成人论坛

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the monster who locked up that girl says he is a devout born again christian....they all say that

Emily:

AFGHANISTAN COMMAND

Will NewsNight going to be offering a clip of the show for
the public usage before 2230....

=Dennis Junior=

"Is the broadcaster an anomaly in this day and age? Does its presence dull the potential of the open market place?"

Ah, yes, I wondered how long it would be before the anarchists asked that one. The 成人论坛 is a symbol of the British state, one of the last remaining national services. Everything else has been fragmented, balkanized, run down or sold off. If anyone still doesn't understand what anarchism (or Trotskyism) is, please take note. It isn't what you think it is.

"FASCINATING SUBJECT" - WELL THAT DEPENDS . . .

The news from Canada is 'fascinating' in the same way that Big Brother isn't.

The responsible thing for Newsnight to do would be to look for informed opinion (not Alistair Campbell or minder, PLEASE) on just what takes the human sex drive off into a multitude of bizarre alleys of expression. If I watch at all, it will be to register dramatic camera, musical enhancement, repetition of 'key bits' and general titillation of ninnies. Can I help it if I am a masochist?

uk forces are fighting in afghanistan and [iraq] for a level of democracy we don't have in the uk. They can elect their head of state. We can't. Treason laws even forbid discussing that anyone else be head of state. So its a gagging law. The national oath is a personal one to protect the rights and privileges of the monarch [not to protect the rights of all the people] and even the 'national' anthem is a monarchy sing song.

so if the govt want to 'spread' democracy how about in the uk with a proper constitution and new oath?

WHO'S IN CHARGE IN ANARCHISM UK INC?

bookhimdano (#6) It's great not being a nation state anymore but a bunch of Regional Assemblies in the EU populated by cosmopolitans and others speaking hundreds of different languages. This way, nobody can object when it's decided to use taxpayer's resources to go and bully some other hapless group abroad into doing what cosmopolitans fancy, and if anyone does object, they can be called nationalists or racists. If they get stroppy in more than twos or threes, no problem, it's easy enough to get some psychoapthic group to blow a few of them up as an example to make the rest aware of just how at risk they all are to the evils of international 'terrorism'.

Relucant to post tonight, words seem to be inadequate given tonights harrowing lead story,

in the face of appalling evil it shows how the human spirit can survive, the story puts a lot of the other things we waste time into perspective,
makes me think of the book, Man's Search for Meaning' by the concentration camp survivor, Viktor Frankl,

the story also illustrates another mark of evil, which is deception,

Perhaps the 成人论坛 should re-consider broadcasting the vile and disgusting phone call by Garrido which may well cause distress to many

BGT (#8) "makes me think of the book, Man's Search for Meaning' by the concentration camp survivor, Viktor Frankl,"

Not everyone takes this as gospel. Look into it.

Psychotheraphy generally doesn't work, but it makes some people a lot of money.

erratum (#10) "Psychotherapy generally doesn't work" - (psychotherapists aren't even regulated, anyone can set themselves up at present...).

I have just watched part of James Murdoch's key note speech and I was appalled. This man has so much control and strangle-hold on our media already.I am more scared of a rich man having so much control then 成人论坛. He is already making a lot of money out of us and has no business complaining.

We are paying the License fee which entitles us to news on radio, TV and internet.

I say, more power to the 成人论坛!

In #8 bubblegumTriffid used the E word (Evil) twice ! - What is he ? - some kind of M (Moralist) person ? Does he seek to 'impose his morality' on Phillip Garrido ? - For my part I do but then I'm a self confessed moralist (bubblegumTriffid might be as well - this post is not a complaint about your post per se, it's a complaint about morality only being allowed to be used when bad things happen to 'nice, people like us' people - which is no morality at all as far as I can see) - but what if for you, 'imposing your morality' is not an act of a civilised person but an accusation - something that gets in your way ? What complaint, if you are not a moralist, do you actually have against Phillip Garrido ?

On the Murdoch assault I think there is a genuine issue on local reporting though one of your commentators said that meant the 成人论坛 should step in to an emerging gap whilst I thought many in local newspapers wanted the Beeb to step back.

The political aspects were OK - provided "sofa politics" are not continued under the Tories.

It matters not a jot if they use political leverage as with the Tory Euro MEP poodle with a psychosis revolving around the "Stalinist" NHS and his sympathy to Enoch Powell. I doubt that he would fall into the Jaded_Jean national Socialist camp but he is pretty rabid.

Profit and big business leads to the pantomime circus and near McCarthyite hysteria over health care. I am not sure if competition rules would preclude you from using a "Daily Show" clip where they show Fox making some puppet a voice of the people and then the puppet rants at a meeting hysterically and then they are THE voice of the people. Nothing to do with a profit agenda, big health insurance companies and the Fox political agenda.

The other day I seem to recall a Fox reporter interviewing Rupert and Rupert just saying he "was not going to talk about that" issue and the reporter saying "Yes boss!". Very professional, objective and unprejudiced.

Jon Stewart would also make an excellent contributor if you could get him to talk about Fox polls (always 89% or better etc) - but then your National Socialist groupies who hang around on this page would protest that as a Jew he is part of the "Jewish Communist International".

I know how sensitive to their views you must be.

