成人论坛

#10

Streetphotobeing

You're absolutely right, the Whitehouse are on my flickr account with one other but they don't seem to update their photostream very often for some reason. Maybe it's too close for comfort or something like that.

What the Whitehouse are doing is informative but also light and imaginative. There's no preaching involved nor signs of any intention of using brute force or anything like that.

It's a kind of real exchange if you want, unlike the total imbalance of communication on the part of some of the Newsnight bloggers who keep insisting on: 'do as I say, or else'. You surely realise by now what I think about the latter.

mim

Looks like it's that time for a defining moment as the hand of history etc. But now is not the time for soundbites.

The bizarre thing is it is all unnecessary. The Government were given all the solutions to climate change in 2001. This would have put 拢50 billion a year in to the UK economy.


from 2006 all factually correct, no problems on that score from the Government.

Unfortunately egos have got in the way and lots of people who 'try hard' but without a great deal of natural ability are having a go. Bless.

john lewis model is now labours big idea?

i welcome that given it was something on the boards over a year ago.

mim- do you have more than one id on the blog?

LOSING SIGHT AS WELL AS REASON

We should not lose sight of the blatant act that was Guantanamo. We hear so much about the 'Rule of Law' being at its glorious best in democracies, yet America set up that containment facility 'elsewhere' and declared it 'outside everything' to avoid all obligation to humanity.
AND WE NOT ONLY LET IT HAPPEN BUT, APPARENTLY, JOINED IN THE GAME.

When we bring our democracy and Rule of Law to Afghanistan, will such 'evil-doing' be in the manual?

Will the Illinois prison be designated Cuban territory (like an embassy) or equivalent, such that US Law will not apply? Are WMD inspectors found 'dead in the woods'?

#3 you ahould know by now, januty, that I do not hide behid anybody else, unlike a few of the Newsnight bloggers and I do not suffer from a split personality. There is only ONE me though I am able to express myself in different tonal modalities, both when dancing or writing, for example. One moment I can be all dramatic and the next hopping around, etc. Once finished I feel perfect balance and can easily move to whatever I feel like doing or need to do, including the most boring of tasks.

I suppose I'm lucky to have been born like that, altough it's taken me about 54 years to achieve it, finally, largely because of real support and appreciation I have felt coming my way in the last few years or so, among whom there are a few so-called celebs from high places. So there?

Happy with my answer?

P.S. I shall tackle one particular celebrity in a few moments in a further response to Streetphotobeing.

#10 continuation

Streetphotobeing

You know full well how much I appreciate and like Jeremy Paxman. Most people know by now, including the World Leaders. It couldn't be more obvious.

However, the reason I appreciate him so much is not because he is a celebrity which in some ways he is and in others not, at least not in the sense that Simon Cowell is, for example. I can't speak for Jeremy but I doubt it very much whether he would like to be like Simon which probably doesn't mean he would dismiss Simon altogether, etc.

After attending the Westminster Coroner's Court I realised that I was very close to the Cardinal Hume Centre which helps desperate young people get back on their feet and of which he is one of the patrons. I spoke to a few people both in the centre and in their charity shop and they all said they knew Jeremy.

Now, do you ever hear him boasting about it? Or of any of other charitable work that he's probably engaged in?

Another reason I appreciate Jeremy is his books from which I have learned an enormous amout, like for example how this country is run, about the workings of Parliament, about European monarchies, the pleasures of fishing, and then the extraordinary heritage that the Victorians have left behind, to name but a few. And I like the way he writes as well. His writing is never boring and his book about the English ended up on the school curriculum.

So, for me it is not the question of worshipping Jeremy but appreciating him as a journalist, writer and a person.

mim

Copenhagen: If the climate change believers are right then idealistic, unrealistic, big sweep solutions will deliver nothing - just as happened at Kyoto.

No wonder why there is so much scepticism about the science when the suspicion is that this is a Trojan horse to pass left wing measures without the consent of the People of western democracies.

Nos 11 & 6

That's a together post mim, mine wasn't really aimed at yourself more the pay to enter competitions and reviews for young talent - singing, dancing and others.

Thanks for that reply Rodger, Looks like we will be going back to the horse and cart. I'm wondering, in your view, whats the best we have at the moment to develop in terms of transport ?

