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Richie is obviously young and ambitious. Sale have a good connection with Scottish players and i suppose he just wants to experience rugby in a different league. My guess is that he is getting offered quite a lot of money by a reasonably rich club that has been splashing out lately. Manchester isn't too far away and maybe he felt that France is another step that he can take later in his career. It is a shame to loose him but this move can surely only make him better?

Crazy decision in my opinion. Fully appreicate him wanting to try somewhere else, but Sale would not be the club I would have chosen if him.
Having said that I wish him all the best for the future.

i dont believe its about money, i see no reason for lineen, richie and the sru to lie about the fact they offered everything they could, when everyone knows we dont have the resources of other teams, they could have easily come out and said we cant afford to keep him, wouldn't be that much of a surprise.

I think richies always known he was going to the premiership and i wouldn't be surprised if in 3 or 4 years he goes to the top14 and maybe a stint in japan, i think he just wants to test himself in the top competitions rugby has to offer and good luck to him.

looking at the teams i think he's probably going to get more game time at sale than any other english club or french team.

being an edinburgh supporter i probably have a different view from glasgow supporters but i dont see this as a major loss, harley, kellock, ryder and cambell just now i would bring anyone of those players to edinburgh. Personally i believe duncan weir is the player who could truly be world class not richie.

Whilst it's sad to see him leave Glasgow it seems that it was a personal choice with no reasons other than wanting to play down south. As a Glasgow Warriors fan, it's disappointing that he's not staying for a little longer ( I think most of us knew he'd go at some point in the next few years). However, we have a great team at the moment, and dare I say it, we didn't really miss Gray when he was away with the Scotland team. We have a fantastic player and leader in Harley, Tom Ryder is an exceptional player who is making his mark, plus we have reliable and solid captain Kellock. Not to mention the fact that Nick Campbell is coming through the ranks. Also, Glasgow have had great re-signings this year with Jackson, Weir, Grant, Wilson, Fusaro and Harley seeing that Glasgow is the place to be.

As a Scottish rugby fan, I think it's sad, but as everyone else has said - no surprise. However, it is disappointing Richie has gone to Sale - he's not going to be playing in Heineken Cup semi-finals or finals there, or even Aviva Playoffs I suspect. We don't know what his other options were, but it doesn't say much for how Scottish players are rated in the big clubs if Sale was the best choice for our biggest star!!

Nevertheless I wish him (& his new club) every success, and I hope he proves all us doubters wrong....

How about another viewpoint? In a previous blog JB was asking how we make Scotland a better stronger team and how we promote Scottish rugby to a wider audience. Well maybe the move of one of our most promising players to a club which isn't too far away will help with these ambitions. (I can remember when the football team was called "Mac"chester United, such were the number of Scots playing in it). RG's decision was his to make but assuming he succeeds at Sale that will maybe help make one or two more people think there's something good about Scottish rugby, and maybe, just maybe we'll all benefit. His leaving Glasgow will open up a space for (hopefully) another young Scot to come through.

While we've only got two pro teams in the country we really do need to get as many Scottish players playing at the highest levels as we can, so from that viewpoint I'm all for having Scots playing for Sale, Wasps, Ospreys, Stade, Leinster, Munster, wherever. Just a slightly different point of view.....

Having said all that - I wish Richie nothing but the very best of fortune at his new club.

I think this probably says more about the standard of Scottish pro rugby than it does about Richie.
Certainly the week to week standard in England and France is better, and selfishly I'm glad we'll see him on TV in the Premier than him being in France where the coverage isn't quite as good.
Maybe he's left Scotland thinking that Sale didn't do Jason White and Chabal any harm?

All the best to him, and here's hoping he comes back to Scotland for the 6 Nations having improved as a player.

Why is Scotland's most marketable player walking out the door?

Think you answered your own question there, John - money and opportunity.

Despite best efforts the SRU could not come up with enough cash to keep him and the lure of the English Premiership beat that of Celtic League and being thrashed in the ERC and Amlin Cup.

He is young and has a fanstastic opportunity to make his mark in the premiership. If he does well then he will be a great asset, not only to his club but also to his country.

If this is a blow for Scottish rugby then it's also a blow for the newly rebranded Pro 12 league. It's not Scottish rugby he's leaving - Glasgow and Edinburgh don't play each other every other week - it's Pro 12 rugby he's leaving, and that's got to be a concern to Andy Irvine at the Pro 12 and the new sponsor RaboDirect.