Apparently there is only a Jewish Communist International if you listen to these headcases - and most Newsnight viewers are far to intelligent to fall for their garbage.

If newspapers are going to struggle and therefore the chances of manipulation increases then the threats to democracy increase and so I think most people will encourage the Sky/Fox news to clear off. In a genuine poll.

#10 Jaded_Jean

"Not everyone takes this as gospel. Look into it. "

Not everyone thinks Hitler was a peace lover and are "agnostic" on the Holocaust despite offering statistics that no Nazi war criminal has ever used in their own defence and were I believe refuted at the Irving trial in Austria. Hence you claim to be "agnostic" and not a denier as you know the line cannot hold and so its a smokescreen to cover the retreat. The Holocaust was "made up to put people off statists" and those that died did so from disease or the Russians shot them. But then the Russians are "statists" in your world and despite the Spanish Civil war where Stalins forces fought the fascists and the invasion of Russia leaving twenty five million or so dead you try to angle for the disillusioned socialist left voter.

Not everyone promotes National Socialist propaganda in the form of your race "realism" - though the science shows it is rubbish as genetic variation is greater within a race than between races. There is no serious academic or scientific establishment that would be seen dead associating themselves with your views.

#4 Jaded_Jean

"Ah, yes, I wondered how long it would be before the anarchists asked that one"

The world has been waiting with baited breath for your thoughts on the matter, I am sure, as they must see you as the outstanding mind that you believe yourself to be. Not.

The craziest thing about the goose steppers is they will cheerfully label everybody who is not a Stalinist or a Nazi as an anarchist.

They will gleefully talk about shooting anarchists in WWII and the Spanish Civil War.

Then they want the "anarchists" (I prefer Lib Dem voter in my case) to be entranced by their ideology and vote BNP.

Touching sensitivity. Given I love democracy its a NO from me now and until hell freezes over..

#5 barriesingleton

"The responsible thing for Newsnight to do would be to look for informed opinion (not Alistair Campbell or minder, PLEASE) on just what takes the human sex drive off into a multitude of bizarre alleys of expression."

I suppose they could refer to the analysis of Hitlers childhood and relationship with Geli Raubal if you want to talk bizarre. Then there is the Hitler loving Baby P batterer and child rapist and you could throw in that would be far right nail bomber who was also a paedophile. There is the Twickenham Green murderer who also is the chief suspect in the Millie Dowler case.

I am still intrigued as to whether Lewington, the "Waffen SS manual" would be bomber has an inclination to children.

Emily,
It鈥檚 400 years since Galileo demonstrated his telescope, but Thomas Harriot beat the great man to using a telescope to observe the heavens.

from mimpromptu
I've just sent off a complaint to the 成人论坛 which reads as follows:
I believe this post is racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable for the following reason:
Well, it's frightening to even read this and perhaps shows what some anarchists have already been up to. I don't mind it being shown as it might in fact point the authorities in the right direction. I think the possible links to terrorism expressed in this text should be investigated without much delay.

and on a brighter note from mimpromptu again:
Isn't Emily Maitlis a clever lady, apart from being good looking which goes without saying, obviously? Apparently she speaks 4 European languages and a bit of Mandarin as well.

#19 from mimpromptu
I was referring to jj's post at #7

from mimpromptu re: #7 & #20
Bloggers
I have received a very quick response to my complaint, with which I am satisfied and part of which reads as follows:
Dear 成人论坛 Reader,
Further to your complaint about some of the content on a 成人论坛 blog we have decided that it does not contravene the House Rules and are going to leave it on site.
Please note that this response refers to a complaint about one specific piece of content. If you have alerted us about a member's nickname or other ongoing issues relating to the blog then we may still be taking action.
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If you disagree with another poster's viewpoint, please add your own views to the blog.
Hope you have a good bank holiday weekend

ANTI-ELITISM IS INSIDIOUS PRO-ANARCHISM

Watch the daily drone of the news. It relentlessly campaigns in favour of the individual at the expense of 'authorities', 'experts', 'the state' etc. This is anarchism as 'grass-roots workers democracy (Trotskyism) at work. Its protagonists are usually unwitting 'useful idiots' (as Lenin called them). Is it really any wonder that schools are losing control, crime is a major problem, respect is on its death-bed, and people who haven't a clue what they're talking about demand to have their absurd opinions treated as equal to those who know better?

A 13 year old girl wants to sail around the world whilst her peers have to go to school. Why shouldn't she be allowed to some ask? Who are these 'experts' saying no, they ask....

?

Part II, if I get round to it, will be more on narcissistic entitlement and hissy fits (narcissistic rage).

#23 JJ A 13 year old girl wants to sail around the world whilst her peers have to go to school. Why shouldn't she be allowed to some ask? Who are these 'experts' saying no, they ask....

Strange thing to do I feel, why does the girl and her parents want this fame, or perhaps fortune. How will her parents feel if the girl dies or goes mad, I couldn't live with the guilt.

SHORTAGE OF UNIVERSITY PLACES ND LOST GENERATION

If there's a shortage of university places now that 50% (IQ=100 and up) of the population is going to university instead of the 5% (IQ= above 120) which used to, maybe that's because they just aren't bright enough?

