are, and it wasn’t in the same category. But also it said that the guide dog had run off the platform. And it actually didn’t mention a lack of tactile paving in the report at all. So,  Southeastern also passed on their condolences to Cleveland’s family. 
Nikki-
Do you find that frustrating, Artur?
Artur-
I think the interesting part for me is like we have clear guidance on this kind of tactile paving for a long time now, like 25 years. The reports are being done without talking to the actual people who actually fell into the track. And the reports are being done in a way that it’s not highlighted that the lack of compliance with these kind of very basic structures are causing a health and safety issue. They are not taking the health and safety of disabled people seriously. 
Nikki-
I’m sorry we’re talking about such an incident the first time I’ve met you, but I’m hoping we’ll speak again. But thank you so much for coming on and telling your story. We do really appreciate it. Emma, you’ve also been talking to other blind people who have had accidents at railway platforms like Artur, haven’t you? 
Emma-
I have. Almost every blind person that I’ve spoken to about this in the last few days has had some sort of train platform related accident. It can happen in any situation, any type of train. Like tram: we know Gary Thompson, who was a blind man and he died when he fell of a tram platform. Underground: we know that Chris McCarrol in Glasgow was very seriously injured when he was hit by a train in the underground in Glasgow. We know that it happens everywhere. We know that tactile paving isn’t the answer to everything; basically all over the country and in the world we need like the new Elizabeth Line in London where they have a wall that just flows back when the train arrives and the doors open so that there’s a wall between you and the train right until the doors appear, and there’s level access and everything. That’s probably going to be the safest way. But tactile paving is probably the next one back. 
Nikki-
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Emma-
So, I’ve spoken to lots of blind people about this, including ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳’s Washington correspondent, the lovely Gary O’Donoghue. 
Gary-
In fact in my case I’ve fallen off three train platforms. But actually the worst time it happened to me was on the underground in London. And it was one of the Clapham stations, I can’t remember which one it is, but one of them is an island platform and I didn’t know this. And late at night when I was heading down there about nine o’clock in the evening to do an interview and I got off the tube, walked a few steps forward to find the wall, and fell straight off the platform on the other side. When I realised where I was sort of down there on the tracks I had a brief moment worrying where the live rail was, and then I worried about trains coming, so I managed to scramble back up. And someone then came along and said would I like them to go and get my bag for me, so they hopped down and got my bag up for me, and I went on my way. I have to say I’m much more careful and worried about train platforms nowadays, particularly where there are no markings and you don’t know really where you are. You walk along it as if it’s like a tightrope, it feels like a tightrope, and you kind of feel like your next step could be that step into oblivion.   
Nikki-
I know this has happened to you. Can you go over one of the experiences that you’ve had? 
Emma-
Yes, of course it’s happened to me. Literally it’s happened to all of us. We talk about it on nights out us blind people. 
Nikki-
Oh no. 
Emma-
We go to each other when it happens to get some sympathy, because we know that the other person understands. I actually fell between the train and a platform at a tube station. And at the time, it was Hammersmith and City line at Hammersmith, and I don’t know how it is now, it was a few years ago, but you had to step up out of the tube train. So, instead of stepping up I stepped carefully down and one leg went right down into the train and the platform. Luckily a passenger came along and pulled me out before the train door closed and it left. I was a bit bruised. I was a bit sort of jittery about it. I’ve been very, very careful with gaps since then. When you’re blind it’s hard sometimes to remember which way you are. If you get down to get something out of your suitcase or something and you get up you might not remember which way you were facing. You have to be so, so careful honestly. And we are. And we have loads of strategies, but sometimes things just go wrong. 
Nikki-
This is not the answer but you can jump on the back of my mobility scooter if we’re ever together and I’ll just…?
Emma-
Well, I’d quite like to do that anyway someday. 
Nikki-
I know, okay. Now, listen, we’ve got an expert on the line from the RNIB. 
Emma-
Ooh good. 
Nikki-
Yeah. Policy office Roisin Jacklin. How are you? 
roisin-
Hi there. 
