成人论坛

Comment on FOOD PRODUCTION: I think as far as the food production grows we need to take examples from Nature and try to learn from them.Fish in an aquarium grow depending on how much food they receive and how big the aquarium is. The same happens everywhere in Nature. We are now at a stage where the Earth鈥檚 population growth has ceased, and moreover, it must decrease back to its 鈥渘atural鈥� size. This means the population will have to be reduced to one-half billion or one billion people, since this is how many the planet is able to feed without destroying itself. his is the opinion of the scientists, in any case.

We鈥檙e ravaging the planet and its resources, and as a result, we鈥檙e destroying it. However, if we shift to a new type of interpersonal relationships, where everyone will consume only what they need in order to exist, and where everyone will be connected through bonds of mutual support, mutual guarantee, and love, then Nature will treat us differently. When we create this connection between us, we will be in balance with Nature. And then the Earth鈥檚 population can grow without a limit! The government or even better the common person must begin to learn about the laws of Nature and how to come into balance with them.

Today bankers and industrialists alike are saying that we lack the proper connection between us. We have natural resources and industries, we鈥檝e printed enough money, we have the desire - we have everything! We lack only one thing: the ability to establish a working connection between all of these things.

Everything has suddenly stopped working, even though there is plenty of everything in the world: airplanes, cars, factories, banks, food, you name it. So why doesn鈥檛 the system work? It doesn鈥檛 work because we don鈥檛 know how to connect all the components! But weren鈥檛 we able to do this before?

Yes, we were, but now it鈥檚 as though someone on the 鈥渙utside鈥� has pressed a button, and the former connection stopped working. Now, a new connection is needed. It is like a game of Monopoly, where the rules of the game have changed, and we must learn the new rules. It is a new program, which is being revealed today in the form of a universal connection.

All of humanity will soon feel numb, frozen, and the standstill will keep increasing until the last bit of air escapes from the tires and the whole machine stops completely. This will go on until we find the right connection.

The right connection means that we should behave like a global society, a 鈥渟mall village鈥� where everyone cares for everyone else. And this is only possible through caring and considering for your neighbor before yourself. So, until we follow this program and change our perception of the world, we cannot put the system into working order. We can go to war with each other or do anything else - nothing will help. The problem is that the connection between us is broken, and there is nothing left for us to do but unite by rising above our egoism. This is the only thing that will help.

Food production: is this the sound of the West beginning to wake up to the fact that WE may be short of food in the future? We would certainly have a very different culture when it is ourselves, in the millions, with no food. What will our attitude be towards anyone who wastes scarce resources then? Will we continue to turn a blind eye?

I hope we are all waking up to the plight of those overseas who are on a daily starvation diet. Now we see the lack of food will affect US in the future maybe we will start to take action.

It's about time.

Hmmm.. Let me get this right..

When the News of the World wants to expose paedophiles and expose them to reprisal attacks this is a BAD THING. And having a sex offenders register which is secret is a GOOD THING as it would otherwise force them underground.

But when the 成人论坛 wants to release the details of Baby P's tormentors this is a GOOD THING because, er, you say so....

I think of myself as a liberal, but increasingly the 成人论坛 and the Graun are just making up the rules as you go along - presumably after you have consulted each other about what the 'agreed line' on what is politically correct or acceptable in polite lefty liberal pretentious middle class metropolitan society this week.

From the top deck. No. 19.

A simplified perspective ......


Viable agricultural acreage .................. Finite
Carbon Fuels ............................................ Finite
Water .................................................... Finite
Ocean Food Stocks ...................................... Finite

And

Oh yes .............

Population ............................... Infinite.


Looks as though HMG is promoting a solution to the wrong problem?

"Global food production needs to rise by a whopping 70% by 2050 to meet the demands of a growing world population, climate change, and a worldwide battle for limited natural resources." Environ-mental Minister

Wrong, the growth in world population needs to be halted to meet the urgent need for a sustainable planet.

We certainly need a radical debate, not on methods of increasing food production but on methods of reducing human reproduction.

