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ERROR OF JUDGEMENT - MCDONNELL

McDonnell is alleged to have shouted: "It's a disgrace to the democracy of this country!"
He was referring, solely, to the third runway fiasco.
Close but no cigar Mr M. It is PARLIAMENT ITSELF that is the undemocratic disgrace. From the pre-selection of candidates, through pay and pensions to the rigging of business and the lies of Prime Ministers. The whole charade is an unmitigated disgrace.

We need a hero.

Tonight, we will probably be told all about the new runway at Heathrow...All the discussion is likely to take the "need" for travel and transport at the present (or growing) levels as unquestionable. Can we not recognise that spending such a large portion of our time budget on just scurrying around is silly?

" "Past a certain threshold of energy consumption, the transportation industry dictates the configuration of social space. Motorways expand, driving wedges between neighbors and removing fields beyond the distance a farmer can walk. Ambulances take clinics beyond the few miles a sick child can be carried. The doctor will no longer come to the house, because vehicles have made the hospital into the right place to be sick. Once heavy trucks reach a village high in the Andes, part of the local market disappears. Later, when the high school arrives at the plaza along with the paved highway, more and more of the young people move to the city, until not one family is left which does not long for a reunion with someone hundreds of miles away, down on the coast. "
"

And

" "The model American puts in 1,600 hours to get 7,500 miles: less than five miles per hour. In countries deprived of a transportation industry, people manage to do the same, walking wherever they want to go, and they allocate only 3 to 8 per cent of their society's time budget to traffic instead of 28 per cent. What distinguishes the traffic in rich countries from the traffic in poor countries is not more mileage per hour of life-time for the majority, but more hours of compulsory consumption of high doses of energy, packaged and unequally distributed by the transportation industry. "

In the future, historians will refer to this as the Age of Scurrying

Scurry on!
ed

Hello Gavin,
topical joke fit for an eleventy year old:
What kind of biscuits fly?

Wee plain ones..

The debate in the Commons was unreal - there was no discussion as to the availability of jet fuel to fuel the envisaged air traffic expansion. In 2050 carbon emissions will meet an 80% reduction target without any action by any agency as fossill fuel depletion will achieve it and alleviate climate change.

Around 7% of a barrel of oil produces jet fuel. The progressive introduction of more efficient aircraft would require a doubling of jet fuel supplies to allow a three-fold expansion in air traffic. Global crude oil production passed its peak in 2006 according to BP's Statistical Review 2008, so a doubling of oil production is an impossibility.

The greatest effect is the cancelling of aircraft orders which is already happening and the parking of redundant aircraft at Basingstoke has also occurred.

A Heathrow Terminal 6 will be a Marie Celeste crewed by the ghosts of the displaced Sipson residents without a pilot.

Ed, You have a point.

I used to watch 'Tomorrow's World' and marvel at how technology was going to deliver the 'leisure society'...

Seems we have been somewhat delayed on the road to that destination, or maybe we have been diverted to somewhere else entirely...

Oddly enough, I recently purchased a bottle of wine from a well-known supermarket that tasted as if it had indeed been microwaved.

Jokes for 2009? Hmm, I think there will be many about Brown, Darling and Mandy but, tragically, the joke will be on us all as house prices plummet by Japanese deflation levels leaving many an estate agent crying in their supermarket chablis: unemployment in the Private Sector rises to levels unseen since the days of Thatcher and "Get on yer bike" Norm - I expect all the ex-bankers will be getting into their Priuses and told to seek out work in 8-in-10 Public Sector Worker Wales and Scotland. Ironic that; no doubt we will be forced into bailing out the greedy car makers, all foreign owned, with billions of our taxes even though the greedy sods, in contrast to High Street retailers, have refused to drop their prices and...

...Come the Summer the Scots, Irish and Welsh will not be able to turn the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ on without wall-to-wall coverage of how England are going to win the Ashes by simply turning up... Oh, and millions will convince themselves that a Brit will win Wimbleyawn... although the corpoate boxes might be less full come this June and the potential collapse in strawberry sales might result in a bail-out out by a prompt, willing and helpful Chancellor... prompt enough to be just in time for the start of the footie season.

Other than that, I can't see many jokes in 2009 unless Brown decides to call a snap election, goes to the polls in a flash of "I saved the planet better than Wil Smith" ego and the British electorate collectively sticks their thumbs up to him, blows him a giant raspberry and hands him his P45. Now, that would indeed be a joke worth hearing.

