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'We broke the story last night.....but what's the truth behind Ruth Kelly leaving the Cabinet?'

Always a little intrigued how that works and why it matters, outside certain circles and pay grades.

Is there some investigative journalism at play, or just who happens to be on duty with the only national broadcaster around to share messages passed out at the time?

As to getting the truth from anything to do with this government, especially behind the locked doors of our 'Oh, I didn't realise this job would make juggling the family tricky until now' wooden Cabinet of all the talents, well, good luck with that.

I know you're trying.

APOLOGY - BROWN STYLE. SO LIKE BLAIR.

"And where (IF) I've made mistakes I'll put my hand up (IN FUTURE) and try to put them right. So what happened with 10p (NON-SPECIFIC) stung me (VICTIM) because it really hurt (VICTIM) that suddenly people felt (JUST THEIR PERCEPTION) I wasn't on the side of people on middle and modest incomes - because on the side of hard-working families is the only place I've ever wanted to be (鈥楨VER WANTED鈥� is not 鈥楨VER HAVE BEEN鈥�). And from now on (鈥楴OW ON鈥� IMPLIES: STARTING NOW) it's the only place I ever will be.

And so (APPARENT LINK TO FOREGOING) I want to give the people of this country an unconditional assurance - no ifs, no buts, no small print (UNLIKE THE ABOVE) - my unwavering focus is taking this country through the challenging economic circumstances we face (COMPLETE CHANGE OF SUBJECT) and building the fair society of the future." (JOB鈥橲 A GORD鈥橬!)

Brown must not be allowed to get away with this. We let Blair do it and he rewarded us with a bogus war.

In the contxt of last night's news item, and the continuation of it tonight, the present confrontation between Paulson and Congress over the $700 million nationalisation of sub-prime mortgage defaults clearly rumbles on. Needless to say, in addition to giving Gordon Brown a scapegoat for his own problems, it has provoked opposition at both extremes in the US. The Republicans, quite rightly, do not want to see their party allying itself with the greatest nationalisation project of all times. The Democrats, though, do not want to prop up the fat cats who created the mess in the first place.

At least everyone agrees that something is necessary, and it is only the fine print which is being argued over. gordon Brown can heave a sigh of relife. Or can he!

What nobody is doing is to look further; into the other problems due to emerge. The current issue is sub-prime mortgages. Even there the size of the problem may be up to ten times the $700 million being set aside; as some senators are already worrying. Beyond that though is the whole range of other debts. For just one example, Credit Default Swaps (CDS) are - as mentioned on last night's programme - something like a hundred times bigger (at around $100 trillion); and these are the very derivatives that few on Wall Street understand 鈥� but many fear will cause the ultimate crash. Paulson is barely scratching the surface.

Much as the 1929 crash reshaped global economics, not least through Keynesianism, the coming disaster may reshape our own future. Before the 1990s there were two main bodies of theory; Western Market Economics, which explained private markets, and Marxist Economics, which explained the structures of economic society. The latter was destroyed by the fall of Stalinism 鈥� remember Fukayama鈥檚 proud boast about 鈥楾he End of History鈥�. The former is now about to ingloriously destroy itself! Where does that leave us?

First of all, let us not neglect some of the lessons of these two destroyed pillars of economics. Adherents too often claim that it is all or nothing. In truth, most philosophies, even the most repugnant or silly, have some lessons to give us. Thus, market economics do give us some insight into markets, which will still represent a key exchange mechanism, and Marxist economics shed light on the structures (such those which are now destroying global finance) which underpin our lives.

Beyond these historical dinosaurs, however, there are other economic approaches; not least those which drive Islamic businesses. Above all, there are those of the mixed economy which eventually emerged from Keynesianism and are now linked to social democracy; and, in particular, to the EU. One irony indeed is that, as to be discussed by you tonight, Brown repeatedly refuses to consider public ownership of utilities. Yet our nuclear power will soon be largely owned by the French Government!

