³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

'The terms of an inquiry into claims British agents were complicit in the torture of terror suspects are still being debated, the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ understands.'

Well I hope it is broad and looks at constitutional issues and issues that maybe should be constitutional as well.

For example if MI5/MI6 were acting on instruction then should they have refused and are the existing mechanisms able to handle the reality of that scenario.

If "sofa politics" was involved and an unelected official like Alistair Campbell was relaying what the government wanted via the back channels that means there is unaccountability.

I am not sure if the inquiry will take in external renditions and what the government knew.

Lord Carlile has reasonably indicated that compensation being offered whilst protecting National Security resolves the problem.

But it won't indicate how we came to this pass and why it won't happen again.

On a related matter I know Lofti Raissa got compensation over the destruction of his livelihood but I also believe his family all got the sack after he was accused of training the 9/11 bombers. Did they get compensation as well?

On the cuts I remain of the view that there is no alternative and Labour themselves were going to cut almost the same amount in the end anyway.

Its also clear from the markets that the sovereign debt crisis could yet make it all academic as I assume should that become Wall St III we simply don't have the money for another stimulus package.

So the notions that we can simply grow our way out of trouble are not credible to me as the future is far from certain. As many have commented there have been three double dips out of thirty eight and if we can't afford to go with stimulus injections for much longer then there have to be cuts.

If people were throwing up ideas for how to make painless cuts then it would all be different.

My view of Labour remains that of seeing an arsonist complaining about the speed of the fire brigade response.

I applaud the Ken Clarke initiative but myself I would be happier if there was more of an initiative to tackle the causes of crime that lie in other realms - that maybe should be connected policy wise.

For instance many prison inmates will be there due to drugs but we still don't have a strategy on drugs that anybody thinks is going to "win".

Drug people have to launder money and banks tend to be amoral and not notice it.

Given the amount of state money in banks in the West why could we not beef up money laundering measures so that you can stop the laundering that would impact on drugs cartel stability and profitability?

Would it make sense to obtain UN measures to destroy Opium production in Afghanistan and pay the farmers compensation. They can then grow a different crop and a huge source of drugs is at least temporarily disrupted?

I assume the Rwanda piece will be grim but it always amazes me how resilient and benign and practical people are in that sort of situation.

There are issues over there as I gather some reporter was shot dead and there is a feeling it may have been the government.

But overall they have been remarkable in their recovery.

The other side of the coin is the darkness of those who perpetrate the evil that led to the Rwanda genocide.

We know that even after history has shown us the utter evil of the Nazi's there are still apologists and enthusiasts - as this page has been witness to in previous days - no matter what the weight of evidence and science and law court testimonies.

Therefore I assume that a much smaller percentage of people do still lurk in Rwanda and neighbouring countries who would, given the chance, perpetrate such acts again.

Perhaps the lesson is that all societies always need to be very vigilant when they know such extremists exist.

why Leeds... Bolton would be better where the Council is pursuing Hammersmith and Fulham policy... cut on kids and the frail and the poor. So Much for the Cameroon's 'Caring Toryism @... As Erik Pickles said Cameroon is really rather right wing ...as are his tory councillors and now Lib Dem too.

Just to have a break from Gangos comments, here's one I read earlier...



Now this looks pretty clear where our jobs have gone, and it's ONS figures not something dreampt up by me.

But there's no chance any of these immigrants will return to their own countries, so looks as though we will all have to lower our standard of living. Hard fought for by our parents and grandparents. My mother even remembers having a charity hospital box indoors to save for the 15 miles away general hospital. No NHS then, and never saw a doctor as a child.

How much real evidence is there Newsnight that China's signals on the yuan valuation will be converted into action that sees an improvement in trade balances?

That could be critical to seeing export led growth in the struggling economies and the UK is hoping to use exports to lead us to recovery.

there was a Rwandan Tutsi in one of my courses years ago, and she described the atrocities with that calm, matter-of-fact tone that can carry so much deep emotion. She only survived because her teacher, a Hutu, refused to allow the militias to enter the school - and was respected enough to carry it. She lost her entire family.

her stories to me also included how Western nations were entirely complicit in that event.


i hope that the report manages to avoid the clichéd "ignorant brutish black African men' angle that epitomises so much Western reporting on these matters, and completely ignores the reams of hard evidence that tactics such as mass-rape and ethnic cleansing were deliberate policies used by even the British State in the past. Ask the Scots, Welsh and Irish, let alone the various global colonies under the Flag.

and now we are once again seeing this is Central Asia, where (unsurprisingly) Great Powers are competing.

i hope the interviewer shows compassion for those who survived such times. They may live on another continent, but they are just as human as we are, and as deserving of a decent life.

oh no, not the Tutsi's again...