13 YEAR OLDS WANT TO SPEND TWO YEARS STAYING IN THEIR BEDROOMS

Their parents say they'll be quite safe, and will be better off than in our maintained schools. EU is looking into this from an EU Human Rights perspective as there are concerns about their health and safety without a responsible parent being in the house. The focus will be on whether, after yars of effort, there are in fact any responsible parents anymore, and whether 'being responsible' is in fact a punishable, discriminatory, patronizing, behaviour which is in violation of childrens' Human Rights.

(For the non cognoscenti, this is a joke).

You are in a very witty mood this morning JJ! ; )

Barrie ~Spoil Party Games

I think you might be about to get your wish Barrie! Look what Murdoch is proposing that we pay for all our internet news viewing. In the british case pay twice if we keep the licence fee. If the general public have to pay to view online news etc. Will we stop reading all this news, and make up our own minds freely and independently of propaganda from all political parties? So in effect Spoil Party Games!

Mordoch speech.The underlying philosophy of "independent" broadcasting is to please the investors (advertisers)and to obtain the maximum return for the least investment. This observation completely negates the affront that the 成人论坛 presents to the free enterprise broadcasters that they are a mirror to the times. It is my understanding that the function of the Murdoch group was the manufacture of consent via the constant trumpeting of free market interests representing the spurious notion of choice. Understandably this makes the 成人论坛 a thorn in the side of this proposition as it represents in my view true value for money , a wider choice and a trusted voice for delivering informed relatively unbiased reporting. Can this be said of Fox news? I could go on further as to the content of other Murdoch outlets but I have made my point .In my view the 成人论坛 and others like it are needed now more than ever.

Did Emily Maitlis say Galileo was the "first man to see the stars"? This isn't Fox News, you know.

clifran (#30) Good post, but what are the odds that one of the usual suspects will come out with the suggestion that you've just come off the early shift down the local gas-chamber? After all, what else could possibly explain , and with views like yours, it stands to reason that that's the sort of thing you're likely to have been doing, if not gleefully pulling wings off flies etc. After all, what's wrong with x00+ TV channels anyway, just look at the improvement in quality, and we're so much better informed too.

the bbc online problem can be solved by putting all their content behind a login screen that is linked to the unique licence fee number.

that will free up the space to have different business models for news.

the real criticism of the bbc is the near extinction of investigative news and the removal of the great debate board.

#31 from mimpromptu
although I see the irony in the question,
I think EMILY SAID THAT GALILEO GALILEI
/a great supporter of Copernicus,
and who is considered as the "father of modern physics,
" the "father of science,"
"the Father of Modern Science,"
and of whom Stephen Hawking says, "Galileo, perhaps more than any other single person, was responsible for the birth of modern science."
WAS THE FIRST MAN TO SEE THE STARS THROUGH A TELESCOPE

mimpromptu (#34) about Galileo and science.

No, I just listened again. "First man to see the stars" Full stop, big smile. (So what about when Wilma hit Fred Flintstone?) Galileo's telescope wouldn't have shown him anything special about the stars; but he did see moons go round Jupiter, which was very naughty at the time

#36 Not a customer

Yes she did. I heard it last night, but hadn't got round to checking. The media especially 成人论坛 presenters often do such things. Especially with sweeping statements on climate change and related ecological issues.

THAT'LL DO NICELY

The 成人论坛 has been a little sloppy in recent years with its commissions of pieces on cotton-picking child slave labourers, and clandestine logging camps in the Far East of Russia staffed by N Korean 'workers', but it's the last hope we have of a really free press, as the alternative seems determined to sail us further down the river of anarchism and ultimately, extinction.

Anyone who carefully reads the link which I provided for mimpropmtu might come to see that there are vested market interests in encouraging folk to believe the unbelievable, as this is required in order to boost share prices and market share.

Take the case of sub-prime loans (there are many others). Many years ago, predatory lenders would have had to go abroad to find people they could easily take advantage of given domestic regulations which protected the vulnerable in our population. However, in more recent decades, these people have been encouraged to migrate here (it's more convenient), as this way, they can be given all manner of credit whilst being encouraged to go on self-improvement courses for both themselves and their progeny, and spend their money in our supermarkets etc too. It's been easy enough to lower standards over the years in order to keep up the illusion of self-improvement, all that was required was staffing the required bodies (now 'agencies') with people who don't know what they are doing, or who were too scared for their own livelihoods to speak out. That way, the lenders and the education service providers (often hand in glove with publishers these days), did very nicely thank you. The illusion that has to be sustained is that all groups and all people are equal at birth.

I'm not being cynical.

Sadly, this assumption is completely refuted by all the evidnece as even a moment's careful thought about the mentally disabled should reveal.

So, why is it so widely accepted and why is so much of even the NN discussion between talking heads seemingly oblivious to the scientific facts of the matter?

I wouldn't call the Murdoch press impartial either but then the point is I wouldn't want them having such an unaccountable stranglehold of the media either. There is no question that on subjects which the government is promoting, such as the "catastrophic global warming" they say is happening the 成人论坛 has made not even an attempt to be anything but propagandists.

BROWN GIVES MASTERCLASS ON CORRUPTION (#29)

Jimmie Brown has been lecturing Afghanistan's leaders on corruption. Well - he is an expert.

