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Access All – episode 73

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

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NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, I was on The One Show last night. It was one of those late night, early mornings for the pod, Nikki’s feeling a bit ropey. I almost felt like I was hungover but I didn’t drink. But it was a good show. But lovely Alex Jones, who’s the main presenter of The One Show, Em, it was Alex Jones and Lauren Laverne, two brilliant woman.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh wow, on the same show!

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I know. I was the consumer filling in a Laverne-Jones sandwich.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That actually is a fantastic sandwich to be in.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Isn’t it? But Alex, yeah she came into the script meeting – oh she’s so lovely – and she looked very pale and she had a terrible, terrible migraine. And she’d tried to get rid of it all morning and she said, ‘I don’t know whether I should have actually come in today’. I actually thought she’d probably have to go home. But she didn’t. She made it through the day and she was on that sofa, and she pulled it out the bag and she was brilliant. And it just got me thinking what we have to do to get through a day, the strength.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I think a lot of disabled will feel this too. We do tend to have other medical problems sometimes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I think disabled people take a lot more energy to do things, depending on impairment.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve mentioned you’re not feeling brilliant today, and it will have taken you a lot more energy to get up, get in your car and get here.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And a lot more make-up, Emma Tracey.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A lot more make-up [laughs]. I mean, as a blind person getting to work takes a lot. You have to speak to lots of different people who are helping you maybe. You’ve maybe got to navigate roadworks etc. etc. You’ve done an hour’s commute, you almost feel like you’ve done half a day’s work sometimes.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I know.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Also for me it’s the anxiety as well, that takes a lot of energy. But I think we’re just experts at it.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Basically.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I just want to know what other people have done to push through. I want to know have you done something with a dislocated hip? Have you done something with mental health that’s been worse than ever before? Have you done something that pushed through something? I’m not saying you should. I’m not condoning it.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But have you done something? Tell us.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Once when I worked for a call centre I dislocated my knee at lunchtime, popped it back in, and went back to work.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh!

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was quite proud of myself for being a tough cookie.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That is really, really impressive.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But I needed the money and I couldn’t be docked half a day at the time so I was like, the knee’s going back in. Come on, let’s sing our own praises.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s get in there.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s big ourselves up.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý How amazing disabled people are to deal with a life that’s not set up for us by just pushing on through: accessall@bbc.co.uk.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Right Em, I’m not feeling too cracking today so shall we push through?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s do it.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s Access All, your weekly disability and mental health podcast on the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳. But even if you’re not disabled stay with us, because we are for everyone who’s interested in people, their stories and having a laugh. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m in London.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A question Emma Tracey, a bit of a rude one, but do you weigh yourself often?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m not answering that. It’s none of your business and none of anybody else’s business, and yes, it is a rude question.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughs]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you weigh yourself?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý All right, all right, I don’t love chatting about weight and scales. But actually there’s a point to it because some wheelchair users haven’t had the opportunity to get weighed for months or even years. It’s more of a problem than you might think. I know because I haven’t been weighed either.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hmm, looking forward to hearing more about that later. And also later we’ve got the Elephant Man and alligators; which is a subject that wouldn’t strike you as being a disability thing but all will be revealed.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’re on your Alexa device. Just say, ‘Ask the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ for Access All’ and you’ll get our latest show. Or grab your phone and subscribe to us on ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Emma, I know I’ve asked you this already and it’s a very personal question, and I don’t like asking you, but there is a reason.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hmm?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý How often, Emma Tracey, do you weigh yourself?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, as I said earlier, it’s none of your business.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý How rude! [Laughs]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But I would say whenever I want. It doesn’t actually cost me a thought. I have talking weighing scales in my bathroom. It’s small, it’s not much more expensive than your average, and I just step on it whenever I get the urge. I try not to do it too often, but it’s just pretty easy.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s there when you need it.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, it’s there when I need it. How about you?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I’m not into the idea of weighing too much. I can kind of tell how things fit by the clothes and the zips that I’ve broken. But I haven’t been on the old scales for years because as somebody that sits down, I cannot stand up independently without clinging on for dear life to someone else, I need those weighing scales that have got the chair. So, yeah, I couldn’t tell you what I weigh, Emma Tracey.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I wouldn’t ask you and I don’t want to know anyway. But that’s really interesting. Not having access to scales, it’s not a shocker and I’m not surprised because everything is just so inaccessible, isn’t it?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know, but the amount of times you go to an appointment, and say I had to have a pre-op, and it’s, ‘How much do you weigh?’ And I was like, ‘I have no idea’. They’re like, ‘Well, let’s weigh you. Can you get on the scales?’ And I’m like, ‘Have you got the seated scales?’ and they’re like, ‘No, can you stand up?’ And I’m like, ‘No, no I can’t, not if you want an accurate one anyway. Not unless you want me and Libby standing on the scales together with my neck lying back’.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It will surprise no one that I’ve been geeking out on accessible weighing scales and what types there are and stuff.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, doesn’t surprise me at all.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Doesn’t surprise you, no? So, obviously there are the seated ones that you talked about. I know there are special bed ones as well. There are ones that are like train tracks on the ground that you can carry, dieticians etc can carry around in a bag, and you roll across them. There’s stuff that you can attach to your hoist as well. But I did look around and the cheapest I could see of any way of weighing someone who can’t stand independently on regular scales was about £600.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Woah!

