³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

NIKKI- I went to the sleep apnea clinic this weekend.

EMMA- Sexy!

NIKKI- [Singing] sexy. And they gave me a device to wear overnight. It was like a massive box that went on your chest with wires that poked into your neck, and then you put these tubes up your nose, a thing on your finger, you had to gaffer tape it all down so you didn’t move. Well, I mean they’re not going to say I’ve got sleep apnea; I didn’t get a wink’s sleep, I was awake the whole time. But anyway, you had to drop the box off the following day and I said I’ve got too much work, I can’t come back, is it okay if my lovely PA Libby, who we all know very well here on the podcast, Libby could go and drop it off for me. And they said yeah, that’s absolutely fine. She came back and she was like, ‘Right Nik, I had to fill out a form for you; I hope I know you well enough’. And I was like okay. She said, ‘I've taken a screen grab’. So, we went through all the questions: do you snore? Like a wild animal. The severity: do I stop breathing in the night? Yes. I mean, she got pretty much everything right. And then she came to the section: any kind of medical conditions, health conditions whatever, disability and that? And she put everything down, right, she put that I had not just endometriosis but I had adenomyosis – I don’t know how you pronounce it. Do you know what she forgot to put down? 

EMMA- What did she forget to put down?

NIKKI- That I have muscular dystrophy.

EMMA- [Laughs] I assume muscular dystrophy has a bearing on having sleep apnea because of muscles?

NIKKI- Yes.

EMMA- But I think it’ll be funny when they look at the info without that knowledge because they’ll be like, oh my god, we need to get her in here, there’s something really wrong with her muscles!

MUSIC- Theme music. 

NIKKI- It’s Access All, the podcast about disability, mental health and everything else that’s going on in the world too. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m in London. 

EMMA- And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in the big festival city of Edinburgh, where we’ll both be in a few short weeks, won’t we Nikki?

NIKKI- Eek, I know, it’s true. You can see Emma and I live, and there are only a few tickets left, just a few. More on that later. Now, on today’s programme we’ve got a man who plays the French horn with his feet, and why some disabled people have to pay double the plane fare if they want to catch a flight.

EMMA- Please subscribe to us, hit like buttons where like buttons exist, and tell your friends to get the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Sounds app where you can get more than 63 episodes of this podcast. 

NIKKI- I can’t believe that, 63.

EMMA- Woo.

NIKKI- We need drinks for that. 

Now, we’ve talked about this before, a lot: flying can be a real challenge if you’re disabled. Now, one of my brilliant colleagues, Alex Taylor, who’s with me today, got so fed up of the amount it was costing him to fly with his personal assistant that he did some digging: why does it cost him extra? For safety reasons many airlines make it compulsory for some passengers with mobility issues to travel with a PA; that’s a personal assistant or carer, whatever language you prefer. But they then charge full price for the additional fare. The industry body, The Civil Aviation Authority has published guidelines which suggest PAs should travel for free or at least have reduced priced tickets. But Alex contacted more than 100 major airlines and found that at least a third continue to charge the full price.

EMMA- Now, it’s important to note, isn’t it, that this isn’t some sort of loophole that people want to use to get free flights for their pals, is it, Nikki?

NIKKI- No, absolutely categorically not. This is for people like me who physically can’t fly without assistance from my PA or a trusted person really. And as the airlines insist on me flying with someone I’m paying twice for both my ticket and my PA’s. So, I really have absolutely no option, like many other disabled people. And it is really down to the fact that I can’t transfer myself, so when the plane is in the air I can’t get to the bathroom on my own because I wouldn’t be able to get out of the aisle chair and all of that. So, I’m very excited to be joined by the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳’s very own brilliant Alex Taylor. I know him fairly well. Now, you did all the research on this story, Alex, and such thorough research. I’m also joined by Melody Powell, who’s looking fantastic with bright pink hair, I love it. Now, Melody is a diversity and equality inclusion consultant, and they are both with me in the studio, which is very exciting for many reasons. First one being that I’ve not been in the studio yet with two other wheelchair users. So, hello. 

