成人论坛

Some time back Newsnight reported on the al Qaeda style Tora Bora caves on the Pakistan side in the North West Frontier.

It occurs to me that there should be a kind of Ho Chi Minh trail of these man made caves across the border and you never know one may be a training camp and hold bin Laden.

I don't know if cloud cover and so on prohibits X-ray and infra red satellite analysis of the ground but these people would also need water. I assume the area to be generally quite arid and if you have groups of thirty to a hundred men they will need quite a ration of water either natural or it has to be carried.

The reason I am thinking about this is Pakistan is tired of the CIA killing al Qaeda - and civilians - on their side of the border. The double/triple agent fiasco means the confidence in the intelligence must be damaged now.

But if you bug or blow up the bunkers where only militants are that's better. If Pakistan captures them and Afghanistan/US forces extradite "their" terrorists" that's better still.

As for the recent "buy them off" strategy I am dubious that that will work as some have changed sides so often that Channel 4 recently filmed Afghan police giving up their arms to al Qaeda after being "requested" to do so. Does bribery last for long.

But if it works I won't argue I suppose.

Meanwhile what is going on with the democratic forces of Pakistan. Do they really think they can negotiate with al Qaeda or leave them to fester in the tribal lands?

I hope at some point Paul Mason will comment on the finance "ring fencing" of risk and whether with CDS that is possible as the ratio of real to genuine money still means I presume a couple of traders could take out a bank or two and then take down the whole economy in a new "unique global economic phenomenon" that resembles a Wall St Crash.

Meanwhile I assume the demographics of who really gets hurt by this crash in the long run will be very stark and whilst I am concerned about my generation concerns over the young yet to see work are clearly a priority.

Countries seem to have come out of recession in roughly the same order they went in. We were last in, so it's not that surprising we are last out.

The headline that we are out of recession is somewhat misleading.

While the estimated increase in GDP is estimated at + 0.1% the increase in the public sector is listed as + 0.2%. As the public sector amounts to roughly 50% of our economy the implication is that the private sector, ie the productive sector has actually not increased, staying exactly level, with no growth at all.

I hope this point will be brought out, unlike last week, when an actual reduction of people in employment was presented as a reduction in unemployment, in fact a statistical creation achieved by disqualifying a number of unemployed from the claimant figure.

If the Labour Party has nearly run out of the last bit of road before the election and many of their own core supporters probably want to see change - as opposed to spin about listening and then not acting on what they listened to - then the Labour core vote may collapse as the election approaches.

It seems wobbly at the moment but a Brownite-Blairite flair up combined with a leadership challenge and perhaps a pre-election scandal would be quite realistic. I assume that's why McBride is barely mentioned these days.

If the Lib Dems replace Labour as one of the big two then I am sure that those like Croquet Prescott, the champion of the working man - and the banks, will suddenly see the merits of electoral and constitutional reform and fair voting.

Then perhaps at last we will see the end of these giant media-intensified political pendulum swings that lead to these excesses and the corrupt practices expressed by the expenses scandal.

Only about three countries in the world rely on first past the post I believe and voter engagement is higher in those countries where they have PR as its fairer and each vote counts.

The old and very tired criticism of hung parliaments reflects the arrogance of the chattering and political classes as they evade the issue that that can only happen where the public have not been sufficiently won over by any particular argument.

Not toffs and not the working class but the whole of the British people.

The US freedom of information may mean that at some point in the future documents may emerge that refute the protestations of some of the Iraq War Inquiry witnesses like Blair.

But then I suppose they are not on oath and it will all be a different management by the time any such document emerges.

Rather than read the inevitable comments on immigration and race by those on the far right who are so ashamed of their genuine political beliefs that they never cite the party or philosophy they are persuaded to I will satisfy myself with pointing out that that actually tells you all you need to know.

The kind of "facts" that they cite, if they even bother with facts, are cyber-real only and never show up in courts to challenge the alleged "Jewish hegemony" or to show that there was no Holocaust (it was "made up") or that the Nuremburg trials of their hero's were unfair. Forget science.