Regarding the sticker seen on the bottle of champagne from a well-known supermarket chain: "Do not microwave," I must say, that sure tickles my fancy, just picture me laughing....
? I think they put it there as a joke.

Good for McDonnell, at least it's a start.

And good for Jon Snow on Channel 4 News who ripped another one for the Israeli Government spokesman who tried to equate the IDF's actions today with Nato operations in Afghanistan.

I don't think even Jeremy Paxman could have got close; and he's the only one on Newsnight with anything like the capability; everyone else thinks interrupting is "edgy" enough.

With a notable exception, it's all got a bit safe.

City States were supposed to have died out 500 years ago when the likes of Venice and similar went into decline. It appears though that I am now living in one or, to be more correct, the majority of us are living outside of one with seemingly our sole purpose being to pay taxes serve it - Londonium.

It staggers me why the Scots, Welsh and the English from the West Country and North of the Midlands are expected to travel hundreds of miles in order to fly long haul out of Heathrow or Gatwick. Most of us travel past perfectly good airports in order to do this, face substantial additional costs to those living in Londonium and usually end up paying to stay in a Heathrow hotel overnight or are forced to leave home about 2 or 3 in the morning.

Ah, but now the cunning plan is to make a high speed train route from Scotland to Heathrow, although no mention was made of the pesky Welsh by Hoon, which means that the Scots and Northern English will still have to pay a few hundred pounds just to get down South, will be faced with all the failings of the British Railway System and no doubt will have to hope that the train and airport time-tables coincide... or will still find themselves getting up in the middle of the night to catch a train to catch a plane!

I assume the Welsh, like the builders of Stonehendge, will be requested to get up early, pack a sandwhich lunch and simply walk to Heathrow!

Why on earth cannot we have long haul flights flying out of, for example, Cardiff and other regional cities? Such flights would free up Heathrow whilst at the same time bringing economic growth to the whole of the UK. Ah, but I forgot - the vested interests of the city state Londonium would not be best served by such a move. And we must all serve Londonium mustn't we?

You know what, I think I will opt out. I will give the getting up in the middle of the night and driving 5 hours just to get to Heathrow and then spending 4 hours in checking-in before I get on a long haul flight.

No, instead I will drive to my regional airport, fly to Schipol within an hour and then fly on long haul from there. Us Brits should all do the same and let the airports of Londonium be for Gordon, Boris and those still left in the City who stop the whole of the UK being a truly vibrant and prosperous economy!

I can't see what all the fuss is about over the third runway. It's not going to happen as judging by most comments on the Newsnight blog, a Tory Government is going to get elected, which will last at least another 18 years.

Then you will have decades of Public enquiries, and by then there will be no oil to fly the flipping aircraft.

At least I enjoyed another Hestletine-type attack on the Mace. All good stuff. Did you notice the body language of those who were sat behind Hoon? Arms folded is always a sign of unease.

At least it has given everyone to have another moan at this Government. You will all have not long to wait for your promised land delivered under Bullindon/Cameron Claque, as Private Eye calls it, from the Desk of my supreme leader.

Newsflash:

UN General Assembly president Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann: Israel breaching international law in Gaza.

Israel has been condemned and accused of breaching international law at a UN General Assembly session for its deadly military strikes on Gaza.

"Gaza is ablaze. It has been turned into a burning hell," said the assembly president, Nicaragua's Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann on Thursday.

"The violations of international law inherent in the Gaza assault have been well documented: collective punishment; disproportionate military force; attacks on civilian targets, including homes, mosques, universities, schools," D'Escoto added.

UN Deputy Secretary General, Asha-Rose Migiro, meanwhile told the 192-member assembly that UN chief, Ban Ki-moon, currently on a visit to Israel, conveyed "his strong protest and outrage" and demanded an explanation after Israeli shells smashed into a UN compound in Gaza, setting fire to warehouses holding badly-needed aid.

Other Israeli strikes set a hospital wing on fire and wounded two cameramen in a building housing international and Arab media outlets.

D'Escoto deplored the fact that the Israeli offensive, launched to stop rocket firing by Palestinian militants and now in its 20th day, was continuing despite a ceasefire call issued by the 15-member Security Council last week.