#6: that is largely replicated across the entire EU. Ask the Spanish about the entire CITIES where immigrants are a large majority - many English amongst them.

ask the poles about towns and villages purchased as cheap 'second homes' for other, richer Europeans, - even Norway has an entire region largely populated by Russians.

i'm not saying it is good or bad, in fact a bit of both really, but it *really* sticks in my throat that the multi-£millionaires in charge of the UK are cutting tax-receipts upon multi-nationals, and the already ludicrously wealthy (if indeed not actually HANDING them more money on a tax-free platter!), whilst playing the "immigrant" card through the Meeja to distract attention from their own incompetencies and corruption.

its actually pretty clever - you want to drive down domestic wages, and cut worker rights, so you allow in mass immigration, allowing companies to drive down the wages 'due to competition', and then ALSO get to blame the immigrants for the reduction in welfare services that was also intended from the beginning!!

(you =/= *you*, of course. ;) )

and then there are international agreements that the UK has bound itself legally by - terrible things, like allowing immigrants to bring in their spouses etc. After all, if i emigrated to Canada, was given residency there, it would be perfectly acceptable for the Canadian Govt to turn around and prevent my spouse joining me there. Or, maybe not..? What are your thoughts on this?

and expecting the TORIES of all parties to cut immigration is just laughable - they are funded by exactly the same companies that have most benefited from the immigration policy! This is precisely the same confusion that Americans got, when they discovered that the uber-nationalist G W Bush was entirely in favour of Mexican immigration - it allowed his buddies to drive down even the pitiful wages they were currently offering.

btw, lower wages harms the economy, as lower wages not only mean less consumption, but also less personal tax taken by the Govt. It is NO surprise, that the more of an economy the multi-nats control, the less tax they pay, the lower wages they pay, and the more Govt and their tame Meeja hunt around for a scapegoat to explain why the economy is not doing so well.

--foreigners are *always* so easy a target, along with minority groups.

if we didn't have immigrants to blame, it would be women who work, or even homosexuals who are 'destroying the national fibre'. It might even be corrupt MPs, 'Global Problems', it might be 'Wrinklies who lie about their age to keep working'. A Scapegoat WILL be found, to redirect Public attention from the real causes of the economic crises.

Do note how many times in the Corporate Press it is mentioned how tax-receipts from the parts of the economy controlled by the Multi-nats have fallen dramatically, whilst they demand ever more subsidies and tax-breaks. Alongside enormous 'downsizing' and 'out-sourcing'.

...never?

after all, why would someone like Murdoch allow his own personal corporate Meeja to criticise the damage the Corporations do?

i'm not saying that the levels of immigration the UK has experienced in the last 2 decades does not have its problems, obviously it does, especially when Govt is slyly cutting Social budgets, but if the UK was underlyingly healthy, it wouldn't be a huge issue at all. It is not, however, and it is not the fault of the immigrants for that - instead a political system where large corporations are able to openly purchase politicians due to no limits on campaign contributions, along with an economic structure peasants in the Middle Ages/Roman Empire would easily recognise.

#6 ecolizzy

"Just to have a break from Gangos comments, here's one I read earlier..."

"Now this looks pretty clear where our jobs have gone, and it's ONS figures not something dreampt up by me."

Well as ever nobody is obliged to read my posts though we are all open when we post to comments.

I have commented on yours in the past where you were happy to write in effect that you did not like to visit London anymore due to the racial mix.

So when you are looking at stats it would seem to me that you may not dream up the figures but you may be motivated by factors such as race.

As I have said many times in the past I personally would like to see a lot tighter controls on immigration and on deporting failed asylum seekers.

That is not on the basis of race but practical issues like planning and long term environmental sustainability and on the need not to simply abandon areas where there is large scale long term unemployment. There is also the plain need to control who gets into your country.

In the past a lot of people who were happy to identify themselves as National Socialists on this page would use any excuse to try and promote their crackpot ideology. They liked to "explicate" why the Holocaust never happened and how race and IQ were inextricably linked and how Hitlers policies had some merit. Immigration was always flavour of the month.

