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 | You and Yours - Transcript ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Radio 4 |
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| TX: 18.06.04 – ADVANCES IN STEM CELL TREATMENT - UPDATE PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON |
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| THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY ROBINSON Ian Rosenberg is a retired businessman, he's 68 and he's had serious heart disease for 25 years. Last summer he was told he had only months to live. At the time he was in and out of hospital and hardly ever left the house. Then he went to Frankfurt, effectively to be a guinea pig in pioneering stem cell research. Doctors there took his own stem or building block cells from a hip bone and then injected them back into a coronary artery. Last September our disability reporter - Carolyn Atkinson - went to see Mr Rosenberg, it was after his first operation but before a second and already he'd noticed a difference. ROSENBERG I was going upstairs probably about one or two at a time and resting and then going further. Today if you want to come with me I'll run up the stairs. I feel very confident otherwise I don't think I'd do it. I've got all sorts of ambitions, including skiing if you like and playing 18 holes of golf. ROBINSON Well since then Ian Rosenberg has had the second treatment in Frankfurt and Carolyn Atkinson went to see him again but this time not at his home. ROSENBERG This is my golf club, I now come here every week and we're about to hit a few balls and have some fun. I can't quite believe that I'm here, after being told by a cardiologist that there was approximately two months to live and couldn't walk 10 feet without being exhausted. Being in and out of hospital on so many, many occasions and my medicine was being increased to such a level that it wouldn't have mattered because the medicine would have killed you anyway. And here I am - it's unbelievable to think that this could happen. Why don't you come to the first green with me and see if I can get off. I think due to my condition golf was all - understand that I'm allowed a mulligan. Gideon, you start here, I'm going to watch. Gideon, incidentally, is my son-in-law and a particularly good golfer, it's great to have the competition. Well if I can hit it that far then I'll be fine. ATKINSON Has he got what it takes? GIDEON Well we'll soon find out. ROSENBERG Now remember I've got this mulligan. Just for people who don't know a mulligan means that if you're not happy with your first ball you can have another one for nothing. GIDEON I think that was a bit further than mine. ROSENBERG I think I'm going to keep to that one. I think you didn't think I'd be doing this. I'm even prepared to play for money now if you want. GIDEON I don't think I'm going to gamble on this game. I think I know who the loser's going to be. ROSENBERG If you take my life now I can walk a couple of miles, I can play 18 holes of golf, I've booked a cruise, my wife hasn't had a holiday for a year, she started off looking after me - they call her the professor now, she knows more about hearts and my case in particular. MRS ROSENBERG When we think what last summer was like I don't think we ever thought this sort of day would happen ever again. ROSENBERG No and I think you were pretty fed up with me as well by that time. CLARE I'm Clare and I'm Ian's daughter and for me, especially this summer, it will mean a lot because I have a lovely home by the coast and it does involve a lot of walking and in order for my father to enjoy things and for me to show him things you need to be able to walk and this summer I'm hoping he'll come down and I can show him things that he actually has not seen yet because it just wasn't possible and he wasn't strong enough, so I'm really hoping this year that things are going to be really good. ROSENBERG We can now make arrangements. It's a funny word - arrangements - but arrangements actually means that - we can see each other at a given time and we know that I'm going to be there. MRS ROSENBERG That's how our life was. I mean I lost track of how many times he was in hospital, I think he was in our local hospital at least 12 times last summer. So now it's wonderful to have a situation where, as Ian says, we can make arrangements, that I don't feel like a carer anymore, I now feel like a wife rather than a carer. ROSENBERG Not the greatest shot in the world but there you are. ATKINSON I can't see it, it's gone quite a way. ROSENBERG Not that far. GIDEON Let's see if I can too far, I've got to keep up with you. ROSENBERG Well we're all having a different type of life at the moment and this is what I really want for everybody else - this treatment really would save the NHS millions of pounds over the years. I mean the idea of playing golf, lifting my arms, walking, going up and down the stairs - it's just not possible that this could happen with such simple treatment, it is a miracle and I so much - so much want everybody to have the same opportunity. ROBINSON The inspiring story of Ian Rosenberg. Well as I mentioned this pioneering stem cell treatment was only available for people offering themselves as guinea pigs to a team in Germany. Now though heart experts at Barts and the London NHS trust have just been granted permission from their ethics committee to start a trial of this stem cell procedure here. It'll be led by Dr Anthony Mathur, a consultant cardiologist. Dr Mathur, have you been able to detect then real physical changes in Mr Rosenberg's heart? MATHUR Yes, we've been following Ian Rosenberg's treatment over the last few months and we're fortunate enough to do some very sensitive scans both before and after he went to Germany. And yes we have been able to demonstrate there has been some improvement in his heart function. ROBINSON Does anybody understand how these stem cells work? MATHUR Well no that's the big unknown we have at the moment, there's a lot of debate and controversy as to how these cells are of benefit but as you heard from Ian's case he's clearly derived quite a lot of benefit from it and it's our job to try and find out how to best optimise that and deliver it to as many people as possible. ROBINSON Well as I just said you now have permission to start this procedure in the UK. How many people will you be recruiting and who will those people be? MATHUR Yes well we've been fortunate enough to have been given the ethical approval to conduct a randomised control study to try and answer the question as to whether this treatment would benefit all, just in the way that Mr Rosenberg's had the benefit that you've heard about. Initially we've got approval to treat in the region of about 600 people. ROBINSON That's a lot of people. MATHUR Yes and the important thing is that these studies are done correctly so that we can actually come out with the proper evidence to show that this treatment does work and helps the majority. ROBINSON Now heart disease is a very common problem and there will be people listening who I imagine will be desperate to be part of your trial. Can you give us some guidance as to who will and won't qualify? MATHUR Yeah, because it's so new what we're looking to do is try and treat people who have heart failure and who have been told that really they're on all the treatment, they've still got symptoms and there's not really much else that's on offer. Which is really the way that Mr Rosenberg was, as you heard. And so we're sort of keen to hear from those people but essentially through their own cardiologists, having had a conversation with either their cardiologist or their general practitioners as to whether they feel they're suitable for this. ROBINSON So the important thing to do, if you think you might benefit, is to speak to your specialist and then the specialist will speak to you. MATHUR Indeed. ROBINSON We keep hearing, don't we, everyday and reading stories about major scientific advances and when you look at the small print it turns out that these are advances that may be decades away if they ever do happen - is this like that or is this real? MATHUR Well as you can - well as you've heard from Mr Rosenberg's story he's had the treatment and we're ready to deliver it and try and answer those questions. So we're ready to start looking at whether it's something we can deliver in the near future as a sort of treatment for everyone but we're ready to do that tomorrow essentially. ROBINSON Dr Anthony Mathur very best of luck, thank you for coming in. MATHUR Thank you. Back to the You and Yours homepage The ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ is not responsible for external websites |
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