成人论坛

Lucy komisar has been busy getting at what the banks have been upto
with CDS's and tax :-



"ICE Trust U.S. was created in anticipation of tougher U.S. laws that will force the trading of derivatives into clearinghouses, in which prices are made public and the losses of one member are shared with others."

I thought the Crick piece on the Lib Dem funding was hardly worth the mention as I don't see Scotland Yard getting involved and the issue could have been turned around.

Labour get state funding on research and union money and so on.

So would it be good for governance if a minority member of a coalition - not a merger - did not get funding or the state facility of civil servants?

The answer has to be no and I would have thought that after all of the cash for honours and expenses rows and so on state funding for all democratic and parties with elected members should be on the agenda.

That way the lobbyists and big business and the unions could not exert undue influence.

I can't see the Euro causing that many issues as for the Lib Dems it has been a long term strategy rather than a sacred cow. I have to say my personal view is it should be very, very long term as though I am not an economist we always seem to be on a slightly different economic cycle due in part to the way we treat housing.

As many experts have already commented the banks are trying to do business as usual our housing sector is taking off again and we don't really have all of the mechanisms in place to make sure we keep the derivatives and credit boom under control.

Perhaps once the US has ground out its response it will be easier to adopt consistent measures but I don't see the point of taking on substandard regulation should it not be up to the mark.

I would guess there will be some sniping from the far right posters who pollute this page with regard to the Israeli Hofesh Shechter and they will start ranting on about the alleged "Jewish hegemony" and world governments and so on and so on.

You may wonder how they manage to come to believe such nonsense but having watched the "Young White and Angry" last night about the English Defence League I conclude there are some very naive people out there who aren't thinking through how they are being used.

But as for those who are the hard core far right its always been a mystery as to how they sustain their beliefs when science and history and day to day experience show that they are fundamentally and entirely wrong.

They know that there is no scientific basis for differences between the races and they know that they have never produced any evidence for their hatred of Jews - its just a cult belief like a UFO group that believes aliens will come to save or destroy us on the basis of no evidence.

When push comes to shove the far right are exemplified by the BNP who when confronted by the EHRC about their illegal racial membership policies whine on about them being a "sniveling quango" but don't go rushing off to court with their "evidence" and carefully crafted arguments.

They just slide back into the shadows for a while and then continue their pathetic and evil lies and propaganda.

So long as people heed Voltaire's words all is well - if they can make people believe absurdities they can make them commit atrocities.

call Brown all you like...but he kept us out of the Euro! For that alone he deserves a modicom of praise...

Hey the Huffpost offers badges for their posters!

Can I suggest the Beeb adopts Milk Monitor badges for the democratic posters and bricks for the few far right nationalists.

The latter is because the far right are quite curious and find bricks interesting.

It also expresses their intellectual prowess and they like throwing them - or bottles around.

"Iain Watson will be poring over the details of the coalition agreement to see what is missing."
So if I want to know the government's plans for the next five years I have to look elsewhere?

#2: i think if i remember right, the LibDems are merely still *trying* to change the rules so they can continue to be tax-payer subsidised, unless that comes under "conspiracy" or "anti-terror laws" i don't think Scotland Yard will be involved yet.

on the whole topic itself - i can see an argument for a *much* smaller contribution, after all what would have happened if a very small party entered the coalition, NOT one of the Big 3拢 with their vast amounts of Elite support?

having said all that, do the Greens/PC/SNP get 拢millions each in tax-payer aid to be able to research? (when PC & SNP were in opposition). I can imagine these Parties have greater needs for research funding than a LapDog Party that only has to ask their Majority partners for info.


#1: interesting link.


#3: the LibDem 'Euro-pledge' was just another smokescreen in the Election, designed to cause 'controversy' and create a false choice. Easily forgotten afterwards, just like the Amnesty 'debate'. Or investment in creating new jobs.

or PR.


#7: you can look at the Govt papers themselves? We pay reporters to analyse and be critical, not to uncritically report what the Govt wants to tell us. That's what ITV/Sky is for.

Just seen that mascot stuff - crikey - clearly out - over the line, just like head-bands, tight shorts and ear studs on men - horrific.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

POLITICS FOREVER OUTSIDE THE LAW (#10 additional)

You have to sit an exam yourself. Coursework taken from the internet is out of order (unless for a Blair Dossier). But a politician can speak another's words to advantage!

The above is not a million miles away from my local Con flyer with a lie on it.

Oh - it just gets more and more honourable.

Sorry media people but its absolutely not acceptable to say its too difficult to explain financial derivatives on mainstream media with words or visuals. The public need to understand this !



Its true that those who fully grasp it arnt good at simplification explaining but you need to do it so go and work on it !

-------------------------
Suspect the pronunciation of Modigliani is without the 'g' - Modil-iani ?

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Ms Abbess has declared that she now wants to run the whole church!

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Any regular viewer of the 鈥楾his week鈥� may have just a bit more of an informed opinion of Ms Abbess鈥檚 attitude toward any form of dissenting view, with the comments on the programme鈥檚 web-site offering a variety of comments from viewers.

Putting this aside ....

