³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

The CIA...the last people on earth to talk of justice

Gordi holds all the cards by saying nothing - for the moment.

Alex Salmond was quick to insist when Blair signed the treaties with Libya that firstly it would be the "Scottish Government"'s decision to let Al-Megrahi go as part of any Prisoner Exchange Agreement and secondly that as far as Alex was concerned Al-Megrahi would stay in Greenock Prison.

So what changed?

What was the content of the discussion between McAskill and Al-Megrahi, shortly before the appeal was withdrawn?

As Alex has said and Gordi has repeated, Al-Megrahi's release was purely a matter for the Scottish Government.

Did Alex get some reassurance that the US reaction would be less anti than it actually is? And where did that reassurance come from?

A sad indictment on the credibility of Scottish/British investigative and judicial capability, but I give more credence to the evidence garnered by the German police about what actually were the events leading up to the plane disaster.

In which case, by putting this on the table at an appeal hearing, the lawyers bring the Scottish system into disrepute, so Alex tells Kenny to let the poor soul go on compassionate grounds to avoid being seen to dance to the Prisoner Exchange tune set by Tony.

And if things go pear-shaped we can always blame Westminster.

CIA spook says Megrahi was freed before appeal humiliated justice system.

A CIA terror expert who worked on the Lockerbie investigation has claimed Megrahi would have been freed on appeal.
The CIA knew this almost from the moment the plane exploded. This decision to free Megrahi was about protecting the integrity of your justiciary because the appeal papers prove Iran was involved.
...had it been presented at Camp Zeist, there would never have been a conviction.

"It would be very clear there was some form of prosecutorial misconduct in this case and that Megrahi did not get a fair trial."

A senior Iranian intelligence officer who fled to Turkey also claims Iran masterminded the bombing.



so not only would he have not been convicted in the usa but the usa think the iranians did it and the only reason for release was to stop the appeal?

so isn't the usa, for no good reason, trying to whisk water into a thick cream? pathetic.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"and the general revulsion at the celebrations and Saltire waving that greeted his return to Tripoli."

Serious question: Why do some people (allegedly) find it revolting that some people in Libya are waving the Saltire and celebrating his home coming? Is not waving the Saltire a way of saying thank you? What should those who met the plane done? Booed and hissed?

Do some think they were celebrating the plane being blown up? If so, how do they know that's what they were celebrating? It looks like an assumption to me. If they'd had big banners in English/Arabic saying 'Well done for blowing up PanAm 103' I could understand. But they didn't....did they?

Having spoken to Mr Al McGrahi's lawyers, on a different matter, for what it's worth I found them decent and conscientious people.

In previous posts I have outlined serious faults within the justice systems of both England and Wales, and Scotland. It is one thing getting the evidence. It is quite another being able to present it or have it looked at.

There appears to be so many political games, plots, deals, power plays, subterfuge behind the decision to release Mr McGarhi, we may never know the truth.

For those outside of Scotland please do not ever imagine the SNP are some small parochial benevolent simple party. They are slick political operators and manipulators who can run with and beat the best.

Perhaps with so many games MacAskill did truly revert to just 'Due Process under Scottish Law' and did honestly resort to releasing him on compassionate grounds. Sometimes 'all the voices' can become too much, and the easiest solution is to ignore them and just take the simple option.

So where are we. Perhaps we should see the good and what can come out of this for the greater long term good. Unlike the opposition politicians I am proud to have seen the Saltire waved in Tripoli. A positive image to have been seen all around the world.

There are massive challenges which face the world, challenges we must confront and solve as one world. That is the people, the planet, the animals and plants. We cannot afford the divisions of politics and the game play of politicians to get in the way.

Perhaps those Scottish flags fluttering in an North African night are the start of something positive. An end to the division, mistrust, war and conflict of the past. And the beginning of the future, a new world order, our new world order. One world, one love, one commitment to look after each other and this planet, and to make a better future for this Earth we are all part of and share.

Celtic Lion

"and the general revulsion at the celebrations and Saltire waving that greeted his return to Tripoli."