Political parties are temples of corruption. They distil from their fetid ranks the Thatchers, Blairs, Browns et al, under whom we must suffer. That Brown has the gall to lecture anyone, in morality, is beyond surreal, yet 'The Lie' within which world chicanery (aka diplomacy) functions, accepts and absorbs such preposterous roguery as 'normal'.

Ideally we need God to sweep away this entire world-order (perhaps with monster Israeli bulldozers) but as He is notably slow to wrath these days, we must make a start and SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

Are we all Going To Hell in a Handcart?

They don't seem to have those guys on street corners anymore - you know, the one's with the sandwich boards reading 'The End of the World is Nigh'
or 'The Wages of Sin is Death', but some of you bloggers make pretty fine substitutes!! Try to lighten up a bit.

Barrie refers to a Masterclass on Corruption.
I recommend occasionally watching Sky Arts2 TV Masterclasses in Music, run by musicians like Daniel Barenboim who has put together a very harmonic orchestra consisting of young Jews and Arabs; or the pianist Lang Lang, who by his extraordinary talent and positive energy is credited with getting 100 million children in China to take up a musical instrument, some 35 million of them pianists.

What a role model: better than our worship of sports celebs.

Music transcends the confines of nations and epochs and if we could find a Prime Minister who was primarily a musician (like Paderewski of Poland) he might get MPs of all parties working together more harmonically and in tune with the best interest of our nation.

Meanwhile, I take some comfort from reading Dante's Inferno which indicates that most of us bloggers being 'The Futile' will only be sent to the Upper Vestibule of Hell, whereas the 'Counsellors of Fraud, Falsifiers and Sowers of Discord' will be in Nether Hell 鈥� deep in the s..t, right up to their lips, where they will have to quietly mutter 鈥淒on鈥檛 Make Waves鈥�, "Don't Make Waves".

#41 , indignantindegene I must agree with you that Daniel Barenboims Divan orchestra is superb, did you see them at the Proms on TV?

Have you heard the chinese musician Ting Ting, she is very talented as well, but I don't think she teaches.

We did have a Prime Minister who encouranged musicians, Ted Heath. He brought in free tuition in schools for children who wanted to play an instrument, and even help for poor kids to go to music school tutors. My brother benefited from that, and is now a world class musician. So it shows that a PM with an interest in the arts certainly would help the nation.

#41 Indygene

What if a UK local authority knew about the UK 2007 floods, 15 years before they happened?

Has anyone perhaps noticed that James Murdoch's designer spectacles and hairstyle make him reminiscent of Himler ? The Corporate Nazi's must be getting pretty desperate to maintain their corporate illusion for such a speech to be delivered to an audience broadly in favor of the 成人论坛. Its virtual BNP rhetoric, aimed at an audience of the lowest form of intellect.

Sky consumers often moan about paying the license, but then the idiots are paying more a month for just Sky than a simple licenses fee freeview. Taking in the internet the 成人论坛 offers excellent value for money and is now interacting with the viewer more than ever in the past. Just a pity they closed down Action Network, but it did have a range of opinions on numerous subjects not always towing the government line.

This NN blog is worth the license fee on its own, Murdock publications like The Times do have feedback but they would never publish a phrase like Corporate Nazi when referring to the stock market parasites. I suspect that Lord Turner would have been hushed up, especially the bit about large sections of the finance industry being " socially useless " JadedJean #4 is spot on with her reference to anarchists, but perhaps the cat is already out of the bag on the anarcho capitalist Trotskyites, especially in the more intelligent section of society.

indignantindegene (#41) "Are we all Going To Hell in a Handcart?"

You bet! Looks that way for the liberal-democracies anyway. I'm not sure listening to Daniel Barenboim or Lang Lang on our iPods is going to help to be honest. In fact, I reckon (avoidance) it's one of the reasons why we're all Going To Hell in a Handcart...(80% Service Sector and all).

See Robert Peston's and Stephanie Flanders' blogs for some more examples of indignant/outraged protestors ;-(

#44 Brossen

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so fat away. I believe in Yesterday.

/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/08/thursday_27_august_2009.html

#42ecolizzy. Yes, I have seen the Divan orchestra several times, and saw Barenboim presented with a medal of honour by the Israeli's, when in his acceptance speech he shocked them by roundly criticising their foreign policy! In my innocent youth, I used to campaign for Edward Heath as my MP, but dropped him when he sacked Enoch Powell. He was a good organist, but certainly struck a discord there.

#45 JJ It may be avoidance, but how to achieve engagement? Blogging is just a release mechanism to me; there is little evidence that our 'listening' government is going to be persuaded by public opinion, whether their sins are of ommission or commission. What, for instance, has the No10 website achieved, other than millions of signatures, or the anti-war march? One can only lay back and think of England (as it was).

Your link about banning red ink is just another example of pc gone mad and will probably be followed by renaming black ink on ethnic grounds.

Although I accept the 'Perfect Storm' scenario,I don't entirely share your concerns about IQ scores. My partner is village-level, but has a heart of gold and our daughter is into music and arts as well as maths and science. Like my son and grandchildren, we will probably emigrate next year to join a less 'advanced' society - unless we get more English Democrats elected, like the Doncaster Mayor, who has virtually banned pc, plans to cut his council seats by 66%, drop 'non-posts' like community cohesion officers and scrapped funding for translation services and events like Gay Pride. Spoil Major Party Games.