This message is in response to: barriesingleton who wrote:
NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED

Muslimah, on a previous thread, made it plain the Quran required her not to 'revleal her 'adornments' (meaning 'charms' so to speak). I have now watched the Muslim lady from yesterday's Newsnight, and unless my trusty bloke-eyes have lost their ability to check out a pretty face (shame about the voice) she had enhanced (adorned?) her eyes with make-up.

Where does that leave the argument? Muslimah? A little help?

You are correct in your understanding on the meaning of covering adornments. This is why i said do not base your understanding upon muslims, or the media. Take your understanding from the sources (the Quran and the Sunnah, in the understanding of the pious predecessors as mentione in my first post). Hope that clears your confusion.
If you asked sincerely seeking for the truth than may the one who created you, sustains you, and controls your affairs, guide to it.

NOW THAT IS NEAT NEAT NEAT! (#8)

Almost a 'silent order' then. Just put a finger to the lips, and point to the texts.

I can only marvel at the simplicity of it's unassailability.

Bravo! (:o)

#7 from the previous page

Brightyangthing

It's brilliant the way you wrote about the validity of making a point and here's a ditty of how it did spurn me on. I hope you don't mind/?/

What is the point of making a point
And while doing so losing the plot?
Losing the plot may cost losing one鈥檚 job,
Even if the post cannot make the point,
What is the point of making a point
While those who obviously have lost their own plot
Still get away to scheme and complot?
Nevertheless, not all is lost
And it is worthwhile making a point
As it sinks in with those knowing what鈥檚 what
Let鈥檚 not give up making a point
About the plotters who鈥檝e lost their own plot!

mim

I dont know if i understood your response well. If you thought that i was 'silently order'ing the veiling of the face, then my post was misunderstood. Obviously in regards to the covering of the face, as mentioned before there are two opinions.
If one puts make-up on it is adorning, and an adornment. Not everyone chooses to put make-up on.
Also in regards to this, you can analyse the affects of hijaab in your in your statement:
'and unless my trusty bloke-eyes have lost their ability to check out a pretty face (shame about the voice) she had enhanced (adorned?) her eyes with make-up.'
The hijaab (that which meets the conditions) acts as a deterrent for a woman to be subjugated to these kind of incidents.
We are all human and are deficient in some feilds of knowledge, none of us are free from it, and we are prone to mistakes, and this is where sincere advising to each other comes to place as is the obligation to seek knowledge, as our objective to reach paradise through seeking the pleasure of Allah is one and the same.
And all praise and thanks belong to Allah.

#53 following Monday's programme

Brightyangthing

Quality over quantity may make a new ditty. But for the time being, I'll just make a few points prose wise.

I wasn't in anyway undermining mums choosing to stay at home to look after the children if they can afford it. But if they can't or choose not to because they feel that work helps them keep their sanity intact, then what? They obviously need to find other ways of making sure that the children are well looked after by another person or even a few as long as the kids do get quality time with them, etc

I do think, however, that it is important to have regular meals, even if only once a week, with them as well as talk and play with them as often as possible, circumstances permitting.

mim

iraq inquiry

all inquiries should be televised. then it will be hard to have a final report that buries things [or is suspected of having done].

if this was a court of law the uk tony would be guilty of war mongering and would get the british version of what chemical ali got [whose actions killed fewer people?]?

DID WE SELL ALI THE CHEMICALS? (#13)

I don't suppose Ali pretended he was whiter than white Jaunty.

On balance, it would probably be better to banish Tony, based on evidence so far given, rather than give him the perverse, masochistic, satisfaction of appearing before Chilcott, and being humiliated. He is, in the final analysis, a needy little boy whom we elevated to power that he could never hope to restrain. As Heinz Kiosk used to say: "We are all guilty."

AN APPROPRIATE USE FOR THE BURQA

Tonight florid Ken and flaccid Peter sat side-by-side, as the perfect embodiment of the PARTY CHARADE. A terrifying sight.