That debate must not include the chemical industry giants and genetical modifiers. It should commence, like any problem-solving by identifying and defining the Problem, before looking for Solutions. The problem is clearly over-population; so we should all be brain-storming on -
'How can we avoid the creation of yet another 3 billion people, most of whom will not be able to support themselves and will be a further burden on the Earth's already overstretched resources?'

Policies to reward only replacement-level families may be a start for UK.

This century's worldwide multimedia has informed and empowered the world's poor with the knowledge that 'developed' nations enjoy a vastly better life than do they. This has driven mass immigration and higher aspirations. A bowl of rice is no longer sufficient: the millions of newly affluent Chinese and Asians now aspire to steak and all the other consumables of the West, and in turn we demand World Trade to extend our range of consuming (because you're worth it!). So rain-forests are sacrificed for grazing cattle and growing cereals to feed them, and to solve the fuel crisis. And more land is built on with homes for the burgeoning populations, with heavy industries and mining of ores.

It's a wake-up call OK, and we may have suggestions to put forward (eg restore the practice of turning waste food into pig-swill, under strict local government controls, to restrict the un-ecological growing of cereal crops to produce animal feeds) but first let's focus on the cause of the problem in UK and start to protest at any further over-population of our congested island.

It has now been established that most new jobs have gone to immigrants. Most in the service industries, not manufacturing, and created to meet the needs of our population increase! Potential food shortage has to be one of the many costs of such a short-sighted policy.

The obsession with GROWTH should be confined to grow-your-own food.

why does food production have to rise at all? if we eat twice as much as we need at the moment, eating the normal amount in the future will sort the problem,

by the way what on earth is the term 'the noughties' meant to mean?

still think tweeting is a waste of time and it's action that counts

the spin for gm

over a few days say

1. say organic food is rubbish

2.say there is massive concern over food supply.

3. get a govt minister to say only gm solves the problems.

gm is not the answer. gm is about controlling the seed supply by contaminating all seed stock with the gm part so that the owners of the patent can then charge fees and so control the food supply.

organic farmers are being sued in the courts by gm firms when they use their seed that has been contaminated by windblown and insect transferred gm for infringement of patent.

surely the law should say if gm infects any seed its the gm firms who should pay compo to clean up the land and for loss of earnings. but no.farmers whose seed gets infected pay compo to the gm firms. the govt loves the gm firms.

the same govt people who brought us iraq war and credit crunch now want to sell the food supply to gm firms.

#7 bookhimdano Very well observed! : ) In the back of my head GM has been trying to push it's way forward, but you have clearly worked out the path. I've kept wondering what all the hoo ha has been about food lately, you've got it in one. They never worry about the population going up, or mention encouraging people to have fewer children, it's just keep on breeding, we have ways to keep you fed, and it'll make a lot of money for someone.

Britain should always be self sufficient and not rely only on imports. While livestock is raised cheaply (and perhaps more greenly) in Brazil, is the quality of the livestock particularly good? There does need to be population control, but would the EU be able to enforce a one child policy like China? Fat chance!

It was chilling to see the murderers of Baby Peter Connelly (Baby P) tonight. Excellent points raised by Kirsty with Sophie Hutchinson and the Lib Dem MP. Good on the 成人论坛 for showing these people! I hope they do get indefinite sentences and rot in jail.

The global food production issue is pure scaremongering when you look at the way we use the planets agricultural land.
History tells us that the more affluent people become the more meat they consume. And when you consider that meat production , apart from being as a whole the biggest environmetal offender on the planet, is extremely in efficient, you start to realise how this one habitat effects practicularly all our agricultural lands. Vast amounts of food needs to be fed to a cow or a pig to get a pound of meat, 160kg of CO2 produced for every Kg of beef produced( new Scientist 08). Then when you consider that our habit( mainly the habit of the west) to eat meat means 70% of all farmed land on the planet is devoted to grazing or growing food to feed to livestock( UN report, livestocks longshadow 07), and that this is a staggering 30% of the entire land surface of the planet, it becomes clear it is totally unsustainable. Half the world starves while the other wants it meat, , you can see how we could change our habitats and feed the world quite comfortable. Meat twice a week not twice a day for a healthy life and planet.