James Murdoch - was he the comedy slot for tonight鈥檚 programme?

Which planet did he land from?

The 成人论坛 did a land grab? What does he think his company did to Sport and News, worldwide.

He said we should trust the public to decide what gets made and shown? That is rubbish. Not even his own channels subscribe to that mode of programme delivery.

No one in the cricket world, amongst fans, wanted to see their sport disappear off all mainstream channels.

If he thinks the 成人论坛 is too big to compete with then he should try harder. I run a small production company. I have to compete with the 成人论坛. It is good to compete with them, a challenge. They still uphold the broadcasting standard in the technical world.

I recently pitched an idea to a Hollywood producer. They wanted to know what I had done. I said I had worked for the 成人论坛 for twenty years before going freelance. They were impressed. Don鈥檛 think they would have taken me seriously if I had said 鈥淪ky鈥�.

Perhaps he and Sky should try to make or produce something which a wider public would like to watch? Yes, their Sports coverage is excellent but their news? Give me a break. It looks like it is put together by first year students on a production course.

Charge for online? Just try it Murdoch and see how much money you make. Have you heard the expression 鈥榬ats leaving a sinking ship鈥�. Who in their right mind would pay for The Times? I suggest you revamp the paper before you try that?

No newspaper will be able to charge for online content. Not in the general news area.
People will pay for premium content if it helps their business or careers.

As for Channel Five person saying people should pay 拢7 each for 成人论坛 online. Fine, that is cheap. Doe he think The Times is only going to charge 拢7 a year?

The 成人论坛 does many things which annoy the viewers but all in all it is not something we should blow out of the water simply to give Sky an easy ride. If you cannot compete with the vast reserves of money you have Mr Murdoch then maybe you are in the wrong business?

So, 鈥淕ood Night and Good Luck鈥�.

Ron Taylor.

#36 & #37
Methinks my interpretation is the correct one, where the semantics of the whole statement needs to be understood by implication.
Galileo took the telescope, looked through it and saw the stars, and thus having been the first man who saw the twinklers at a closer range than anyone else before (via a telescope, that is).
What a ridiculous argument anyway as by #36 & #37.

SOLZHENISTSYN (#48) "I said I had worked for the 成人论坛 for twenty years before going freelance. They were impressed."

The problem is that people were, since the early 80s, made offers they couldn't refuse right across the Public Sector. That's one of the main reasons it's been deteriorating. Those who didn't make that pact, and who remained out of loyalty/principle and other such 'daft' sentiments, were then driven out, or driven mad...That's why people like Murdoch can point to inefficiencies etc in the Public Sector today. I can't see the 成人论坛 holding out for much longer, unless there's a radical change in what little remains of the UK, and sadly, I don't see what's likely to bring that about, do you?

#49 Mim

At least we now have a name for inaccurate reporting on the 成人论坛's flagship news analysis programme.

Poetic Licence.

DUMBING DOWN = DYSGENESIS

KCL (#51) "At least we now have a name for inaccurate reporting on the 成人论坛's flagship news analysis programme."

I guess that holds for modern accounting and financial services etc, but is it also creeping through the back door into engineering, medicine and teaching etc via all the client's/people's 'choice' nonsense?

The key word is ant-authority, and alitist, aka anti-intelligence.

Errata (#52, I didn't use the spell-checker) "The key words are anti-authority, anti-elitist, aka anti-intelligence."

The 成人论坛 four...the Murdoch mafia nil..

leftieoddbod (#54) The problem is that the prssure exerted upon individuals (and especially those with families), to sell out, is enormous. It really should not be under-estimated, choice has little to do with it except for martyrs, and even they may not have the choice they think they do. This is one of those 'tipping' point or 'catastrophic' issues. When given the choice between long-term consequences for all, and immediate obligations, the choice for most will always be the latter. It's just a variant of the sub-prime problem...with more able victims :-(

On a general issue amongst bloggers: I admit to some ambivalence on the choice of statism, as opposed to either private enterprise or anarchy.

We have plenty of examples of corruption and manipulation of the public by elected government and private eterprise/market forces. All wield power for their own aims and agendas, rather than for the greater good.

I cite again (re-Wednesday's blog)the case of Magrahi's release, now with further evidence that the straw man gave consideration to commerce rather than compassion, with the prospect of oil 'deals'. He and others in power will almost certainly have been influenced by big businesses. We are becoming like the US with so much lobbying of government and parliament, that there often isn't much choice between statism and the market. In this particular case Utilitarianism (for the greater good) may have prevailed.

Looking at other cases - eg the state(taxpayers)taking over when private 'enterprise' gets into debt, argues against statism, whereas the 'interference' in the market by Scottish parliament in banning 'happy hours' and about to impose further controls on alcohol prices, etc., argues in favour of some Nanny State involvement where a substantial percentage of the public indulge in anti-social behaviour, wich also has cost implications for health service, police etc.

I once thought that the solution might be the return of public services to central government, with more public referrenda on major issues,but now reject this solution on the grounds that we are clearly not all equal when it comes to making decisions - particularly since the importation of alien cultures.