The new kid on the block, though, is China; which seems to have successfully married the extremes. In some ways it looks like Tony Blair鈥檚 鈥楾hird Way鈥� 鈥� but driven by a planned economy rather than by the markets. The key fact is that it seems to work, yet nobody is commenting on it or trying to learn any lessons from it.

This is the time, I would suggest, for the next great debate to start!

According to this morning's Glasgow Herald
'New York hedge fund manager John Paulson yesterday emerged as the only investor to retain a short position in the shares of HBOS since last week's clampdown on bets against banking stocks."

Paulson's hedge fund is apparently the only one that is advised by former Fed Chairman
Sir Alan Greenspan - who also serves in an
unpaid capacity as an advisor to Gordon Brown and HM Treasury even though his
other US clients are selling Britain 'short',
and he bears some responsibility for the
sub-prime mortgage crisis in The States.

Why don't you ring up Gordon Brown and ask him if he plans to now fire Greenspan?
Is it not a breach of civil service rules for a
Treasury advisor to speculate against one
of the major UK clearing banks like this???

" British Energy could soon be in French hands after the board of the power giant EDF approved a plan to buy it in a deal thought to be worth 拢12.4 billion. What's the story behind the deal?"

Why not interview the Prime Minister's brother Andrew Brown who is the EDF
PR chief - but take your geiger counter!

Canadian photo-journalist and campaigner Nancy Durrell-McKenna from "Safe Hands
For Mothers" would be a good person to
interview about maternal mortality - and
might also be able to point you towards
some interesting film footage about this?

Perhaps I am missing the point but to me if we are talking $1 trillion to sort out the mortgage mess and kick start the Western economies thats big.

But if there are $58 trillion of Credit Default Swaps that are looking "wobbly" then are the current measures any more than deck chairs being re-arranged on the Titanic (usually Gordon's preserve that word)?

Is we going down Captain?

The EDF item shows that "listening" Gordon, or is it "new" Gordon, has decided to have a public debate and then use French nuclear power station expertise to give us a new generation of waste that we still don't know how to deal with.

Is it me or is there not a passing resemblance between Gordon and the "bad" building society manager on the Nationwide advert who upsets all of his customers so they go elsewhere?

Will Phil Woolas continue with his GM debate after the cabinet reshuffle?

Why is Ruth Kelly leaving the Cabinet? Well she has reservations about the ethics of the embryo research bill (as indeed does
Des Browne the Defence Secretary - who
also abstained on that as I recall) and so
it is probably for that reason. But she was
also very close to David Miliband when he
was a member of the novitiate ... so hope
may still spring eternal that she may get
back into a Cabinet at some future date?
Assuming of course that she has a seat!

She also doesn't relate particularly well
to the general public and as a Treasury
Minister she bears some responsibility
surely for the collapse of UK pensions?
Her family will I'm sure appreciate her
time more than the ordinary voter will.

What else: South Africa?

There is no mystery or "plot" why Ruth Kelly is leaving. She has realised that she will lose her marginal seat at the next election. She's getting out before she is kicked out.

Just got my new pension statement. A rise of 拢20/month and a tax increase of 拢50/month. Nice one Gordon!!!

My wife's very small pension has suffered the same fate. Hers goes down every year whilst her tax goes up-yes she suffered the 10p tax theft.

My son who is deaf and low waged, less than 拢11,000/year with overtime included, finds he OWES the tax credit people due to their mistake. Gives it with one hand and takes with another.

Yes Brown's speech addressed all these issues and he promised to put them right. Then he wonders why the voters, (not my Labour acolytes, who are cocooned in the euphoria of a conference), still put Labour well behind the Tories who even haven't got any answers or policies.

As I wrote yesterday he will be gone after the May elections, unless we believe in miracles which should have been the tune played as he marched out of the hall.

BROWN'S GLOBAL GENIUS

So '10p Brown' (fool or knave, yet to be established) is off to America to design global finance for the future. If his input is as inept as the 10p miracle, will will end up longing for the respite that a little doom brings. This is a farce.