Its inevitable therefore that when posters interacted with them you ask questions not just about what they are saying but where they are going.

I wish I had listed all of the posters on that one day who all announced that "most of the posters on this page agree with the BNP".

That does not mean they all were the BNP but as I say when some were quite happy to be "open minded" on National Socialism it is revealing.

Yet even the BNP does not have the intellectual capacity to define its evidence on the reasonableness of racial distinction as has been shown by its failure to resist in court or comply with the EHRC on the legal requirement for non-racial membership rules.

As for any barbed comments about me I am long since immune. The very silly cookieducker even formally declared war on me something that I found very touching.

to flicks, if you're still around: an addenda to the global economic analysis, and how the US is using $debt to fund its Imperial ambitions.

'Before the election the then chancellor [Alistair Darling] was asked the question: 'Will you acknowledge that public sector jobs will be cut?' Darling: 'It's inevitable.'"

Cameron accused Harman of scoring a "spectacular own goal" as he seized on forecast figures that suggested the former Labour government's plans would have resulted in 70,000 fewer public sector jobs next year and 150,000 fewer the year after.'

On the one hand the Labour Party does not have the same clout in the media that it did.

But on the other whilst it is the job of the media to tease out the realities of the political scene and to ask questions it would seem to me that despite almost unanimous agreement on what has to be done - with differences on timing to be fair - they manage to leave the impression that the coalition are laying into the cuts on ideological grounds.

Yet whilst we don't want the BoE to be political King has signalled that there had to be cuts.

It will be very interesting to me when the new Labour leader is chosen to see how they react to Alistair Campbells signals that he would like to be an MP.

Is he so indelibly linked to their past wayward adventures on issues like Iraq (and torture and renditions) that they would want him and would he if chosen be seeking to encourage the "sofa politics" that for example apparently largely bypassed the cabinet system on Iraq?

The trick for Labour is to redefine themselves whilst they cleanse themselves of those that caused the need for such redefinition.

My suspicion is that the Labour Party remains arrogant and conceited and largely out of touch and they will probably plough along the same trough as before.

All eyes will be on the torture inquiry and Chilcott.

brossen, something for you:



and something you probably won't like:




an article the Greeks should maybe read..?



--and possibly the UK Govt as well!


it would be interesting to see comparative reporting on RBS etc like this:




and last report - ever wonder WHO is benefiting economically from the Occupation of Palestine?



"While the US government has on numerous occasions affirmed the illegality of Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, it encourages American support by providing tax deductions for donations to these settlements, which have nearly doubled within a year and are rapidly accelerating."


money is more important than Human Rights for some... who are busy 'running the world'.

#8 & #15

Don't tell us what it is to be human. You've long forgotten the true meaning of the word/feeling, shortie.

It 'all amounts' to future nothingness

signed - one of your unattainable victims
yrour claims are/will be short lived and only in your winnie the pooh's type of dreams, if one can call them as such

it looks like you may have turned 'flicks', previously signing in as 'streetphotobeing' into one of your real victims, one of countless many

APPEAL TO BIG BULLIES - WHAT ARE YIU WAITING FOR? - HAVEN'T YOU HAD ENOUGH OF THE SCHIZOID WORM, I.E. no 2 / 52 ?????????? results in a few hours PLEASE

#32 FROM THE PREVIOUS PAGE

It's so obvious who's side you're on though you seem to have weazled your way into the current USA democratic ways, resorting at times to be/?/ggary for 'peace'.

mushy peas pizza, anybody??/?

I wonder if Ken would agree with these kids sentences...

I hope to goodness it wouldn't have meant community service, for, in this case murder. Why do they only get 4 years these days for killing a vunerable member of society, is that all this mans life's worth? It IS the kids fault, not the general public, lots of people have crap lives but they don't go around beating peole to death.

The rapidly growing population of Peterborough...

THIS IS YOUR BA CAPTAIN SPEAKING - WELL SORT OF (#6)

All is lost Lizzy. I had Joe Super-cool on the flight deck, returning from Germany. He was so laid back his consonants caught on his tonsils and his vowels fell out his ears. One announcement he made was sooo cool-speak, it took me a whole sentence to realise he wasn't in German mode!

Manglish might not be the whole problem. (Although it was coming over a carp Tannoy on the Heathrow Express - a heady mix . . .

Job cuts in the public sector are already happening! It's old news to those who work there.