Perhaps the best solution would be to increase the responsibilities of local authorities,over which we have more control and can protest and get up petitions at local meetings.

The only immediate solution is a form of anarchy or peaceful protest and I regularly ignore rules and regulations that do not make sense -
eg I don't see why I should keep out of empty bus lanes to improve the profitability of private operators, and go over red lights when there is no conflict of vehicles or pedestrians. These are truly utiliarian decisions as they reduce my exhaust gasses, and stressful behaviour!

re: #55
This is another obvious blackmail/threat coming from jj, the 'maestro' incarnate

indignantindegene (#56) "We have plenty of examples of corruption and manipulation of the public by elected government and private eterprise/market forces. All wield power for their own aims and agendas, rather than for the greater good."

True. All systems have this problem. The choice, surely, is how much one and control? Anarchism legitimizes it, as we've seen recently - it makes it 'go away' by making it legal! What we see in the larger (and some today) is how enemies of the people are severely treated. Some, understandably don't like that. Offenders rant against their persecuters..;-)

#58JJ Thank you for the links from which I deduce that given a free press and robust freedom of information legislation, politicians, particularly at President level, are more likely to be reigned in for their excesses than big business magnates, but unbridled can commit larger crimes.

In UK it remains debatable whether the larger crimes are those committed (i) by governments, such as engaging the country in an opposed and unwinnable war in which thousands have died (more recently to justify 150 votes cast by 80,000 electorate in one a district of Helmand), or (ii)the private enterprise type of crime such the tobacco indutry's pretence that smoking was not killing millions, or McDonald transfat.

Again, it seems to me that local authorities should be given wider reponsibilities and we might get more people, like the Doncaster Mayor, coming forward to really change communities, unfettered by central goverment controls. Local income taxes would give them more power, plus more scope for local residents to protest (such as Council Tax payment refusals). Passive resistance by the public is also easier to organise at local level. Despite all our blogging agin everything, we don't seem able to change even Newsnight's agendas.

WHAT THE SWINGOMETER REALLY REGISTERS(#56)

"we are clearly not all equal when it comes to making decisions"
Have you been looking at the answers IDG2?

Government is not slow to test us, and then license us (even to be 'citizens') but government accepts - with much shining eye and ballyhoo - almost all* are, by the age of 18 (16 soon) EQUAL in the business of discriminating the feckless from the gormless and the crafty from the dafty, i.e. in election of MPs. YET WE ALL KNOW THAT IS NOT SO. THE ELECTED MPs OF WESTMINSTER - JOINTLY AND SEVERALLY - PROVE IT NOT SO.
(*All Britons may vote except convicted criminals - the criminally insane and members of the House of Lords - spot the connection.)

The need for a voter test, so that only competent individuals have a right to vote, is irrefutable.

What human foible gives rise to the 'absolute truth' that universal suffrage is a god-given good? It only takes a moment's thought to realise it is a manipulators charter, giving rise to much of the obscene expense when parties fight for the votes of the useful, enfranchised idiots.

Ref. #58 - by the same token, a test for NN bloggers would not go amiss!

PS Listen to every word from the Straw Man about Magrahigate - he is up to his old lawyer tricks. His son should turn him in.

barrie (#60) "The need for a voter test, so that only competent individuals have a right to vote, is irrefutable."

It'd be good, open, and transparent, if Newsnight further covered village and higher level elections in the PRC. After all that we heard (throughout the Cold War) about how cruel and oppressive the democratic-centralist Stalinist system was, what Newsnight has covered over recent times in its coverage of the PRC didn't make it look all that bad in my view. How did the PRC manage keep all the purges/shootings quiet which allegedly blighted the Soviet Union implementation, especially given that the Chinese thought the USSR system was revisionist after 1953?

Given the treatment meted out to Iraq, and now the Taliban, surely it makes some wonder, just a bit, what the Germans really got up to in the 1930s and early 1940s? How about N Korea, Vietnam today, and Burma.....

Disraeli...eh? ;-)

indignantindegene (#59) "Despite all our blogging agin everything, we don't seem able to change even Newsnight's agendas."

That appears to be so too. :-(

Still...I've said this before, but here it is again.. and it's as much a question as hypothesis.

'FIT AND PROPER PERSON' (further to #60)

I gather, from today's radio, government is proceeding 'exceeding slow' in the matter of controlling rogue mobile-home-park owners. There is a move afoot to require them to be 'fit and proper persons'. Now THERE'S a thought. Will they take a test?
How many lives can one rogue owner ruin in - say - five years?

Now - let us consider how many lives one rogue MP can ruin in five years?
Further, let's look at how these MPs get into power; worse - how they STAY in power. Is it not by the manipulation of a mass of gullible, powerless, yet enfranchised electors? Perhaps it is fellow-feeling with park-owners that makes our MPs so tardy in attending to the misery of park dwellers? How long they will take to clean up 'park GB' is anybody's guess.

I suggest that only 'fit and proper persons' should be allowed to vote for Westminster MPs. We might then get a few FIT AND PROPER MPs!

Addendum (#62) An outgoing ? Recognise any themes?

NN it would have been helpful if there was a link to Mr Murdochs on your site, I had to search for it.