Is the Aviva a better and more competitive league than the Pro 12? I'm not convinced, and those of us who follow Pro 12 can point to recent Heineken cup winners from the Pro 12 to suggest that its as good a league or better. I do however think that there's an edge to the Aviva as you know if as a team you get things wrong then relegation is a possibility and that brings its own form of pressure and intensity.

The newspapers are suggesting that his move is related to ambitions to play for the Lions, and his agent a former Sale player has stated that it's about career development. I'm not convinced with the argument that playing for Sale puts him in a better "shop window" than playing for Glasgow. He's already got himself noticed and potential Lions selectors would I'm sure have been keeping an eye on the young man no matter who he was playing for. Added to this I'd argue that it's how your play in the 6 Nations that earns you a Lions call up, and as he's almost guaranteed a starting spot in the Scotland squad I can't see how moving to Sale improves his chances of making the Lions.

Is there something wrong with Glasgow (either the City or the Warriors) that he felt he needed to leave? If he wanted a change of scenery, better weather, then he'd have gone to France, or even Bath. In the past Glasgow players have always talked about the team spirit and how Glasgow has something special - has this changed, I don't know, but I don't think it has.

Ergo - he's leaving because he feels that he's learned all he can from the coaches at Glasgow, from the style of rugby we play, and from the challenges he faces each week in the Pro 12. That leaves the question of why Sale? Having a friendly face in Richie Vernon may have been a factor, but Saracens were reputedly after him and he would know Kelly Brown from his time at Glasgow. Proximity to Glasgow ...may be a factor ... perhaps his girlfriend didn't want to move, perhaps give the choice of possible moves she liked Manchester the best?

Speculation will continue a pace. What we do know is that he's here till the end of the season, and that the attitude of the SRU to the pro clubs has undergone a transformation. So with every grey cloud there's a silver lining.

In a blog during RWC someone rightly listed the finals/cups that the Scottish team members had played in. From memory I think Nathan Hines was the only one with experience. Surely having our best players compete and play in the best leagues / cup competitions and get to the sharp end of these - closing out cup finals for instance - equips them better to help their country do better (v Argentina v England at RWC!!). Due respect to Glasgow & Edinburgh but when did either last play in a game that involved silverware and when are they likely to do so given the level of SRU funding available. We are better having our internationalists playing at the highest level (look at Argentina, Georgia, Romania, USA, Canada - all around our level these days) and put SRU funding into improving our domestic game. Gala v Melrose at the weekend had a crowd of 2,200 - the pro team averages are no higher. Build on that to improve the profile, fan base and player base. Let other countries py our pro players.

#11 You should check the RaboDirectPro12 website for crowd figures and you will see that the average gates for Edinburgh and Warriors are far higher than the average gates of either Gala or Melrose. Even Ayr at their peak cannot match Glasgow or Edinburgh at their lowest for average attendances.

The Argentina model has changed significantly over the last few years from a largely amatuer domestic game via a semi-pro setup to a full professional setup in preparation for joining the other SH nations in a new 4 nations tournament.

Wales have 4 regions and Ireland have 4 provinces, and both are above Scotland in the IRB rankings but their pro teams play in the same league and cup competitikons as ours.

To be amongst the best you have to play with and against the best. #11, if your ambition is to play with the second best then your plan will achieve that, but only just and for a short period as we spiral downwards.

Scotland have a long way to go after the last management regime's attempt to destroy the game in Scotland and we have taken the first steps by appointing a decent CEO and adding a test against Australia to next summer's schedule. Unfortunately, it came too late to keep Gray at Glasgow but I am looking forward to the SRU now arranging more and more fixtures against the top rugby nations in the world.

Totally agree with you John, and commentator N° 10 Theosportsfan.

It is a big blow for an impropable future Scottish success in Europe!
The big concern is, how could Glasgow and/or Edinburgh be a force in the HC like Munster/Leinster 2 HC titles each!!!

So Glasgow Warriors job is a gateway from Club rugby to pro contract, that's fine but no hope to build a potential force in Europe.

Irish success in the HC and 6N is the right example, they kept their stars to increase the crowds, spent money on two imports in each team to perform in HC, and kept in cotton wool (NO BURN OUT) their top players for Internationals.

About Richie move, at 22 (if not in charge of a family) France would have been a change of life style and good for individual skill development on drier pitches

Anyway, good luck to Richie a proud Glaswegian as he said.

