³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

Gordon Brown has now got a big problem with Damien McBride.

It's noticeable he was allowed to resign rather being sacked. Presumably that not only preserved his employment record but also his civil service benefits.

He is now a bomb waiting to go off as being at the centre of the hatchet gang at Number 10 he knows where the bodies are buried.

No doubt he will be found a spot in the House of Lords!

I think there are two VERY important things here.

There has been a history of slurs and made up accusations, often sneaked to journalists over late night dinners (pre emails) that encompasses EVERY political party. There is nothing new in this - it is an example of how nasty many people involved in politics can be. The public think that that includes everyone.

Secondly, I think EQUALLY as scandalous is the fake "Shock Horror" being expressed by the Tory party in a pretty nasty attempt to make political capital out of it.

We all know that when these emails came out, Tory central office burst out laughing with pleasure at the thought of all the capital they would make from this - that is the TRUE reaction (and would have been also true if the situation had been reversed)

We DON'T need McBrides in politics, and we also DON'T need organised political opportunism - that turns people off politics even more than sick emails.

I don't know which idiots advise politicians on all sides, but if Brown had risen above it and condemned the mails (which he did) and if Cameron had reacted in the same way and said "no party leader should accept this, I am glad the man has resigned," then politics as a whole would have looked better for it. No apology was needed from Brown, all that was needed was that he recognised this was really off base and do something about it - all boxes checked on that one.

As it is, BOTH sides just look sordid and stupid and the Tories in this case are just playing to the camera for votes.

Please read this to them. I would LOVE them to come up with a convincing repost.

After police bail all 114 people arrested at the weekend for planning a protest on a power station in Nottinghamshire, Tim Whewell reports on a new police tactic which could curb direct action style demonstrations in the UK. Is this a new assault on our civil liberties?

I think it is a start on the road of assaulting on the civil liberties....

~Dennis Junior~

#2 GuruBear - if you think that first suggesting it was merely a juvenile matter of silliness, as No 10 and Derek Draper did, and then only late on Saturday allowing McB to resign shows that Brown has 'risen above it' you don't understand the issue.

The Tories perhaps have briefed in unpleasant manners before - but I am not aware of any case of them hiring a consultant at our expense, letting them have full civil service employment benefits and salary and pension, while also using them for purely party political purposes. The reason I'm pretty sure of this is, if there was even the faintest indication of it, the Labour party would have pointed it out ad nauseam over the weekend.

I am no Labour supporter, nor Tory either. I am a free voter. And I will tell you this for nothing - McBride has proved to me just how deeply nasty the Labour party has become. Apart from the appalling degrees of greed and corruption - I don't think those are unfair terms to use - highlighted by the snouts in the trough cases recently, the Labour mob has more or less destroyed our civil service by holding meetings off-record, not taking minutes, and delegating duties to a degree never seen since the middle ages in our country.

They have an appalling urge to control all of us. And they will lie and smear anyone to retain power.

If you seriously believe the Tories have ever behaved in this kind of dishonest manner, I'd love to know when.

As it is, I am urgently considering leaving poor old Blighty for good. This poor little nation doesn't deserve this kind of government, but with the police able to kill without fear of punishment, and able to use anti-terrorism laws to assault any group, from protestors at a power station to the two seriously dangerous ladies who dared read out the names of British war dead at the cenotaph, we are looking now at a country in which the public have fewer civil rights and more government surveillance than Hitler or Stalin could have dreamed of.

Orwell must be spinning like a top.

Yes David Cameron may well be outraged by "E-mailgate" and yes he'll milk it for all its political worth, because what Mr McBride has done, is hand Mr Cameron the keys to Number Ten, lets face it, if it wasn't clear before "E-mailgate" it's crystal clear now, that the caretaker Prime Minister will soon be booking the removal lorry, I just can not see how Mr Brown will get out this one and become an elected Prime Minister, what McBride was thinking of when he came up with this smear campaign? Heaven only knows, I assume McBride thouhgt it would all start coming out a few weeks before the country went to the polls, thus swinging everything Brown's way, ooops! it will save the Tories a shed load of cash, because they are 99% certain to be elected home and dry, even before any election campaign starts, only divine intervention can save Mr Brown from a landslide defeat now, whether he says sorry or not,Mr Brown will be very sorry he allowed his top adviser to start a smear campaign against the Tories, and if I'm wrong about this I'll eat this Computer DaveS596-XE1

Never mind focusing on politicians behaving like idiots, this is not news!