"It seems to me ironic that Israel, a state that more than any other owes its very existence to a (1948) General Assembly resolution, should be so disdainful of United Nations resolutions," D'Escoto noted.

After D'Escoto's statement, speaker after speaker blasted the latest Israeli attacks.

Malaysia's UN Ambassador, Hamidon Ali said the proposed resolution should call for a ceasefire, the immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, an end to the Israeli blockade of the Palestinian enclave and allowing humanitarian aid to reach victims of the conflict.

"It must also call for the establishment of a tribunal to investigate and to prosecute those responsible for the war crimes and crimes against humanity," the Malaysian envoy said. "Finally, sanctions must be imposed for non-compliance."

Palestinian UN observer Ryad Mansour meanwhile called for an independent investigation of Israel's "grave breaches and systematic violations of international law."


Meanwhile on Newsnight:

Lord (Digby) Jones a former government minister on why being a junior minister is a dreadful job...

"Put the cat out Ethel and warm up that Horlicks from last night, it'll be cold by now..."


Nighty night....Toodle pip.... :O)

"At least it has given everyone to have another moan at this Government. You will all have not long to wait for your promised land delivered under Bullindon/Cameron Claque, as Private Eye calls it, from the Desk of my supreme leader."

I doubt it Billbradbury. I am Welsh. Very Welsh await the return of the Tories save those who work in Cardiff Bay and who get their ipods and flatscreens on expenses!

Oh dear, at attempt at Welsh political satire that does not involve grovelling worship of the Welsh language. I should have renewed my membership of the Taffia when I was told to do so. Looks like a P45 for me soon.

The Government has given up. They tell us they believe that Climate change is happening as a result of human behaviour, yet they allow the go-ahead for a third runway, which will probably take air pollution in the surrounding area above legal levels, and will mean the demolition of an entire village. It is truly a disgrace. And what's more, (and I'm sure Barry will have noted this!) not one of our 'principled' ministers have resigned- not Ed Milliband and not even Hilary Benn, whose frontbench career is probably nearly over anyway.


To pick up on your amusing Champagne label, last year I saw a label on a bottle of bleach that read:

"Do not point bottle at face and squeeze" hmmmmm.

Trident replacement.

I was interested in the headline story about the fact that a number of senior ex-military people wanted to reconsider the replacement of our nuclear deterrent.

Then you said that it was three ex-Army generals.

What a surprise - the Army doesn't want money spent on the Navy!

Non-story.

Not impressed with the old Generals and Air Marshalls ranting on about the nuclear issue - everyone knows they are jealous of the Navy having the bomb. What was that 'Yes Primeminister' sketch about the RAF and the bomb - "...Do you really want to leave the defence of the country in the hands of a bunch of glorified car mechanics?"!

Al Qaeda is not always going to be our only enmey. States accquiring the bomb now, or within a decade, may well be our enemy in 10, 20 or 30 years time. Frankly, I am more concerned about all the Generals who think that we will never have to fight a full-scale conventional war again - isn't that what MPs, Generals and others thought after the Great War?

Anyhow, everyone knows that if you want to cut costs in the Defence Budget that you can do it quite easily - either give them a gun, a parachute and drop them on Tora Bora or simply fire the thousands of Colonel Blimps in the MOD!

Re: The Join The Debate logo that just flashed up. How can we possibly have a debate about what is being discussed on the programme if it takes 25 minutes to moderate a post?

The help page states:

Pre-moderation - every single message is checked before it appears on the board. All of the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳'s children's message boards are supervised in this way.

Post-moderation - all messages appear on the board first and are checked afterwards. Most ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ message boards are supervised in this way.

Reactive moderation - messages are only checked if a complaint is made about them. This approach is only used on boards for adults.

Newsnight is shown late at night and it's audience is clearly adults. So the default for this board should be Reactive moderation, not the type of moderation designed specifically for children.

And if you must treat us like Children, at least have a moderator dedicated to this board while the programme is actually on air so that posts can be moderated quickly and therefore facilitate a genuine debate!

During tonights discussion about Heathrow's third runway, it was stated the competitive hubs are further away than Heathrow is to London. Not true. Frankfurt airport is 12 kms from city centre, Heathrow is 26 kms from Picadilly!

Lord Jones is both wrong and right. His criticisms of the civil service are of a part of it, the senior Civil service, not the foot soldiers, civil servants all, who work in places like the Border Agency, DWP, and so on. These are badly paid, and fairly powerless, compared with the senior CS, the target membership of the FDA.