Newsnight please don't include 'me' in 'your' all inclusive 'we'.

'I' was proud to see the flag being waved. Pehaps they were just being waved as a way of saying thank you for letting a dying man come home.

Anyway on another level. Why has no one asked, where did they get them from? What time Libyan time was he released? Were the shops shut? How did all those large, identical, high quality Saltires suddenly appear? Who supplied them and why?

Sometimes journalists miss the real story even if it's being waved in their face.

Celtic Lion

Well Kirsty I'm glad that 'Newsnight' has finally got round to doing the Lockerbie story ...... I hope you remember to mention that The Scottish
Criminal Cases Review Commission suggested that the verdict might have been unsafe ... and I hope you don't suggest as did the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳'s 6 O'clock
News that all the Opposition parties in The Scottish Parliament united
on this issue in criticising the SNP - they didn't .... a former Labour
Minister of Health (Malcolm Chisholm) backed Kenny McAskill's decision,
describing it in The Chamber as 'courageous'. I also hope that as Patron of The Maggie's Centre movement you will share the astonishment of many at the completely inappropriate suggestion made by Labour and Tory MSPs
that he could have been transferred along with 48 policemen to a hospice.

The SNP consistently opposed - indeed was incandescent - at the dirty deal in the desert struck by the British Government with Gadaffi over
'Prisoner Transfer' and clearly rejected repatriation on these grounds.
Perhaps too if the British Labour Government wants to punish Libya for
the reception at the airport, instead of focusing on the issue of the
two Saltires [they were possibly left their some years back by Labour
MP for Leith 'Afghan Ron' was one suggestion being made in Labour ranks up here today!] you could perhaps ask Foreign Office Special Envoy Jack McConnell why The British Council gives free English lessons to Libyan
elites in Tripoli. Is this perhaps to smooth those wheels of commerce?



Hopefully too you will find time soon to tell us who actually won the election in Afghanistan? And how many ballot boxes were being stuffed?

bookhimdano (#3) Thanks for that. It still succeeds in vilifying Iran once again, and without the public proof either. ;-)

I wouldn't like to have to deal with ...or any other time.

nothing about the 7 year low of the gas price and the 80% rise in gas profits?

Any news from Afghanistan about the election? These first reports are
not very encouraging:



I also thought that Kenny McAskill did Scotland proud today - and I think many people were impressed by Malcolm Chisholm's intervention
in breaking party ranks and describing the decision as 'courageous'.

Opposition suggestions that he could have been transferred to a hospice in Scotland along with a media circus and 48 policemen were ridiculous!

On a lighter note: one Labour source quipped today that possibly the
Saltires at the airport in Tripoli were left behind by MP Afghan Ron:

what seems to have been missed recently by NN is the appeal could not go ahead. Remember a judge went ill and the appeal was not due to restart until next month at the earliest.



Would McGrahi die before the Judge was well enough to resume?

Effectively he was being denied an appeal through not fault of his own. What option was there other than to send him home? It would have been wrong to make him wait so long. Would he die before an appeal could be heard?

The Scottish justice system could not provide him with an appeal, that would fall within the prognosis of his illness.

I don't understand why the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ books John Bolton. He's clearly a fool.

Why on earth do you insist on giving that animal Bolton airtime? We know what he's going to say before he opens his mouth. Having said that, he only reinforces the opinions of those of us who know that America has nothing to teach us about justice - I won't bother listing all the reasons, but it starts with Guantanamo. I think that the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ generally is running the story from an anti-SNP government standpoint; that and we mustn't do anything to upset the Americans. Perhaps your team should listen to a tape of the phone-in on your own ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Scotland this morning to get an impression of what a good many real people think. Personally, I'm fed up of hearing opinions from across the Atlantic. You might also broadcast the views of some of the Scottish church leaders, and Malcolm Chisholm and Henry McLeish.

If anyone wants to contact me I can forward the original submission to a United Nations Environment and Development report commissioned by the UK Government in 2002.

This is a foundation for the 2005 G8 agenda in Perthshire of climate change and Africa. It also relates a risk assessment of terrorism.