ALEX- Hi there. 

MELODY- Hi. 

EMMA- I’m feeling a bit left out here. 

NIKKI- I mean, I was hoping for a bit more of a whoop, but that was... 

MELODY- Well, I was waiting for Alex, and then it was silent. 

ALEX- Yeah. 

NIKKI- Big up three chairs. Well, I’m in a scooter but you know, hey ho. I’m going to start with you Alex because you’ve done all of this research. What is the current situation? I said before you contacted over 100 airlines to find out how many insist on a PA and whether they offered a discount for those who have to take a PA. What did you find? 

ALEX- I have, yeah. So, often what happens is on their website it’s often hidden away. It hasn’t always been actually put on there about who has to pay, it’s not actually openly mentioned, but it’s normally us who have to pay. I mean, if you ask, email them and get in touch it says oh yes, actually we do; but openly it’s not actually talked about because it looks really bad.

NIKKI- Hey Ems, you’ve been looking at some of Alex’s research, what kinds of stats have you pulled out from it? 

EMMA- Yes, I have. So, around a third of the airlines that Alex contacted confirmed that they do require passengers with mobility problems to purchase a PA ticket at full price. Now, that is long haul airlines like Emirates, American Airlines and Virgin Atlantic, and budget airlines like easyJet and Ryanair.

ALEX- The only one that offers an overall help with this is Pakistani Airlines. It’s not entire, actually it’s a discount. 

EMMA- So, over 40 carriers, including Turkish Airlines, they have on their website either a recommendation or mandatory requirement to travel with a PA, on their website. But they don’t clearly set out how much it will cost or whether the individual or the airline will pay. They say you need one but they don’t say how that’s meant to happen. British Airways told the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ that it provides discounted PA fares on direct flights to Brazil and the US, but refused to specify the discounts on these routes. 

NIKKI- What is your experience like Melody? Hopefully I’m not being too presumptuous, but are you one of the people like me and Alex that have to take somebody with you on a flight? 

MELODY- Yes.

NIKKI- So, what’s your overall experience been like? 

MELODY- I mean, it’s a nightmare because you have to pay double, and sometimes even more than that, because you have to pay to make sure your seats are near each other because you can’t flag down your PA if they’re halfway on the other side of the plane. And you add travel insurance and everything and it’s just so, so expensive. And it’s just your problem and no one else’s.

NIKKI- It’s one of those things, isn’t it don’t you think flying, Alex as well, like it’s a problem that’s never improved? Small steps, very, very small steps, but taking such a long time. And I wonder whether a lot of non-disabled people realise that the things they take for granted like flying for a holiday or potentially flying for work and all these things that people do quite easily, that actually a lot of disabled people are just priced out of being able to do that. It’s just fundamentally not possible unless you are these year’s bowling, unless you are absolutely minted. 

ALEX- And I have heard that off a lot of others who I have actually talked to about this, that they just can’t go home to their mum or dad or anywhere. And it’s not just about having a good holiday; it’s about access everywhere. 

NIKKI- Melody, do you want to go on holiday in the future or go somewhere abroad? 

MELODY- Yeah, I love travelling. I’ve spent three months in America in the past. I love travelling. But just flights in general are so expensive nowadays, and of course disabled people have even less money at the moment with the cuts and the cost of living and everything that it does seem almost impossible. I’ve been saving throughout the entire pandemic as my sort of I will get out of the house again one day.

NIKKI- Were you shielding? 

MELODY- Yes, for like two and a half years. And I still don’t have enough money to go with a PA. I have just about enough if I were to travel on my own, but there’s no way I can afford to pay for another person to go with me. 

NIKKI- And what’s travel been like for you, Alex?

ALEX- Well, obviously I’ve always had to have a carer actually help me on board. And I had a moment in Berlin, I have a mate there, he can help me actually if I’m at his house. But in order to get there I had to have a carer on board and go home again and help me actually get home afterwards. So, it actually ends up being even more times, four times the price really it can be if you have that instance. Okay, it’s rare, but that was an example of how mad it is: I had to ask my mum in the end to actually come over and then go back all in one day, go right back on the aeroplane. All right mum, bye, help me back on and now go away, enjoy your day.