KennethM #7

When are all the idiots out there going to realize that Copenhagen is a Corporate Nazi Trojan horse on the way towards world government by corporate dictatorship. Its got nothing to do with traditional left or right wing politics, its just a convenient excuse to introduce a system with all the worst human rights aspects of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia combined. The Corporate Nazi ideology politicians like Gordon Brown and Obama are enslaved to is an exact mirror image of the worst possible combination of both German Nazi and communism as practiced by Stalin. They attempt to portray that they are up for controlling the banks and their Corporate Multinational Cartel but in reality its all hot air. Just rhetoric in order to keep the lefties ( as you call them ) on side, when in actual fact our basic freedoms are being sold out wholesale to multinational corporations.

#9 Brossen

remember this?

iraq inquiry

yesterday the generals said 'iraq nation building was never 'do-able' no matter what plan or resources.

along with the existence of a functioning underground iraqi govt waiting to take over as soon as they were liberated.

also that if the psy-ops on the iraqi army had been better some of the iraqi military units may have stayed together.

Following on from your report on the defence budget; given there are urgent short to medium term requirements (Afghanistan), and that the nature of threat to western security has significantly changed since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the case for Trident is looking increasingly threadbare.

Hope people just saw what I saw.

The UK and the US appear not to be able to get it together on strategy in Afghanistan. Helicopters the UK can't get 20 there for 3 years. (Good job the same people weren't in charge of getting Spitfires in 1940)

But Obama says he's starting withdraw the year before the UK get the helicopters.

These are the same teams who this week think they can work out how to run a planet.

Looks like Scotland isn't getting any climate change stuff.

Nice of Ainsworth to be paying for everything. "My money, my troops my helicopters"-takes the burden off the rest of us.

Roger #10

Racked my brains for over an hour and I can't remember ever seeing said film, its not really my scene anyway ( hate games ) but it just goes to show that the Corporate Nazi concept has been out there gestating for over 30 years. As far as I can recall it probably arrived in the UK when Dennis Healy took out the IMF loan, Thatcher got in in 1979 as a possible change of direction and to give here credit even she eventually saw through its promises which is why the Tories ditched her for empty headed Major. Blair perfected the plan as far as he dare go without splitting the Labour party but had to ditch the road fuel tax escalator due to the farmers / haulage protests. Most alleged left wing politicians have been happy to collude with the overall plan due to the tax revenue they got to spend on pet projects during the good years. Result the true sustainable British economy damaged almost beyond repair, a carbon trading deal at Copenhagen could be the last nail in the coffin.

Brossen99.

Thanks for link.

The leader of the Green Party Caroline Lucas was to debate on the 成人论坛 about climate change, she pulled out at the last minute when she found she was to debate with Lord Monkton, telling the 成人论坛 rep, "I can't do this, he would win the debate". The 成人论坛 rep then phoned Monkton and told him the debate is off. He naturally asked why?. The rep quoted C.Lucas's reasons for not wanting to debate with him.:(

The Lady in the clip @15 is represensitive of what you find in the offices of the 成人论坛..so I'm told of Manchester Oxford Rd. London is probably even worse.

#12
mistress76uk

You're absolutely right about anybody and everybody being able to sign up to that flickr accout which doesn't mean, however, that the Whitehouse does not communicate with me. We have to take it into account, however, that not everything is to do with just me.

I'm not a megalomaniac and do not believe that I am the most important person in the world. Far from it. I do know, however, that what I talk about and what I'm about is being taken note of and not just by the Whitehouse.

#8
Streetphtotobeing

I appreciate the fact that your post was not aimed at me as I do not have a celebrity cult problem in any way whatsoever.

I just wanted to explain why I like what Jeremy Paxman is about as he has been quite often accused of 'playing' a celebrity, including, I remember, by Ecolizzy. Whether she has changed her views now I'm not sure but have an impression that she may have by now.

If somebody 'makes it' in the world in the sense that they become very well known, like famous actors/acresses, or writers or indeed journalists, is because their work has a great impact on the public imagination or intellect or soul, or whatever.

But then celebrities do differ. Some are only known or even adored only in their respective countries while others achieve fame on the global scale which is absolutely fine but as far as I am concerned I tend to care only for those who have not lost their basic humanity and love towards their fellow folk, etc.

mim

THE UK LABOUR SAYS IT'S 'GOOD POLICY' FOR THE COUNTRY TO PLAN TO BORROW HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF POUNDS ANNUALLY OVER THE NEXT 7-10 YEARS IN ORDER TO AVOID MAKING CUTS TO EDUCATION & HEALTH PROGRAMMES- WHY IS THE SAME PRINCIPLE NOT APPLICABLE TO DEFENCE RELATED EXPENDITURES & PROGRAMMES??