Three people very close to me do, one a psychiatric nurse has said all staff that leave are not being replaced, and if they are they're only care assistants, and that's been going on for at least 6 months.

One has not felt the full affects yet, but will when money's cut from schools budgets.

The third works in a public sector job, he has been told 270 will be made redundant, 11% of the workforce, but they were informed at least a couple of weeks ago of this. He also pointed out, that many that work in his department are from, Australia, New Zealand, the Caribbean and South Africa, now I wonder which ones will get sacked, probably not the foreign staff. Oh and he works in finance not world affairs.

the original estimate for a successful invasion and holding of afghanistan was 1 million troops. the unemployed could be sent there.

seriously the huge number of migrants means the amount of money churning in the economy is billions less than it should be as they send most their money 'home'. The uk is bleeding to death and only survives through constant infusions of debt both personal and government.

the govt could easily save billions a year by getting back the public billions a year paid to millionaires who merely own land. yet nothing. and no mention of a land tax which would bring the uk land laws in line with the 21st century rather than the 12th.

Gango at 11 wrote:

"As for any barbed comments about me I am long since immune. The very silly cookieducker even formally declared war on me something that I found very touching."

I'm glad you were touched.

#21

out of the 3 you mention that are supposed to be close to you, apart from the psychiatric nurse, do you mean jj by any chance??m

mim

I fail to see how the bricks and mortar of a prison are responsible for the lack of rehabilitation inside. I may be wrong, but isn't this argument a non-sequitur?

I also fail to see how a prison population of about 85,000 is a problem, when the U.K. population is about 62 million. My calculator makes this (rounded up): 0.14%.

Don't build new roads because they soon fill with cars and don't build new prisons as they're soon filled with criminals.

The RSPB should be onto this if they were half genuine in their claim to be acting in the interest of Birds, I believe that several birds of prey have already been killed by wind farms in Scotland. However,as an integral part of the overall eco-scam illusion they say nothing to upset their many fully paid up eco-fascist supporters.

The RSPB is only against projects like the Severn Barrage because when the Corporate Nazi's have fuel taxed out the low income indigenous estuary locals, the wealthy eco-fascists will move in and trap wildfowl to eat among themselves while those in towns starve because due to wind farms there is no reliable power for refrigeration. Tough for small high street shops especially, although the big supermarkets will probably bring in diesel generators.

#24 No mim I don't mean JJ/Stat etc. I wouldn't know him if he stood next to me, who does know anyone on these blogs, I certainly don't. Only if I look at their personal websites.

The situation of the goverment wants to cut down on services , yet they are getting leniant with prisoners , well we can help the criminals by making them work such as they do in america , chain gangs, or another way of looking at it getting them to learn from there wrongs to the general public.

Overflowing prison system: Build more prisons. do what the Arizona prison governor does; erect more tents and be elected by the community annually. What is the root cause of crime; criminals? it all starts at home; the family unit; now gone. If children are taught from an early age to be decent, honest, moral; taught manners then there is the root to a decent society. Many criminals; it is reported rely on drugs; then catch those who push drugs and with draconian punishments; I mean physical punishments; punis them and make an example of them to all who would push drugs. Britain today is too soft on crime; led by weak politicians who are servants to Brussels; faceless beaurocrats who hide behind closed doors. The British public want punishment; not political excuses...."prisons overflowing; let's let them out early". what tripe; what cowardice; what a failure of government both in the past and now today as a former old Tory waffles on the subject; antagonising the public who want real punishments for real crimes. It is reported today on the TV that a prisoner costs the nation £32,000- a year to keep; why? make them work to pay for their prison accomodation; chain gangs; cleanin the sewers; the road gutters and under stern supervision; make them work; make them sweat and make them appreciate it does not pay to break the law; teach them skills; teach them to work for a living and teach them that they must be part of a civilised society. The Arizona prison governor said that the Brits just have got it wrong; human rights; break the law; you ain't got any.

is the link below anything to do with you, fancy dandy lousy housey mousey??

I don't know what Ken is thinking about either. Saving money would be my favourite suggestion.

I do wonder about these very short sentences though, if they're given three months, they must only serve 6 weeks or so, a bit silly really. I think it would be more useful to set these people to work, there's plenty of roadside verges need cleaning of rubbish, and old people could have their gardens tidied and painting done. And might even give some an incentive to get up each morning and go to work, instead of thinking of the next criminal act. Although it's nowhere near as exciting as crime I don't suppose.