In respect of these, I think Lord Jones is quite right. They should be far less certain of their tenure, in my view. Those who fail should be dismissed, and not simply moved sideways where they can continue to fail in a whole new area.

In fact, I bet that Lord Jones' limited term of employment (18 months) and absence of career ambition probably made him a much more even-handed and judicious servant of the government and public than the ambition-soaked mandarins he found so depressingly difficult to work with.

NickThornsby (#13) Yet nobody really questions how it can make sense that if pupils today get 5 x A-C grades at KS4 they have a 10x better chance of going to university than pupils a generation ago....

Hi Gavin

I have an anti frost front windscreen cover made of dense black nylon. On the box it says Caution: Remove before driving.

I''m no fan of the Heathrow extension, honestly I think the investment is needed else where, it can cost an extra 80-90 GBP it you live near a "provincial" airport to get the transfer!

Major buiding projects needed to "stimulate growth", as advocated before christmas, to help the financial system (don't get me started with these (B)*ANKERS). (Hint 1)

BAA (Spanish really) are under pressure to OWN less UK Airports. (Hint 2)

Terminal 5 - claimed the needed space not the air capcity, soon as this building was allowed then they pusged for the extra air space they claimed they did not need! (Hint 3)

Who here does not believe that the "capped" extra capacity of CO2 is not going to be transferred to older terminals, i.e. the latest planes for B.A. (and other) with the low CO2 will be put on lines to the new airstrip, the older planes all shunted to prior airstrips?


(Cor, my longest ever rant, they must be doing something wrong).





Generally who will benefit,
- the contractors (fair play to them)
- BAA, more consessions and fees (Pay REAL taxes you B'stards)
- BA, if you cannot win fairly get the government to bail you (CONCORD!)

_ Travellers - your baggage will go further, but you will stay in Heathrow!

A PROMISING START

Politically expedient promises about flight numbers, noise, pollution and even the specification of planes using the third runway, were all voiced today. But no word was spoken of CONSEQUENCE for minister or party making the promise, IF IT IS BROKEN. I doubt there is a believer in the land. The only MP I am aware of who chose to resign, having failed in a pledge, was Estelle Morris (whom Pope Tony informed she need not keep her word, as "there are ways"). The image of Geoff Hoon saying: "I have misled the people of this country, I will resign" is the sort of thing that keeps me awake in the small hours.

"NOT EMBARRASSED" SAYS RICE

"Olmert said Monday that Rice had been embarrassed by orders from President George W. Bush to abstain from voting on the cease-fire resolution that she was negotiating. Olmert said he had called Bush - and interrupted him at an event in Philadelphia - to ensure the United States did not vote for it."

#23 JadedJean

More unprejudiced analysis from the poster who thinks Hitler made a few mistakes but was a pretty good guy who did some "bad things". Not really sure that the Holocaust happened.

I assume this post is here because you, mistakenly, feel that with your innate intellectual superiority you must illuminate those that have managed to glean that Hitler was an evil monster.

But then you think that I am an "anarchistic Trotskyite" and that I seek to portray Hitler in the worst light possible.

Of course you are not a Nazi or a member of the BNP.

Your Lordship,

"Seems we have been somewhat delayed on the road to that destination, or maybe we have been diverted to somewhere else entirely..."

Note the irresistibility of the

And kashibeyaz,

"And good for Jon Snow on Channel 4 News who ripped another one for the Israeli Government spokesman who tried to equate the IDF's actions today with Nato operations in Afghanistan."

Seconded!


ed

thegangofone (#24) "But then you think that I am an "anarchistic Trotskyite""

Correct, although I suspect you have little insight into this. Others can help you here.

"and that I seek to portray Hitler in the worst light possible."

Yes. It's the statism and loss of 'freedom' which appears to disturb you. Think of unruly children.

"Of course you are not a Nazi or a member of the BNP."