NIKKI- [Laughs] it’s been lovely seeing you for this short term. 

ALEX- Literally, bye mother. 

NIKKI- There’s not even an exemption if you say, look I’m going to take this flight on my own, I’m not going to go to the bathroom so I’m not going to need any assistance, I just need the general assistance on board and off as per usually. It’s still a no, you still have to take someone? 

ALEX- What happens is it’s actually based on if you can evacuate on your own or if you need to help in order to pee or actually get there. I mean, obviously I don’t know about you, I can get there, but I can’t actually get my underwear down, so I do need help with that. And that’s where I can’t ask an air hostess. 

NIKKI- I mean, you could try [laughs]. 

ALEX- I mean, I could but that would be something very different that could get me kicked out of my job, so let’s not go there. But the point is that’s where I get stuck. 

NIKKI- We’ve talked about this before, but I guess some people could argue that others might take advantage of this scheme. Why would that not happen? 

ALEX- I would say all of us have to have our PIP assessments and things like that which are hard evidence of what we need and why. If you haven’t got that well then there’s no evidence that you need what you are asking for. It’s like if you have a gig you have go to here in the UK, if you have a carer well, they get to go in free because you obviously need that help. And they ask you, have you got evidence of your PIP assessment or anything, you say yes, and then that’s done and sorted. It’s a way forward there I think which is quite easy to implement.

NIKKI- Would you be all right handing over personal information like that, Melody, if it meant that you’d get some kind of discount or free ticket? 

MELODY- Definitely, I’d give them anything they want if it meant I didn’t to pay double the price. I mean, at the end of the day the person that’s going with you is responsible for your safety. If there’s an emergency on the plane that person has the responsibility of making sure you’re safe. So, yeah they are almost doing the job for the airline, but you have to pay for the person to do that job. 

EMMA- We put all of this to Airlines UK, and they’re the trade body for UK registered airlines. And they told us: UK Airlines have a proven track record of constructive engagement on disability issues. UK Airlines want to continue to work collaboratively across industry with government and with the third sector to continue improvements in service provision. 

NIKKI- Listen, thank you so much for coming in. Alex, well done on all that. Anything helps when it comes to this issue for a lot of disabled people, because I know I get contacted by so many, and I know you’ve spoken to so many as well. And Melody, thank you for coming in and telling us about it from your perspective as well. 

MELODY- Thank you for having me. 

NIKKI- It’s been a pleasure. Don’t leave, I like having three chairs in the room. 

MUSIC- Access All.

EMMA- What have you been watching this week, Nikki Fox?

NIKKI- Well, you know I love my telly. This week I was watching Unique Boutique. It’s on Channel 4, Ems, and it’s like a feel-good fashion show. It reminds me a little bit about the show that I used to work on How to Look Good Naked. But it features the lovely Victoria Jenkins, who we’ve had on the show twice now, haven’t we?

EMMA- We have. And she’s a designer of clever clothes for people who need a bit of a different type of jacket or trousers because they’re either a wheelchair user or they need openings to get the hospital needles in and that kind of thing, and she’s very clever at that. And she’s absolutely brilliant in this show. 

NIKKI- She’s so good. 

EMMA- Fantastic. Designing clothes for people who need something different. So, there’s a beauty queen who does pageants and they make a fabulous prom dress for her, and she’s a wheelchair user. There’s a woman with cervical cancer who is on steroids, so you know they sort of…

NIKKI- Fluctuation a bit with tension.

EMMA- Yeah, around your tummy and stuff. And she also has something I’d never heard of – this is so disability geeky – she has nephrostomy bags. So, they bring urine from the kidneys, but what they mean in a fashion sense is that she’s got little tubes coming out of her back, and she needs access to those. 