Two burqas could have saved our eyes. Make it so.

#15 Oh dear Barrie, I missed that encounter, luckily, I went to sleep. : )

What we need is a new Magna Carta! (i.e. Magan Carta Mk II?)...instead of compelling the 'King of the day' to respect the rule of law...we need to tie down our leaders and the banking mafia to the rule of law.

Anyone else listen to the top civil service lawyer's comments at the Iraq Inquiry today???...to summmarise...she resigned the day before the Iraq War started...as she advised Jack Straw that the war was illegal without the second UN ruling.....Jack Straw chose to ignore that advice. The civil service mandarins at the time said that was 'the first time that legal advice had been ignored on such an important issue'.

When Chilcot asked the lawyer "did the fact that Straw was a trained lawyer, perhaps, have an influence on his decision"

She simply replied "he's not trained in international law"...cue guffaws from the audience.

It's about time that political party manifesto's were made legal documents to which the 'criminal' political elite should be made accountable to...by law!!!

i don't know why tony gets paid big wonga for his speeches. given the iraq inquiry evidence if he said its a bright sunny day outside it would be wise to want a second opinion?

if you 'believe' its a sunny day but in reality it is raining is there no guilt for have a false belief and doing your best to convince everyone else of that false belief and saying you have 'no doubt' that the belief is true?

some christians do take the view there is no need to prove anything of the bible but that it is enough to 'believe'. is this not the same philosophy? the 'i believe it so it is true' arguments?

#12 addendum

BYT

I thought I ought to clarify a few points with regard to how children should or should not be brought up:

To be homest, I do not have any preconceived ideas about the issue. I wrote what I wrote based on my own experiences and from observations or conversations with friends.

My own story is complicated not only due to the fact that my parents' marriage collapsed in a most dramatic fashion but also by poverty that most Poles suffered after WWII. As my mum's childhood dream was to become a surgeon and most women simply had to work in order to provide basic nourishment and maintanance for the family she first had to work and study and so on and couldn't be with us all that much. I remember her friends or her sister picking me up first from the kindergarden for 1 to 3-year olds and then from the playground, which at the time, it must be said, were open, I think, to all kids.

I never ever held it against her for having planned her professional life the way she'd chosen and have always been extremely proud of her determination to follow her professional passion.

And I know of a family here in England whereby a mother felt she needed to work when her children were wtill very small. Those children grew up to be very fine people, loving and caring, having their own families and doing interesting things with their lives work wise with the Grandma now being able to help them along whenever needed.

As far as fathers are concerned, traditionally it has been pretty normal and accepted for them to pursue their careers and so the expectations with regard to bringing up their offspring hands on were much smaller.

I do think, however, that it is good that the awareness of how children need to feel the presence and love of both parents is being raised these days.

Now, is it better to have parents 'put up' at home but going out of their minds with frustration and therefore passing it on to their kids or a more fulfilled person who can then spend quality time with them?

mim

freemarketanarchy, we don't need any additional laws, as I have pointed out before on this blog the Geneva Conventions, incitement to commit murder and acts of Treason which exist in English Law have been violated as well as International crimes, there maybe other possible charges, such as under the Terrorism Act 2000 as the war can also be classed as an act of terrorism and it's planning which took place here is also illegal under English Law. But don't hold your breath, the Police protect these criminals and actively attempt through organizations such as ACPO to have our rights curtailed to protect them.

As for coming out of recession, it is only due to the government spending money which was printed out of thin air, like Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic, even Japan tried it and it did not work, oh and Standard & Poor have come out warning of a possible downgrade of Japan today. The Lemmings are racing toward the cliff and they aren't slowing down. There is an interesting piece by Karl Denninger called "Why Markets Have Technical Targets Near Zero" you can read it here-



The important quote is-

'The "over center" point where one becomes too deeply in the gravity well of the black hole at the center is almost impossible to determine in advance. Japan may have already crossed beyond it.