The UK govt is publicly projecting the country needing to borrow 100's of billions of pounds annually over the next 7-10 years in order to, in effect, finance education and health programmes... (during almost every 'national budget related' press conference' and in almost every national budget related news release wherein Minister(s)& bureaucrats attempt to 'justify' the govt borrowing plans for 2009-2017, the Labour govt simultaneously asserts that there won't be any cuts in education or health over the next 7-10 years)...

At the same time, UK govt & its spokespersons claim that Defence and the Armed Forces' needs are well understood by Labour and are parts of their responsibilities that are taken very seriously and being given high priorities in budget planning and national finances' allocations...

Then- without a word to explain the blatant contradictions between their rhetoric and actions- rather than increasing Defence funding or at least maintaining present Defence funding and forces' capabilities- the Labour govt accelerates their previous 10-year Labour policy-led trend of emaciating the UK's Armed Forces, and in particular, the Royal Navy...

Is this a govt that knows how to run a country with a pivotal, leading role on and membership of the world's most powerful and influential economic, political, legal and military bodies??

_________________
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada,

Perhaps this article amply proves David Cameron's Corporate Nazi ideology credentials as far as using the environment as an excuse to provide a welfare state for the stock market parasites. Households to be government backed lent up to 6,500 quid for alleged energy efficiency measures on their home and will then pay back the money through their energy bills. I have seen reports where people have insulated their homes to the latest standards only to find that their house feels no warmer and the energy bills do not go down as promised. Like Labour are saying, its just another green investment scam, furthermore, cavity wall insulation can cause damp and rot your floorboards leaving your house unfit for habitation.

Now that my Christmas cards are done
I can now concentrate on who's claiming they've won
For me there is only one winner
Who won a long time ago a dinner.

The rest is just crap and pretence
The mad 'scientist's' mad 'science'
I hope he gets locked up one day
He needs to be removed away.

That's where my hope lies with the World Leaders
To remove him and his dribblers.

mim

The whole thing is of course criminal
The mad experiment hormonal.
I've never signed an agreement
And I am no longer eighteen.

Watched the 成人论坛 report from the police side re taking photos in public of buildings. There are two aspects to this from the perspective of a professional architectural photographer and their business - being stopped by the police and being stopped by security of a private company who own the land where you wish to photograph. Now its the time taken to get permission to take the photograph/s that affects your business from the photographers perspective . This needs looking at. I remember the shot where I lost all enthusiasm to continue. I was set up with my tripod and step ladders waiting for some people clear and the light to be right thinking of all the nonsense - three weeks in total to take a photograph of an art gallery - letters, phone calls - people on holiday, out of the office. And that was that I just decided I had had enough and never took another commissioned architectural photograph again. That came after day in day out of being stopped and walking around with, at one time five letters stating who I was and that I actually was a photographer.

Have to say the police were usually very good with realising what the score was, you just have to behave in a professional way and once they have checked things out you can take your photo - usually there and then (IMPORTANT) but sometimes not, while private companies and their security messed me about no end.

Barrie

Has Monbiot been reading your blogs?

2nd paragraph



Celtic Lion

why does susan keep pumping the 'rich country poor country' narrative of maurice strong?

its a bogus way to look at countries. the uk is not rich.

eco tourists -nice one gavin.

copenhagen is a shambles because it as been exposed as a sham and serious people do not deceived by the gaia new age religion mythologising any more.

Israel demands Britain change law on war crimes



was it not a bit chicken of NN not to point out she was on her way to speak to the JNF whose patrons are Gordon, Tony and Cameron?

also let us not forget that the uk and bbc online in particular is a stated target for the Israeli Internet warfare Team. hardly the actions of a 'friend and strategic partner' as milliband calls them? clearly they don't think the same of the uk?

Spymaster sees Israel as world cyberwar leader



war crimes law is there for a reason. if the cap fits it doesn't mean its a bad law. there are serious problems over there.

Israeli rabbi slams mosque arson, invokes Holocaust

maurice strong -architect of kyoto and making money out of carbon trading is a big fan of China- which just happens to be the biggest beneficery of carbon trading.

funny now these loops go around isn't it?

when will NN get an interview ?