More evidence of police violence against protesters early this moth coming to light, mass 'pre-emptive' arrests of environmentalists on top of the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳'s pathetic reaction to the death of Ian Tomlinson.

Whilst our coppers become more Stasi like, our state broadcaster apes the Deutscher Fernsehfunk.

If our politicians and police are as out of control as they appear to be, it's about time the smug careerists at the beeb shook of their torpor and did began to do your bloody jobs properly.

It would appear that what Brown's adviser was indulging in against the Tories is and has something in common with the type of tactics used an any prospective BNP candidates. In fact it could be said that this applies to anyone who supports policies in common with the BNP are also attacked, and its not just the BNP, anyone who questions climate change is treated similarly, it even happens on this forum.

Those engaged in " character assassination " would appear to come from hardcore Corporate Nazi faith, with eco-fascism high in their esteem. Perhaps JadedJean would describe them as anarcho capitalist Trotskyites, but they have all got one thing in common and that is to lead us into a virtual civil war. The Green Party lost just two thirds of its vote in the recent semi derelict Manchester area ( Moston ) by election. They must be desperate to claim that they can provide the next MP for Brighton, but it would appear that they have very little support in the north.

They eco-fascists appear to be becoming desperate with plans to close down key power stations in order to provoke anarchy in the big towns. Good job the police stepped in when they did at Nottingham, a brilliant piece of police work compared the the G20. Human right's camp squealing, but its the eco-fascists who have got plans to dispose of half the UK population, how do they propose to do this short of some form of virtual holocaust. They did the training run during the 2001 foot and mouth animal disposal, no need for gas chambers, crematoriums, rendering is more profitable.

Unfortunately there are some really nasty people out there who are not averse to the prospect of a civil war if democracy fails them. Successive governments have seen this coming and perhaps one good reason that they have installed traffic calming in Asian areas in big towns is to help control any future civil unrest. Of course they have it in " rough " white dominated estates also, where the chattering classes consider a large proportion of the inhabitants are at or near the poverty line.

Humps in the road are an ideal protection against anyone stealing a service vehicle in an attempt to break out through the gates. Impossible to get any decent speed up if there are humps everywhere. Its only one easy step to ring fencing certain areas of towns and turning them into virtual Warsaw type ghettos. Nobody will be let in or out without a permit, plenty of work for private security guard companies now that much housing is under the control of housing associations. I believe that locked gates have already been installed on some " alley's ".

The eco-fascists are potentially far more dangerous than Muslim fundamentalists and their alleged bomb plots. But it doesn't stop there, only recently members of the BNP were attacked by a gang of " black youths ", one was hit on the head with a claw hammer. Fortunately it was only a relatively minor flesh wound, but the police just stood by and watched having spent ages threatening landlords with withdrawal of their license if they let the BNP hold a formal meeting there. No doubt the " youths " were paid for by someone perhaps in drug money, or even given drugs to participate. I can't see the eco-fascists doing the Nottingham job for free either, some came a long way when everyone is alleged skint.

There seem to be two recurring themes in the news lately. An unscrupulous and corrupt bunch of politicians running the country and an increasingly violent, unaccountable and seemingly out of control Police Force backing them up by supressing protest. Add to that the fact that we don't really have any opposition to all these excesses and you have quite a worrying situation.

In my view the worst of it is the lack of opposition. We hear things day after day which amount to an open goal for the Tories yet all we get is a silence which can only be construed as tacit agreement with the government. From expense fiddling and corruption to assaults on civil liberties, Police brutality, denial of the EU Referendum and now this email sleaze. It shows that things will not improve should the Tories get elected.

#7 brossen99

Oh joy you are BNP as I was never sure.

I do love love the phrase eco-FASCISTS as other BNP members, a lot more pretentious than you, such as Jaded_Jean - but I suspect they had a script, say they were against anti-FASCISTS.

That was upper case to emphasize that people do understand what you are about and they do understand that when you cry against your impinged liberties you do not in fact cry for democracy.

You are in fact crying for Hitler and planned economies and race "realism" and eugenics and your haze about the Holocaust is ... demanded by your superiors.

Do you actually have the courage to say what you are for rather than prevaricate?

How can people support what they do do not understand?

That aid who can support idiotic ideas that died with Hitler in his bunker in 1945.

His niece was not even there - and she had drunk so much fascism!

I thought the big piece tonight was McBride but in fact you did not go much beyond ITV (McBride=Brown; woe, woe, woe!) but in fact you could have gone large on the police/democratic rights issue.