THE NIHILISTIC NOUGHTIES - FLAGSHIP NEWSNIGHT - HELMSMAN KIRSTY WARK

Will the last brain-cell, atrophying in the UK, please turn out the lights.

The item on degraded humanity in a decaying culture (I will not stoop to its sound-bite designation) was about as tabloid as it gets. Further, Kirsty should not be let loose on a word such as: "inevitable" as her enunciator circuits lose interest long before the job is completed. Her interruptions were as crass as ever.

As a barometer of Britain's decline, Newsnight, you are without peer.
For anyone to weep, in these times, would be an indulgence.

It's mind numbing. It's grotesque. Why is Newsnight telling us that we are all so terribly shocked by the parents of Baby P? It's not as if we haven't been here before! But do tell: Does Tony Blair need a safe house for having taken us to war in Iraq? Please, do, jump on that bandwagon, instead of this medievalist shock horror fabrication you have sullied your programme with. What are you doing going on and on about the James Bulger killers, the Bell girl and so on. What gives Newsnight, of all programmes, the licence to treat its audience to a souped-up witchhunt? That is not what you are supposed to be about! It was actually sad to see Kirsty lending her talents to this repellant, lurid stuff. Shame on Newsnight.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#10 Domlogger

Typical eco / health fascist propaganda, the fact remains that a large proportion of UK agricultural land is unsuitable for anything other than meat production. In many cases that comes down to sheep and beef and if the UK is to become more self sufficient in food supply that means eating more meat. Grants to drain hill farms falling back into bog fallow due to the foolish past use of large tractors, likewise spreading lime to combat the acid soil conditions. Thanks to the eco-fascists thousands of acres of once cereal / veg productive coastal land has been sacrificed in the interest of " wildfowl ". Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you could buy " managed shot or trapped fowl " in supermarkets, but then politicians often care more about animals than people.

HE IS GOING TO NEED A THUMPING FORTRESS WHEN THE 9/11 BALLOON GOES UP. (#12)

I refer to our Tony, Juno19. You make a very good point. Blair was as scruple-free, and careless of human pain (when he engineered his Holy War with Bush) as any scapegoat proles. Disordered minds come in all types and all walks of life. We are told that psychopaths run big business and Aspergers are computer nerds, but what of the miscellaneous - uncharacterised - traumatised, needy individuals who yearn for status, adulation and (a sense of) power? Many are in Westminster because WE fail to SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

Kirsty opened Newsnight with out a script in hand and kept her hands still, that speaks of confidence. But is it really live ? Watch other presenters *live*, few will do that, script in hand is a strong safety net.

The whole baby P thing and other human monsters just revolts me. All I need to know is that they are locked up before I switch over or off.

Been growing tomatoes in the garden for years.

Regarding the anti-religion stance of the nihilistic noughties.

One contributor on the programme mentioned the human need to believe in something better than themselves.

The acceptance of mindless consumer junk culture as the main purpose of life does occassionally make one think "isn't there a better way of living?"

I guess there isn't, but it would be nice to escape the out of town celebrity chef liberal comedian does endless pop music while believing wine is art on a reality game show while adding value to houses by knocking down their walls shopping experience for an hour or two.

I tend to question the current set up most when I'm stuck in a traffic jam on my way to buy yet another piece of "modern" furniture which was originally designed in the 1950s.

The 1950s was the last decade of major innovation, but the media hates the 1950s because that era is not perceived as liberal enough, despite it being the decade which dismantled the British empire and paved the way for the liberal social revolution of the 1960s. The 1960s then looked back to the 1920s for inspiration, but that's another story.

Give me an A30 over a Mini any time.