Even though I don't agree with everything Mr Murdoch said , I think he raises some good questions about choice, regulation, diversity (independence) and generally what type of media we want to be served by in the 21st century.

THAT OLD DOSSIER FEELING (Locherbie)

As I listened to the unimpeachable Straw Man, guaranteeing propriety in all things, the pennies began to drop.

The rambling MacAskill peroration, was surely a DOSSIER in the tradition of 'Great Communicator Blair'. It was detailed, authoritative and spurious.

How much longer must we wait for some public spirited Wolf, bad or otherwise, to blow upon the House of Straw, and bring it down?

barrie (#66) The thing is, as he was not sent home under the Prisoner Transfer Agreement but on grounds of compassion, and as that decision was made independently by the devolved Scottish Justice ministry, nobody can legitimately assert that what was publicly stated, was not in fact, the case. The rest is, well, speculation, circumstantial, coincidence, 'politics' etc etc. It's all in the lingo ;-)

That's politics folks.

PS. See Peston and Flanders blogs.

Addendum (#67) Ask yourself: how would anyway successfully attribute another 'cause' for the release other than that already given? The news is littered with such pecliar talk these days, but what is the point? We have people arguing that x was really y, with Ministers protesting it wasn't so. Why?

Really, what is the point? This is but one example amongst many.

#65 Steve-London

The Land of Lost Content, that cannot come again?

Thanks for the link, and I agree with you that Murdoch (Jnr)raises some interesting points.

It is only fair to give the response of the Chairman of the 成人论坛 Trust, Sir Michael Lyons, who said:
鈥淏ritish broadcasting is admired around the world. Its diversity of broadcasters and their variety of funding is a strength and not a weakness. But there are current problems that need to be addressed.
Our starting point is what is in the interests of the public and the 成人论坛 agrees with James Murdoch's analysis that we need to trust them. And the public tell us that they, in turn, trust the 成人论坛 and value the wide range of services we provide. The 成人论坛 has no choice but to serve all audiences, but that doesn't mean that it can or should seek to squeeze out other providers. We have to be careful not to reduce the whole of broadcasting to some simple economic transactions. The 成人论坛's public purposes stress the importance of the well-tested principles of
educating and informing, and an impartial contribution to debate in the UK. As to the 成人论坛 Trust, let me underline that it is here to strengthen the 成人论坛 for the benefit of licence fee payers, not to emasculate it on behalf of commercial interests.鈥�

成人论坛's principles (way back in the 40s) were stated as 'educating, enlightening and entertaining' in that order. I actually loved the old-fashioned, rather patronising and precise style of that era, but the commercial chasing of ratings, and 'the public knows what it wants, rather than what it needs') attitude and keeping up with the likes of the Murdochs,has resulted in dumbing down to meet the wants of the lowest common denominator and attempts at 'equality' in our society, often with more spin than substance; eg some of NN's choice of populist topics, rather than in-depth investigation of important developments and worrying trends in our society.

With compulsory licence fees "The 成人论坛 has no choice but to serve all audiences" but I would prefer a reduction in the fee plus some pay-to-view' services that do not cater to the mass audience, despite the fact that I am exempt from paying the licence fee (but not the provider). However, I don't watch sport or most 'entertainment' so pay-to-view (including Newsnight) would suit me as I would then be more selective.

But, in the interest of freedom of speech - a diminishing commodity in my lifetime - keep the blog free!

"THE PUBLIC TRUST THE 成人论坛 . . ."

To do what, Sir Michael? How might the public discover when the 成人论坛 have been UNtrustworthy? After we have all lived 'within the lie' for generations, few know the truth of anything. Can I trust you?

from mimpromptu
I have previously announced opening an account with flickr under the name of mimpromptu. For a while it was, in fact, under a different name but now is under mimpromptu so if anyone would like to browse through the images, ditties and the like on my flickr, please feel free to do so.

#70 Barrie

You are being too hard. Just because the 成人论坛 knew in 2001 there was a 拢50 billion per year project to use the Millennium Dome as a global environmental centre. But then didn't tell the great British public, though they told them about all the the other tat, doesn't mean you can't trust them



Even the Government admit there was. The 成人论坛 just decided it wasn't in the the interests of the public to know about it. Let's just run those figures again. 拢50 billion per year over 8 years is 拢400 billion, even per year as a % of GDP 拢50 bn is just over 4%.

Back of the envelope calculations mean if the 成人论坛 had decided to tell the public, and the public liked the idea. So the Government would have had to gone for it. Instead of allowing a US company to stage MJ concerts instead.

There would have not been an economic recession in the UK. Obviously not really something important enough for the 成人论坛 to inform the British public about.

Ha ha ha

Celtic Lion

from mimpromptu
this morning I came up with a new ditty regarding the future I'm hoping for:

The Future?!

Dedicated to Poland and the UK on 01.09.2009

The truth is a marvellous beast
On which in the future to feast.

And further progress so made
Opening a new truthful gate
For nations to attempt to live,
And learn how to take and to give
What鈥檚 the best and most human in them -
To enemies of peace this way overwhelm.