Coal miners strike (intercepting strikers illegally on the motorway); G20 (don't beat up on everybody) and the Plane Stupid Issue (OK to show al Qaeda what you are planning but don't complain about air travel?).

I should say that I am very happy that any officers who were FASCISTS would be removed if they were BNP members.

The issue is that whilst 99.9% of the public reject the BNP - obviously - sometimes the governments of the day act as though they belong.

Brown=Griffin=Goebells?

All hideous people.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#9 mine

"That aid who can"

should be

"Who can "

#7 brossen99

Its bizarre how far right intellectuals machine gun themselves in the feet, knees and head on such a regular basis - are you jaded_Jeans boy ?!

"virtual Warsaw type ghettos"

Duh!

I think planks of wood are supposed to say "there was no Holocaust and if there was one it was the Stalinist forces".

Lets all hope you go out like the Brown shirts!

Duh, duh, duh, duh!

GO1 # 9

Funny how you associate me with totalitarian regimes when as a long term contributor to this blog you should know my position as far as Proportional Representation.

I'm a bit like barrie in that I don't actually support any party but that is not to say that I am anti democracy. It looks as though mainstream party alleged democracy has failed the people of our country. Government policy is no longer dictated by the people but by the fraudulent Bankers and their stock market parasites.

Voting for the BNP in the EU elections is the one thing the mainstream politicians fear the most because its a direct attack on their Corporate Nazi quasi-religion. Voting BNP is the nuclear option as far as protest voting is concerned, if you are eurosceptic anyway, forget UKIP, they have been shown proven to be just as institutionally corrupt as the other alleged " safe " politicians.

AND THAT IS RIGHT

When one's raison d'etre is to further deregulation in favour of 'the market', does it really matter who's in charge of regulators, so long as they don't regulate, but keep up appearances?

Morning/Moaning all eh?

When going off 2 War / Battle
Deception Plan = PLAN DECEPTION (dunit)

browned off with the brown ones silly tactics.
he nose nothink.
election in thee off perhaps CLOSE he panics

anything 2 cling the clingon
they arse all like that

The more the 'crimes' the police investigate are proscribed by Whitehall and the more frustrated, on a daily basis, the average police constable becomes, the more the gov't tries to soften the blow (no pun intended) with extra powers and the more the police act like they are out of control.

The apparent brutality wouldn’t cause such anger if the public thought they were simply lapses of judgment, but most of us know that to be far from the truth. The 'last-few-years' intake of police recruits appears noticeably less well educated and raised than those of previous generations, owing, overwhelmingly, to the calamitous state of the education system.

I wonder when the media and politicians will engage more than two brain cells to recognise most of the problems we suffer in this country are the product of those failed by our education system and the inability of millions of parents to raise children to any acceptable level. It's baffling so many find it difficult to comprehend the concept of 'cause and effect': that society’s catastrophic education system produces society's catastrophic problems. I mentioned once before, in a post about the idiot, Mary Whitehouse (/blogs/newsnight/2008/05/did_mary_whitehouse_have_a_point.html; post #148), how our politicians and media, for all their support for increased spending on education and the general area of childcare, are generally clueless regarding how instrumental they are to a harmonious society. A decent education and upbringing prevents far more problems than any government dept or quango could ever hope to (and it's been twelve years of hope and not much else), but the education system and ability to raise children are only ever two amongst many causes for examination. It's almost as if they think, when you walk through the school gates, on your way home, for the last time, you disappear into the ether. The thick people, who can't stop themselves from eating excessive amounts of junk food, stabbing people, becoming pregnant at sixteen or lashing out at protestors (no matter how loony they are), etc., are the product of a different education system, so their problems are more complex and require wholly new solutions and sacrifices. Maybe the police should undergo compulsory 'anti-protestor' (or should that be 'anti-'anti-protestor'') training.

P.S. Am I the only person who thinks Ian Tomlinson (the dead 'G20' protestor) appeared to be attempting to antagonise the police with his hands in his pockets and the dragging of his feet and how absurd it is to blame the police for his heart attack? Did the police have knowledge of Mr. Tomlinson's susceptibility to a heart attack or do they have the magic-like power to control a person's artery fat deposits? Is Mr. Tomlinson going to be deified like Jean-Charles de Menezes?

SHOW US THEIR CREDENTIALS

Whilst it was good to have the stills of 'goat's eyes' Ed Miliband as Gavin cut from the video feed (and that one of Draper trying to feign denail in response to Staines was good too), may I suggest that in future, Newsnight accompanies New Labour politicans/spin-doctors/'Third-Sector' think-tank guests like , once of the (who peer reviews them by the way? Does anyone ever ask why they call themselves 'research' groups?) with rolling CV's of part affiliations?