Another way to hit criminals is heavy fines, so that they don't profit from their illgotten gains, especially drug dealers.

Rwanda; why didn't the west intervene; because there was no OIL. Yugoslavia; concentration camps; why didn't the West intervene earlier; because there was no OIL. How can so called civilised leaders just stand on the sidelines as genocide takes place? because their is nothing in it for them. We all live on the same bit of rock; we have nowhere else to go for a long time and yet in the 21st century murder; genocide and evil crimes still continue to happen; while the West looks on.

I want to know just what we are supposed to make in the private sector; manufacturing has all but gone; killed to a large extent by the former government with its B.S. beaurocratic legislation; health and safety; European legislation; all designed to ensure that running a small business fails and costs a packet. Wherever I look today; the only businesses in the private sector are Cleaners; window cleaners; carpet cleaners; cooker cleaners; low skilled servie jobs. So...what on earth are school leavers doing; do they want to get their hands dirty; no, of course not; Uni....is the way to go; so what do they do after Uni; those who do not drop out? does anyone know; because I certainly do not. China has crippled the West with; first volume sales; not particularly good quality some 20 years ago; but now with generally good quality goods; made with cheap labour; little of no health and safety and unimaginabl volume sales at unbelievably low unimaginable net prices. So how on eath is Britain going to compete again. I don't know; do you?

"So far Jean claude doesn't how he was conceived.. " Real quality journalism there... well half a million people now know he is the son of a rapist. Nice one.

#27

Well, ecolizzy, what's made me suggest the above is the fact that you used to exchange friendly views with jj who I suspect now writes under the pseudonim of mindys_housemate among a few others like singie(bs), the chemist experimenter.

mim

STIMULATION PACKAGE

Perhaps I am out of touch, but Emily seemed animated, ebullient, vibrant, dynamic and excitable tonight. Has she been told her job is on the line, and this (plus cleavage peeping over scarlet) is her response?

No relevance to news, of course. But current affairs?

What will Ken do with this lot....



....now there's an interesting thought. Send them home with a goody bag of £5000 each?!

PALACE OF WESTMINSTER'S COURT JESTER

Bunter Clarke is a clown of the first water.

Too too droll that he made reference to Victorian prison policy. HE SHOULD KNOW!

ARE YOU THINKING WHAT I'M THINKING?

Shock - horror!

Goldsmith might have been influenced! We shall find out next that politicians routinely cheat and lie, then where will we be?

ENGLAND?

#39 barriesingleton

"Goldsmith might have been influenced! We shall find out next that politicians routinely cheat and lie, then where will we be?"

Well we won't be in a National Socialist dictatorship as your old pal jaded_jean/statist would prefer and do you know I think the ninety nine odd per cent who voted for democratic parties at the general election wouldn't want that.

I don't have the slightest idea how you vote but BNP politicians (people jaded_jean wanted to get more coverage) tend to get arrested for things like threatening to kill their party leader, allegedly, in rows over expenses and party policy. Collett his name was the ex-publicity officer.

Democracy corrects the inevitable errors over time.

#23 kevseywevsey

So you ARE the cookieducker.

Gosh that means though you are a nationalist who is sensitive about being described as BNP - but like "the Griff" - you were quite happy to converse with jaded_jean who used to rant on about national Socialism.

I seem to recall a lovely piece where you said fawning things and jaded_jean said "the country is not ready for me yet".

That is funnier than the cerebral explanation offered that the Holocaust "was made up to put people off statism".

The profound thoughts of the far right .... are there any?

I think not on balance.

Brossen99:

The R.S.P.B. is well aware of the swirling death machines:

strugglingtostaycalm #42

I suppose its a bit like the RSPB and the smaller hawk problem, Peregrines and Sparrow hawks take many small song birds yet remain protected. The ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ ( bird in the nest ) once even filmed a peregrine bring a thrush back to its nest ( quickly cut the shot when they realised the brown thing was not the only claimed prey pigeon ). We have a breeding pair of peregrines in the quarry less than a mile from us, until their arrival there were plenty of thrushes about but we never see any now.

Plenty of Blackbirds around though, perhaps because they are black the hawks think that they are crows, hawks never mix it with crows. Now someone has written an article alleging that deer kill small birds because they eat the undergrowth in forests. I suggest that a more accurate analogy is that due to lack of cover Sparrow hawks can kill more efficiently with less effort in open forests.