There is lots of backslapping in the financial world over what is seen as a fantastic deal for EDF. Which means the uk will remain one of the few countries NOT to have a two way grid and so free the ordinary people from energy slavery to multinationals. This is a national crime Labour have inflicted upon ordinary people. Lions and donkeys.

One view now is that its not who replaces Bush but who will, in a few months, replaces Paulson as the most important decision to be made now in America. A profile of possible candidates would be interesting.

7.Credit Default Swaps. They are still unregulated. They will mature and so expire in 2-5 years and so the current plan is to hope no one claims on them e.g by GM or Ford running out of cash [which is possible].

CDS dwarfs the Housing problem.

If firms [or even small countries -see pakistans debt problems] cannot get cash to service their debts they will go into administration [or be nationalised]. That will trigger the calling in of credit default swaps . So, next, we should expect to see bailouts of the large non financial firms happening soon to prevent triggering the cds.

The whole derivatives is about 480 trillion and we have at the moment a 1 trillion lifeboat. Not everyone is going to get in. Even they gave Paulson 10 such 1 trillion lifeboats the maths look 'challenging'.

The real [unspoken in public] opinion of the central banks of the situation is reflected in the gold price. Many think china bank was behind that massive move in gold.

The smart money, if it starts to see the cds unwind, will ignore gold and go for oil and food commodities.

Empires can and do fall. And a financial breakdown is usually somewhere in that. The short selling jihadis of course are saying its 'punishment' from God. They too [one presumes] are back slapping?

According to the South Mail and Guardian the Zimbabwe deal may stall following the forced resignation of Mbeki - and Mugabe
is off to New York to attend the same UN
Conference as his other nemesis Brown!

Forget the Catholic fundamentalism and " more time to spend with the children " spin, Ruth Kelly was probably forced to resign from the cabinet over the Brown governments Corporate Nazi position regarding the proposed Manchester Congestion Charge.

Ruth Kelly was in the impossible position of " pig in the middle " over a policy that most of her constituents were likely to oppose. She once even attempted to rule out future Spy in the Sky road charging, but Darling announced further ( 30 million ) funding for research in the last budget.

I suspect that if Ruth Kelly wants to stand any chance of retaining he seat at the next election she will oppose the Manchester Congestion Charge. She will have plenty of time to spend with her children if she looses her seat as an MP.

If Michael Crick doesn't pick up on this he is a waste of space.

#12 bookhimdano

Thanks on the derivatives. Think I'll hit the bottler later. Quite hard.

I agree with your sentiments about energy. I doubt the Tories will "do the right thing" but it would be a popular move to put some real competition in there and ensure security.

On a related note the carbon shortfall is due circa 2020 and we are nowhere near having the public infrastructure such as transport to compensate. Nuclear power won't move cars or planes.

Wasted years of blather.

Ruth Kelly isn't daft. The likelyhood of being re-elected at the next election is pretty much zero. Yawn.

So far as I know Tony Blair never picked up his congressional medal for services rendered with regard to Iraq.

As Dubya will be upset if he can't make a fuss of his pal whilst still in office perhaps Newsnight could ask why he hasn't collected it?

Brossen99
totally with you over the congestion charge for Manchester. Another con to part us from our cash. Go and visit London if you think it works. Does it heck!!

While Westminster fiddles, the Scottish Parliament was debating banking this
afternoon - sensible lead being taken
by Alex Salmond as ever on this issue.

The whole thing about the congestion charge is really about getting that 拢3 billion invested in our public transport. Greater Manchester's public transport system is on its knees, and without this investment, will stay so for a long time.

Why shouldn't drivers (including myself) contribute to making a better system for the whole area?

Nick Thornsby #20

You sound just like the type of eco-fascist Lib-Demmic who claims to support " freedom " yet are prepared to put your fellow countrymens basic human rights back into the 18th century. There are many people on minimum wage out there who are forced to use their car to commute to work, they already pay the equivalent of 10p extrax income tax ( fuel duty ) for the priviledge.