Part of the logic for 鈥榮tanding鈥� is that something 鈥榙ifferent鈥� is needed as there is no 鈥榲ariety鈥� amongst the other candidates. Another stated aspect is that the offspring of immigrants need a voice stroke need to be heard regarding the matter of immigration. However what she did not offer was an explanation as to what that 鈥渧oice鈥� wanted her to represent or wanted her to say! One would like to think that were the leadership campaign successful Ms Abbess would represent the majority view of the nation鈥檚 population?

If not, one can only say two things ....

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh!

and

Thank goodness for copy and paste!



Did anyone else notice that ( Sort of - almost made it ) King Con - in answering questions from hacks at the press conference this morning - every time he spoke of the alliance relationship(!) with the Dims he placed his left hand on the edge of the lectern somewhat as if he were steadying himself!

Is this what Poker players call a 鈥榮how鈥�?


And ....

We are told that unemployment is rising and job vacancies are falling.

Strangely that idea seems to be working in reverse for ex-HMP鈥檚 (?)

One 鈥楨x鈥� intends to appear before a select audience - no change there then! - with the intention of being a stand-up comic.

Perhaps his intention is to return to the lower house and get a post in the ....

Ministry of Information!

If so .... he鈥檚 a bit late!


ALSO......

Re....

(It鈥檚 now 21.19 hrs)

31. At 10:34pm on 17 May 2010, JAperson
This comment has been referred to the moderators.


Seventy plus hours later and it鈥檚 still being moderated?


Compared to some of the comment from some of the posters on here surely it isn鈥檛 that contentious?

Old News! But if labour get back in, britain will turn into the good 'ole US of A.

"We were treated to the full marriage contract between the Tories and the Lib Dems today - everything from nuclear power, to broadband, to free schools and the Post Office - so what's been ditched and what's been stitched to sew up the deal?"

some if this sounds good, will be interesting to hear SOLID testimony about funding for these measures however. Its very easy to make vague promises, which can shut the Opposition up for a while, concrete step-by-step proposals that can be measured over time to see if the Govt was being honest, are far less common.

will this new Govt break with that 'tradition'?


craig venter is the multi-$Bnaire whose main 'effort' in recent years was to prevent as much as possible of the mapped Human Genome Project being available for open use by scientists - he wanted to make it privately owned (preferably by him), so he could copyright and patent *natural* patents.

bit like patenting oxygen, or water.


"The Lib Dems and Conservatives hold completely different views on Europe, but does the situation of the euro vindicate the Conservative's position?"

because Sterling is presumably so very strong in comparison??

#14: whatever or not the 'wonks' wanted immigration for, does not automatically make the policies invalid.

yes, it IS worrying what the nuLabour apparatchiks were getting up to, but just like in the US, the far-right, even 'religious' nutters like GW Bush, are completely au fait with immigration - the Right like it because it allows employers to drive down normal wages - or, more accurately perhaps, it allows the intended lowering of wages to be blamed upon 'immigrants'.

so the Left want it because it gives them some leeway to remodel a Culture, the Right wants immigration because it reduces Worker wages and power, and creates a scapegoat to be blamed.

as a Liberal, *i* like immigration because it makes Life more interesting, and it is essential for basic Human Rights to allow people to move and work elsewhere! In a LIBERAL economy, cooperative companies will 'employ' people because they work hard and well, and Culture is ENRICHED by the interplay between various sub-cultures within the UK.

just as a matter of interest, on which 'platform' do you sit Lizzy, and what are your reasons for disliking immigration/emigration? If i may be so bold to ask?

It will be interesting to see how Mr Cameron does in Europe on hist first trip to the continent as the Prime Minister. I should imagine that apart from discussing the economy, he and his counterparts will also be talking about security matters and who knows, like Newsnight tonight, they may find enough time to discuss new forms of dancing.

mim

PLEASE ask a UK ambassador if David Cameron will pressure Sarkozy to have Thaksin Shinawatra arrested and deported back to Thailand, given that he is claimed to have funded and incited the recent riots and therefore deaths in Bangkok. If he (Cameron) says nothing, it's a political embarrassment to our country.

Oh I sit on a very spikey fence gnu. I don't like or dislike immigrants per se, my ma in law was one.

I just can't put up with the overcrowding of my little patch of england, (1035 people to the sq mile, at the last count) and never being able to understand Manglish when I use any hospital.

We are going to run out of water and food here, not to mention land and houses. Remember we can only feed 32% of the population, do the other 30 million starve! ; )

Hi, Kirsty's groupies, did she look good tonight?

mim

It really is most 'fascinating' to watch one of the NN bloggers switching political alliances like gloves. One minute he is all over Labour, the next a 'great friend' of the Tories only to swear an allegiance to the 'LibDims'.

Are there any scientific psychologists there to do some research about the workings of his volatile mind?

