³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

Great thing about the Browns demise is that few pundits are focussing on how bad the Chiefs are !

I have no problem with a coach instilling some discipline in his players, if you earn big money as a pro footballer then why avoid paying for a $3 bottle of water ?
In what is such a short season anyway (especially for sides like the Browns !) why not get them to commit to appearances for good causes.
Maybe the 20 hours on a bus is a reality check for some of the guys who have personal assistants, bodyguards and chauffeurs.

Mangini is no genius but he's no idiot either.
Where else could the Browns have looked ? Gruden is a big name successful coach but I kinda think there's a better job waiting for him somewhere.

Dallas v Denver, I can't see Dallas putting up 27 points against that D but I can see them winning the game.

Couldn't agree more - the Browns look absolutely rancid this season. You've also not mentioned that Mangini managed to fall out with the Browns best (only?) defensive player, Shaun Rogers, within about 4 minutes of being hired.

I can't see him lasting beyond this season.

Can't see Dallas-Denver being close. Denver are slightly better than expected, but I think their next 3 games (IIRC Dallas, Giants, Chargers) will stick them back in the land of .500 where they belong. Being in the same division as the Chiefs and Raiders will mean they easily finish second in the division though.

Surely an article remarkably similar to this appeared on CNNSI.com recently?

The Browns are terrible. Decision after decision has been wrong, ever since they re-entered the NFL 10 years ago. They have three players worth anything. Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers and Joshua Cribbs and they refuse to pay one of them what he´s actually worth.

It´ll be at least 5 years before they make the play-offs. And that´s only if either Baltimore or Pittsburgh become awful over the same period, which looks highly unlikely.

Mangini needs to go. And he needs to go now. The results on the field were always likely to be bad. But his decisions off it have been catastrophic.

It's still the Mistake by the Lake, but I disagree a bit about switching QBs. Anderson proved a couple of years back that he can hack it in the NFL, and Quinn has shown nothing of the sort. Of course it smacks of desperation to change QBs at this stage in the season, but it is not like Mangini is going with someone who has nothing on his resume. No idea who Anderson is supposed to throw to, or hand-off to, but we didn't know too much about Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow until Anderson started hitting those targets.

Denver-Dallas I think will be closer than you reckon - McDaniels with a balanced offense will be able to keep the Dallas defense busy, and Dallas are in trouble at RB so you can see them (a) having trouble finishing drives, and (b) seeing Denver going pretty hard after Romo. But the Cowboys are the better team in all departments, and I think they'll squeeze through 19-17 or so.

Didn´t know too much about Edwards and Winslow? Both were 1st round draft picks !!!

Quinn became the future of the Browns as soon as they decided to give up a 1st round draft pick for him. Anderson should have been traded at that time when his stock was highest.

The whole organisation is a shambles. Sadly.

The Browns had an early pick in the draft and took the big QB in that years draft (Quinn) to keep the fans happy because results hadn't been going well. What they needed to do was improve the offensive line because no matter who the QB is if he's no protection he'll get flattened every time. Using an early pick in the draft to sign a great offensive lineman was what they should have done but instead they went for the excitement of a new QB. Caving in to perceived fan pressure is never a good idea and doesnt say much about the team management.

I trust you! Still, of Mangini's many faults, I'd say the benching of Quinn for Anderson is far from his most serious.

On the topic of crazy coaches, was it Brad Childress who unloaded publicly on some rookie for going AWOL when he went to attend his mother's funeral? I know all these coaches have their moments, but this incident took the cake.

Mangini should have announced his QB weeks before the season started and then traded the other QB. It would have given a definitive answer to the Browns leader (whether it was the right or wrong choice is irrelevant). It would have shown confidence in the QB and gives the offense a leader.
The way Mangini did it showed a lack of confidence in Quinn and this situation was always going to come about; although I dont think Mangini thought it would be this early.

Personally I would have gone for Anderson because he can stretch the field and hopefully then when it came to the run Lewis would have had more space to work with.

Which leads me to the Browns biggest problem - Lewis although a great RB in his time is injury prone and has had a tough time recently (i dont believe he was fit for the start of the season). They have no respectable back-up to put in when Lewis isnt fit.

Considering there were a lot of Rb's avaliable in FA i feel the Browns missed out. Derrick Ward, Buckhalter, Lamont Jordan, Fred Taylor would have all helped the Browns out and allowed Lewis to get fully fit.
Even in the draft when they had already got a WR in the second round; they had a pick when LeSean McCoy, Shone Green and Glen Coffee were all avaliable.

Actually, the year we took Quinn in the first round we also took Joe Thomas to improve the offensive line. We took Thomas 3rd and then traded back in to take Quinn.