Nikki-
Thank you so much for joining us today. Now, how common is it for blind people to fall off rail platforms? Have you got any facts? 
roisin-
Yeah, unfortunately blind and partially sighted people are disproportionately at risk from falling at stations. We know that up to 15% of people who are falling from platforms are blind and partially sighted, despite representing just 3.3% of the UK’s population. 
Nikki-
That’s quite staggering, isn’t it? 
roisin-
Yeah, horrific. 
Nikki-
It really is. And obviously we’ve been talking about Cleveland Gervais’ sad death and we mentioned about some recommendation fixes. How well do you think the recommendations are being implemented?
roisin-
The recommendation was key in the RAIB report for Network Rail and the DfT to set a timetable programme to install tactile across the rail network. It’s something that we’ve been campaigning and pushing for an accelerated timeframe. We’re really pleased that there is the commitment, both from the DfT and Network Rail to get the network fully tactiled. But at the moment we’re really pushing. We need the further funding to be released from the transport minister so that Network Rail can ensure that the network is fully installed with tactile. 
Nikki-
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roisin-
We’ve heard from Network Rail that they think most of the work can be done by 2025. We need this delivered as soon as possible so that blind and partially sighted people can travel safely. 
Nikki-
Is it expensive?
roisin-
Yes, I understand, I think it’s £70 million that’s been ringfenced for the work. 
Nikki-
°¿°ì²¹²â.Ìý
Emma-
And this is for overground trains, Nikki, for England, Scotland and Wales. We’ve talked about a lot of different trains, but this is specifically for the platforms in those stations. 
Nikki-
Right okay. 
Emma-
Northern Ireland has 100% tactile on their platforms. 
Nikki-
Ah. Because I was reading, am I right Emma as well saying this, that since Cleveland Gervais’ death they have actually accelerated the number of stations that tactile paving has been implemented, is that right?
Emma-
Yeah. So, it was 50% had tactile before and 60% have tactile now. And they focused very much on stations where they know there are lots of blind passengers and big hubs like Clapham Junction. So, they’ve finished most of London, south east and Kent, and they’ve a lot more to do. 
Nikki-
Right. But they have done it quite quickly, which proves to many I would imagine that it can be done quite quickly, and that actually it shouldn’t be taking this long. 
Emma-
That’s what they’re saying, yeah. 
Nikki-
That’s the argument, yeah. We’ve got some responses here from Network Rail and the Department for Transport. I’ve got the statement here from Network Rail. They say, ‘Our thoughts are with the family and friends of Mr Gervais’. They go on to say, ‘We have around 5,500 station platforms across Britain, over 60% of which are fitted with tactile strips. We have now secured the extra funding to fit them all. We’re making progress but we know there is a lot more to do’. And the Department for Transport has said it has ‘Started the first comprehensive access audit of every station in the country as we look to greatly improve patient access safety and passenger information’. That was part of the old disability strategy, wasn’t it, the announcement of the audit? Well, thank you so much for joining it, Roisin, really appreciate it. well, I’ve learnt an awful lot actually. Thank you Emma for all your work on that. 
[Music] Now, Em, we’ve been getting lots of messages. That’s just what we want. Keep them coming. Now, Amy’s got in contact with us and she’s saying she’s trying to get her son into school later this year. The local mainstream school can’t meet his needs on the EHCP, which is the Education Health and Care Plan, a bit like the old style statements. She can’t get him in to the more appropriate special educational needs school that she wants to. She’s involving her MP, a local counsellor, doctors and all of that, but she says can you please cover this subject on the pod. Now, this is such an important subject and one that impacts so many families of young people who have got specialist educational needs, so we definitely need to look into this don’t we, Em?
Emma-
We absolutely will. It’s something that we’ve heard about forever basically and it’s something we will definitely look into. Another thing was that a lot of people wanted to help Adele from the last episode. Adele was struggling to pay for the extra energy she needed to look after her disabled daughter, Molly. And we are on to all of that behind the scenes, just to let people know. 
Nikki-
We absolutely are. We also had an email about electric loos from Alan. 
Emma-
I was talking about this last week off mic, wasn’t I, about the massive new loo in our office. I think that might be an electric loo. 