M

BYT

I've just done some 'clanning', in my peculiar way, in memory of a lady who I have never met....

mim

tonights comments:

on QT: some who should know better are arguing for "intercept evidence" to be allowed as evidence in civil courts - this is extraordinarily dangerous, as it will allow the State to spy on its citizens in the privacy of their home, and then use that evidence in court!

this is exactly what the USSR did to its citizens, and *exactly* for the same reasons: because the main use of such legislation would inevitably be used against environmental/civil liberty/animal rights/anti-war campaigners.


remember that Iceland banks were 'charged' under anti-terrorism legislation! Under Laws that would allow "intercept evidence" to be introduced, evidence that is gained through *illegal* tapping of communications, then "conspiracy" charges could be brought against Campaigners, for instance women who plan to invade Greenham Common, for instance. "Conspiracy" can mean many things, in the hands of unscrupulous politicians who intend to prevent opposition.

-the cameras with ear-phones added on the streets, now being introduced across the Country, will allow the State to charge people for comments they made whilst walking down the street. Criticise the Govt in Public? Not any more!

not if evidence from concealed microphones can be used against people.


btw, if this doesn't sound *too* bad to most of you, during Labour's Conference in Brighton in 2007, if a member of the Public complained, or insulted the Govt, on the streets of Brighton, that individual would have been arrested for "Terrorism", no matter how mild or private that conversation. I rather doubt the rules have changed on that. I was told that personally by a policeman in a conversation after the Conference, along with the 'code' for reporting that back to the station.

i found that extraordinary at the time. Now add in secret microphones, and being able to be charged with what those ear-phones record without your knowledge or permission.

the entire Power needs of the UK could be fixed by the amount of turning in Orwell's grave.


[the pakistani suspects]
-of the 20, these two are the only ones who decided to remain, rather than stay in the West. The rest scarpered, and are all "living scared" in Pakistan. No charges against any of these men have ever been made in court, and no evidence was given. The UK Govt at that time needed to misdirect the media for a few days, and also place pressure upon Pakistan. Most if not all of those 18 had NO evidence against them, which is why they decided to risk going back to Pakistan instead of stay in the UK - corrupt though Pakistan's police may be in general, even THEY were expected to see there was no evidence against these men. And that is frankly astonishing.

the two who stayed, stayed because obviously they believed there WAS enough evidence, circumstantial or not, to involve them being tortured or even cold-bloodedly murdered if they fled from this country (the UK), that they MAY BE IMPRISONED IN AT ANY TIME!.

now, this may be a shocking notion, but i would like to hear from the two *themselves* what *they* would like to happen, and why?!

it doesn't have to happen the way they argue, but it would be very interesting to hear their views on the matter. Are we allowed to even hear their words? Or like Gerry Adams used to be, are we censored from hearing their own words?

the result may be surprising. Or not. But they should know what they are accused of, who has made the accusation, and allowed to make an open defence.

what *if* they ARE Al Qaeda? But were NOT involved over any bomb plots in the UK?

btw, it is nice to see this Conservative Govt NOT sending people, potentially guilty or not, off on planes to be tortured by Foreign Govts. Its a pity nuLabour didn't have as much back-bone.


wonderful piece on hofesh shechter tonight, the Highest Art, as is so often, speaking/echoing on *many* levels. I would love to see one of his shows - i wonder if he could send me a ticket?? lol. :)

-----
#19: ok lizzy, i get ya, no worries. :)

for me, i would prefer to move to a sustainable food production/transport system that can continue to feed everyone, based upon cooperative ownership and fair-trade ideals. With modern permaculture methods of agriculture, within a few years we would be outstripping the current agribusiness model, and using a tiny fraction of the fuel/energy to do it. Not only is that a system designed to be flexible, stable, and long-lasting, it also allows high population density in small areas supported by largely agricultural/rural lands. This is called a "city", and personally *i* regard them as a Good Thing(tm). ;)

it also allows parity of income between the rural areas and the urban areas, and even ultimately parity income over the different areas (even countries) that agriculturally support the City area. Or high population-density country.

cities are incredibly vital places, if they aren't being sucked dry. Most new syntheses come out of cities, THROUGH the enormous melting pot/salad bowl effects - that go on *simultaneously*. Cities generate Cultural growth, they are more energy efficient than the same population spread out, they allow multiple sub-cultures to proliferate and interact, creating and recreating all the way.

if you want slower cultural diversity, go live in the Rural areas. TV may have modified that, but they are still slower paced.

-that is what they *are*, i neither regard this as a compliment nor insult. - I can enjoy both. :)

--just reread it before posting - i see i needed Dimbleby to keep me from rambling. ;)

"We are going to run out of water and food here, not to mention land and houses. Remember we can only feed 32% of the population, do the other 30 million starve! ; )"

most of our water is quite literally wasted in attempting to massively irrigate land because only one crop is grown on it. The majority of permaculture systems only use natural patterns to maintain their water tables, which would allow far more water to go back into groundwater levels. The higher retention rate of groundwater by permaculture farming also prevents floods from forming, as well as being more resilient to their effects if disaster happens.

there is more than enough water (THINK about our weather!!!! :/ !!! ;) !!), if bad agricultural practices that are FAR too reliant on oil, highly centrally owned and controlled, and MASSIVELY reliant on tax-payer subsidy were to end in favour of permaculture partnership farms.