Once that point is reached it becomes quite literally impossible to prevent a full-on collapse of the monetary system involved.'

why has the bbc been underplaying the iraq inquiry today ?

todays evidence was revealing and informative and yet the bbc have chosen to avoid the detail of those revelations instead going on about end of recession.

anyway guardian has an interesting article at least as far as jack straw is concerned.

I don't profess to know all the rules that the statisticians use but it strikes me that for the UK to have achieved 0.1% growth we also now have even on the most conservative of estimates 2.9% inflation. Perhaps if you knock out what could be perceived as false economic growth ( inflation ) our economy actually shrunk 2.8% in the last quarter. Of course the stock market parasites are doing well on the back of quantative easing, but it would appear that the likes of Hedge Funds are soaking up most of any extra money which could be going into the real economy.

As your Salford report last night suggested there are still plenty of ten bob fat cats out there foolish enough to be willing to sign their financial life away on a poxy terraced house for 150k. The banks must be pretty foolish to allow anyone to do so, perhaps sowing the seeds of a new financial crisis in near future when many may loose their public sector job as a result of Tory spending cuts.

"Some time back Newsnight reported on the al Qaeda style Tora Bora caves on the Pakistan side in the North West Frontier."

its not a war against al qaeda or the taliban, its a war to secure a nations assets for our use.

the intent is to intervene in pakistan. we're just trying to create the conditions to which we can make it appear we had no other choice.

listen to brown, and the usa neo con war hawks .. iran and paskitan prevent the israel - india nexus that we're trying to create with a subjugated and benign people from whom we can steal resources to our hearts content..

Paxo...good interview/grilling!...but Darling responded well under pressure.

Ho hum....Darling seems to be one of the few realists in HMG at the mo...

I read that in Private Eye a while ago that he was a devout Trotsyist...in which case he is performing consistently with his puppet masters' wishes!!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

21

..why has the bbc been underplaying the iraq inquiry today ? ..

and not just today. it does seem odd. charity might make the claim they do not want to terrify people from speaking openly if they believe everything they say is to be screamed across the front page? hounded like Kelly was who had to go into hiding?

I am angry that the fact that our supposedly democratic government has killed at least tens of thousands of people in our name. Illegally....we really didn't need another enquiry to tell us so. But we have one and I cannot believe how lightly its proceedings are being treated by the 成人论坛.
There is nothing amusing about this and yet every 'highbrow' programme seems to find it a big joke that Blair et all blasted this war through despite protests and resignations and 2 million protesters turning out to let them know our opinion as a country.

Outstanding Jeremy tonight with Alistair Darling :o)
Also excellent reports by Paul & David,followed by the debate with Marin Sorell et al.

However, the best of the evening was Jeremy with Phillipe Sands QC(brilliant) and David Aaronovitch (always read his reports in The Times and have seen countless TV reports by him) on the Iraq Inquiry. As pointed out by Sands, there isn't a single lawyer in the country who would now state that the war in Iraq was legal. And just think - Tony Blair might be charged with "an act of aggression" and arrested in 50 countries worldwide. Perhaps a trip to Uzbekistan/Azerbaijan wouldn't be a good idea :p

Now I usually enjoy Paxman's interviews and studio debates, indeed admire his interviewing style. But I was extremely disappointed about the studio debate he held this evening regarding today's hearing into the Iraq War inquiry.

The input by the Foreign Office lawyers - at the time Wood and Elmshurst - seemed to be viewed by Paxman and his guests as almost unimportant and trivial. Paxman and guests had a good laugh about lawyers and how the law can be interpreted differently. True.

But here the inquiry was looking into the seriousness of advice, and decisions resulting from it, that could potentially - and unfortunately did - lead to a major conflict with the loss of many thousands of lives, this loss of life still continuing today.

That is not a laughing matter Jeremy.

Today's hearing possibly took us nearer to the heart of what was happening in the inner cabal of cabinet at the time than anything we have heard so far. Not politicians and PR gurus prevaricating for their own ends, but people with the serious business of advising whether our invasion of Iraq was actually legal or not.