While it's disappointing to lose such a talent, I'd agree with Andrew (#7) that to look at the positives, it frees up money at Glasgow to either retain other players, or to bring through another couple of young Scottish players. We suffer, greatly, in Scotland for only having two professional teams, and as we're in no position to fund a third one, why can't we let other teams spend their money for us?

A quick look on wiki gives us the following scots playing in the Aviva Premiership and the top 14.

Props
Bruce Douglas (Worcester)
Alasdair Dickinson (Sale)
Euan Murray (Newcastle)
Grant Sheils (Newcastle)

Hookers
Scott Lawson (Gloucester)

2nd Row
Jim Hamilton (Gloucester)
Aly Muldowney (Exeter)
Nathan Hines (Clermont)
Scott Murray (Castres)

Back Row
Kelly Brown (Saracens)
Richie Vernon (Sale)
Fraser McKenzie (Sale)
Ally Hogg (Newcastle)
Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester)
Simon Taylor (Bath)
Jason White (Clermont)

Scrum Half
Ross Samson (London Irish)
Rory Lawson (Gloucester)
Mark McMillan (Bath)

Fly Half
Dan Parks (Cardiff)

Centres
Alex Grove (Worcester)
Michael Tait (Newcastle)
Joe Ansbro (London Irish)
Max Evans (Castres)
Mark Bennett (Clermont)

Back 3
Simon Danielli (Ulster)
Sean Lamont (Scarlets)
Nikki Walker (Ospreys)
Hugo Southwell (Wasps)
Jack Cuthbert (Bath)
Rory Lamont (Toulon)


There are also a lot of young players playing professionally in the Championship in England too.


If all these players were playing in Scotland still, we wouldn't be having this discussion, as Richie Gray probably wouldn't have been signed by Glasgow in the first place! Think of it as having (essentially) a third pro team unfunded by the SRU, gives so many more Scottish players the opportunity to play rugby at a high level (indeed, look at Argentina, it doesn't even have ANY professional teams, yet seems to be doing well for themselves!)

I appreciate that having the players outwith the SRU's control does pose problems for national team training, but surely, the SRU could work as/with these players agents and get clauses put into contracts to enable them to attend more national team gatherings (try and preempt the problems Wales are having with their foreign stars).

Good Luck to Richie, and here's to finding a new player for the masks!

Sad to see him go - a great pity & a shame. Why has this happenned? Dunno - might it be down to money? And is there not a tradition of Scots at Sale? I believe this is the club Brian Redpath went to as a player, and later as a manager, and I think the owner is a Scot (an ex musician of some repute I believe). Certainly Richie Vernon is there, as well as numerous former Scottish Internationals in the past.

As Scots we can't take issue for one wanting to spread their wings and ply their trade elsewhere- making themselves better at what they do in the process. We are a great pioneering nation, and have very successfully spread ourselves far & wide for hundreds of years. But yes - why could Glasgow not have retained his services?? Certainly that would have been the best for Scottish Rugby. JB - you will know as well as anyone the state of the Finances at The Warriors, and if the funds were available (or not) to incentivise one of our brightest & most promising prospects to stay at home.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Do The All Blacks, Wallabies, & Springboks not have a policy of only selecting players who play on home soil as the ones to be given the pride of doning the national jersey? Certainly this was the policy the much maligned Matt Williams instigated when he was running the show at Murrayfield.

I agree with part of your blog John, i thought big rich would be signed by a French club and I was equally surprised to see him leave Glasgow for Sale. However, as others have pointed out in their comments, it is good for players to experience rugby outside of their own country. We have also benefited in other ways, look at Tim Visser. Edinburgh took him in under their wing and he's been the top try scorer in the Celtic league two years in a row. Would they have bothered if they had a squad full of Scottish internationals? Just be patient, there is a lot of young talent creeping up in Scotland just now and from AR's point of view I think it might pay off in the next few years.

Another player leaves Glasgow, what a shock!!!!! Why am I not surprised!!! He lasted 2 years longer than I thought he would. You didn't react this way when Max Evans left!!! Was it he wanted to go or had to go? I would say "had"!!!! SRU still want to treat the two professional clubs as feeders to the Scotland team. Which was well proved a month ago and isn't working big style.

If anyone notice from the list on comment #14 over half the players are ex-Glasgow, I wonder why!!!!!!!!!

"Oh oh we tried so hard to keep him", really!!!!!! SRU with your past record, your kidding no one.....

Kelly Brown's done alright for himself at Saracens.