CLOSE - DOES HE SMOKE CIGARS? (#24)

"Has Monbiot been reading your blogs?"

Nice one Celtic! I dunno, but YOU are clearly reading Monbiot. Beware, you will end up wearing funny glasses and end up with tiny eyes, looking like a denizen of Bedrock!

Cheers.

ONLY THE FOUR HORSEMEN - BUSINESS AS USUAL

Some decades ago I coined the phrase: The Cavalry never comes."

We seem to be emerging into the daylight of exposed chicanery - a conspiracy is no longer a conspiracy when it is visible policy.

Do I hear the sound of hooves? Oh bum - it is probably only The Four Horsemen'. (:o)

23streetphotobeing

"Have to say the police were usually very good with realising what the score was, you just have to behave in a professional way..."

As a past press/commercial photographer, I blogged as you did, about this further loss of freedom (to take piccies) and also saw the recent report about the suspected terrorists who have since been deported. To me, it is about the police using discrimination in stop and search. From the various TV docs on customs work in several countries, it's clear that Customs Officers and UK Border Agency staff develop a sixth sense (suspicion) for spotting suspects, and sometimes get it wrong. Yet the police are often criticised for discrimination in their stop and search activities.

The government claims that a war in a distant land is necessary to keep UK secure; it must also give more support to Home Security by allowing police scope in stop and search on the streets of UK. If this involves police using discrimination (between suspicious individuals and professional citizens)so be it, and we should be grateful that another potential terrorist attack in London was prevented by their diligence. They should not be hamstrung by the growing obsession with Political Correctness, Human Rights, Equality and Innocent until Proved Guilty protests. Private security staff are a different case, the selection and training of many having been found wanting.

STRATEGIC DEFENCE REVIEW OUGHT TO BE FOREIGN-POLICY-LED, NOT BUDGET-POLICY-DRIVEN!!

The recent history of bungled major MoD/Royal Navy acquisition programmes that were budget-policy-driven provide ample evidence why the Strategic Defence Review ought to instead be foreign-policy-led...

The Type-45 Destroyer programme provides a good example:

Why shouldn't the number one 'policy-led' priority of the Type-45 build programme be the 'full and qualitative fitting out' of each of these urgently needed Destroyers upon completion of construction'??

This, rather than the in-place-for-over-8-years utterly absurd situation:

The number one 'budget-policy-driven' priority for Type-45's- 'don't fit these ships out upon completion of construction so that they are capable of meeting known and to be expected types of 21st century threats/duties and instead leave brand new Type-45's as dangerously under-armed, 25 percent equipped warships- barely "shells with (comparitively) sumptuous crew quarters and amenities"-

... 'and in order to minimize the likelihood of the news media and voting public noticing and making a fuss- put in place a 'policy-led' news media and voting public misinformation programme to counter the facts of Type-45's extensive incompleteness and highly dangerous under-equipping & under-arming...'

The majority of Type-45's vital defensive, communications and offensive equipment & armaments are not being fitted at build-completion and/or sub par/tenth rate and used equipment & armaments are being fitted at build-completion...

This has been (inadequate-Labour-govt-funding-driven) MoD policy for over 8 years- policy astonishingly emptily promoted and manipulatively defended by MoD representatives....

A cogent reference can be found in the January 15-2001 testimony of:

- Sir Robert Walmsley, Chief of Defence Procurement and Chief Executive of the Defence Procurement Agency and

- Vice Admiral Sir Jeremy Blackham, the Deputy Chief of Defence Staff, Equipment Capability to the House of Commons' Select Committee on Public Accounts:



Testimony from the above linked-to Parliamentary committee minutes shows that there were indeed "funding-policy-led" plans within the MoD to commission new Type-45 Destroyers without any sonar fitted (in addition to their many other egregious weapons deficiencies & flaws)...

Testimony also shows how dangerously outmoded the STILL IN SERVICE TODAY Sea Dart anti airborne threat system was in 2001...

Reasonable persons would expect that members of the MoD that were aware of hugely serious and highly dangerous equipment capability shortfalls in to-be-built warships would have been testifying loudly for immediate rectification of the govt-funding-driven policies that were driving this INEXCUSABLE situation- not attempting to defend these policies- by trying to double talk committee members and avoid admitting how dangerous the equipment capability shortfalls in the to-be-built Type-45's (and existing in-service RN vessels) were...