--plus, surely its better to have 500,000 or so people back on the land, paying taxes, than a few mega-rich agribusiness corps not only refusing to pay taxes, but actually DEMANDING tax-payer subsidy?!! (Remember the EU's "Common Agricultural Policy", and how much money it took/takes? If you were to guess most of the UK's share of the return (multi拢Bns) goes to the small, independent farmer... well, you'd be wrong. Are you surprised?).

i hear so often that [sorry, soapbox ;)} "people today have no connection to how food is made", and we also hear so often that our current agricultural policy will lead to disaster. We also hear that there are "not enough jobs".

so WHY then is this Govt not creating permaculture colleges to train normal people to run permaculture models, in preparation in the 'amazingly unlikely possibility' there is an upward spike in the oil price in the future??

in fact, apart from armour plating its nest, why has it done bug all? :/

..[coughs], plus, it will mean there is more than enough water for us all.

there ARE more than enough resources - it is actually the inefficient economic structure creating shortages.

It looks like the 'Moonlight Sonata' has become an integral part of my being. Almost anything I do, apart obviously when I listen and mnve to other musical wonders and delights, or whatever, I do to this extraordinary beauty although I do quite a bit of improviising on its rhythms, including mucking about in jokey or even ironic kind of way.

mim

Ecolizzy

Have you noticed how often numbers 2 and 3 come up not only in your posts but also those of the people you seem to enjoy to correspond with?

Or is it purely coincidental?

mim

I wonder whether 'Hitler' come 'Churchill' thinks he is also
Ludwig van Beethoven?

The 'hero of the heros', eh?, to be such a 'special' individual?

After a long time with almost no sun spots we have a little development:-



History has shown a correlation with low or no sun spot activity and cooler weather although the why remains.
-------------------------
Modigliani mouths and rear ends

oh dear

Art people are the most affinity fraud prone of all.

Could it be his mouths and elongated lines resulted from African art influence - a derivative, so could it begin to have a different purpose now in helping visually explain financial derivatives - any value there or am I talking poo.

Rather fancy the Braque myself.

#27

you're indulging and no, you are not the hero of the heroes neither

#14 Daily Telegraph link: Immigration: a Plan to Alter the Nation鈥檚 Soul

Just extracting the main points:
".. replacing traditional pride with inherited guilt鈥� facilitated by a large influx of migrants whose presence in the population would require the wholesale deconstruction of the country's sense of its own identity鈥�.the indigenous Briton must be trained always to question the acceptability of his own attitudes, to cast doubt on his own motives, to condemn his own national identity and history...鈥�

#16 gnu鈥檚 comments:

鈥渟o the Left want it because it gives them some leeway to remodel a Culture, the Right wants immigration because it reduces Worker wages and power, and creates a scapegoat to be blamed.鈥�

Your alleged options (with which I do not necessarily disagree) are what the politicians want 鈥� not what the GBP want. You summarised your liking for immigration as:

鈥渂ecause it makes Life more interesting鈥� Like me, you travelled overseas and experienced interesting cultures, but I don鈥檛 want my country to be the homogenous melting pot of them all.

鈥渋t is essential for basic Human Rights to allow people to move and work elsewhere!鈥� I note the exclamation mark (tongue in cheek, maybe?)

鈥淚n a LIBERAL economy, cooperative companies will 'employ' people because they work hard and well.鈥� As you imply above, companies will always maximise profits by minimising cost; hence, they welcome cheap labour either in UK or offshore.

鈥淐ulture is ENRICHED by the interplay between various sub-cultures within the UK.鈥� One alien culture鈥檚 鈥榠nterplay鈥� seems to aim at UK culture鈥檚 destruction.

#23 And if you ever find that Shangri-la, let me know, and I'll join you!

And for Go1, the Daily Telegraph article states:
鈥淚f you take the view that the state should concern itself only with behaviour 鈥� with what people do, especially insofar as it affects other people, rather than what they think or feel 鈥� then you will be more likely to veer to the Right.鈥� And deliberate extreme measures by government to affect what we think and feel (by mass immigration) will inevitably results in deliberate extreme behaviour in response.

PLEASE EXCUSE - I SIMPLY MUST MUSE.

There is much wrong with this world, with this country, and ever shall it be thus in spite of all the fine words spouted on air and on here. Yet, there is such beauty and wonderment too. Remember Desiderata?

鈥�........in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.鈥�
Max Ehrmann c.1920

I have been in my garden since 06:30, working mostly but then took time to lay back, listen to the birds, feel the damp grass on my back and under my feet, and drink in the heady heavenly scents drifting on the warm soft breeze. Scents of azalea mollis (the yellow one you know will be round the corner because you can smell it 50 paces away), lilac and damp earth on my hands. Listening to birds flying in and out of shrubs, breeze humming, leaves rustling in breeze, distant cars and children on the way to school 鈥� oh yes and the jets using my chimney as a marker, flying in pairs on a usual three times round cycle. Looking at my imperfect plot and letting thoughts of how it mirrors life, wrong things in wrong places, some threatened with extinction by strong smothering weeds, disease and decay.....

I returned to the real world, with senses refreshed (limbs aching maybe) and am girded for whatever life throws at me today, travelling hopefully. I have W B Yeats 鈥楲ake Isles of Innisfree鈥� skipping through my mind on a loop.