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, really, really pricey, isn’t it?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, Emma Tracey, it doesn’t. Well, Lizzie’s got the same problem as me of getting hold of suitable scales. And she is on the line right now to tell us her story. Hello Lizzie.

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, so lovely to have you on. And of course at times like this we need an expert in these situations, Jeremy Vine has got his resident medical guru, Dr Sarah Jarvis; we have disabled GP, Dr Georgie Budd. She’s back again with all of her wisdom and her knowledge. Hello Georgie.

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi guys, how are you doing?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks so much guys for joining us. Now, Lizzie, I’ll start with you. You’re 37 and you’re a mum of three, and you’ve got a degenerative muscle related impairment and you’re also a wheelchair user. When was the last time that you were weighed? And what were the circumstances, if you don’t mind me asking?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think the last time I was weighed kind of professionally or any kind of healthcare setting was about 22 years ago. I think I was about 15. I had to have an endoscopy under general anaesthetic and I remember them telling me to sit on the chair scales.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý 22 years ago! That’s incredible, isn’t it? Am I the only one surprised by this and shocked?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, I’m not surprised. I’m not surprised at all because I can’t even remember the last time I saw a chair weighing scale thingmajig, so it doesn’t surprise me at all. Have you not been weighed since?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, nothing. And I’ve had three pregnancies, epidurals, all sorts of medical things since then.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý When you’re pregnant – Emma you probably know this better – don’t they need to weigh you when you’re pregnant?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was weighed loads of times when I was pregnant. So, Georgie it must be sort of important, and the epidural as well?

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of things that we use weight for in health: anaesthetics, and drug dosing, and just to keep an eye on it as well for someone’s general health. During pregnancy for example if someone was losing weight I as a GP would actually be really quite concerned. But if I don’t know the only thing that we do have to rely on is the way that people’s clothes fit. Well, obviously that changes in pregnancy anyway. We know that being overweight is a risk factor for many, many diseases. Weight comes into one of the measures that we’ve always used, which is BMI. But BMI is actually quite flawed in itself. So, there are a number of ways that weight is important to health and factors in.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, Lizzie what did you do when you had to have your epidural? Did you just have to guess your weight?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I think any time they’ve asked me recently is like for MRIs or CT scan, epidural, they’ve said, ‘What do you weigh roughly?’ and I was like, ‘I don’t know’ just kind of guessing. But again, like with BMI, you have to kind of compare it with height; I’ve no idea how tall I am.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, totally the same.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Why do you not have any idea how tall you are? Is that because standing up and being weighed straight down is an issue?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I come from a very tall family so I would imagine if I hadn’t been a wheelchair user I would probably be at least 5’10, 5’11. My mum is, so we’re all like giants in our family. I think I’m about 5’4 because I think I had to measure myself roughly for my graduation gown, so I lay on the floor and they measured me along the floor.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. Well, we spoke to Gillian Murphy from Beckenham earlier, and she sent us this message on X, formerly known as Twitter. Gillian’s a wheelchair user as well and an amputee, and she told us she’s overweight and she is trying to get healthier, but she’s got no way of monitoring her weight.