Nikki-
Ooh. Yes, do you know what, I know the one you’re talking about. Well, he asks, ‘Do you know of any hotels which have electric toilets in the UK?’ We know the Japanese are mad for them. And when we went to Tokyo a year before the Paralympics well they were everywhere. I don’t mean to brag guys but I’ve got one, I’ve gone one. Once you’ve tried one you will never, ever go back, I promise you. They are of course unbelievably extortionately expensive. So, as with everything that helps it’s expensive, but yeah. Anyway I really like this idea of people emailing us, I don’t know about you Ems, with some problems that we can maybe look into. Because we’ve got the time – I say we’ve got the time, sorry Em.
Emma-
Got the time!
Nikki-
We don’t necessarily have the time. No, we do. But this is what we’re here for. We are here, we’ve got a great team, there are people working very hard behind the scenes, and we would like to hear from you, anything you want us to look into. And if we can find a solution then brilliant, because that would make us both very, very happy. 
Emma-
Nikki, how do people get in touch with us?
Nikki-
Okay, so can you email us, that would be great people: accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a voice note on WhatsApp. Now, our WhatsApp number is 0330 123 9480, that’s WhatsApp only. So, that’s 0330 123 9480. 
Emma-
Woo! And we also want your suggestions for guests. 
Nikki-
Oh yeah, totally. We still have to Gaga. Apparently my mate who’s obsessed with her said she’s going to be touring in July or something in the UK, and we could factor it. 
Emma-
We could go to where she’s touring, wait outside, is that stalking?
Nikki-
Yeah, we might get arrested. 
Emma-
Okay, sorry. 
Nikki-
We could stalk her. On next week’s show we’ll be talking to TV presenter Aidy Smith about his new Radio 4 documentary, The Truth about Tourette’s. He is one of the only television presenters in the world with the condition, and he’s currently the face of Amazon Prime series, The Three Drinkers. And Aidy wants to stamp out the stigma, misconceptions and myths around Tourette’s. 
Aidy-
When I was a kid I actually was a child actor. So, at the age of about six and seven I had a show which was at the time on CITV and it was a kids show commissioned by Sesame Street. Life was amazing, everything was going perfectly, and then I started developing these random tics, so these twitches. And Tourette’s Syndrome is defined by tics that are either motor or vocal, and at the time I had both. So, I’d have this kind of whoop or screech, a bit of a scream, I would have this tic where I’d clap or I’d throw my head back. And this just kind of came out of nowhere and progressively got worse from the age of seven. But the problem was that in the medical world very few people knew what Tourette’s was, very few. The GP had absolutely zero idea. 
Nikki-
No!
Aidy-
And so what ended up happening was it was all put down to bad behaviour and me just being mischievous in school so I’d get told off. I’d get sent out of the room, told to stand in the corner with my hands on my head. And I was basically punished. 
Nikki-
That’s Aidy Smith next week on Access All. 
music-
Theme tune. 
Nikki-
Now, it’s mental health awareness week, and this year the focus is on loneliness. Now, even before the pandemic we knew that disabled people experience loneliness at a much higher rate than non-disabled people, didn’t we, Emma? That’s a fact, isn’t it? 
Emma-
It is a fact. In 2019, so before the pandemic, an Office of National Statistics survey said that the proportion of disabled people who felt lonely often or always was four times that of non-disabled people. 
Nikki-
Four times? 
Emma-
Uh-huh, four times. Why? 
Nikki-
The thing is with loneliness it will probably affect us all I’m sure, disabled or non-disabled, at some point in our life. And I know from friends who have experienced it quite a lot that you could be the most popular person but still be in a room full of people but still feel incredibly lonely. And we’re going to be talking more about this and we’re going to be talking about teenagers’ mental health in a while. But first we don’t often hear about mental health and people with learning disabilities. I mean, I have actually covered this for ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ News so I know a little bit about it. But Mencap are trying to remedy this issue with a campaign they’ve just launched. And here to talk about loneliness and the effect that it has, and it’s still affecting her, is the very beautiful Sophie who has Down’s Syndrome, and her equally beautiful sister Emily, who is with her. Thank you both for coming in today. It’s great that you can join us, thank you. 
Emily-
Thank you. Thanks for having us. 
Nikki-
Sophie, I watched a brilliant video with you and you were saying, please don’t call me cute. You don’t like being called cute, do you? 