Mim

Kirsty? I am not a groupie, I am a girlie and NOT that way inclined but I thought last night鈥檚 suit was Soooooooooooo much better than usual. A slight nod to her individuality but largely business like and not distracting. Now Kirsty dear, slow down your speech, drop the tone a little (tried listening to Selena Scott recently -that's too slow and laboured but somewhere in between) and maybe you'll cut the mustard as a broadcast journalist.

Brill prog (Sacred Music) on 成人论坛 4 last night had many polish composers Mim. Very moving and soothing

I've just downloaded some pictures that the White House e-mailed to me. On one of them there is a man with a moustache on the left and another one on the right? Are they re-incarnations of 'Hitler'?

gnu, you know so much about spying equipment, scientific experiments, and so on, can you 'enlighten' the world further about the furher's 'ability' to multiply?

US Financial Reform



"Make no mistake: though it's not war, it is financial warfare -- and there's an enemy out there that does not wish you well. A few reform measures aren't going to change the fact that there are hugely powerful banks looking to ensnare you and your family in a cycle of debt. Foreclosures continue to surge."

Just remember that !

And that banks and seemingly the mainstream media are advocating voodoo gambling for a profit - the media will not explain the lunacy of derivatives not because its too hard but because it is legalised unregulated lunacy that has nothing to do with the meaning of anyone's well being. And when/if that fully sinks in there will be wide-scale run on banks.

"SO WHY THEN IS THE GOVERNMENT NOT" (#23)

Governance is in the hands of an extreme subset of MEN and WOE-MEN (who function like men without the visceral drive).

The New Politics is behaving just like Old Politics, as evidenced by the prepared defence (posted by me yesterday) against media taunts of split Tories.

Until we abandon feudal Westminster party-politics and choose local REPRESENTATIVES for their integrity (aided by a Certificate of Voting Competence) there will only ever be one 'politics' - the worst sort.

INVOKE THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE

Will this create apartheid?



Kids won't be mixing with everyone will they?!

WHEN VINCE SPOUTS 'MANTRA' ALL IS LOST (#34)

Actually, I had rumbled Our Vince a while back. He is as driven and power-hungry as all the rest - just more subtle.

Remember how we took Australian, indigenous kids from their parent, for their own good? British Education is little different, except Mammon gets a guaranteed supply of fodder also. It's a great British myth that Mothers, and mothering, are of no value to children - a myth long present in the Ruling Psyche, and now more general. Did Nick-n-Dave both go to boarding school? There is only one archetypal fairness.

INVOKE THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE

#29 indignantindegene

"And for Go1, the Daily Telegraph article states:
鈥淚f you take the view that the state should concern itself only with behaviour 鈥� with what people do, especially insofar as it affects other people, rather than what they think or feel 鈥� then you will be more likely to veer to the Right.鈥� And deliberate extreme measures by government to affect what we think and feel (by mass immigration) will inevitably results in deliberate extreme behaviour in response."

-------

So did you want to expand on "deliberate extreme behaviour in response" as its pretty meaningless otherwise? You mean some racists will be cooking up ricin and you applaud that?

Also you offer up an opinion from the Telegraph as though it is tablets of stone.

Will all due respect to the Telegraph that's not the case and as has been said many times before the votes of the people at the last general election show that people are happy with multi-culturalism but not at all happy about rates of immigration and control.

You are a toothless sheep trying to gnaw at a dead whale as you never really get down to the essence of your beliefs and show that there is some difference between the races.

In the same vein the BNP could not come up with a credible defence against the EHRC requirement that they comply with the law on their racial membership rules because there is no science that would stand up in court to support their views.

#23 gnuneo

"on QT: some who should know better are arguing for "intercept evidence" to be allowed as evidence in civil courts - this is extraordinarily dangerous, as it will allow the State to spy on its citizens in the privacy of their home, and then use that evidence in court!"

They do this in the US for instance and it works well.

They should have to have a warrant for the taps today so it should never be big brother and if they are doing the taps and uncover evidence its crazy that that crucial evidence is not made available - or the assertion of reliable intelligence is challenged as it becomes clear that their interpretation of what was said was wrong.

#19 ecolizzy

"Oh I sit on a very spikey fence gnu. I don't like or dislike immigrants per se, my ma in law was one."

So did you ever say to your ma in law that you didn't like visiting London anymore due to the racial mix as you have said previously?

#34 Ecolizzy


More money for poorer (financially 鈥� judged on what and by whom?) pupils might at least deliver financial services direct rather to parents who may just squander it elsewhere. BUT......
....... I think one might find that the poorest (ability/attitude) already get the lions share in terms of per capita spending. As ever, the 鈥榓verage鈥� hard working, nose clean get hammered. They may not set the world on fire so are of little interest to the teachers seeking glory by association with Oxbridge entrance etc, and they don鈥檛 cause too many ripples so they are largely left to muddle through.




If this link doesn鈥檛 work, google the average child poem.

As for parent led new schools. No thanks. Too dangerously diffuse and hasn鈥檛 worked in Sweden. We need ALL schools to be good schools adn put money/energy into achieving that. Teachers should be better trained and better supported. They should be at the starting point better educated themselves adn psychologically tested before allowed in front of a class.