GILLIAN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was last weighed at the amputee centre six months ago, which is the only place I have access to sit-on scales. Yes, I have a weight problem. I am addressing it. But I’d like to be weighed weekly so I know which direction I’m heading in with my weight. But I can’t because there aren’t any locally. My GP doesn’t have access to any. I’ve tried the weighing machine in Boots because I thought well, maybe that’s a bit more professional than mine. That’s putting my wheelchair behind me, standing up on one leg and praying. So, I’m like if you’re going to give way don’t do it in Boots, it isn’t the place. And that still wasn’t registering properly at all.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I get quite, I don’t know if demoralised is the right word, but I get quite frustrated that I can’t see numbers to reflect how my journey is going. That would encourage me so much more. I understand they’re an expensive resource, but if a group of surgeries clubbed together to start with, and then maybe if they got used more, more would become available. I don’t know. It’s like we’re always being told we have to lose weight but we’re not helped, we’re not given the tools.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, that’s a very reasonable suggestion from Gillian there about the surgeries clubbing together. And also what she’s saying about being weighed, it’s that added motivation when you lose weight to see a couple of pounds drop off. It helps you for the following week, doesn’t it? I mean, Dr Georgie is getting weighed for someone like Gillian, it is important, isn’t it?

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think it really is, especially in terms of weight management, which is so much more difficult from a chair anyway for a number of reasons: you’re not using your big leg muscles anymore so you’re not burning as many calories; access to actually exercising as a disabled person is less than I would like it to be; access to gyms, access to swimming pools, if you’re not somebody that’s going to lift weights and do hand cycling – all of these things are a significant issue. And if you’re trying to lose weight and you don’t have access to something to see if what you’re doing is working one, it’s poor for motivation. I don’t believe in weighing every week.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý However, I understand why people do it in Slimming World or whatever.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I was just going to quickly ask Lizzie, does some of this ring true to you? Would you like to know your weight so that you can maintain the healthiest lifestyle possible?

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, exactly. And you can’t just rely on how clothes fit all the time because sizes differ incredibly, even the same shop. I’ve got two pairs of jeans from Tesco, both the same size, one of them fits fine and other one’s really tight. So, you can’t rely on that and how they fit to know if you’ve put on weight or if you’ve lost weight because everything is different and it’s not a reliable method. And obviously clothes stretch the more you wear them.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, absolutely. I mean, lots of people have gone to lots of lengths to weigh themselves. Seeing as there’s no actual scales easily accessible for people to use people started coming up with their own DIY methods, haven’t they, Nikki?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’re right, Emma. Christian is a wheelchair user in the US. He was so keen to weigh himself that he came up with an interesting way of doing it using regular domestic scales:

[Clip]

CHRISTIAN-ÌýÌýÌý I got a piece of wood, a plank going across the scale. What I’m going to do is I’m going to roll onto the scale and pop a wheelie. All my weight is going to be on this plank. It’s like a homemade wheelchair scale, guys. And then whatever the weight is you want to subtract how much your wheelchair weighs. So, for me my wheelchair weighs 35lbs. You just pop a wheelie, square it up, get on the board, do another wheelie, hold it, hold it and get off.

[End of clip]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughter] Christian, he’s cracked it!

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s cracked it! But you have to be able to pop a wheelie.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was going to say, I can’t pop a wheelie in my old scooter.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughter] But that’s all right for people who can pop a wheelie, isn’t it, do you know what I mean?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh my goodness. Ladies, have you come up with any interesting ways of trying to weigh yourselves? Handstands?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ve sat on my bathroom scales trying to, going from all fours on the floor, to then kind of touching the scales to turn it on, and then sitting down really quickly, lifting my feet up, which is like a ridiculous yoga pose, and trying to balance and not fall back and smack my head on something.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It sounds like a nightmare.

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s difficult.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely sounds like a nightmare. Can I give the last word to Henrietta who got in touch with us by email? And she said that, surprise, surprise, cannot get access to suitable scales, has to go to her local wheelchair services. How far away is your local wheelchair services? Has to transfer from her chair, put the chair on the scales, put the chair off the scales, transfer back into her chair, roll back on the scales to weigh herself. And with opening times of wheelchair services she actually has to take time out of work to go and weigh herself.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh!

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, talk about disability admin, honestly.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Sighs]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, seriously. I spoke to Ability Superstore, a big shop who serve 100,000 people a year, and they said in the 13 years of trading they’ve never been asked by a punter for accessible scales because they think they’d be too pricey and too big to have.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, of all the things you need to get – Dr Georgie touched on this – there’s a lot of stuff that’s not particularly accessible as ways to get fit, like going swimming and all that kind of stuff. So, disabled people often have to buy their own kit, like arm bikes and all that kind of stuff. It’s all way pricey. The last thing you want to spend a load of dosh on is a flipping weighing scale. But after this item I’m kind of worried that people are going to start taking their life into their own hands trying to weigh themselves.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Popping wheelies.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Singing] popping wheelies. Oh, thank you so much, Lizzie for joining us, and thank you Dr Georgie as well. It’s been great to hear from both of you.