Bus fares are a complete rip-off and there is no evidence to suggest that they will fall on the introduction of a congestion charge. The area covered by the proposed Manchester scheme is massive, not just the city centre in London. congestion charging / road pricing is simply a scheme to force the relatively poor off the road, the object is ethnic cleansing by stealth. The result of alleged " green " transport policy is that the Corporate Nazis can engage in a spot of Corporate Ethnic Cleansing. If you can't afford the tolls or the fuel price you are forced to move home. No wonder city centre property developers support the introduction of the Manchester congestion charge. You can also bet that the politicians all have shares in the companies likely to benefit. There is a fortune to be made in the form of private tax for the in car equipment. The stock market parasites will make an imaginary fortune with a private toll road operating company plugged directly into the treasury. Its all false economic growth which by increasing the cost of living makes the British worker less competitive in the global economy.

If there is one thing which really gets my goat its ten bob fat cats who think that because they can afford extra charges everybody else should do the same. You are lucky to have a relatively high income ( whether you are worth it or not is a different story ), perhaps you should try living on minimum wage for a month and see if it changes your point of view.

So "Gordon Brown is going to New York to talk about the economy".

Shouldn't someone give the Americans fair warning? These few examples illustrate Brown's (in)capability:

Brown鈥檚 拢2 billion blunder in the bullion market
鈥淏rown was keen to throw mud at the opposition over Black Wednesday but this was a financial disaster on a similar scale.鈥�


Tax credit mistakes cost Joe Public 拢1bn a year


Carousel fraud 'out of control'
Losses reached an apparent peak in 2005-06 when, according to Treasury estimates, between 拢2bn and 拢3bn was lost to the fraudsters.



And this is the sort of society Brown want to create:
Labour minister says 14 year olds should get ID cards

Brossen99

I shall not take your comments too personally or one day I might end up as cynical as you. You clearly have a bit of a bee on your bonnet about this. The congestion charge is being introduced for two reasons. Firstly to pay for unprecidented investment in the area's public transport, and secondly to reduce congestion on our roads by forcing people to really consider whether it is necessary to use a car all the time.

Don't try and tell me that public transport is more expensive than driving, it clearly isn't. After all, in the delapadated state it is in now, why would anyone who has the choice use it if it wasn't?

And what do you propose happens instead? Should we leave transport as it is now, or do you believe all the investment should be paid for by general taxation? In my opinion those who clog up the roads on their cars, of which I am one, should have to contribute to investment in public transport- it is hypothecated taxation at its most effective.

And how can you be so arrogant as to presume how much I earn? For your information I am a student, and I work a significant proportion of the time I am not studying (on minimum wage) so that I can have the luxury of a car.

CAPABILITY BROWN (#22)

After his purported 'apology' for the 10p debacle, I am still waiting for him to meet the fool or knave question.

Did he know what he had done and just wade on, or did he not know . . .

Hello America! Sub prime Gordon is not a good risk with the re-jig of global finance.

Nick Thornsby #23/24

You are clearly under the influence of brainwashing into believing the " Corporate Illusion " but then the young are often foolish. The fact is that one third of the Manchester investment will be spent on setting up the toll road system. Likewise the forward running costs which are likely to significantly reduce toll revenue for future investment.

I find it strange that you do not fear the prospect of being tracked on every journey you make 24 hours a day. But then I currently consider myself to be a " Free Man " and I am prepared to defend my freedom.

Bus fares around here are over 50p per mile, I can drive my 1000 cc car anywhere for 13p per mile. It is impossible to make many journeys on public transport, perhaps when you cease to be a student and get into the real world and attempt to pay off your debts your attitude will change.

'11. At 1:18pm on 24 Sep 2008, barriesingleton
BROWN'S GLOBAL GENIUS

So '10p Brown' (fool or knave, yet to be established) is off to America to design global finance for the future'

-----

US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson rejected Gordon Brown meeting



-----

Do others know?