And we need to focus AS MUCH on the first five years as we do the last three. By the time a child reaches secondary, they have been moulded, labelled and pigeon holed and it takes a strong/bright child or pushy parents to undu the damage.

We need first and foremost to have some clear decision as to whom needs educating, in what and to what level. If we tore down the ridiculous 50% in university adn invested half of the money freed up in learning for life for those who don鈥檛 want or need such a qualification, or crushed 4 years (Scotland) into 2.5 there would be less cost, less debt, more focus in benefit.

And we need to be able to shift poor teachers out of their jobs, promote good ones to remain IN THE CLASSROOM not promoted into LA Offices or management.


We DO NOT need new divisive shiny buildings because they are called schools and are 'new' and 'different' just for the sheer hell of it.

We have far too many half empty shiny new (and old) buildings already, barely used but revered beyond their intrinsic value. Think Churches, Grace and favour homes, stately piles and many more...... Its what happens inside buildings that counts, not the bricks and mortar.

(Off topic I know but.... our village is raising money for church fabric fund and is getting over 拢4000 a year in coffee mornings, raffles etc. It is used 2 hours 3 sundays a month plus the occasional wedding and funeral. I believe in house church.


If you tried to fund such a building nowadays, you wouldn't get a penny unless you could offer 80% of the space to be used 80% of the time. Believe me, I am in need of in excess of 拢5m for project where we almost can do that.


I could go on but duty calls.

#25: so "Skiddoo"? :) Never really been into numerology, but there are certainly the occasional 'coincidence' from them.

#26: it is my experience that those who are/become "special" tend to be wishing they could lead 'normal lives'. But you do what you have to do, and take the punches that come with it. Most of the problems that come with being 'special' (poor buggers!) are that many people do not realise their own 'specialness and gifts', and instead focus on what these others have. Jealousy is a terrible emotion, and has destroyed *many* lives.

#31: have you watched the film "Slumdog Millionaire"? I am NOT an insider, in fact very much the opposite. To know and understand too much of what is going on attracts attention, to be able to write that coherently for others makes one a target for the Powerful. The only advantage i have is to be able to spot the characteristics of those who are willing to do the dirty work of the State, to spy on, and destroy, those who are struggling for a better future. Do you have ANY IDEA how long the odds are that i will ever draw a pension??

i do what i can, with the limits placed on me by circumstances. This is neither the Life, not the World, that i would have chosen, had i the choice. I can only hope our Children get a better future than what we had, and what they are currently offered.


glad your dancing is fluid, and expresses yourSelf well atm, did you enjoy the piece on the dance composer last night? xx

#29: indie,

"Like me, you travelled overseas and experienced interesting cultures, but I don鈥檛 want my country to be the homogenous melting pot of them all."

it already is, in many respects. The UK went out and forcibly controlled other Lands and Peoples, exporting and enforcing our Culture onto them. The flip-side of that, is that many individuals of those cultures came here, and settled in our cities. The World is to a huge degree a mirror of our own Society.

the most obvious example of this is London - which is really a World Metropolis, not an English city. This is cool! How many other Nations have a World Metropolis as their Capital city? The Cultural diversity and creativity of London is completely unmatched by any other UK city, and it is *precisely* because of this melting-pot/salad bowl effect. The UK's global music Culture has brought in FAR more income than the City ever has or will, and it has done it without playing casino with *our* money. Our films and TV are also global, to the point the French put restrictions on our exports because we were "contaminating" their culture! English culture is strong, for both good and ill.

Foreign born immigrants are actually a very small minority in the UK, and although they have children - those children grow up as a fusion of UK and 'home' culture. A Culture does not grow by retreating and licking its 'wounds', pining for a mythical past - it moves forward confidently, constantly adapting and evolving.

we British have strode on the World's Stage with our heads held high for CENTURIES - why are we now to scurry back to our little Island and cower in fear of change?

homogeneity comes from enforcing a unitary, mythical Cultural past, not from allowing individuals and sub-cultures from creating and identifying their own place in UK Society.

i am not scared of British Muslims, nor am i scared of British Buddhists, or British Atheists. AS LONG AS none of these groups, or others, believe they can start to enforce their own beliefs upon the rest of us.

""In a LIBERAL economy, cooperative companies will 'employ' people because they work hard and well." As you imply above, companies will always maximise profits by minimising cost; hence, they welcome cheap labour either in UK or offshore."

nope. That is what CORPORATIONS do. In fact cooperatives (like Infinity Foods) far prefer able, quick witted and confident workers than cheap, 'hammered-into-shape' worker-droids. That is because in a cooperative EVERYONE is a shareholder, and everyone benefits from the profit the company makes. Sure, profit is important, but cooperatives, not being exploitative, believe that higher profits come through a happy, well educated and self-respecting workforce, rather than the cheapest possible wages they can get away with.