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Go to the vets as well, that’s another option.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Go to the vets did you say?

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Get on the dog scales [laughter].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s right, the dogs have got scales but we ain’t.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, it’s very important to weigh your Labrador. Bye ladies.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Don’t worry about your disableds, just weigh your dog.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You can weigh Buddy but not you, your assistance dog.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks guys, thank you Georgie as well.

GEORGIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No worries.

LIZZIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Bye.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hey Em?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hmm?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You know how you just love trying to make out that my unruly rescue dog, very loving rescue dog, Buddy, you make him out to be my assistance dog, just because I’m disabled?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, because you’re disabled and you’ve got a dog, so ergo.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I’m like no Em, no.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughs]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If he’s going to do anything he’s going to eat my socks; he’s not going to take them off my feet.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. But why are we talking about this now?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, we’re chatting about support animals, that’s why. It was my link into it, Ems, a bit like assistance animals who provide that calming support. Because I wanted to tell you about Wally. Okay? Because there is one who goes by the name of Wally, or to be…

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Is he a support animal or an assistance animal?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He is a support animal, so there’s a difference. I suppose Buddy could be a support animal because he’s very loving actually. But he’s a support animal. I’m going to give his full name. his full name is Wallygator.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s a long name for a dog, isn’t it?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, Wally is an alligator, Em.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, a support alligator?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s a support alligator.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, where is Wally then? Ha-ha-ha, get it?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Where’s Wally? [Laughs] I like that. He’s in the States. Last week Wally was reportedly denied entrance to see the Philadelphia Phillies play the Pittsburgh Pirates in a major league baseball match.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I thought it was some sort of alligator Olympics or something like that.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, no.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý With pirates and stuff, water related.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, you had me right, an alligator.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, he was trying to get into baseball game, the alligator was?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, it wasn’t the alligator obviously, it was his master [laughs]. What do you call, what do you call the person with the support animal?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Handler?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý His handler, yeah, wanted to take Wally into the baseball match. He was denied entrance, understandably. But apparently didn’t stop him from giving loads of hugs outside the Philadelphia stadium.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hugs?!

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hugs.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh I know, is he one of those mascot alligators? Is it actually just a suit that somebody wears?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, it’s an actual alligator.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But how do you hug an alligator? What size is it? What was it in? What does it feel like? I need to know.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know. I would actually like to hug an alligator. Wally lives apparently with Joie Henney who lives in Pennsylvania. Now, Joie apparently, like my Budster, rescued Wally from Disneyland in 2015. He says Wally is his best buddy, and he loves giving kisses. My goodness, the mouth opens.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý With the teeth?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, apparently. Probably a bit like mine.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, I can’t see, but I’ve been told on the grapevine that alligators have a lot of big teeth.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They’re quite scary and they’ve got teeth, yeah definitely. And Joie told CBS Evening News apparently that Wally had helped support him through depression.

[Clip]

JOIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I get lonely and stuff like that there. And he seems to sense that stuff, you know. He’ll come up and give me a hug, and makes me feel loved.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, that’s fair enough. I am joking, but each to their own. If it works for him and Wally supports him then great.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s lovely. That’s really lovely.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, Ems, do you know, we have had an awful lot of feedback from our episode last week where you left me alone.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hmm, you know what, I wasn’t even there, as you keep pointing out. I was on my holidays. But I did hear about it: it was a photography campaign which used disabled influencers on posters wearing t-shirts with slogans like Can’t Push This.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Hums campaign tune] this is the government’s Ask, Don’t Assume campaign. It was a very unexpectedly diverse campaign because, I don’t know if you saw Em, Disability Rights UK initially tweeted it was something like: support the government’s ridiculous attempt to purple wash the murderous ableist policy. So, a very strong tweet there from DRUK, which they later deleted. And we had Dan White on to talk about that, and he kind of defended as to why someone may have decided to use that language.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It was passionate, people are struggling, disabled people are struggling, these were all his words.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, disabled people are passionate because they got in touch with us by email about this.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Including George.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý From all sides of the debate.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Martin called the campaign totally inappropriate, in fact patronising and offensive.Ìý