NIKKI- I really did emphasise with her because she loves animal print, leopard print. She had a favourite leopard print coat, didn’t she? And she wanted just the perfect pair of jeans and I thought if anyone’s going to do that it’s Victoria. I mean, if she was here today, Emma, I look like an overstuffed sausage in a denim maxi dress that I audio described to you earlier on. 

EMMA- It sounds lovely to me.

NIKKI- It’s that middle section. Obviously for the lovely lady she had a bag at the back. For wheelchair users when you sit down everything bunches. So, yeah there’s a lot to it with clothing, isn’t there? 

EMMA- There is. And the one that I was maybe more surprised at there was a guy in his 50s trying to get back on the dating scene. 

NIKKI- Yeah, I saw him. 

EMMA- Part-time wheelchair user, I was going to say. Ambulatory, isn’t that what they call them, someone who uses a wheelchair sometimes and walks sometimes? 

NIKKI- A bit of both. 

EMMA- But honestly, when he got to meet his new outfit and they were telling him all about it it was such an emotional watch: 

[Clip]

MALE- You’ve changed the shape of my legs, David, which is like surgeons have tried [laughs]. 

DAVID- All we needed was a good pair of trousers!

MALE- All we needed were scissors [laughs]. 

[End of clip]

EMMA- It was about the shape of his legs and he wanted his trousers to hang properly. 

NIKKI- No!

EMMA- And they gave him trousers that hung properly, and it meant so much to him. 

NIKKI- It’s very much like the feel of the programme that I used to work on, How to Look Good Naked, before my time doing the stuff that I’m doing now. 

EMMA- Yeah, because this is right up your street, isn’t it? 

NIKKI- Totally up my street. 

EMMA- This fashion, TV business. 

NIKKI- Yeah, I was a researcher. 

EMMA- Remind me, you were with Gok Wan, the Gok Wan?

NIKKI- Yeah. It was for Channel 4 as well. And I started as a runner on that show, went up to AP in the end. I worked on four, five series in the end, loads anyway, and it had the same feel as this show. And they go down the catwalk at the end of the show, the show that we did, and they just felt a million dollars. And actually it is about your confidence. And actually sometimes the right clothes and hair and…

EMMA- And then you were on it, weren’t you? 

NIKKI- Yeah, I did a bit of presenting on it. Gok was really passionate about doing a series for disabled people specifically. And we weren’t getting any disabled people coming through, otherwise we would have included them in the main programme. But I don’t whether people just didn’t have the confidence. But when we advertised that we were specifically looking for disabled people then we got an influx. 

EMMA- Great. 

NIKKI- So, that’s why it was a separate show, but he wanted it all along. 

EMMA- Yeah, because then disabled people didn’t feel like it was for them until they were told that it was for them. 

NIKKI- Yeah. 

EMMA- The good thing about this show as well, this Unique Boutique, is that even the narrator is disabled. 

NIKKI- I know. 

EMMA- The fabulous Ruth Madeley from she was in Years and Years, she was in Then Barbara Met Alan, just super famous, Bafta winning woman. 

NIKKI- Soon to be in Doctor Who. 

EMMA- About to be in Doctor Who which is very, very exciting. Speaking of fashion, Nikki…

NIKKI- Yes, Emma Tracey? You always look lovely by the way. 

EMMA- Oh thank you. I’m quite safe, but we’ll talk about that another time in terms of my clothing choices because I know you’ll have some thoughts on that. But I have always had rubbish nails, and I started getting them done this summer in an effort to become an adult and to create some visual things about me which I could control. I wouldn’t be able to fix them; I’d have to go to someone else. They wouldn’t rub off, they’re just there and they look nice, and I thought that would be really good. And I’ve really enjoyed all the compliments on them. 

NIKKI- Oh. 

EMMA- And it’s been fab. But I think I’m going to get rid of them. 

NIKKI- Why?!

EMMA- Because I miss being able to feel things with the very tips of my fingers, because I always had really short nails. 

NIKKI- Oh.

EMMA- And I realise that I use the tips of my fingers. And they catch something before the rest of my fingers. 