There is patently a conflict of interest on Hawk policy at the RSPB, perhaps they protect hawks at all cost because they know full well they kill the small song birds their members join to theoretically save. Less small song birds means more potential members and in the the true " Corporate Nazi " charity tradition, the ongoing financial position of the organisation takes precedence over the truth as regards public policy. Similarly I suspect that the core RSPB fully paid up members ( especially the wealthier ones who make big donations ) have eco-fascist leanings, therefore opposing wind farms is probably not a sustainable financial option for the RSPB.

'Earlier today

A newspaper has claimed cuts announced in the Budget could lead to the loss of up to 1.3 million jobs by 2015.

That's a bit coy. Which paper could it be? Surely not one with a bit of a conflict of interest readership and ad budget wise?

With ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ LauraK subsequently tweeting: 'Treasury confirms Guardian leak was genuine but was a draft made before the elex and the figs on private sector job losses were wrong', I am wondering if there might be a welcome return in some media quarters to their famous 'watertight oversight' one day, to avoid rushing to headlines with opinionsasnews based on, well, not much worth a darn.

As it seems to preoccupy some:



Great for game shows. Rather odd on blog threads, though.

HAGUE DECLARES 'GREATER BRITISH INFLUENCE IN EUROPE'

His WWI 'namesake', had that idea, and made 'quite an impression' on a lot of British lives.

Hague is just 'our Bill' and we shall certainly have to pay - always do.

'AT THE HEART OF EUROPE'?

I think he will find we are doomed to remain the BACKSIDE of Europe*.

* Whatever 'Europe' is.

Brightyangthing

Talking of googling:



Indeed. It can be such a bore. And the more they (supposedly men) try the worse it gets. They can't force synchro, it needs to come from within and be mutual. Like most living organisms, we are prone to evolutiionary refinement. It can't be helped or learned as it's subject to a particular kind of mutual reciprocating sensitivity. A particular couple either have it or not. Simple. Otherwise he or she is forever deprived of it.

The above is what I posted directly as a response. Unfortunately, I had an accident last Sunday, not that it's changed me in any way.

mim

#46

singie & Mr Hague

Isn''t it time for an inspiring exchange between the European /if not all the williing world nations/ for the sake of taking a further step in the evolution of the history of mankind?

mim

P.S. Please do not confuse the above with sex.

gango:
Never denied the cookieducker...he is me. And if you looked carefully you may have even seen him on the box recently...playing a Tele.

Anyhows, you wrote this:

"That is funnier than the cerebral explanation offered that the Holocaust "was made up to put people off statism"..."

Not sure if your accusing me of that statement.
Clearly your big on the NN blog archive. Can you put on the white gloves and pull that one up for me. I can't recall I ever said I denied the holocaust.
Gango, why are you preoccupied with former posters such as jaded jean and what they've written? When you go out with friends (assuming you've got friends)..Do you talk about the Nazies and the Griffin whilst ordering a meal or getting a round of drinks in? Your very much in danger of becoming a Billy-no-mates at this rate gango. Talking about the horrors of Nazi Germany and its ever present danger of returning can pass the lips of many on occasions but daily comments -such as your own - about this subject matter is clearly in the realm of the obsessive. I think I did suggest that you had a session or two with an acupunturist -to unblock your pathways so so speak. Something is just not quite right with this Nazi obsession that you've got going.

Different note and to draw you away from your ususal material gango:
what do you think of the Al Gore sex scandal unfolding over there in the old US of A?

Politically the only way to reform public pay and conditions is against a backdrop of high unemployment?

so high unemployment is a necessary condition.

Bank Crisis Book
Gordon didn't do it.

³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Big Names to reveal pay.

What an ego crusher if your name is not on the big names list and you think it should be?

#50

Ah Jaunty, but it is not the numbers being revealed, merely the ladder of the biggest recipients.

Even if it were £££££, how representative might that be if it were for example Bruce Forsyth, Jonathan Ross, Jeremy Paxman, Graham Norton, Adrian Chiles or Christine Bleakley (yeah, I know - Rats!) etc in terms of performers and if they are mixed in with the producers, directors etc.

Would one know exactly what quantity (hours per week/month/year, on screen/preparing and quality (highly subjective) that remuneration was based on?

I would honestly prefer fewer names keeping higher remuneration if it was all based on MY subjective view of worth.

RECEIVED WISDOM (#50)

We are told Gillian Tett knew - James G Brown HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING and certainly didn't know.