#17 from mimpromptu
MrTweedy
This one is as good as the one you sent on 22 or 23 July. I wrote back to you then but got told off by JJ who was ranting about something of me recruiting you (?) - haven't worked it out yet.
I find your postings interesting for their historical perspective you describe things with, and that's whether you do or do not like my postings. Hope you have a good day.

#16
streetphotobeing
When Kirsty and I met in the loo at the Landmark Hotel on Jeremy's evening on 23 April and just before shaking hands, she asked me 'And who are you?' to which I replied 'Oh, I am an oddball', and then I added, just in case, that I didn't always watch Newsnight when she was on because of the things that were going behind the scenes and which I didn't like.
Am I an oddball,
A Brit and a Pole?
Am I an orb
That floats with this globe?
Not only a Brit
and not just a Pole.
I am a twirler
Though somewhat elder
Than many a dancer
Performing today.
Wherever we're from
We like to perform
Whether a Pole
or yet some other part of the globe.

It's just a rhyming dittie that's come to my mind this morning, not more than a bit of twirling with words really.
Kirsty was great last night.

No.18. mimpromptu

Dear Mim,

Thank you for your kind words. Some say that to live in the past robs one of the present. I have a love of history because it helps predict the future. Human nature doesn't change, and tends to react to similar circumstances in similar ways.

Some say today's stock market is following the trend line of the 1929-1932 Wall Street Crash, when the US market lost 90% of its value over two years. However, back then a large number of US banks were left to go bankrupt which meant people and businesses lost their entire life savings. Also, shares were being traded on margin during the boom of the 1920s. This meant no real money was being put up to purchase the shares. By contrast today, we have at least stopped the commercial banks collapsing, and recent share trading was based on real money, even if that money was borrowed to invest. So, I'm betting on a bull market for shares in the longer term, especially if Quantitative Appeasing succeeds in causing price inflation.

You seem to have a liking for the arts. I am glad that Goldie has moved towards classical music. I have a liking for the chap. Although I wouldn't necessarily buy his music, I do have a fondness for the rhythms of drum and base when I hear it.

#20
Thank you for the Goldie, Mr Tweedy. Does sound good. Will follow it further when time on hands.

high food prices last year [like oil] were due to speculation not shortage which is why uk farmers can't make a profit. if there was a real shortage the farming would be the highest earning sector in the uk. its not. so this govt food offensive is just a wind up to get gm in.

uk farmners are more interested in compo to fund their lifestyle and keeping the city rif raff out of 'their countryside'. Most of the 4 billion a year farming subsidy goes to millionaires. its just another wealth transfer from poor to rich.

only 10% of the uk is built on in which 99% of the people live in. the remainder [mainly equestrian class] want to keep it that way.

the uk has perfect climate for apples yet we import them when we should be exporting them. shows what the govt really think about a food strategy.

there is an inner empire of public funded landowners in the uk who have a picture of the haywain in their heads as the only model for the uk. so they build their arguments through the CLA, NT and others to achieve that objective even though it is a false belief.

the team were quite right to come home. we know the FO will do nothing if taken hostage [e.g iraq]. the french, italians etc get their people out but any british person knows, left to the shinning eyed neocons in the FO, they have no hope.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

NN seems to have confused god with religion and churches. NN also probably thinks god is an old man in the sky. talk about dumbing down to create more heat than light

what are the current religions? celebrity? wealth? ratings?

Recent changes to tax law mean "lifestyle farmers" now find it harder to escape inheritance tax.

Nos 19

"When Kirsty and I met in the loo at the Landmark Hotel on Jeremy's evening on 23 April and just before shaking hands, she asked me 'And who are you?' to which I replied"

You have some confidence as well . Doubt I would approach Jeremy and say hello.


Today is the first day Ive been out of pain for a month have a very relieved feeling. Have a few, future word verbal photon-torpedoes for the nhs system but still a bit delicate for heavy duty blogging at the moment.

AS JADED JEAN IS ABSENT (#25)

I would like to add 'SELF' to your list of religions bookhim. This being the only thing the ever expanding millions of narcissists believe in.