NIKKI- Emma, I’m going to stop you. I’m going to stop you right here. Okay? Stop you. You carry on with those nails. May I ask you a few questions? Were they gel or were they acrylic?

EMMA- They’re gel. 

NIKKI- Okay. Now, I also have to, different to you, but I have to grab things in a physical sense, help pull things up or pull things down or whatever you want to do. So, I have incredibly short nails. I dislike long nails anyway, I think they’re revolting. And I want to try and help people if I can with my hands. But they’re very, very short and gelled, and I can still feel my tips. 

EMMA- Okay. And they still look nice and it’s okay to have really short ones? 

NIKKI- They still look nice. I think short gelled nails are much nicer than long nails. 

EMMA- Oh okay. Can I file them myself though? 

NIKKI- Yeah. 

EMMA- Because I feel like my nails seem to grow really quickly. The other reason why I thought about getting rid of them was again about the length. Because the ends of them are like little scoops of doom. 

NIKKI- [Laughs].

EMMA- My hands go into everything. I feel everything. I wash my hands a lot. But I feel everything, I get my hands right in there, and they just scoop everything up. And I have to keep checking to make sure that there’s not like butter in there or something. And I’m constantly trying to clean them, and it’s awful. I don’t like it. So, I need to get rid of the little scoops. 

NIKKI- How many quenelles of vanilla ice cream would you like? Scoop it up.

EMMA- [Laughs] yes exactly! A little snack [laughs]. So, okay get them really short. 

NIKKI- I’m an advocate for very short, I feel a bit rocky, I feel a bit edgy, very short gelled nails. 

EMMA- Okay. 

NIKKI- Now, I tell you, we’re going to have to wear gel nails for Edinburgh, Ems. Okay, I’m going to calm down. There are a few tickets left. We need to tell people, there are only a few, but they are left for our live version of this podcast that we are doing at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. Is it the Festival Fringe or Fringe Festival? 

EMMA- Festival Fringe, I know it sounds a bit weird but it is Festival Fringe. 

NIKKI- Doesn’t sound right, does it? Anyway, we’re going to be live, live, live and kicking on August 18th at 6pm. So, if you want to grab a ticket and see Emma and I in the flesh, and the whole team actually, go to your favourite search engine and look for ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Shows and Tours, click Edinburgh Shows, and we will be there. 

Emma, also I’ve not mentioned trains, have I? Now, if you caught last week’s show you would have heard us talking about plans by train operators to close hundreds of ticket offices at railway stations across England, which lots of you were very, very worried about and still are. It’s all over Twitter. The consultation into the proposals has now been extended, so it’s going on until the 1st September. So, if you want to contribute to that look it up online. 

EMMA- And you can also consult with us. You can email us, tell us whatever you like, talk about the stories we’ve covered, anything at all, we’re on accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or you can contact us on what used to be called Twitter, it’s now called X. Do you say X or is it just a visual thing? I don’t know. Anyway, we’re @³ÉÈËÂÛ̳AccessAll. 

MUSIC- [French horn playing].

NIKKI- That is the hugely talented French horn player, Felix Klieser, playing Mozart’s Fourth Horn Concerto, with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. Felix has been described as a virtuoso, and will be preforming that piece when he makes his debut at the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Proms with performances on 2nd and 3rd August. Now, Felix was born without arms and plays the French horn with his toes. Hello Felix. What an introduction!

FELIX- Hello, nice to see you. 

NIKKI- So lovely to meet you. Emma and I are very excited about this. What a beautiful sound the French horn makes. 

FELIX- Yeah. I think this is quite interesting because when you play the French horn there are many people who don’t really know what the French horn looks like, but when they hear the voice or the sound of the French horn they’re like ah, actually it sounds like maybe in a movie or something like this. 

NIKKI- It’s just beautiful, there’s just something about it. What was it that made you decided on the French horn?

FELIX- This is a little miracle because I was never in a concert, I never met a horn player, and in my family around there was no one making music and no one had a horn. And there was one music school and in that music school there was no one horn teacher. So, I went to this music school and to visit this horn teacher and that was the beginning of something. When you have a piano there are many, many keys; this is a little bit different with a French horn because the most tricky thing is to create one note. Since the beginning it’s a little bit frustrating because you practise a lot, you do a lot, and after a few months you’re just able to play one or two notes.