And how did you and your studio guests treat this issue? As if it was a bit of university debating-room banter. I sincerely hope you haven't lost the plot Jeremy, because there are a lot of people out here who take this issue very seriously.

My moderated post #25 contained a link to 'The promised land: British Arrist Warrent For Zipee Lievni Threetens Tyes' in the huffpost was moderated out...bizzare!

WELL SAID (#29)

Aaronovitch seemed not to realise the import of his dismissive words.

Advisers advise and ministers decide - how often we hear that. It follows Goldsmith's caveated 'OK' should have been passed to the government, to be acted upon AS THEY SAW FIT. To be so cowardly as to force him into a false statement, smacks of Guantanamo. Ah - perhaps that counts as an insight?

On the 254th Anniversary of Amadeus Mozart鈥檚 Birthday

It鈥檚 already Wednesday
And A. Mozart鈥檚 birthday.
So let鈥檚 celebrate
The great man鈥檚 achievements!
The world鈥檚 still mourning the musician鈥檚 bereavement.
Imagine what else he could have composed
For us to listen to and experience his talent
Whether concertos or more pieces like 鈥楻equiem鈥�?

And here as a quick reference link is:



But please may I quote a passage that seems to summarise perfectly the composer?:

Mozart learned voraciously from others, and developed a brilliance and maturity of style that encompassed the light and graceful along with the dark and passionate鈥攖he whole informed by a vision of humanity "redeemed through art, forgiven, and reconciled with nature and the absolute." His influence on subsequent Western art music is profound. Beethoven wrote his own early compositions in the shadow of Mozart, of whom Joseph Haydn wrote that "posterity will not see such a talent again in 100 years.

I sometimes question myself whether
Apart from writing about the weather
And musing around hither and thither
As light as it seems to take off from the typewriter
I could actually write anything really dramatic
Even in the face of threats of imminent death
Shouting and screaming objecting the tactic
That seems to affect my physical health?!

mim

And what if my problems had something to do with a neighbour
Waiting to be awarded well for his labour?
He never seems to sleep, talks of some deals
And acts well bizarrely putting it squarely.
He is embittered by not being loved
With 2 marriages that on him collapsed.
He鈥檚 also embittered by some unfair treatment
When wanting to make a working commitment.
Some people think that deep down he is a gay
But he seems to prefer in his room to play
With his computer and 鈥榩ositioning鈥� game.
His first name is Mark but I won鈥檛 mention his surname.

mim

Whenever Jeremy Paxman asked Alistair Darling a question last night, Darling deflected it with "Every other country . . . " and Paxman let him get away with it. This was in response to questions about plans going forward not about how we got in this mess in the first place.

Paxman should have told Darling to forget about "Every other country . . . " as all we are concerned about is this one and brought him back to answer the question.

This was a missed opportunity for a "Michael Howard moment" as Darling was allowed to continually evade the questions using this tactic and Paxman let him get away with it.

#35 Yes I have to agree with you boutells, I thought Darling sidestepped every questions, the consumate politician! It's because newlabour only ever talk about the world view, so nothings their fault at home.

I heard Harperson on Radio 4 this morning doing exactly the same. They had done a lot to bring about equality etc. But this tells the truth...

Things are worse than they've ever been, but in labours head we're all equal now! It sounded exactly like communism, and look where that is now, oligarch anyone?

JUST A GUESS BUT, ISN'T THERE MORE THAN A LITTLE NARCISSUS IN JP?

I had the feeling that behind his 'medium affronted' mask, he was busy with other matters than those he is paid (disproportionately) for.

Nick Robinson was doing a number on boarded-up shops, last night. One such, presented a blank exterior with 'DO IT YOURSELF' still visible.

That could be Paxo.

Presumably judges work against the GBP these days not with us and for us?



Another looney ruling by the elitists in this country

#38

ecolizzy

I've just done a tour of The High Court.