Your use of 'ratings' very nice. (:o)

SHAM SHAME

James Brown is, reportedly, 'sad and angry'. Is that combination feasible (in a normal person)?

He says the Aung San Su Chi trial was a 'sham'. NOW there's a word worth pondering. I rather suspect that either his sadness, or his anger, or both, fall under the heading 'sham' - along with 'moral compass' and 'son of the manse'.

Nice sentiment - shame about the sham.

3 YRS, 3 YRS AND 10 YRS!!!!!!!!!!!

The liberial-left have fostered this sickness and evil to run rampant in our society; they are solely to blame. When did 'life' become 'minimum 10 yrs' ? I don't think even Roy Jenkins envisaged the woefully inadequate standard issue prison sentence would follow after he tinkered with the Criminal justice system all those years ago. Criminal behaviour if unchecked becomes the norm for many but somehow we've allowed this to carry on to the point where the prison population is bursting at the seams and lags get out early so as to free up space. When a criminal act once deemed bad enough for a custodial sentence is now not even acted upon by the police nor the courts.

A sterility programme for those unsuitable for parenthood including the convicted of the most heinious crimes such as multiple rapes with castration a mandatory penalty would be a good start in reducing the genetically morally corrupt. Murder should have a tariff no less than 15 yrs with life as max with no parole and the death penalty an option. Our justice system needs to be more robust earlier on in a criminals career, prison should be an unpleasent experience for its inhabitants and not a career hazard, then our prisons won't be so full and judges won't have to be guided anymore by prison population considerations when handing down a sentence. The Liberal left in their desire to be more civilised, understanding and forgiving towards the criminal class has only made our society more uncivilised with an ever increasing victim tally. At present there is only one political party that appears to want to stop this rot and get tough...and it ain't any of the mainstream parties.

#27
streetphotobeing
in fact i did approach Jeremy as well and he did seem like an approachable kind of chap. I said a couple of words, or perhaps three, we shook hands and I went back home as this was right at the end of the Gala.
I'm happy to hear that you are beginning to feel better, streetphotobeing.
Have written more ditties, they just seem to be pouring out.

29. At 1:13pm on 11 Aug 2009, barriesingleton wrote:
SHAM SHAME

James Brown is, reportedly, 'sad and angry'. Is that combination feasible (in a normal person)?

LOL. Maybe, as 'we' are being run by remote, the Blackberry transcription was lacking?

It would be nifty to insert a virus that turned such stuff into better governance. Hence 'lessons have been learned' would end up as 'the sorry sods responsible have been fired and their pensions pulled', etc.

Of course, 'we are right behind you' will pretty much come out pretty much the same.

Normal person service might never be resumed.

Food shortage,or a bid for GM ?

Unlike 成人论坛's 'Have Your Say' NN does not provide the option for bloggers to click on a 'Recommended' box to indicate whether they support each blog.

Looking through today's Newsnight blog it looks like even support for views on

Over-Population v GM bid. A similar topic on 成人论坛 'Have Your Say' yielded
the reslt below a few minutes ago; I have erased (redacted!) the name of the top voted blog to protect the innocent. Reading the first page of top blog shows the message loud and clear from the GBP is Over-population:-
Added: Monday, 10 August, 2009, 05:53 GMT 06:53 UK

At what point will we decide stop this insane rush to cram as many humans as possible onto the face of the earth, sooner or later it will go into overload, with famine an inevitable end (along with pandemic and war).
Let鈥檚 target population control and border control rather than deciding if we all eat lentils then we can squeeze another couple of billion more people in before the end.
Of course there will always be that classic fall back position in times of famine, cannibalism.

xxxx xxxxxx Salisbury Wessex

Recommended

I told you so, but what are we all going to do about it?

#33 addendum

The number of 'Recommended' votes for the 成人论坛's 'Have Your Say' on Food Shortage was no printed out for some reason. The post quoted got 262 'Recmmended' hits when I looked a few minutes ago.