I thought you would be interested in this article:

#74bgT Thanks for the link 'Putin blames WWII on Hitler deal'

At age seven on the day UK declared war on the Nazi's, I spent much of my childhood learning from my dad about the causes of the war, and moving little flags on our world map to plot the development of WWII.

It is well documented that there was great talk of appeasement - from royalty to Chamberlain - with Churchill being almost a lone voice warning of the dangers and urging UK to prepare. Putin conveniently forgets that UK assistance, offered during the second front, was refused. The facts stand, that both Russia and Germany had long schemed to grab land from Poland and other slav nations, and with some underhand collaboration between Stalin and Truman, Russia was permitted to reach Berlin before the Allies, resulting in the Cold War and continued enmity.

I feel disinclined to hear Putin's version of events (or to watch again the horrors of the Beslan School tragedy) and plan to celebrate my birthday and our ultimate victory in the last 'righteous' war at Union Jack Club for servicemen, where patriotism still survives.

'A day of commemorations is taking place in Poland to mark the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of World War II.

The first ceremony took place at dawn on Westerplatte peninsula near Gdansk, where a German battleship fired the first shots on a Polish fort in 1939.

In his address, Mr Tusk said the lessons of history should not be forgotten.

"We remember because we know well that he who forgets, or he who falsifies history, and has power or will assume power will bring unhappiness again like 70 years ago," he said. '

I utterly agree with Mr. Tusk .... but the kind of people who falsify history like the various Holocaust "Agnostics" and BNP-fellow travelers who pollute this page so often, in fact, revel in evil and unhappiness.

The falsifiers should be exposed as liars so that others are not drawn in.

But I fear the cult-like nature of their belief system means that some know they promote lies and that there is no scientific substance to their ideological perspective on race "realism" but they are bound to their whale like Captain Ahab.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#57 mimpromptu

"This is another obvious blackmail/threat coming from jj, the 'maestro' incarnate"

Actually I slightly disagree. "They" do use threat and try to harass the "normal" posters not bent by National Socialist doctrine or susceptible to contemptible lies.

They are trying to paint themselves as the victims of the "anarchists and Trotskyites" whilst on another day they will cheerfully hint at what they would like to do with regard to those of race.

For instance they still believe that Jews are an "internal political and economic threat" and the way that they handle their "agnosticism" on the Holocaust - whilst trying to promote doubt in the face of overwhelming evidence - means they do understand what happened and would probably do that again.

They would also probably be quite "harsh" on the "anarchists and Trotskyites" and so I cannot understand how any democrat would use a floating vote for the BNP.

Glad to see that they are not grinding you down.

On Lockerbie I read in the Guardian:

'The release of the documents follows a demand from Tripoli for Britain to provide details of an alleged 1996 plot to kill Gaddafi, in return for cooperation in the investigation into the murder of PC Yvonne Fletcher.

Mohammed Siala, Libya's secretary for international cooperation, said Tripoli was "waiting for some information" from Britain about an attack on Gaddafi near the Libyan city of Sirte. Britain has always denied involvement in the failed plot.'

It may well not be true, but some suggested that a then little known organisation called al Qaeda were used to chuck a few hand grenades at the Gaddafi convoy.

In the interests of National Security might the now greater need for fully understanding al Qaeda and how they got to be so well funded and well trained it may be an idea in this case to learn the lessons, possibly publicly.

Did they ever try again? Why then?

Of course al Qaeda are quite intelligent and would not be averse to sowing discontent amongst their enemies. It may not have been their people that spread the illusion but if so they must be concerned about improved relationships. I can't recall if the Libyans caught the perpetrators and of course that could be significant.

The only reason I ever took it seriously was the British media gave it a few inches rather than trumpeting the internal dissent against the mad-man Gaddafi... axis of evil etc etc.

The man, with whom we now hope to do substantial business and who could be a key intelligence ally, has a pretty poor human rights record and so the hypocrisy in the British stance is layered.

The publishing of the Megrahi notes just shows to the Labour elite that if you live by sofa politics you die by sofa politics.

REASONS, CAUSES AND CONTINGENT EVENTS

indignantindegene (#75) See Putin quote here, and see .

In the same vein, perhaps it's worth asking why we militarily went into Iraq and Afghanistan? Whose interests diod it really serve?

Reasons are not causes.... In fact, neither reaaons nor causes play much of a usful role in science.

thegangofone (#79) "...they still believe that Jews are an "internal political and economic threat".."

This has nothing to do with beliefs, but what the diplomatic record shows.

Example
Example
Example
Example

To dismiss historical records whilst abusing those who refer to them, asserting that these are mere 'beliefs', whist holding on to 'beliefs' oneself which are highly dubious and of unclear origin themselves, is most odd behaviour. Of course what is being said in tis long series of posts is surprising if not shocking, so of course it is unfamiliar to many. But does that alone make any of it false? May we not have been labouring under some false assumptions/beliefs? Is that logically impossible?

But then people do behave oddly at times, some more oddly, and more frequently, than others. Those who wage war sometimes do so with justification, sometimes they do not (cf. Iraq). Britain and France declared war on Germany in 1939.

Why? To whose benefit?

mimpromptu (#71) This, I suggest, is an instance of your having confused a mental state with physical reality. Try to learn from this, the essence of which is to look critically for feedback on one's own actions.