Well, perhaps they will but until then I shall stay contently under the brainwashing of this infamous 'corporate illusion'.

LITTLE BOY BROWN (#27 Junkkmale - thanks for link)

This is not the first time Brown has 'done a big' to fend off the fear of 'small'. Bluebottle has gone to USA to hold Neddy Seagoon's coat while the world is saved. How poignant that Blair's quest was for more and more 'success' adulation and status BECAUSE HE COULD NEVER GET ENOUGH TO FILL THAT INNER EMPTINESS and now Brown*, who so wanted to be the Blair he perceived, equally needy inside, is going through similar motions but without Dubya as a chum.

These are the sort of inadequate wannabes that party politics - by its very structure - will always bring to the top.

SPOIL PARTY GAMES

* That Brown wrote a book about 'people of courage' is highly significant.

29. At 1:06pm on 25 Sep 2008, barriesingleton

You are welcome, as they say, well, you know where (the country whose name must not be spoken out loud.. copyright JKR).

Anyway, in the spirit of gifts that keep on giving, a development:

'Gordon Brown's American friends'


I am just following this having opined a while ago that, in the great scheme of diplo-things, mouthing off left, lefter and even more left that it was everyone else's fault, and especially 'Shss, you know who's', was perhaps not going to result in open arms when you walk in the door whose doorstep you have been p**ping over continuously, especially in trying to deflect any scrutiny on domestic activities this last decade and their current consequences.

Just a thought, was all. Cripes, which media would go along with all that. Oo.. hold the home page... lookee, Mrs. Brown is with famous people, and isn't she luvlee....

$700 Billion Bailout

The Brown curse seems to be working for the US Treasury鈥檚 $700 billion bailout. Since he recommended it to everybody on Wednesday the deal seems to be collapsing.

The $700 billion bail out will not work and here鈥檚 why. If, for example, Goldman Sachs puts $1 billion of bad debts into the Bad Bank nobody will know whether it has all been put in. They may have another $5 billion they are keeping.

In fact, since the Bad Bank is likely to buy debts at a discount and may take a stake in the ownership of the bank, there is a big incentive for the banks to only put a minimum amount in and hope that sometime later the bad debts they are keeping will recover in value. Just another trick to try to restore 鈥渃onfidence鈥�.

To have any chance of working the Bad Bank would have to buy the bad debt at more or less full value or to make it clear that a bank only has one chance to sell its debts. Even this latter condition is unlikely to work as there is always another last chance in this crazy financial mess.

Ebenezer Bean
www.ebenezerbean.co.uk

What is the difference between the Zimbabwean dollar and the US dollar?

For 700 billion Zimbabwean dollars you can buy a decent meal in a restaurant. 700 billion US dollars will only buy a pile of junk.

ebenezerbean.co.uk

What is the difference between the Zimbabwean dollar and the US dollar?

For 700 billion Zimbabwean dollars you can buy a decent meal in a restaurant. 700 billion US dollars will only buy a pile of junk.

$700 Billion Bailout

The Brown curse seems to be working for the US Treasury鈥檚 $700 billion bailout. Since he recommended it to everybody on Wednesday the deal seems to be collapsing.

The $700 billion bail out will not work and here鈥檚 why. If, for example, Goldman Sachs puts $1 billion of bad debts into the Bad Bank nobody will know whether it has all been put in. They may have another $5 billion they are keeping.

In fact, since the Bad Bank is likely to buy debts at a discount and may take a stake in the ownership of the bank, there is a big incentive for the banks to only put a minimum amount in and hope that sometime later the bad debts they are keeping will recover in value. Just another trick to try to restore 鈥渃onfidence鈥�.

To have any chance of working the Bad Bank would have to buy the bad debt at more or less full value or to make it clear that a bank only has one chance to sell its debts. Even this latter condition is unlikely to work as there is always another last chance in this crazy financial mess.

..and giving...

'US reaction: Soros clashes with Brown over 'blank cheque' -

'

What's he over there for again?