The costs of fitting:

1) Phalanx CLose In Weapons System (vital for ship self-defence against airborne threats that are missed by the Type-45's main 'PAAMS' missile system, or when it runs out of missiles);

2) a technologically competitive, proper sonar set;

3) torpedo tubes & related Combat Management System (CMS) (vital for situations when a sub surface threat is known to be in theatre and there are no helicopter(s) nearby to drop torpedos);

4) communications, handling & landing equipment required for the Merlin (EH-101) helicopter (in place of the vastly inferior 'Lynx');

5) a versatile missile launch system- such as the 'sylver A70' or the 'Lockheed MK 41 Strike VLS'- in place of the (presently planned/being installed) grievously limited in capabilities, absurdly short 'sylver A50'; and

6)Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) sensors & equipment* (nessessary for allied warships & other assets to share theatre data- and cohesively take actions and/or initiate defensive maneuvers against threats/targets...)

... to individual Type-45's would not outweigh the enormous- AND IMMEASURABLY LONG TERM- damages being wrought upon the country's international political, 'industry-competence' and military-capabilities reputations by the MoD continuing the Labour-govt-dictated Type-45 build programme idiocy, IE these urgently required warships being barely 25 percent equipped/fitted out for basic 21st century services and duties upon their commissioning and putting into service...

The purchase and installation costs of the above equipment- if added to current Type-45 construction and fitting out costs- still totals less than the build costs of other nations' comparable 'peer' warships, such as the most recent versions of the US's Burke class Destroyers...

(about 2.2 billion US dollars...)

Costs of Type-45's as they are currently being built- dangerously under-armed and under equipped- are about 1.7 billion US dollars (or less depending on the exchange rate)...
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* POSSIBLY THE MOST EGREGIOUSLY DANGEROUS AND SHORT SIGHTED LABOUR GOVT COST-CUTTING STRATEGY: TYPE-45'S ARE NOT BEING FITTED WITH 'COOPERATIVE ENGAGEMENT CAPABILITY' (CEC)



... rendering these urgently required warships close to useless in any conflict involving a foe possessing moderately up-to-date weapons...

CEC is vital for warships to share theatre data- especially important when threats such as supersonic sea skimming anti ship cruise missiles (ASCM's) and aircraft- may be approaching from 'over the horizon' (farther out than 20 miles) flying low, and thus not detectable by a Type-45 until 'no longer over the horizon' (less than 20 miles out) and less than 1 minute away...

If Type-45's can not detect- and take actions to deal with- airborne threats until they are closer than 20-miles out, their reaction time is very dangerously limited and ships in their squadron that are farther away than 4 or 5 miles (in the direction of the incoming threat) are, in effect, sitting ducks to foes with a modicum of common sense and only moderately up-to-date weaponry...

It would be an unheard of and suicidal strategy for RN squadrons involved in a conflict situation to have all of the squadron's vessels remaining within 4 miles of each other...

Considering that the advertised purpose of Type-45's is to protect other RN vessels from airborne attack- without CEC this task becomes an absurd assignment...
----------------------

Likely due to lack of R & D funding and lack of a properly funded test-target programme, the Type-45's main 'PAAMS' missile system doesn't work yet:

1)鈥淩oyal Navy destroyers at sea with faulty weapons systems鈥�, December 07-2009:



2)鈥淗MS Whoops! It's Britain's new 拢1bn super-ship, with iPod stations and luxury quarters. One problem... the state-of-the-art missiles don't work鈥�, December 04-2009:



3)鈥淣avy's 拢1bn+ destroyers set to remain unarmed for years鈥�, December 02-2009:



4)"Sea Viper Fails To Strike", December 02-2009:



quote: "... The UK Defense Ministry and industry are trying to identify the cause of the failure of what was planned to be the last qualification test firing of the Royal Navy鈥檚 Sea Viper air defense missile system..."

So why aren't the Type-45's rolling off of the assembly line being fitted with the weapons, communications, defensive and related equipment required to function as 'multi-mission/multi-role' Destroyers- as was the MoD's stated Type-45 project objective in 2002 and after main gate approval??

If cost is the answer from the MoD/govt, then:

1)"is it reasonably sound and responsible logic for the govt to be directing and/or sanctioning the building and putting into service of what are in reality only partially built warships??"