""Culture is ENRICHED by the interplay between various sub-cultures within the UK." One alien culture鈥檚 鈥榠nterplay鈥� seems to aim at UK culture鈥檚 destruction."

would that be the right-wing press that has been manipulating Public opinion to blame "immigrants" for the stupidities and greed of our ruling class, presumably to create high levels of racial tension that will cause riots? Would that be the sub-culture that decided to invade and destroy foreign countries for the whim of a religious mad-man in another country? Would that be the sub-culture that has removed so many ancient British Freedoms and Rights on this fictional War on error? Or do you mean Islam, that has about as much chance of becoming the UK's dominant sub-culture as i have of becoming Queen?

"#23 And if you ever find that Shangri-la, let me know, and I'll join you!"

'Heaven on Earth' is a myth, an impossibility. I just want people to stop exploiting each other, destroying, poisoning and raping GAIA's abundance, and risking EVERYTHING by building WMD. People can still be offensive to each other, and i'm sure there would be enough trouble and strife to go around to keep everyone (un)happy as much as they could wish for!

but surely actually planning for a *better* future for our children is not such a radical idea??? :/


#30: I AM JEALOUS!! (plots to take the garden away so i can have it all for myself!!! - darn that hobbit, why did he have to take my ring?? :'( :'(


#36: Gangy, i seem to get the idea that indy is arguing about *culture* not race?

#37:

""#23 gnuneo

"on QT: some who should know better are arguing for "intercept evidence" to be allowed as evidence in civil courts - this is extraordinarily dangerous, as it will allow the State to spy on its citizens in the privacy of their home, and then use that evidence in court!"

They do this in the US for instance and it works well.""

umm, no it doesn't.



in fact, there have been 100s of THOUSANDS of cases where normal americans were illegally tapped by their Govt. There has also been rigorously researched evidence that the NSA has used its electronic bugging and surveillance to steal trade and patent secrets - and to hand them to US corporations.

-unless you mean "worked well like in the USSR". Because, along with the other anti-Liberty measures under the WoT, opponents of the Bush Regime were harassed, imprisoned, and even charged for such offences as "wearing T-Shirts in public places with political messages on". I kid you not, people were being arrested for having anti-Bush comments on their T-Shirts. And charged.

would you *really* want such people as those to be able to secretly bug your homes, cars, workplaces, and emails, looking for 'evidence' that you are less than happy with the current Govt?? Personally, *i* wouldn't.

maybe i'm paranoid, after all, we live in proper, Liberal Democracies right??

LOL. (sobs).

No 36. Gangofone says - "You are a toothless sheep trying to gnaw at a dead whale as you never really get down to the essence of your beliefs and show that there is some difference between the races."

TIME FRAMES AND THE SOULLESS (#41)

Yo Gnu! I think I must take issue.

You say: "I am not scared of British Muslims" - OK. I get the impression that when the (apparent) extremists give us a bit of come-uppance, the silent Muslim majority are extra silent. I gave this some thought. Could it be that a culture, not yet sold out to the Devil - as we clearly have - looks upon our alcohol-addled, porn-peppered, scam-saturated, dog-eat-dog 'degradation' and quietly DESPISES us?

Maybe you (we) have nothing to fear directly, but what if we really ARE (objectively) despicable, as I surmise? That's worth a shudder or two! Can we fix it with deckchair arrangements of 'The New Politics'?

NO WE CAN'T

#39: Brighty, spot on. Loved that poem.

the only 'problem' i have with it is that it ignores the necessary 'averageness' of Life in general - even 'average' Life can demand great things of us, and those who are 'average' at school may find they have incredible talents later in Life. Schooling should also be aiming to make the students appreciate their own qualities and strengths, and *prepare* them for whatever challenges may come their way.

"Teachers should be better trained and better supported. They should be at the starting point better educated themselves adn psychologically tested before allowed in front of a class."

they should also go back and be trained in modern pedagogic practices, instead of imaging the horrendous, out-dated techniques left over from the days the Church controlled education.

the idea of giving (probably ignorant) parents control over education is going to be a disaster - just like Sweden has found, and THEY put many TIMES the investment into early education than we do. Retrain teachers, and make the State school sector *better* than the private schools. But would *you* trust the Tories to deliver on that??

"
We DO NOT need new divisive shiny buildings because they are called schools and are 'new' and 'different' just for the sheer hell of it."


but but but - those are built and run under PFI rules, ensuring multi-nats can make enormous profits from education!?! How can that POSSIBLY be a bad idea?? Short-term profit-maximisation is the name-of-the-game, and by screwing up, then the multi-nats can then house the failed students in their PFI prisons!

all seems quite straightforward to me, and i'm very glad the Tory Govt will continue with PFI. In other news, we also need more wars.