Within the submission the concepts of compassion and forgiveness are in included to support the aforementioned agenda. Very similar to the justifications used in the Al-Megahri release.


Celtic Lion

how can mr McAskill have the final say on the release of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, a matter so delicate, this should have been discussed by senior members of parliment before the release if any took place, but why release Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi and not Ronnie Briggs who's only crime was to steal money,i don't agree what Ronnie done but i believe he has been treated worse than a terrorist.

It's Newsnight's remit to give airtime to a diverse range of viewpoints. But allowing ungracious bully-boys to spout their adolescent polemic on British tv is too much! Please, please Newnight. . .no more John Bolton!

You indicate a stretch of years in this manner: "2005 - '05"; not "2002-5".

John Bolton is a good counter to the usual amateurism, i.e. leftism, found in many Newsnight reports. I like his ability to forcefully respond to a wishy-washy lefty statement. What is infuriating is Newsnight's propensity to wheel him out as proof of their balance.

By the way, I can't believe I am the only Briton to be disgusted by al-Megrahi's release, though I understand it entirely. I've witnessed day after day of the Americans portrayed as uncaring brutes, out for revenge, while us Britons (you know the media is itching to refer to us as Europeans) see the world in a 'progressive' light. I'd like it to be known I count myself among the silent majority, that I'm sure is out there, who support the 'American' view.

THE OLD INVESTGATION PLOY

There can only be one reason to investigate the CIA, and that is to NOT FIND the 'worst stuff', by finding enough 'bad stuff' to satisfy the baying hounds.

No doubt there is a page or two on this in 'The Prince'.

MICHAEL JACKSON

/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/06/friday_26_june_2009.html

From Friday 26th June

"Oh they are saying he died before he was due to play the O2 Millennium Dome.

Well if he had lost his bottle it would have been a financial disaster for he very big and powerful backers.

At least now he has died from 'natural causes' the insurance should pay out."

I was being ironic and tongue in cheek. And insuring it got past the mods. Hope you realised what I knew 2 months ago. NN missed that exclusive.

Celtic Lion

streetphotobeing
from mimpromptu
When I wrote about not receiving any reply from the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ I forgot that they had sent me a kind of reply to my complaints about 'mimpromptu' being changed to 'you', which I still don't understand, /Is it the case with everybody's posts?/ and about blatant unfairness of my ditties having been deleted on 28 July while Barrie Singleton's poem about a spider in a bath was allowed through. However, what they posted was not exactly an explanation but rather some blurb about how to make complaints about each offensive posting. Not that this has had any effect, anyway, once applied.
I wonder whether the mods will allow a couple of my deleted ditties to go through now? They are quite innocent and, after all, I did have positive replies to them from Mistress76uk and yourself.
One smile a day keeps doctors away
Six smiles a day, gets even better
Fifty or so, you are in heaven
And you're ready to come down to seven

Mistress76uk

76 one Mistress chose
to blog her priceless texts.
UK is her other choice.
When will we hear next?
Not only priceless but also quite kind
Mistress UK! Warm is her mind.
Streetphotobeing not feeling that well -
She sends him well wishes.
And so does this Mrs.

KCL (#20) "I knew 2 months ago."

Please tell us how you think that you knew that.

from mimpromptu
Have just watched a few fragments of last night's Newsnight. Didn't Kirsty Wark look great? And with it she had such an air of wonderful dignity and her face seemed to be glowing!
Re: authorisation of extreme torture techniques as used by the CIA - it seems to me that it couldn't have been anybody else but the previous President of the USA, Mr George W Bush. I may, of course, be wrong and admit that it is only a supposition but for some reason I have a gut feeling that it was Bush Jr. /+ I've just found a website on the internet entitled: George W. Bush Jr. - the Dark Side/.

mimpromptu (#23) Did you think David Grossman 'looked great' last night? Or on previous nights, Gavin Esler?....