EMMA- You play the horn with your feet, so how have you adapted things so that you can do that so successfully?

FELIX- Well, you know, I think the main thing about playing the French horn is the mouth. So, the fingering is not that important. The main focus when you start to learn this instrument is to blow air through your lips to make you lips vibrate and to create the sound. But even this was never something I had to practise a lot. This was very natural and this was to the most difficult thing. But usually a French horn player has a right hand. When someone has something in the bell the sound is different, so the sound is more dark, more round. And of course when you play the French horn without anything in the bell then I had to create the same character of sound without having something in the bell. 

NIKKI- Wow. So, you never stuff anything in that then? You literally just have to create the sound yourself? 

FELIX- Yeah. You have to control the air in a different way and take care of the position of your lips, of your tongue. And this was maybe the most challenging thing. Playing something quick or playing scale quick or something like this, or fingering, that was something I practised a lot. 

EMMA- Okay. So, you have a stand though, don’t you, that you put the horn on? And then you have another rolling thing as well that you use?

FELIX- Only the stand. It’s very simple because the instrument is on the stand and the stand holds the instrument, that’s everything. And the other small thing is for mute. Usually when you play the horn then there are some pieces where you have to use a mute, put the mute and the bell and the sound is more quiet. There’s another style where you can put the mute very quick in and out. But in the end they’re not doing something, they’re not creating something. 

NIKKI- Felix, I hope this doesn’t sound too wildly inappropriate, but when I was watching you perform so beautifully, obviously I know you have to kick your leg up and that’s what you use, you use your toes to press the buttons, I just thought wow, what beautiful music, and my goodness, Felix has got magnificent feet. You have a beautiful foot, Felix, is what I thought.

FELIX- Thank you very much. When I see myself say something it looks very interesting and very spectacular. But when I play by myself it’s a very comfortable position, so it’s something I can do for hours. It looks more tiring than it is. 

NIKKI- You are a very kind of can-do problem solver. You’re not somebody who sort of sits and wallows in the fact that you can’t maybe do this or can’t do that or whatever. You just kind of get on with it. Has that always been the case?

FELIX- The main important thing when I grew up in my life is to learn to solve problems. When we have the idea that you can solve every problem, even if you don’t know at the beginning how to solve the problem, then it can be really interesting. So, in the beginning when you learn the French horn I never knew what is possible for me and what is not possible, or is there a step where I can say okay, this is the limit. But when you have a way of thinking okay, I can solve every problem, maybe it takes a lot of time, maybe it’s not easy, maybe you have to try to go different ways and maybe with the first, second and third way is not working, maybe the fourth, fifth or sixth way it’s working. When you get this way of thinking then you have many, many possibilities in your life. And this is not a question of having a disability or not, because in the end any of us has something where he or she thinks okay, there is a limit. But when you change your way of thinking and say okay, there is a problem but it’s possible to overcome every problem then life is not that difficult and hard anymore. It’s a little bit like playing a game, because when you play games or when we’re doing some quiz there are always questions that you don’t know the answer, but it’s interesting to find the right answer. 

NIKKI- How have you found as well, Felix, the classical music industry? I know when I studied it briefly, I really enjoyed it, but I felt there was a little bit of music snobbery. I just wonder how is the industry as a whole, but also how has it been for you coming in not having any arms? Have you had any challenges or has it been okay, hunky-dory?