#43: i spent a year or so on an Islamic forum a few years ago (www.gawaher.com). You are part right, in fact. Many muslims DO regard our easy, libertarian ways with much loathing - not least because if they are UK born, many of their children have adopted UK Culture (see 'East is East' , instead of Islam. You might understand this if any of your friends are Christians, they are having the same "problem" with young people actually deciding to enjoy themselves in this world, instead of waiting for the "afterlife".

as you can imagine, i was regarded as something of a 'maverick' LMAO ;)

actually, it was intensely interesting to learn the various intellectual threads running through Western Islam, how the individuals and communities felt about tWoT, reading less 'orthodox' articles, and also observing the behaviour of non-Muslim westerners who went there to abuse the 'locals'. As well as hearing the aforementioned hair-pulling-out by the older Muslims at the younger ones adoption of western lifestyles and attitudes.

as to why they go quiet after a "come-uppance", is that they are really between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, the vast majority of Muslims are completely opposed to violence, and most are aware that using violence against civilians in countries where Muslims are allowed to follow their religion unmolested is specifically *BANNED* under the Qoran (this is also why so many liberal Moslems talk about the need to have *more* religious instruction - to eliminate the lies and propaganda of the extremists!)on the other hand, they, like most right-minded people, oppose the wars in the WE, and do not want to drive their children into the hands of extremists by apparently supporting the West's War on Islam. Plus, the last thing the mainstream media want is to allow moderate muslims to speak and defuse tensions, when they have gone to all the trouble of building up 'Islamophobia'!

and no, we are NOT "Objectively despicable", in fact our stated Culture is profoundly respectable! HOWEVER, what we *actually* do falls somewhat short of that stated Ideology, of universal human rights. They certainly wish we would actually live up to our Ideals - it is doubtful that over a MILLION iraqs would still have died, if we *really* were "democratic societies".

the biggest marches in the history of the World - and yet the invasion went ahead. Universal Human Rights - until our rulers find it gets in their way. Freedom of Speech and Religion - until the majority are inspired by tabloid press and wish to end that.

in theory, we ARE the best Cultures in the World - in reality, desperately unfortunately, we do not live up to that.

and no, this Clegg/Camoron "New Politics" aren't going to do jack about this. Are any of us surprised?

but even so i am not "scared of muslims" - in terms of actual threat, in terms of actual casualties and damage caused, it is almost impossible for even muslim immigrants to have as much impact on destroying UK political Rights and Freedoms as the actual *Govt* we have.

I am fed up with the catastrophising about the euro. I quite accept Britain not being in it but why is the commentariat relentlessly talking it down and saying in effect that the eurozone countries were all wrong? If they want a euro why shouldn't they have it?

The euro will be fixed because there is no alternative. There are no other currencies in the eurozone. If anything the euro will probably be devalued in relation to other currencies but even that has its advantages. There is just as much reason to be worried about sterling if one wants to worry.

I believe that the current euro problems are due to some extent to the flaws in the convergence issues but these can be addressed. What is not on the cards is an abandonment of the euro. what would happen then? It doesn't bear thinking about.

The other major cause of the current travails is the global financial crisis.The huge rescue package is driven by the volatile global financial markets which appear to have the right to hold the world to ransom.

A FINAL FLING

You鈥檇 never guess that education (and all BIG Administration) is a pet topic of mine

So, to follow up on my #39 and gnuneo #44 of Thursday


The Average/mean which is huge majority (80%+ of the population by my estimation if one ignores the proliferation of celebrity and tv talent/fly on wall shows are largely ignored and unsupported. This is the bedrock of our society. And many many in those masses are quietly and unsung making massive contributions to the BIG Society. The young mother who looks after her own children and gives them good solid family/social values; the hard working teacher who gives above and beyond the call of duty quietly cocking a snook at whoever working time review鈥� is document of the moment; the hard working dad who gives up countless hours to manage 60 or so kids at football training, organise games offer transport......

Recognise strengths and help them be developed. A few years ago (apologies to those who have seen it before) I chaired Prize Giving at my local Academy and wanted within the glorification of the great and the good (and they DID recognise EFFORT and not just achievement) to recognise the role of everyone in helping the winners win and the necessity for supporting structures. There would be not TOP without a middle and a bottom? I used the analogy of a tree......... 鈥� In the canopy of a rain forest, the tallest strongest trees make it through into the sunlight from the dense murky depths. But they could not be where they are without the contribution made from fertile soil to in which to grow, a strong trunk to support them, branches to provide structure and water that gives life. Even, dare we consider it, rotting vegetation hundreds of feet below are essential to the tree鈥檚 growth.鈥�

A few people in the room really GOT IT! But they already knew what I meant and the encouragement and perhaps slight warning contained within.

Prepare for 鈥榣ife鈥� including the F word. Failure as an opportunity, NOT as currently seen, something that is an END and to be avoided at all costs. Red pen on my work helped me to do things better, not damage my ego/esteem.

PFI
I see nothing intrinsically wrong in seeking investment from business/industry towards building/running of schools. What IS wrong is the way rewards and payback are organised. Too high an expectation in 拢拢拢拢拢拢拢拢拢拢 terms is promised/required. This should be largely altruistic investment, the reward being the human output that will longer term benefit the investor and the community it serves. It should be a community funded/paid back model.

The other big issue in schooling/ education as I see it, is it is just TOO big and too centrally controlled. One size really doesn鈥檛 fit all. There is largely a different need in the rural 鈥楢cademy鈥� my children went to from the need of the multi cultural comp I went to. I suggest that not much of those differences/gaps have changed in the 30+ years between deliveries either.

#43, & #45 cont:

you may find this discussion interesting for instance, barry:



(scroll past the top banner for the discussion).

btw, i self-define as a "neo-pagan taoist", if you were wondering what gawaher's "Other" status for religion meant. :D


#47: yes! xx