This is a good part of what's fundamentally wrong with our . What's happened in recent decades is that different groups of anarchists (Conservative and New Labour) have had make-overs and now populate 'think-tanks' offering self-published, self-accredited, 'respected' views masquerading as research. In fact, these are all just hived off policy/public opinion shaping units and both sides paly the same game and esssentially promote the same free-market, libertarian, neo-liberal policies!

The recently redrafted/expanded made this worse (or better for them). See 2(2).

The general public is being misled and given false choices. So, how about it Newsnight? In future, provide a scrolling CV of guests which show their past affiliations please, else you might be seen as colluding in this game of deception.

We need a return to the days when experts were reputable and knew what they were talking about. Sadly, our universities have been overpopulated with nitwits in the last 30 years.

Newsnight captioned Matthew Taylor last night as CEO of The Royal Society (sic) -
confusing that with CEO of the RSA (Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce). There
have, of course, been other bloggers
in The Royal Society ........ Mr Samuel
Pepys was President from 1684-1686
....... but mainly they are scientists??!



Still: nobody is perfect ...... last month
(26/3/09) Channel 4 News captioned
Derek Draper as an 'MP' rather than a
spindoctor and psychothingummyblog.

Speaks for itself really. Behaviour Analysis/Management experts (but they're 'nazis' aren't they?).

This is anarchistic driven dysgenesis with an effort to turn poachers into turned gamekeepers - Bull-Terriers into Labradors. Sigh, it'll never work. It's in the genes.

THERE'S NO HOLE IN MY CYBER-PIPE DEAR LIZA (Only just found this thread, yet I was up till well-gone 2.00am refreshing repeatedly.)

Britain is writing its history as a dismal Rushdie novel. Nothing gleams with intrinsic worth. Honours are bestowed constructively, educational degrees tend towards absolute zeros, and heroes are relative.

Our malaise is crystallised in the Blair phenomenon. Tony Blair's is Dorian Grey - we are 'the picture'.

Few now think for themselves (cue JJ) and even fewer think cogently and rationally.

Havel's greengrocer KNEW he lived a lie; escape was possible. Britons have no inkling that they are inside a lie, and 'sanity' is always vested in the majority. I think, therefore I am deranged.

BOGEY LANGUAGE

Surely we have not forgotten the Machiavellian grin on the face of little Jimmie Brown (1) when his glove puppet had just announced the 10p stunt and (2) when Hannan was delivering that withering broadside?

We have got ourselves 'another one'. The last one wished for a war; beware of what Brown wishes for, WE might just get it.

My Personal Views -

SmearGate

I have some questions

1) Who funds Mr Drapper activities ?
2) When did Mr Brown last meet Mr Drapper and why ?
3) Mr Brown says he did not know anything about the emails , but did he know about the overall strategy or policy?

I hope News Night is investigating this story further.

Basra

Good to hear from Basra , since the Gov changed the rules on allowing service personal publishing their own video footage , it's been hard to know what's happening there.

The conduct of the war was limited by the 1998/99 SDR , that limited the resources for such a activity.

Good to hear our troops are coming home and the Iraqi Army is strong enough to look after it's citizens security now.

Who are the anarchists?

Rockers, Mods, Skinheads,Punks, then nothing significant until now with the baton-wielding Blue Bottles...

Sticks and stones
can break my bones,
but call be names that are too rude,
and I'll turn your thigh into dog food luncheon with my little truncheon...

is this the Labour party of Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn? All the nasty emails, all the deceptions and whisperings backstage and character assasinations, no, this is the work of people who are careerist politicians who do not have a Labour fibre in their soul, they do the bidding of Brown, or Blair or Mandelson because these people have no allegence, no gravitas, they are the tools of NuLabour who deserve them all. Skinner and Benn would have no truck with these charletans as sincerity does not inhabit their narrow mindset. Wapping deserves them all but they won't sell too many copies...

Markonee1 (#24) "Who are the anarchists?

Rockers, Mods, Skinheads,Punks, then nothing significant until now with the baton-wielding Blue Bottles..."

No, what if that just a distraction? What if the real anarchists are those who construct, debate, and enact deregulative legislation in Parliament which has been privatising/PFIing the state, Balkanizing Britain into Regional Development Agencies as NUTS for a Greater Free-Market Europe, making most folk conceive any hint of nationalism/statism/protectionism a 'Nazi' evil?