FELIX- Well, of course there were many situations. Actually when I was 14 or 15 I got a big prize, and there was an interview together with my teacher at that time, and I was still studying at university as a young student. And in the interview it was a very smart interview, a very simple one and the guy asked me what I think about doing musician as a professional job in the future. And my answer was something like okay, maybe it could be possible, I don’t know because I’m still at school, my thing is I want to play the horn as good as possible. And then my teacher interrupted me and said, ‘Okay, well it’s a good hobby for you, but you will never be a professional horn player, never, never, never, because you don’t have the right hand and the bells work different and it will never work’. And these situations happen quite often in my life, but in this situation you have to decide okay, what should I do, should I follow the way and should I try to show that it is possible or should I give up and say okay, they are my teacher – and he was a very, very successful horn player of his generation. But I made a decision when I was I think 12 or 13 I wanted to play the French horn as good as possible. I never had the wish to become a soloist, I never had the wish to earn my money with playing music; I just had the wish to play the instrument as good as possible. 

It’s funny because when you’re not successful or when you’re young no one tells you what is not possible. But then when you’re successful and then everyone tells you how amazing you are, you’re a role model. It’s quite funny right now everyone tells me it’s amazing what I’m doing and that I am a role model for other people. 

NIKKI- I want to move on very quickly to the Proms. Obviously we know the Proms are sort of seen as the world’s greatest classic music festival. Is that true for you and somewhere where you’ve always wanted to perform? 

FELIX- When you’re young and start a career then you’re looking maybe to do famous things, to play with famous conductors, famous orchestras. But right now I want to play music for people; and the most beautiful thing is when I play a concert I have the feeling that the people in the concert are all happy, then I’m happy too. And this is the most important thing, because in the end we are doing music for people and we are making music to make the world a little bit more beautiful. 

EMMA- And one of the concerts that you’re playing in the Proms is a relaxed Prom where people can come in and leave and there are some quiet areas. What’s your thoughts on them? 

FELIX- Well, it’s something I don’t really know how it will be, but I’m looking forward to it because this is a very different way of having a concert. When you ask someone what do you think about classical music then many, many people are afraid of going to a classical concert because they don’t know how they should behave. And this is something I don’t really understand because in the end it’s really important you enjoy what you can hear, that you enjoy the music, and if you don’t like music this is also fine. So, this is the reason why I think this kind of concert is quite helpful. 

NIKKI- One thing I do love about you, Felix, you don’t take yourself too seriously or your horn. I was noticing on social media you have named your horn Alex, and Alex appears in different situations on social media: Alex cooks and goes on holiday. You’ve given him some googly eyes as well, haven’t you? 

FELIX- Well, you know when COVID started I had a big break, because I had a full concert schedule and then the next day everything was cancelled for weeks. Then of course I stopped practising because it was not necessary anymore to practise. And then I bought a PlayStation and did a lot of PlayStation. And then I was thinking about okay, maybe it’s a little bit sad for my horn to be in the case and not to be useful anymore, and then I came to think about okay, what can an instrument do during a pandemic situation: cooking something. And it’s quite funny, yes. 

NIKKI- I just love it. I mean, you are talking to someone that calls their mobility scooter Shirley the Scooter, my hoist is called Hilary; I couldn’t be more with you on this. I love this. 

FELIX- Yes. 

NIKKI- Now, listen, we’ve run out of time with you, Felix. I would like to say to the listeners, if you are lucky enough to have tickets to see Felix at the Proms please get in touch and tell us what it’s like. But for now, Felix, thank you so much. Your concert is going to be streamed live on ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Radio 3 on the 2nd and 3rd August, and of course it will be available on the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ iPlayer after that. So, have amazing shows. 

FELIX- Thank you. 

NIKKI- Oh, wasn’t he brilliant, Felix, hey Emma?

EMMA- He was so much fun actually, really great. 

NIKKI- I really like that. I love talking music. Now, coming soon to this podcast you can hear guests Fats Timbo, author Elle McNicoll and just before the summer bank holiday we’re going to have our first live podcast in Edinburgh. We keep going on about it; it’s making me more nervous. 

EMMA- If you want to hear Access All on your smart speaker say, ‘Alexa, ask the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ for Access All’ to get our latest episode. You can also find us on what used to be known as Twitter. We’re @³ÉÈËÂÛ̳AccessAll. Or go onto your favourite search engine and you’ll find the transcript of every single episode as well. 

NIKKI- I love it. Until next week people, goodbye. 

EMMA- Bye.