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. And George got in touch, he said, ‘The reaction could be summarised as don’t even ask, just leave us alone’. But he wondered if it was really what people wanted to hear, suggesting it turns a positive act of helping into a minefield.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, Amelia, who’s an autistic student, she felt that people had more of a problem with the campaign because it was by the government, rather than the actual meaning behind it. And she also felt bad for the disabled models involved, and she said that that they should have been praised rather than shut down, because being up there with those t-shirts on in social media it could have been quite exposing.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, and we did mention this last week, but the campaign was made by and in collaboration with other disabled people. Disabled people were in the actual video. But of course I can see how the message may have got taken in the way it was taken. But yeah, it’s just one those, a bit messy.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A bit messy but started lots of conversations.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We have got the Minister for Disabled People, Tom Pursglove, coming on next week so I’m going to ask him about him, Ems.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Right.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We love hearing from you so keep getting in contact. You can do that by email accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can get hold of us on X, Twitter @³ÉÈËÂÛ̳AccessAll.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Send us a voicemail because we absolutely love those.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We love it. Our number is 0330 123 9480.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, if you’re unfamiliar with the name Joseph Merrick you’ve probably heard his nickname, the Elephant Man. Joseph was born in the 1860s. During childhood his body began to grow rapidly and abnormally, creating an overgrowth of skin and bone. He spent time in a freakshow – I hate that word – and he was considered a curiosity. Now, there have been many productions about his life, but for the first time the play, The Real & Imagined History of the Elephant Man, tells the story from Joseph’s perspective and is performed by a disabled and neurodivergent cast at Nottingham Playhouse. And I am so thrilled to say that we are joined by lead actor, Zac Ford-Williams, who plays Joseph. He’s just literally come off rehearsals, haven’t you?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I’m still sweating [laughs].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s still literally sweating. But he’s here with us now and it’s just so lovely to meet you, Zac.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you. It’s a pleasure, Nikki, it really is to be here.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This sounds like a hugely demanding role for you, Zac. I mean, how do you prepare for something? Because you’ve got cerebral palsy, you must have to consider your energy sometimes?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mainly in terms of economising movement, so making sure I save my energy for the things that really matter. And when I’m working it’s like never stand when you can sit, and never sit when you can lie down.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love that.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This is smart, this is really smart. When it comes to playing these big roles like the one we’re going to come onto in a minute what is it like? I imagine you have to keep quite on top of your game fitness wise, eh?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. What is good I suppose about the demands of a play like this is I don’t have to exercise out of it, because I do so much exercising within the play that it keeps me physically fit whether I like it or not. So, there’s that that comes with it.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love it. And fresh from the debriefs, I don’t know whether you can see, but we are joined by director Stephen Bailey. Hello.

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Amazing. Sorry for being a bit late.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh honestly, we were joking that Zac got away from a highly critical debrief, which I’m sure wasn’t the case.

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely not, no. He’s brilliant. Ìý

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, Zac, we were talking there, weren’t we, about the demands, the physical demands of the play. But let’s talk about the character that you’re playing, Joseph Merrick, in this play.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s so interesting because this play, I’m sure Stephen will tell you as well, is a sort of real and imagined history of his entire life from when he’s ten to the end of his life at 27. And the way he progresses through that as a person and his condition progresses through that is really interesting.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý For people who don’t know who was he? What was he about?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý To be honest, Stephen’s massively into the history and I think Stephen might be well versed in this.

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Joseph Merrick was the son of a working class family in Leicester in the mid-19th century. And from early on his life, we don’t know why, it doesn’t necessarily matter, he had a condition which caused his skin and bone and tissue to overgrow. And over his very short life, he died when he was 27, this turned into his limbs and most maybe famously his head and face being very overgrown, giving him an unusual appearance. And he tried to work. He was unable to work due to his disability, so he was put in the workhouse. And he was only able to leave the workhouse by performing in human exhibitions and sideshows, which he did for a short while. And part of the reason we’re in Nottingham is because the very first place he exhibited is literally the road behind the building where we are now. And then maybe the most famously, because in the film it was the main element of it, when he was fired from the sideshow he was taken to a London hospital by a surgeon and both exhibited again, this time as a medical specimen, but also used as a curiosity for London society. But despite all that he passed away early in his life at 27, which I think is important to point out in terms of how we treat and view disabled bodies, he was then I’m afraid dissected. And his skeleton remains on display in I think it’s Queen Mary’s School of Dentistry and Medicine.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s it. Is that what’s important to you as well, Zac, when you’re playing this character, is that what you want audiences to get from it, from your performance?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. We’re not doing prosthetics or any of that, which a lot of other adaptations have decided. Because I’ve got CP, and I mask CP a lot, as something a lot of disabled people will be familiar with, I am not trying to put on a disability I don’t have, but I’m playing Joseph using levels of my own disability, my own cerebral palsy.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, you tried to cover up your cerebral palsy, like lots of people do with their disability, subconsciously or whatever, but for this you’re not doing that as much?