Quinn may be no great shakes but he has the potential to be something. Injuries have hampered him so far and if he's fit, he has to play.

Cleveland drafts terribly. Twice in the last 5 or 6 years they've used their 1st round pick on a CENTER !!! Though to be fair, most of their 1st round picks have proved busts or disappointments, not just those that are not in skill positions. Only Thomas goes against that trend.

I don't think picking Quinn over and offensive lineman was the problem for the Browns with that pick. They had already selected Thomas with the 3rd overall pick in the same draft. The problem was they gave up their 1st round pick for the following draft.
Another major problem they seem to have is getting pressure on the QB. Rodgers is a prescence in the middle, but he doesn't want to play for Mangini and he has little support from the rest of the front 7. Jackson's pretty solid at MLB, but it's more the job of the OLB's to get to the QB in a 3-4 and the Brown's players aren't. I'm loving the fact the Broncos are running a more successful 3-4 (so far) with one offseason of coaching and player acquisition than the Browns are running after several seasons to build it up.
I agree that Mangini is a plonker though. I've not been watching the NFL for too many years, but I've still never heard of a Head Coach keeping his starting QB a secret from own team heading into the first game of the season. Add to that his odd moves on draft day: he got very little for the 5th overall pick - a couple of Jets back-ups and a C. Then he proceed to pick 2 WR's with more glaring needs at several other positions.

For me the game of the week is the new super duper defense (New York Jets) against the still super duper offense (New Orlean Saints). Who cares about the Cowboys and the Broncoes, two formerly successful franchises ? ;)

I was in Cleveland earlier in the summer, and Browns fans were hoping that Mangini could do a 'Belichick in reverse'. Belichick, you will remember, started off with some success at the Browns before being fired after failing to capitalise on that. Four years later he was hired by the Patriots and turned New England into the franchise of the decade.

Mangini had a good start in New York too, but then failed to deliver when the team had arguably better talent in 2007 and 2008. Lerner clearly hired him thinking he was getting the 2006 Mangini. I think the key to this was that Belichick went back under Bill Parcells' wing after being fired by Cleveland and then worked out where he had gone wrong in Cleveland. Before Mangini even had time to reflect on being dumped by the Jets he had been re-hired. Next time I don't think he'll bounce back quite so fast.

Mangini's short tenure has turned into a dumpster fire. He's alienating his team and the fans quickly. His decision not to name a starter until right before the season opener was silly -- other teams have done so in order to force the other team to game plan for 2 QBs -- but that is usually when you have 2 QBs with vastly different skill sets i.e. a pocket passer versus a mad scrambler. Brady and Anderson are both pocket passers. Brady was something like 6 or 7 when he threw that pick that got him pulled-- hardly a reason to bench him in that game. And then Anderson comes in and throws 3 picks and now he's the starting QB. So much for developing Quinn. Talk about a schizophrenic approach. I feel bad for the Cleveland fans.

People in the UK watch American football?!?!?! Just out of curiosity how were you introduced to the game?

To be fair to the Browns QB's you could have Joe Montana under centre and it wouldn't make Braylon Edwards' hands any stickier, he's dropped passes that my wife could've caught.

I'm not sure the Cowboys are that much better than any other side the Bronco's have faced so far either, I think the Bengals are a pretty solid side this year and while the Bronco's did only just manage to sneak past them they did beat them and Romo seems a bit up and down this season, indeed he's had some periods in games where he's looked pretty ordinary. I expect the Cowboys to win but it'll be a tight game.

dolcem wrote:

People in the UK watch American football?!?!?! Just out of curiosity how were you introduced to the game?

By watching our Channel 4 TV channel when the NFL was first shown on British television back in 1982, I think it started. The great Frank Gifford hosted a weekly highlights show from New York for at least one season back in 1985, my fave game of all time was week 3 in 1986/7 season when New York Jets beat Miami in OT 51-45, the great Wesley Walker scoring the last 2 touchdowns in regulation time and overtime, I watched it again only last week, in fact, I have every season's week's highlights plus lots of LIVE games for every regular season and SuperBowls from 1985 to 2009 on video, apart from when the stupid devils went on strike and there was no season, 1987 iirc....LOL

I've also been to various cities in the States watching live games since the 1990's, when the London Monarch's ruled Europe supreme in the World League of American Football....

I can assure you that American Football is watched on television and listened to on radios in every continent of the world, and has millions following every regular season.

Just a small point, and rather late as well, but as a Villa fan I know that Randy Lerner did not hire Martin O'Neill. It was Doug Ellis' last act before he sold to do that. This article about Mangini does make me worry if O'Neill ever leaves though.

The fine for the water bottle is ridiculous. Better to have made him buy a crate of water for the team, or be waterboy at the next training session.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.