Difficult one this. On the one hand, you could argue that the Irish and Welsh national teams are (and have been) playing the best 6 nations rugby and so playing against their feeder clubs in the Rabo 12 means he is, week in-week out, playing against top sides and players. On the other, Sale has significantly more resources at its disposal and the pressure that comes from bigger crowds and higher expectation may drive him to improve further, despite his obvious existing talents.

Can any one of us who played the game, honestly say they had no ambition to play at a higher level and moved clubs ? I did and did !!
RG is no different surely.
He has had a meteoric rise over the past couple of years and he moves to a side lying fifth in the English Premier who will bring him on - good choice in my book
After three/four years there " learning his trade " he , at 25/6 , can move up the ladder another level to virtually any side in the world and command mega bucks
I think he has made an excellent career choice and wish him every success !!!!

I have to agree with Philip and Alex. Richie, as well as being a great player with enormous potential, is a marketing mans dream. Frankly professional rugby in Scotland needs to develop and build their brand in order to reach out to a wider audience. They need top players with big personalities to achieve this, and only then will attendances start increasing. This also impacts the pro-teams ability to attract improved broadcasting terms and income, so losing players like Richie, Max Evans, the Lamont's, etc.. is really bad news in the short, medium and long term. The recent re-contract signings by Glasgow were generally for young players who are at the start of their careers and don't really have a big-value against their heads (they will be off as soon as their profiles and values improve).

There was lots of noise from Glasgow and the SRU on the subject and frankly the reason for this (i think) is because this was their 1st real test as a new(ish) administration and they have failed miserably. Unless the SRU can retain our top-players in Scotland, the pro-team P&L situation (5m net deficit) will continue or worsen, which fundamentally impacts our ability to invest in the grass-roots part of the game.

Not good news and i'm pretty unimpressed.

West is Best

It's a double edge sword at this time, I think with this publicity and the seemingly intent and money to try and keep him up here shows, I hope, the new determination of the powers at be in the SRU.

So we have a couple of years to convince the likes of Jackson, Weir, Wilson etc that we can compete in terms of salaries and also in competition.

Yes it's so disapointing to lose such a talent but again with the new endeavour we should find the bnew stars of the future, we are no different than Fitba in this situation.

Doesn't matter which premier club he goes to as long as it stays in the league. He will improve quicker than he ever would at glasgow. I do feel sorry for Sean as he regularly comes up with some great talents just to have them move on to bigger greener pastures.

One day the penny will drop. Scotland cannot afford pro teams.

Use the cash to grow the grass roots and club game, the very best players will be taken by English & French pro teams and come back to play internationals. just as Argentina, who beat us in the last 2 WC games. Our top players will be better for playing in a club with genuine competition for places, and hard games every week.

As somebody who is at Firhill for every home game I will miss the pro teams but 4000 or so bums on seats cannot support a pro team and never will.

Personally I think it's a good, if painful, move all round. The facts as I see it are
1. The Rabopro12 as a league in itself simply isn't as competitive as the premiership or the Top 14.
2. Whilst the Scottish sides are guaranteed Heineken Cup rugby every year they've never achieved much in it. Never getting passed the group stages and normally in the bottom 2 of their group.
3. A move to the premiership or top 14 therefore gives Gray more properly competitive games a year in a league where sides don't have one and a half eyes on the heineken Cup fixtures coming up. So he'll improve as a player.
4. It's a good move for Glasgow and Scotland. With limited resources and only two teams moving the expensive established players onto other clubs allows the Scottish sides to bring through younger players and offers genuine competition for places in the national side.
5. It's good for Sale as they get a very good player.

Why didn't he move to a bigger/French club? Well whilst he's a very good player he's come onto the international scene very quickly so perhaps the bigger clubs want a more proven article. Plus they'll already have top level players in his position. This way Grey guarantees himself a starting spot every week. Perhaps Scotland's poor run at the world cup didn't give him enough of a show case to be picked up by the bigger clubs. Perhaps Grey just liked the set up and vision of Sale? They've had a decent start to this season afterall.

Difficult one this. On the one hand, you could argue that the Irish and Welsh national teams are (and have been) playing the best 6 nations rugby and so playing against their feeder clubs in the Rabo 12 means he is, week in-week out, playing against top sides and players
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Highly debatetable logic there. England and France have won the last two six nations, it being 1st and 2nd place this year. Wales haven't been out of the bottom half of the table for almost 4 years. So it would seem that England and France are playing the best 6 nations rugby in recent years.