It has really been designed with great taste combining modern and classical styles.

mim

Iraq Inquiry [or the Apocalypse Now boat trip]

the boat moves further up the river and as the lawyers talk we are definitely into 'Cambodia'. By leaving the judgement for war till the last minute there was no way a negative could come without handing a 'victory' to Saddam.

if you get a dog you spend the next 15 years picking up hot steaming dog poo. If you get Tony as PM it seems a similar thing happens?

#39. correction

I should have said The Supreme Court.

mim

'Holocaust and genocide survivors will join in a national commemoration event at the Guildhall in London later.

The Archbishop of Canterbury urged people to listen to the survivors' stories but also remember their legacy.

He also warned against "attitudes in ourselves and in others which were the harbingers of the Holocaust"'
-------

Sadly the people like the BNP who should be listening are instead babbling their insane slogans on the "Jewish hegemony" and trying to assert there was no Holocaust.

Yet the alleged war criminal Djemjanjuk does not cite any of their "evidence" in court and Irving lost his trial in Austria.

What nasty and psychologically afflicted people they are.

DIVINING THE MEANING OF 1441 (#40)

If I heard him correctly, Goldsmith actually declared that 1441 has (hence, by inference - MUST have) a meaning, but that it has to be DIVINED. It is, perhaps, poignant to note that, as I recently posted, the speeches of Tony Blair (the Dark Lord at the centre of this Tolkienesque Epic) though clearly divine by association, HAD NO MEANING. And Blair - lest we forget - was ANOTHER DAMNABLE LAWYER.

Not sure I'm too encouraged about the sanctity of 'the law' if the head honcho can change his mind on what's legal, pretty much along with his next set of undies. Especially if it's a war.

Might try that.

Policeman (beamed holographically from call centre in Mumbai): 'Stop! In the name of the law!'

Miscreant (alleged): Are you sure? It's almost midnight, who knows what tomorrow may bring?

Recovery ?

I believe that the reason for the slow recovery is the same reason we were one of the first into the recession. The people wanted to maintain their standard of living , while government forced down their wages. People wanted a home , they had to borrow inflated sums to buy one. The people tried to earn more , but the government taxed them harder. The people needed find even more money to sustain their standard of living , so they borrowed yet more , secured on anything they had.

The more money the state takes away from it citizens (directly or indirectly), the less money they will have to spend and save with, thus they will be forced to depend more and more on the state, which then will require yet more taxes to pay for it, and so on until it all goes T-up.

Lessons
Any future government needs to ensure that the cost of living stays down and government lives within it's means, only then will our country become competitive enough to trade our way out of this private and public debt servitude , and most importantly enable a prosperous future for our country and it's citizens.

THE GOLD STANDARD OF LOGIC (#45)

Well spotted mademoiselle. I have it on good authority, from sources close to insanity, that Darling uses 'Logic Mapping' of the same sort used by Goldsmith to get from A to Z without passing through any other letter of the alphabet. It is also called Tantric Cobblers.

The incompetence of current denizens of Westminster is being revealed with biblical pyrotechnics. The certainty that we will replace them with others, not one iota different, is deeply depressing.

SPOIL PARTY GAMES

DESPERATE (mad?) MEN

I have just received a personal invitation to The Scottish Conservative party Conference.

I checked the venue.

They could hold that one in my local village hall and have spaces to spare. Come to think of it, they could hold it in my living room and have empty seats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should I offer the money saving option????


p.s.

I do NOT belong to ANY political party - but am known to local members of several.

p.p.s.

(#47)

Tantric Cobblers!!!! Magic!

#46
Steve
Apologies for correcting your English but it should be its, not it's. Its, from what I remember, is called a possessive pronoun while it's stands for it is.
mim

MEET ME AT THE GLASSHOUSE STEVE - I'LL BRING THE BRICKS

Or shall we just leave it's destruction to it's the occupant?

#49
You are quite correct, I should have typed 鈥渋ts鈥� instead of 鈥渋t's鈥�.

Thanks.