I think over-population is the Elephant in the room in politics. How do you solve the problem without conflicting the basic human rights of man. I think most politicians think talking about it as a political shot to the foot. A similar thing has happened with over the years as , although at least the general public are starting to care about the issue.

Barrie, JunkkMale et al in the J G Brown society.

Try this, I was surprised, there is a touch of real professional production here.

Now this food nonsense is certainly a "hobgoblin" with government in general & that ---- Benn in particular looking for something more to regulate. World food production has never been greater & it is technically possible to increase it manyfold more. The idea of people who can't stay solvent printing money telling supermarkets how to get food on the shelves is ludicrous. These parasites should just get out of the way & let the market work.

SUSTAINABILITY IS MEDIATED BY TABOO OR WISDOM - WE HAVE NEITHER.

The moment Hom Sap departed from living in limited groups with just enough weaponry to balance lack of speed, teeth and claws; and with taboos against further innovation, we were doomed to arrive where we are. Then we made the mistake of failing to balance cleverness with wisdom. As the imbalance grew, we began to laud cleverness and only dopey foreigners clung on to aspects of wisdom - usually mixed with some cockeyed religious stuff that made it harder to respect.
Now, as I have posted, we await the removal of the word 'wisdom' from the Oxford English Dictionary as, in modern life, it has nothing left to describe.
Charisma is not wisdom. Fooling most of the people most of the time has nothing to do with wisdom. Schooling does not bring out wisdom.

EVERY DAY THE CLEVER MAN FINDS HE KNOWS SOMETHING MORE - AND THE WISE MAN IS A LITTLE LESS CERTAIN.

Earth's exploding/collapsing populations, their health and sustenance, their wholeness of being - lack of which feeds into crime among them (including war and full prisons) - all require ministrations of profound wisdom, if harmony is ever to reign.

But where now does wisdom flourish in our fetid, 'world-beating' culture, and how can it ever defeat the enticements of cleverness?

36. At 4:15pm on 11 Aug 2009, KingCelticLion wrote:

Slick indeed. The song vocals and even end VO had me quite fooled until the content became clear.

But I fear it was a tad over-egged, and the demonic allusions rather redolent of the less than sparkly Blair poster that the Conservatives mis-used.

ps: to try and avoid topicality issues, on matters food production, I have to say that any discussion on food production that does not place the available area (especially when finite) and the numbers of folk in, and/or adding to it (by whatever charged method that must not speak its name in polite company) in context is... lacking.

Author Philippe Legrain, let's think abut what he said.

All our food should be imported. No, it should not.

His book has taken bit of a thrashing on one famous web site, 鈥�...often is missing facts and references when they are most sorely needed. The authors opinion of himself is quite high ....鈥�.

I see his book is priced at 拢9.00. Quite expensive. I am sure the publishers could have found someone in the Far East to write the book for a lot less than they paid him. Though I am not too sure he would agree with that.

A few years ago I published a book, The printing costs worked out at about a 拢1 per book. We could have had it done in the the Far East for 25p but we choose to support a British Printer.

Television is much cheaper to produce in Africa should we scrap the 成人论坛?

Newsnight can you find someone with a little more intelligence next time you cover this topic?

------------------

Apart from the 成人论坛 not being filmed in Africa & the assertion, supported by no attempt at facts, that we "should not" be importing much cheaper food do you have any evidence based reasons for supporting the government controling food distribution Solzhen? The record of government reducing costs & improving efficiency by more regulation does not inspire confidence.

Part of the list of scientists which set up the new generation of UK climate models and contributed to the 2007 Nobel. From NERC website


Dr Rowan Sutton University of Reading Climate and Earth System Modelling

Dr Gail Taylor University of Southampton Global climate change and forests carbon balance of fast growing energy forests - POPFACE Renewable energy carbon-neutral trees Molecular genetics and genomics Water balance in future climates

Mr Roger Thomas MP2 Negative entropy as a common denominator in integrated systems modelling. Prediction of complex systems and the synthesis of ecological principles to socio-economic systems.

Prof Alan Thorpe NCAS Weather and climate predictability and modelling