Tett, presumably made appropriate decisions regarding her own money? (I think we should be told.) Brown let personal debt and unregulated banking rip, right up to the precipice, embroiling the whole country.

Brown never stopped telling us he was brilliant. On the Blair-Bush scale of competence - he was. If false self-belief is culpable:

'Gordon' (aka James) REALLY DID DO IT. And now he's run away just like Tony.

#28/29: carl, considering locking people up for tiny crimes, like shoplifting, selling the odd bit of dope etc can destroy entire lives, not only because the tiny-offender then goes into a crime-university and makes new contacts and gets advice on 'better crime', but also because they will lose whatever life they have until then - home, jobs, possibly friends and family, then i would say that moving towards an approach that not only costs VASTLY less money than locking people up at almost $40,000/per annum, but ALSO vastly reduces re-offending (as the report demonstrated, using rehabilitation cuts re-offending from over 80% to less than 33%) - how can such a policy POSSIBLY be wrong?

its cheaper, works more effectively, cuts short, mid and long-term crime, reduces social dislocation and cuts down on minority-targeting.


as for "making them work" - in prisons... NO!!!! This leads to the atrocious system in the US, where multi-nats get paid to build and run prisons, magistrates get 'bonuses' for sending citizens there for stupid offences, politicians get multi-nat handouts for their election campaigns, and the multi-nats get SLAVE LABOUR they can profit from. There are hundreds of thousands in US prisons whose only crime was being caught having a joint. Now they are indentured slaves, forced to work with ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHTS.

no civilised Nation could countenance such policies. Do we REALLY want to copy the barbaric yanks?

far better to try the Oz system where offenders the magistrates think there is hope for, can meet those they transgressed against, and apologise in person, followed by various community service programs. This WORKS - if you want to have a lower crime society.

oh, and whilst we're at it, changing the Laws to remove 'victimless crimes' such as recreational drug use would vastly cut down on the amount of money wasted in such fruitless endeavors.

i am certain the Police have more socially useful things to be doing, especially with their reducing budgets, than hunting out people growing the odd cannabis plant or two, or sharing its bounty with others.

but hey - i guess i'm of the generation that believes Society should be run for the health and benefit of its Citizens, not sociopaths, profiteers or ignorant, tabloid reading imbeciles.

so sue me.


#30: ummm - no?


#32: jim, its infinitely worse than that. Plus, oil is not the *only* mineral wealth that the powerful nations will destroy weaker nations to get their hands on. Rwanda has vast mineral wealth, and whoever controls the mining and selling of those minerals will make extraordinary amounts of money.

the genocide on Rwanda was not prevented, because the Tutsi elders were preventing Western concerns from exploiting the mineral wealth. And as i said, i was given evidence that not only did the West not intervene - the West (France in particular) was actually heavily involved in the creation of the genocide.

- i thought the report was good, although in comparison to the report from the Afghan Women's prison, the voice-over ruined its impact. African languages are just as beautiful, and just as emotionally laden, as ANY languages in the World.

were i to have written the script, i would also have compared the reactions, and emotional maturity of the Rwandan women we saw, with the post-war Swedish reaction to the half-German children born during WW2. Even though many of those children, unlike in Rwanda, were NOT results of rape, the State removed them from their families and locked them up. There is still an innate bias in Western Media to regard Africans as somehow 'inferior' to the West - yet in so many ways they are more advanced than we are.

#33: cars (see new model from Tues), trains, airships; long-distance low-loss electricity cable (to export as well), high bandwidth fibre optic cable to every home, wind-turbines, create a UK PC manufacturer for low-power-usage PCs, high quality repairable HI-FI, organic permaculture food.

that's at least a million new jobs right there, mainly in new sectors, only requiring short to mid-term investment by the Govt. They will knock-on employ millions of others through services required.

there is VAST amounts the UK could be producing - if we weren't ruled by incompetents who have a hard-on for letting the multi-nationals make EVERY economic decision taken in this country.

#36: i think that went down as one of Emily's current top 10 favourite shows. That interview with the Prison's Minister was a pure joy, and she did it perfectly. :D


lols@#39!


#48: ♥♫♥


#50/#51: a step in the right direction. Still a ways to go though, imho. Full transparency will do wonders for public confidence.

DIEGO MARADONA v Dr DAVID KELLY

No contest. Priorities dear boy - priorities!