Sophie-
±·´Ç.Ìý
Nikki-
Why don’t you like being called cute?
Sophie-
I think I’d rather be called sexy.
Nikki-
Sophie doesn’t like to be called cute; she wants to be called sexy. Literally that would be my motto in life. It’s brilliant. And Sophie, I wondered, you know we’ve obviously gone through the coronavirus, the pandemic, how did you feel when we were all at home? 
Sophie-
I was bored and quite lonely. And I can’t go to my day care services. I can’t see my friends. And I can’t go out anywhere. 
Nikki-
No. Because you are a party girl, aren’t you? 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
What is it you love? A sparkly dress? 
Sophie-
And some high heels. 
Nikki-
And loads of make-up?
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
I saw that in a video. So, for you going from being sociable, being with people, to then being at home, did it make you feel quite lonely?
Emily-
So, before lockdown when you could go to all your centres and you were always partying and seeing people, and then COVID happened and you were stuck at home and you couldn’t do anything, how did it make you feel? 
Sophie-
I think I was feeling quite lonely. 
Nikki-
It’s hard, especially for someone like you who’s so sociable and you like parties and you like being with friends. It must have been difficult. You seem like a very tight family, but did you notice a difference in Sophie as well?
Emily-
Yeah, I guess Sophie you live at home with mum and our stepdad, don’t you?
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Emily-
And Sophie, you were busy five days a week, so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday you were always doing something, and then Tuesday nights and then Friday night you’d have a disco. So, you were super busy. And then that all stopped, didn’t it? And I think at first it was a bit of a shock and everybody was a bit kind of worried or a bit confused, you and your friends were. And then you kind of got used to it, but you were stuck at home every day, weren’t you, because mum and stepdad still had to work lots. I live in London, Soph’s in Hull, so we were seeing each other on Zoom and Face Time every day. But you weren’t engaging with people, were you? You weren’t able to do anything. And I think you got, well you just got a bit quiet didn’t you, and a bit down, weren’t you? 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Emily-
For quite a while. 
Nikki-
Were you, Soph?
Emily-
But then what happened to us the end of the year in September, what happened that made the family all really, really sad? 
Sophie-
Yeah, I was so upset that our grandma passed away. 
Nikki-
°¿³ó.Ìý
Sophie-
And I remember I read a poem for her. 
Emily-
Yeah, you read a poem.
Sophie-
Because I was so, so close to her. 
Nikki-
I’m sorry about that though, Sophie. Some of your centres you don’t go back as much now, do you? Do you still feel a bit lonely or do you feel better? 
Sophie-
Yeah, I think I feel better. I keep doing things in house to be more occupied and busy. 
Nikki-
That’s good. 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
But you haven’t gone back to work yet, have you Sophie? Because you did have a job, didn’t you? 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
Did you love that? 
Sophie-
I did yeah. 
Nikki-
What did you do?
Sophie-
I used to work with people who had Down’s Syndrome at the nursery. 
Emma-
µþ²¹²ú¾±±ð²õ.Ìý
Nikki-
What a lovely job. What a nice job. And do you want to go back to work? 
Sophie-
Yes I’d love to. 
Nikki-
Would you? 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
Are you trying at the moment to go back to work? Is it just a bit…?
Sophie-
±«³¾â€¦
Emily-
Yeah, it’s difficult. Well, it’s different where you are in Hull, isn’t it, because a lot of those services have stopped completely because a lot of the buildings haven’t been able to afford their rent so things have just closed forever. 
Nikki-
We’ve got some stats here as well, because new figures from Mencap survey found that almost a third of people with a learning disability who responded to the survey are struggling with mental health problems and widespread loneliness. With a further 88% of families and carers saying their loved one is always or often feels sad. They’re awful stats, aren’t they? 
Emily-
±á³¾³¾.Ìý
Nikki-
We have got a doctor in the house, [singing] doctor, doctor. Not a Fox, no, no, no. Dr Krause, Nihara Krause. Hello. 
Nihara-
Hi there. 
Nikki-
How are you? 
Nihara-
I’m very well, thank you. 
Nikki-
Now, thank you very much for joining us. Nihara, am I pronouncing that correctly? 