That's correct. Although I'm not averse to statism, Socialism in One Country or even 'National Socialism'. In contrast to 'nazism' whcih is a caricature produced by 1940s propaganda (and Hayek's anarchism in 'The Road to Serfdom) I see National Socialism/Socialism in One Country (Stalinism) as essentially what Old Labour began implementing in 1945. This provided us with the Welfare State supported by a strong Civil Service. This has been progressively dismantled in favour of privatisation, anarcho-capitalism/Trotskyism and the Balkanization of Britain in favour of fragmenting the UK into prospective EU statelets the size of regions (6m) which I think is at the root of many of our current problems.

wanabee07 (#11) Amidst all the distraction stories, thanks for posting something newsworthy and substantive. The media's feminized human-interest coverage of a plane ditched in a river is telling and disturbing given lack of coverage of this UN sitting.

As :

"A vote on the draft resolution would come Friday at the end of the two-day session.

Israel and the United States, its main ally and a veto-wielding member of the Security Council, have long complained that the assembly is biased against Israel.

Hours later, Israel's U.N. Ambassador Gabriela Shalev went on the offense, calling the meeting "deceitful," "hateful" and "cynical.""

To many, that's unbelievable, but to them I suspect it's all too prevalent, scotoma driven, chutzpah.

It appears obvious to me that if any state which thwarts the USA's PNAC neo-con/anarcho-capitalist agenda to export Liberal-Democratic 'freedom' to the world (I suspect this is solely so the USA has more markets within which to spread its ) it's branded a rogue state which supports or fails to deal with terrorists. They even got China to do this. The USA/UK governments are even trying to next, unborn, generations to domestically indebt/enslave themselves with this toxic waste whilst a few reap the profits. Most people are sadly just too dumb to see this for what it is.

PARANOID?

Erratum "The USA/UK governments are even trying to [get the] next, unborn, generations to domestically indebt/enslave themselves with this toxic waste whilst a few reap the profits. Most people are sadly just too dumb to see this for what it is."

This is why engineered dysgenesis through a) mass immigration from S Asia and Africa (cf. Frattini's EU policy of 20m more in the future to make up for the birth dearth) and b) prolonged education for the top half of the IQ distribution (which increases differential fertility by delaying motherhood in this group). This makes it easier for those who intend to profit as the electorate is progressively dumbed down and unable to see through the spin/corruption .

See Russia (TFR about 1.2) for a recent example of what's slowly happening here.

It's being very cleverly (and legally but venally) done. Legislated privatisation of profit and socialization of risk.

JJ #27
"Most people are sadly just too dumb to see this for what it is."

We're not all that dumb as many posts here witness. But we ARE powerless, 'they' have seen to that. At the risk of getting boring and repetitive "on the Newsnight blog, no-one can hear you scream". Wanabee07 points that out very clearly at #11. We can continue to bicker here whilst waiting for Barrie's hero to arrive but where does it get us?

Westminster stinks. This morning (Today R4) it was announced they no longer have to justify the cost of their second homes f'rinstance, didn't last long did it? Do you think a few kegs of black powder in a cellar somewhere might help?

civil service cut in half?

what about the bbc? given a defacto 4 day week in many sectors and pay cuts and a contraction in the economy should not the bbc also contract with the rest of the economy.

given 18m Ross will be parading again soon its just looks obscene? still stuck in a boom time mindset?


Digby

should people made peers just to serve in govt give up the peerdom when they leave? after all it was just a device to get them into govt?

bookhimdano (#30) "civil service cut in half?"

State-busting anarchism.

"it was just a device to get them into govt"

More state-busting anarchism.

On the Matter of Waterboarding? Is that anything like I note that, taking a leaf from another book, the

"Federal investigators are pursuing early indications that the US Airways jet that crash-landed in the Hudson River was struck by geese"

Now that


ed

NewFazer (#29) "We can continue to bicker here whilst waiting for Barrie's hero to arrive but where does it get us?"

Maybe just a bit further than NOT "bicker[ing] here whilst waiting for Barrie's hero to arrive"?

What else can one do in a democracy other than say as one sees it and hope that others join in and corroborate/correct?

Ed Ingelhart (#32) Good link Ed, but I don't believe the thrust of this:

"Here in America, we Jews are thoroughly assimilated into the mainstream of society and hold positions of power and influence in every field of endeavor. We do not need to be in a defensive mood anymore. We can afford to change out attitude from "is it good the the Jews?" to "Is it good?""

On the contrary, these dissenting groups and high profile individuals simply serve to focus power and further deflect criticism, i.e they make it harder for others to be outright critical of the opportunistic game played in the self-serving interests of the entire group.