...I can't believe I am the only Briton to be disgusted by al-Megrahi's release, ..

which suggests you buy into the whole show trial bent evidence masquerading as justice idea? even usa spooks admit they could not have convicted him on that 'evidence'.

their 'outrage' is synthetic if not irrational and duplicitous given their views on who really did it?

rather than let some live under that deluded notion would it not be better for an inquiry to reveal all the evidence that would have come out in the appeal?

not sure the gitmo/abu gharaib waterboarders are in some high moral ground to lecture anyone about justice and law?

WAITING FOR BOZO

Esler glows and Grossman glitters
Celtic forecasts - Promptu twitters
The censor cannot hold
And the last line is an even greater disaster.

PS Don't remove John Bolton - he makes Mandy look angelic (except for the wig, of course. That could do with a little help.

streetphotobeing
Doesn't he have the cheek of addressing me, the one who claims to be my pimp?
- didn't watch Gavin Esler last Friday so don't know
- why suddenly ask about David Grossman? Is jj's real name David by any chance?

#26 ha,ha, barrie thanks for the wig point. I sat there thinking is it or isn't it, but the perfection pointed it up. Trouble is you stop listening and start wondering, it's a woman thing! ; )

to streetphotobeing from mimpromptu - as above
Have just tried to watch Jeremy Paxman /I always like the way he looks/ on University Challenge but the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ iplayer will not let me although there is a statement that last night's programme is available to watch for the next 6 days./?/

Aren't some people truely mad... they're dead for chrissake dead

barrie (#26) "except for the wig, of course. That could do with a little help."

What!?! His mustache is a wig? I was trying to imagine him without it last night. He's a bit of a dark hawk isn't he?

Aside: It seems my lessons in the dangers of affirming false antecedents and intensional idioms in general still hasn't hit the spot. But every cloud has a silver lining - I've now discovered a spell check in my browser thanks to a very helpful critic's revealing outburst of narcissistic rage.

Will my credibility/infamy now soar I wonder, or must I now find and activate a Machiavellian/Mandelson auto-translator tool too? ;-)

Compassionate Release Anyone?

mimpromptu (#27) "why suddenly ask about David Grossman?"

It's a discrimination thing. Have you not noticed?

whilst on the subject, here's one I did earlier on the subject (#5).

ecolizzy (#30) "Aren't some people truely mad..."

Sadly it's far too common to be madness. The Personality Disorders themselves (Axis II, Cluser B especially) are probably just extremes of normal personalty which are dysfunctional. Girls and boys play, imagine and dream, which is all a bit 'mad' when one really thinks about it. We used to reward sensible behaviour in adults, now we treat it as boring and oppressive. I reckon there are group diferences in prevalence though, there must be...surely (remember teh LA Times on Hollywood link?)

I blame the parents (genetically) ;-)

PS. , and where has all that money gone.....i.e. what did they do to raise it ? ;-)

erratum (#34) Apologies for not using my spell-check. I'm new at this ;-)

from mimpromptu to streetphotobeing again
It seems worth noting jj's admission to his association with Peter Mandelson, of which I have been convinced for a long time now. He's threatening again, probably more myself than anybody else. I wonder what he's planning?

This is the 'perfect storm' Celtic Lion has been warning about for 12 months



It is not a 'climate only' model the media has been popularising until now. Even these models are incorrect as other factors of an exponential nature are excluded.

Bring the horizon much closer, circa 40 months. You have been warned.


Celtic Lion

BY THEIR ERRORS SHALL YE KNOW THEM (#35)

Oh Jean! (Or may I call you Jaded?) In my superior state as ultimate assessor, I inferred much (and drew not a little solace) from your acts of vandalism to grammar, syntax and spelling!

Now you are to hide behind 'the facility of windows'* (precisely as I have always done) NEITHER of us is an honest broker; and where will that lead?