2)"Would the army accept land fighting vehicles that- although fitted with engines and wheels upon delivery to the Army- were to have their guns and armour fitted at a later- NOT SPECIFIED- date??"

3)"What would such a practice do to army service personnel morale, the country's reputation world-wide and its abilities to deter potential aggressors/defend itself in the future??"

What 'long term good' does the Labour govt intend to achieve with the "1/4 equipping" of urgently needed warships that are integral to the country's international profile as well as its future defence and world roles??

Considering the UK's annual budget deficit situation as it is currently and is projected to be in the coming 10-15 years- surely some dispassionate, depoliticized consideration ought to be being given by MP's/prospective MP's, political party members and by whatever party forms govt to weighing the comparative advantages of paying for the competent fitting out of Type-45's- and for the construction of sufficient numbers of these ships, IE: 12 to 14 rather than only 6... against the long term disadvantages for the UK of not doing this...

The UK is needed on the world stage in its customary top table role...

If the UK's military is allowed to be degenerated into insignificance, its abilities to continue retaining lead positions on the world's most powerful and influential political, economic, legal and military bodies will be severely jeopardized...

It's unarguable that the the upcoming Strategic Defence Review ought to be 'policy-led'...

But such policies ought to be predicated upon what is in the nation's best interests globally as well as long term constructive objectives...

This instead of 'willfully blind to the realities of the wider-world, budget-driven policies' that invite disaster and international ridicule as is the case with the current Type-45 build programme...



___________________
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada

STRATEGIC DEFENCE REVIEW OUGHT TO BE FOREIGN-POLICY-LED, NOT BUDGET-POLICY-DRIVEN!!

PART 2:

Now that the Labour govt has allowed the French to sell us the -VERY CHEAP- incapable and not at all versatile sylver A50 missile launchers for the new Type-45 Destroyers, the launcher's manufacturer- 75% state-owned DCNS- has quickly developed a new launcher, the sylver A70 which is almost 50% longer than the sylver A50 and- in addition to being able to be armed with Aster 15 and Aster 30 AAW missiles- can accommodate Land attack cruise missiles such as the Storm Shadow and other munitions...

DCNS reports on its web site that (instead of sylver A50's) Sylver-A70 missile Launchers are to be fitted to France's under construction ('France/Italy' developed*) Horizon class and FREMM class Frigates...

Why doesn't the UK Labour govt fund the development of 'UK-designed' missile launchers for the Type-45's that are currently under construction (and for export purposes) so that these Type-45's could be armed with more than just Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles?? IE: enabling these warships to be armed with Tomahawk Land-attack cruise missiles and similar munitions??

Or at the least, why doesn't the UK govt take steps to modify current contracts with France's DCNS to fit the under construction Type-45's with sylver A50's and modify the contracts so that these vessels are fitted with sylver A70's??









-------------------
-------------------

Compared to the UK's Type-45 Destroyers (as presently planned)- the nearly 2 dozen Horizon* and FREMM* frigates that are committed to be constructed by France and Italy between today and 2022 will have vastly superior offensive and defensive capabilities in terms of Horizons' and FREMMs' sylver A70 missile launchers' capacities to be armed with various types of missiles and munitions (in addition to Aster 15's and Aster 30's)... making the UK potentially look like suckers for buying the 'puny length' sylver A50' missile launcher for its Type-45's- since sylver A50's can only accomodate Aster 15's and Aster 30 missiles, which in turn can carry out only one role- anti airborne threat defence...

--------------------
--------------------
* The Horizon and FREMM classes of Frigates are, in large part, a result of the failed UK/France/Italy 'Horizon' programme of the 1990's... and as consequence contain a great deal of UK intellectual and other property...

The same can be said to a lesser degree in the reverse- Type-45's contain and are the result of some intellectual and other properties of France and Italy companies....

A govt and its MP's that doesn't/don't have the principles and competencies required to make sure that the budgets that they approve for construction of urgently needed warships includes funding for these vessels' basic weapons, defence and communications systems is more irrefutable evidence of unsuitability for elected office...


___________________
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada

@ brossen - no 20.

that's a whole new level of climate denial...i can half see why people might find it hard to see how an invisble gas in the atmosphere is going to trap heat in our climate system, but claiming you can insulate a house and not see it get warmer is really going some. What are you going to claim next "I'm just as warm when I don't wear clothes - thermodynamics is a nazi plot made up by jumper knitters. And duvets...they are an eveil con too"