For a trivial example, look at the campaign for funding for breat cancer research, and look at the prevalence by ethnic group.

On the Hudson coverage - given what's being discussed by the General Assembly in NY, and other, bold, if , gestures .

"More likely, experts say, is the establishment of ad-hoc tribunals of the kind created to deal with the war in the former Yugoslavia and the genocide in Rwanda.

"If there were the political will there could be an ad-hoc tribunal established to hear allegations of war crimes," Falk said. "This could be done by the general assembly acting under article 22 of the UN charter which gives them the authority to establish subsidiary bodies.""

kashibeyaz - "breat cancer" There's a new one to keep you busy ;-)

Jean,

"
Ed Ingelhart (#32) "

Who he?

"Good link Ed, but I don't believe the thrust of this:

"Here in America, we Jews are thoroughly assimilated into the mainstream of society and hold positions of power and influence in every field of endeavor. We do not need to be in a defensive mood anymore. We can afford to change out attitude from "is it good the the Jews?" to "Is it good?"""

What part of it don't you believe? Every part is true, whether the stated hope is lived up to or not.

"...they make it harder for others to be outright critical of the opportunistic game played in the self-serving interests of the entire group."

Here you verge on equating the "entire group" with the militant Zionists - an unattractive (and unhelpful) form of debate.

The same (or similar) thoughts were expressed by some

"Whether the Jews be regarded as a "race" or as a "religion" it is contrary to the democratic principles for which the world war was waged to found a nation on either or both of these bases. America, England, France, Italy, Switzerland, and all the most advanced nations of the world are composed of representatives of many races and religions. Their glory lies in the freedom of conscience and worship, in the liberty of thought and custom which binds the followers of many faiths and varied civilizations in the common bonds of political union. A Jewish State involves fundamental limitations as to race and religion, else the term "Jewish" means nothing. To unite Church and State, in any form, as under the old Jewish hierarchy, would be a leap backward of 2,000 years. "

Plus cs change....pity they weren't listened to more...


ed

Ingelhart - You I think. I knew I'd do that even though I'd made an effort not to :-(

Faireness? I don't think intentions matter much. These are just decoys, flares dropped to confuse. One has to look at entire groups for how evolutionary group competition plays the game for hegemonic advantage, pretty as Israel does when 'operating' in Gaza.

In the meantime, Mayor Bloomberg does his bit by milking 'Miracle on The Hudson' with true Hollywood flair as the UN General Assembly down the road discusses the possible indictement of Israel for war crimes..

You know the NYC demographics. Most people don't.

JadedJean Memsahib/Sahib;

#36 "breat cancer research and look at the prevalence by ethnic group."

I come back from field and see message but is easy one this time.

Is two mistake; "break dancer" research not need funding; I tell you now all happens in Wigan, go see now at club, please?

#38 JadedJean

You wouldn't be much interested in fairness anyway. All of that soppy democracy.

Hitler and Mussolini, race "realism" (which usually emerges as "racism" hence your interest in NYC demographics) and "big government" is all you ever allude to indirectly. Of course you can't be direct and honest can you. You could get arrested I would think as you verge on instigating racial hatred. I do hope the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ pay attention to that.

Vile, failed, false arguments based on pseudo-science and deluded hatred.

So when do you think people of your ilk will be taking over?

Is this describing injuries from M85 DPICM or some other as well as WP 'smoke' rounds? Although, as Israel hasn't signed up to any agreements banning their use, nor to the ICC, I guess it doesn't matter either way, legally speaking?

thegangofone (#40) Do you realise that you are describing your behaviour, not mine?

You continue to demonstrate that you are unable to observe and analyse empirical facts objectively. Why don't you try to learn to do so?

Go1 #40

Why do you think this is a place for personal abuse?

Blogdog, does this behaviour not contravene house rules? There was no real content to this post, it added nothing to the discussion. It was nothing more than gratuitous insult. Note I have not requested that this post be removed, better let it stand so we may all see the true, vindictive nature of the author.

thegangofone (#40) If you look carefully through some of the above posts today (and earlier), you'll see this classic tactic being aired in the context of Israeli/Jewish propaganda - i.e where personal attacks are justified as defensive reactions to some real or imagined wrong-doing by a perceived enemy or competitor. Whether the named behaviour is in fact a consequence or cause is moot.