* Not to be confused with the 'wisdom of crowds' or the 'banality of bloggers'. (:o)

#128 from previous page
Celtic Lion
It's very touching what you wrote there, about one world, one love, etc., but I'm afraid personally I'm under no illusion whatsoever of this ever happening. Yes, the world seems smaller, as they say, these days as if we all lived in some open space village where information passes through one corner of the world to another with almost unbelievable speed.
It's enough to follow jj's postings and behaviour to realise that it is not possible. There will always be people who love power too much, or money too much; people born with criminal minds or perhaps circumstantially turned into ones, to ever hope for total piece and love and understanding, etc. Jealousy is another powerful force that can turn humans into killers.
As I said in my verses the other day, all I hope for is perhaps 'to make this world a little more kindred', as the opportunity seems to have arisen for me to do so.

from mimpromptu to whoever should be interested
I've opened my own account with flckr where, should anybody be interested, I've made available visual information about myself, so you can see what I look /or have looked in the past/, about what I've been up to in the last couple of years or so and simply what my eyes see through the lenses of my cameras through the passage of time.
I can be found on flckr under mimpromptu as well.

KingCelticLion (#37) "This is the 'perfect storm' Celtic Lion has been warning about for 12 months"

You've been very busy. Did you have anything to do with ?

THE CENTRE CAN HOLD - BUT NOW ONLY PAIN (#37)

Ho Celtic. You are still trying to 'save' physical man - but mental man is already lost, and physical man is now just a vehicle for his madness.
Psychological pain and physical pain are felt in precisely the same centre of cognition - hence the linguistic parallels. Better to let the earth purge itself of ALL pain, back to whatever level of life is viable - and then 'go round again'. Maybe next time we will ALL be Kogi.

Always look on the bright side of life.

from mimpromptu to streetphotobeing
Apologies, streetphotobeing, I seem to keep you rather occupied these days, if you're still paying attention, that is.
But, I'm not sure whether jj is expecting me to love and fancy, as a woman, all men equally? Or is he expecting me to make love to all the men requesting the act or what? I wonder also why he's defending the moustache wearing John Bolton so much and who has featured so 'strongly' on Jeremy Paxman's google images site? Never mind the image of the moustache wearing and finger pointing Stalin saying 'you' who this morning appeared on no 33 of the images. I've noticed that quite often he appears under no 28 as well.
If you're there this morning, streetphotobeing, I wish you a good day.
And just to add, I'm not sure whether I'll watch Newsnight tonight again. Ideally, I would like first some specific confirmation /via e-mail at least/ from the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ of them acknowledging my existence and my active participation on the media scene.

barrie (#42) Is KCL at all related to Forest Gump or Foredeckdave? The latter is one for MrTweedy.

if we are what we are because our genes make us that way, is expecting people to change through rebuke, just bullying? :-(

from mimpromptu to sympathisers
Having wished streetphotobeing a good day, I would like to extend the same to all those who sympathise with my pleas for freedom and respect

Hi,

what's all this about?









and

"It has become excruciatingly, painfully clear that "targeted force" is the "only option" to get John Bolton to stop projecting his own violent tendencies onto the world stage."

from

SIMPER-THIGHS? (#45)

Good grief blogdog - now she is ADVERTISING on here! That looks like a trading name to me. I bet there is no film in her camera . . .

JJ! Say something stern (no pun intended).

#47 from mimpromptu
No, Mr Singleton, there is no film in my camera as it is digital although my 'advertisement' site is full of images made by cameras which did have films in them, especially the ones taken at the beginning of the 20th century.
I'm sure you know, Mr Singleton, that what I'm looking for is the truth and justice. Why are you still pretending?
The reason I'm using one name everywhere is for the sake of transparency. Rather than putting me down, threatening me and the like, jj & co, in my books, should put his arms up, give in and give up his ridiculous hide-and-seek game that's proving so damaging not only to myself but also to many others. I'm not in the least scared of him or want to have anything to do with him or his 'friends'.

from mimpromptu
re: race equality and my own awakening through support received from a few very fine 'cerebral celebrities' who have made their name in the world through their own writing or working as journalists.
It's only now that I'm beginning to be much more attentive to words, be it in books or in songs. Have just listened to one of my very favourite singers, Nina Simone, and specifically the song 'Don't let me be misunderstood'. It is the first time I have actually listened to this particular song and what a song it is! Just before she died I wanted to write to her to tell her how much her songs meant to me but alas, at the time, I didn't know how to go about things in this respect and wasn't sure how to express myself, anyway.

barrie (#47) "JJ! Say something stern (no pun intended)."