On a different note I think this highlights a Catch 22 situation at Glasgow. They need more resources and money to buy them in order to keep their big name players, like Grey. The SRU is skint so can't afford them. The best way to get more money in is to get more people through the turnstiles. People will be attracted by big name players, just like Grey, and winning competitions. So they can't hold onto the players without the money and probably won't be able to get the money with the players.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this blog - there will be various reasons for his move, but the main one will be 'shop-window' with respect to Lions selection. If he continues to play for Glasgow, how many times will he be seen by the vast majority of UK rugby supporters? Answer - about 3 times a year ...when Glasgow play an English club in the Heineken Cup and Scotland play England in the 6 nations. The media cover of the Galsgow games in the Rabo Pro12 is still dire - could anyone see the full game against Aironi recently? Only the diehard fans can see the majority of Glasgow's games - viewing on Alba, Ulster, Scrum 5 (Welsh channel) at various times... but you've got to look hard at the programme listings!

By moving to Sale he is guaranteed constant - UK wide - media attention. His games will be viewed weekly on Sky, discussed on Rugby Club and summarised in good detail on ITV. He will get 'British' national press coverage. All Sales cup games (should they be in the Heineken cup or Amlin Cup) will be viewed by large numbers of supporters (both English and Scottish). His exposure will be massive compared to what he has at present.

It doesn't sit well thinking of the Scottish game as a peripheral to the 'UK' game, but its the blatent truth. Until we get numbers up at games, more Scots palying and becoming fans of the game, or... heaven forbid ....have club success at a high level, this will be our lot.

Good call Richie. Best of luck and I look forward to watching your career develop (because I can now!).

John my boy - I think that the key feature of Richie's move will continue to be that there's a whole lot about the detail that we will probably never know.

Once the initial disappointment has dribbled out through our shoes, I hope that the following will correctly be the general perception:

1. Financially, the SRU and the Warriors could say in all honestly that they hyper-extended themselves financially to try pull this off. It wasn't for lack of trying.

2. Gray has already said he did not leave for the money. Why lie about it? Surely it must also be the case that the biggest wallets lie across the Channel and not in Manchester. He doesn't come over as an agent's puppet - let's give him the benefit of the doubt, shall we?

3. The SRU is not suddenly completely incompetent because they couldn't keep a single player that unfortunately Mark Dodson made a point of talking about as a marquee signing. Let's leave that judgement for if and when Glasgow cannot retain the services of Barclay, Beattie Jnr and Cusiter.

4. However you cut it, another space has opened up for another young lock to play regular top flight club rugby. This is what we need. We only have two pro teams for crying out loud. What else is supposed to happen?

5. The only really contentious thing is his choice of club. Why not join international colleagues like Kelly Brown at Sarries or Jack Cuthbert and Ian McGeechan at Bath? The truth is actually likely to be that Steve Diamond has yet again proven his worth at Sale as one hell of a salesman and businessman. What Richie has there is a guaranteed first team place, which he needs to be in the Lions shop window.

Having lived abroad for 15 years now - I am more of a 'glass half full' sort. We got Richie at Glasgow for four years and let's be glad of it. He's a proud Glasgwegian - let's be glad of that too. If Lineen hadn't spotted and encouraged him - six of one and pick em whether we'd even have the luxury of having this conversation in the first place.

And Scotland fans are hardly going to stop liking him just because he's in a different club shirt.

Hey ho. Onwards and ever sideways, and all of that.

Gray is a professional player and looking to maximise his career and his earning's potential. If in your amateur days you'd had this or similar opportunity I'm sure you'd have considered all the options and went SOUTH or to France!

Sale also has a charismatic owner in Brian Kennedy, who I'd surmise also was in on the "SALES" pitch.

I'd also expect a steady stream to go elsewhere by the end of the season depending on how good a Six Nations they have including Barclay and Beattie. This also will free up decent opportunities for the next raft of players to come through.

Marketing is about more than image it's also about product ergo player development!!!

Was saddended to hear this news when surfing the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ website in my lunch break. Probably shouldn't be surprised as it seems the trend Glasgow finds and grows the players then they move on. Wouldn't view Sale as a major club either. He is a good player and ambassador for the game so hope it goes well for him next summer.

Sean Lineen should be proud of what he is doing with the players in a couple of years or less; players go from unknowns to being in the Scotland squad. Just a shame there isn't the finance and other incentives to keep them. However, it also just knocks Glasgow back down with such a change in players, though it is great to see how the team has come on since the start of the season.

There's still a lot to do to promote the game and a lot more change/ innovation required by the SRU.

So who will be next to move???