Nihara-
Perfectly pronounced, thank you. 
Nikki-
Now, of course we have all probably experienced loneliness at some time. It’s all kind of relative, isn’t it? You’re a clinical psychologist and the founder of stem4 which is a charity that supports young people’s mental health. So, you’re in a great position to tell us whether or not you’ve noticed an increase in young people coming to you and saying that they feel lonely. 
Nihara-
Yes we have, and that increased. Young people were telling us they felt lonely before the pandemic, but post the pandemic we’ve definitely seen an increase in young people telling us that. We’ve surveyed people between the ages of 15 and 21 and they’ve all told us that they feel lonely. The pandemic has disrupted everyone’s lives. It’s not made access to connections any easier. And people have lost people. I was very moved to hear Sophie’s story. I think it’s incredibly important to share. It’s not easy to talk about loss. It’s not easy to talk about loneliness. So, it’s amazing to hear it, and absolutely respect for you. I’ve got some tips I can share for young people. 
Nikki-
Yeah, give us some tips, that’s nice. Go on, Nihara. 
Nihara-
So, what I was going to say is that not everybody is in touch with their feelings or find it so easy to know what they’re feeling. And loneliness, whilst it arises from not being able to connect with people that we love or that we’d like to spend our time with is really helped if we can understand and find ways to express our emotions. I think sometimes having a few cards that you write down what those emotions might be and what might give you a little clue into what they are is the first step. And then the next step is to try and practise being able to express those or manage those. And you can deal with those on your own, and you can also deal with them by sharing it with others. So, one of the ways to deal with it on our own – because access to people at the moment isn’t the same as it was before the pandemic – is to do what I call charging your people battery. So, charging your people battery is about what you can do whilst you wait for more people to kind of connect with you. And it changes from people to people. So, for example it might be that you want to look through some of the photographs you’ve got on your phone and think about collecting a little album so that you can remind yourself of the people who are in your life. That helps charge my battery. It might be that you want to write someone poems – it sounds as though you’re a great poem writer – so you could write some poems to people who you would like to connect with when you see them and look forward to that. So, all of those things help us to charge our people battery so that we can do that whilst we wait to connect with people in real life. 
Nikki-
Sophie, do you keep photos and look back on photos at all of your friends and family? 
Sophie-
³Û±ð²¹³ó.Ìý
Nikki-
Is that important to you? Do you need to do that? 
Sophie-
It is very important. 
Nikki-
Before I forget, I can’t forget to mention this, Sophie I heard you’ve just done a photo shoot with Cosmopolitan magazine. 
Sophie-
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Nikki-
Cosmo, how amazing is that? Can you tell, what’s that for? What are you doing? Is it for body positivity? 
Emily-
Sophie, do you want to get these so you can visualise?
Nikki-
You’ve got a copy? Oh my goodness!
Sophie-
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Nikki-
Am I seeing an early copy or is this already out? Oh Sophie, this is this week’s. Sophie, you look incredible. You look incredible and so confident. Beautiful. I’m going to pick that copy up. Well, you’re on a chair, aren’t you, and you’re just looking quite sexy in your lingerie. 
Sophie-
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Nikki-
Which is exactly what you said on the first bit, don’t call me cute, call me sexy. Well, no one could argue that, could they? Look at that. I’m going to pick that copy straight up when I leave this studio. Sophie, you’ve been incredible. Emily, amazing. And Dr Nihara, I adore you, let’s get you on again. I’m definitely, definitely going to use some of those tips. I think everyone could do with that. I think working on loneliness and mental health every day, whether you’re feeling down or not, is a good thing to do. 
Sophie-
I just wanted to thank you. 
Nikki-
Thank you for coming in. [Music] Well, that’s it, Emma. That was a packed one, wasn’t it?
Emma-
Woah, I’m reeling. It was amazing. 
Nikki-
Thank you so much for listening. Good bye. And remind me of the brilliant phrase that our Mary came up with? 
Emma-
Oh, I think this is good for Sophie actually: rock your difference. 
Nikki-
Rock your difference. We quite like it, don’t we?
Emma-
We do. 
Nikki-
Rock your difference people and we will see you next week. 
Emma-
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