That seems to get her rather excited. She appears to be largely an intensional being. To such entities, truth is anathema

#47
Mr Singleton
I wonder why jj says what he says at #50? Can he see me or feel me, or something? If so, who's authorised it? In fact, I do not feel at all excited at the moment, though am thoroughly loving listening to Nina Simone's songs.
I suppose I shouldn't really respond to anything that's to do with jj as I think it is in fact the other way round with him, by drawing attention to himself, getting off on it, but on balance I think that the more he talks the more he gets himself and 'friends' into an ever deeper hole.

bubblegumTriffid (#46) I liked this bit off the first link:

"Update On Fox's Journal Editorial Report this weekend, Bolton claimed Iran's missiles "pose a threat" to the U.S. mainland. Seeming to recognize that Iran's missiles do not have the capability to come anywhere near the United States, Bolton backtracked, saying Iran would put the missiles on steam ships and "sail" them "up the East or the West Coast" to put them in range."

Prisoners and Criminal Proceedings (Scotland) Act 1993

3.
Power to release prisoners on compassionate grounds.
—
(1) The Secretary of State may at any time, if satisfied that there are compassionate grounds justifying the release of a person serving a sentence of imprisonment, release him on licence.
(2) Before so releasing any long-term prisoner or any life prisoner, the Secretary of State shall consult the Parole Board unless the circumstances are such as to render consultation impracticable.
(3) The release of a person under subsection (1) above shall not constitute release for the purpose of a supervised release order.

What did the parole board advise ?

#50 from mimpromptu
Are you happy, moustache wearing jj, david, continuing to reduce me to a 'naked', peeing and pooing female surrounded by spiders while bathing? That speaks miles, doesn't it?

Thank you JJ for 52

perhaps these steam ships the Iranians would sail up the West or East coast would be....nuclear powered?...

Perhaps its not the 'enemy' whoever they are, or wherever, that we need to fear most, its our leaders? pity that they are not nuclear powered in some way, many seeming to have heaps of rhetoric, full of big talk and threats, hot air, steam, but not so much light sometimes?

best wishes

B SINGLETON: AGENT PROVOCATEUR AND ALL ROUND BAD EGG (Madame Mim - various)

Oh Mim. You are like a trail of creeper hanging over the path along which I am idly walking. Without much thought I tweak - I tug - I might even put a knot in you; but it has absolutely NO RELEVANCE to anything of moment. (If Newnsnight came up with more engaging subjects, I would not be wandering but ranting and tirading!)

Some might say I should have better things to do with my time, but I have done with long hours and 7-day weeks. Now THEY really WERE pointless! Daily I wander in here, read what is written, and either take a view or just aggravate. (:o)

Now, as for JJ, what can I say? We are not friends nor even in collusion. I think we might well be adversaries, on occasion. But I venture to suggest that what JJ and I have in common is a love of cerebral challenge and a degree of mutual respect. I go so far as to suggest JJ and I have a common detestation of HUMBUG.

It is near-impossible to eradicate the indoctrination of our culture (particularly in our formative years). You will have seen portrayed in films the 'violent struggle' required against 'programming'; this can make the 'escapee' from such seem OTT but does not invalidate their brand of truth

You seem to have a degree of inner turmoil? Who knows, perhaps it is a fight between programming and reality in yourself, coming to a crisis.
Whatever - I wish you well and a clear mind.

WHAT'S TO BE DONE?

bubblegumTriffid (#55) We appear to have to endure ever more peculiar views and assertions from people . There's a long history to it too.

like the others before me....no more Bolton please, he does damage to our BP

Just wondered why my comment (14) is still being moderated after two days? I can't imagine what I said that could cause offence to anyone. Surely Bolton can't be so sensitive to the well mannered remarks I made after the drivel he delivers when he turns up with such monotonous regularity on Newsnight? Any chance that you might let my comment through - or at least send me the explanatory email? Thanks.