What you appear to be doing repeatedly is stooping to the ad hominem (the other side of which is to laud celebrities, which is equally irrational). Try instead to look at the evidence, rather than to the person who presents the evidence, and try to ignore what you imagine they personally think, feel, believe, want etc.

Triumphs in Diplomacy, Condie's last ride...

"The US and Israel have signed a deal to halt the smuggling of arms into Gaza, in what Israel's foreign minister said was an important step towards peace."

Compare and contrast:

""We know that the Wehr Elbe, a German-owned cargo ship left the USA on 20 December 2008 with a large consignment – 989 containers - of high explosives and other munitions destined for Israel," said Malcolm Smart, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme.

"Hired and now legally controlled by the US Military Sealift Command, it was heading for the Israeli port of Ashdod and was due to transit via Greece, though its latest reported position indicates that the shipment's route may have changed."

Tenders for two other arms shipments totalling 325 containers of US munitions were approved by the Pentagon on 31 December, four days after the start of Israel's current attacks on targets in Gaza."

ed

DEAL?

Rice and Livni sign an 'agreement' to stop Hamas 'smuggling' arms into Gaza. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Palestine, is clearly not allowed to arm itself as Israel does, in fact, any effort to do so is described by Israel (and the USA) as terrorists 'smuggling' in weapons.

How can we take this verbal/political duplicity of Israel and the USA seriously whilst ignoring what the UN and the rest of the world is saying? Clearly, if Hamas is disarmed, there would be a ceasefire given that Hamas wouldn't have anything to fire i.e defend itself aganst Israel's occupation, blockage etc etc.

Hamas are an elected government, no dodgy chads or illegal elections for them, not too mention illegal wars....

I still check this site as the introductory topics are still often well worth noting and can indeed be worthy 'scoops'. And some comments can offer either valuable links or opinions that, even if I may disagree with them, advance my understanding.

Others, of late... not so much. So commenting becomes less and less worth engaging.

It's the curse of the moderator to walk the line between freedom of speech and policing time-wasters, wafflers, trolls and professional saboteurs 'fairly'.

Many comments are often well considered and, crucially, based around well-support fact, with some great onward links. If I had a critique, it would be when some lump those who have certain views in 'groups' too easily just for having other views. Or ad hominems that weaken any other aspect, no matter how valuable, severely. And, possibly, explain why genuine debaters from other viewpoints may no linger as long as one might hope to see if the power of argument of opposing sides can be resolved. It takes guts to go into a Lion's Den.

As I'm no IT expert I know this is a suggestion based possibly in impractical fantasy land, but after suffering as a user and vicariously as a blog owner the travails of many sites, I was wondering if it were possible to run a two track side-by-side or perhaps colour coded traffic light style system.

It's still a compromise, but uses the power and expandability of the internet in ways Voltaire might see merit in.

All posts go up, and hence are not 'censored', but those that really seem to be contributing little (or detracting) could be either sidelined or at least flagged for folk to check, and indeed still engage with (I really don't like some sites that have all sorts of threads spinning off, but can see this working on the basis that if the first is not really doing much, anything subsequent, even reasoned rebuttals, are unlikely to go anywhere of much value, which is how trolls thrive), at their leisure.

The flagging could be down to the site owner/moderator, and/or tipped off or supported by site users in much the same way as any 'Report this comment/recommend' links are used on such as Guardian CiF. Only without the oblivion aspect to the former that many champions of press freedom can impose when it suits.

I for one would value an amber or red hue when the owner and/or many others think things are not faithful to the site rules or mission, and then would have the option of skipping over easily... or checking the culprit out if still so disposed. I do it now anyway when certain names appear.

It's just a very top of mind thought. One designed to help any site that deals in heated issues, to try and keep temperatures down (or at least properly vented) and debate values maintained with site reputation free(er) from those who would seek to compromise it though pushing to discrediting extremes.

There are some fine minds as well as some savvy IT bods here, so I am simply interested in whether it's doable or indeed desirable. I have broached this elsewhere and have been directed to the new site which has something like this by 'keeping' 'Trash' messages. Mind you, those that have so far ended up sidelined offer insights into the the mindsets at play - poster, objector and moderator - but it shows what might be possible.

Maybe not perfect, but possibly a way to allow those that maintain a silent interest to have more influence than those who tend to dominate and can often be rather offputting in their 'firmly held' convictions.

Head ducks back down behind parapet.