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. And progressively as well, one of the interesting challenges as his condition progresses over the course of the play I am letting it out more and more, which is again a really interesting challenge as a way to show the way his condition is slowly progressing without crimping up.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, without wearing any sort of mask or doing anything differently…

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý …to show your body looking different.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Is this what’s really important to you then, Stephen? Is this what you really want, this is a very different take, and you want the audience to get very different things from this story?

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I think a lot of the Elephant Man that exists, that’s the David Lynch, and there is an existing play that was at the National and has been in the West End and all of this. The performance is mostly about two things which I think are less important, they both gives huge importance to the doctor who gave me the charity of giving him somewhere to actually live. And a lot of the focus is on a non-disabled person, be that John Hurt, Bradley Cooper, David Bowie, oh how are they going to portray this. And whereas here it’s much more just the entire company are deaf, disabled and neurodivergent actors, and a large portion of the creative team are too, is just going well this actually is authenticity. All of this work, all this method stuff people talk about, Zac can just walk in the room and do that.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Guys, thank you so much for joining us, because I know you guys must be so hectic at the moment. Good luck with it all. It sounds brilliant, it really, really does. I do want to see it myself. Oh god, it says on the script I’ve got to say break a leg.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ooh.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Don’t break a leg Zac, whatever you do.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah [laughs].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, the Real & Imagined History of the Elephant Man gets underway at the Nottingham Playhouse; it’s also going to be on tour visiting Blackpool Grand Theatre and Coventry’s Belgrade Theatre. Am I right guys?

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That is correct, yeah.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That is correct.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have fun. And thank you so much for coming on.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Bye.

ZAC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Lovely, thank you.

STEPHEN-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Our pleasure.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That was the Elephant Man, a bit of a dark period of disability history right there, eh? But get yourself along because it sounds really interesting and they’re doing it a different way. Go to the Nottingham Playhouse to see Zac. What a fella. I really like him, he’s really talented. And the rest of the cast of course. That’s it for this week though. We are back as usual next week. But you’re away again, aren’t you, Emma Tracey.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve only just got back. Is it something I’ve said?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What have I done?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Holiday number two. You’ve done nothing, mate. It’s just that I didn’t take my holidays for months and months and my kids are on their half-term Scottish holidays, because they’re a bit earlier than the English ones, so we thought we’d take the opportunity and we’re off to Ireland.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh lovely. Have a lovely time, Ems.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ll get to see my mammy as well.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I will miss you very much.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ll miss you too. And looking forward to hearing what happens next week because there’s some exciting stuff planned. Now, you can get in contact in the usual ways. We’re on Elon Musk’s beloved X platform @³ÉÈËÂÛ̳AccessAll. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. And do tell us where you are, because I’m actually always kind of fascinated to know where people are listening. For example, the guy who helps me to the train in the morning he’s listening in the office at Inverkeithing train station and he says he is, and I quote, heehawing and laughing at us.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh that’s nice.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Or with us I would hope [laughs].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m not sure what the geographic knowledge adds, but I’ll go with it, Ems.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, you know, Inverkeithing, might as well put it on the map.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I like it, I like it. Okay, till next week everyone.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Goodbye.

[Trailer for The Today Podcast]

AMOL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello, it’s Amol.

NICK-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I’m Nick, and we’re launching The Today Podcast from Radio 4.

AMOL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Come on then, what is it, Nick?

NICK-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, every week we’re going to take a big subject we want to spend more time on. Because, I don’t know about you, when I present the Today programme I’m always thinking of things I wish I’d asked, I wish I’d heard, and this is going to give us the time to do that: to get more analysis, more insight, sometimes more gossip.

AMOL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Same goes for me. I’m looking forward to this. Episodes will drop every Thursday. It’s called The Today Podcast and you can listen now on ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Sounds.