³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

Is The BIN TAX Really Dead ?

Just the other day in PMQ's David Cameron proclaimed that the much despised Labour bin tax proposal was dead. However, if this claim is genuine how can Eric Pickles promise new investment in potentially expensive in first cost but also in running, plans to weigh and reward people with more recycling in their bin.

Not really a green idea at all if it promotes perhaps unnecessary consumption of anything, but perhaps the easiest way for anyone to benefit is to organise parties and consume copious quantities of alcohol. Plenty of weight to add with empty wine and spirit bottles, empty ale cans, who knows the poor could even benefit if the went around collecting all the bottles and cans from street litter bins. Anyway there must be a conflict of interest when it comes to the governments aspiration to reduce binge drinking.

Anyway Pickles's scheme is almost as much a green scam as the original bin tax instead, the whole object of the exercise being to provide a virtual welfare state for the private companies likely to be brought in to introduce and then expensively administer for the duration of a probable PFI contract. Where are WE going to get the money from, and even if it is technically private investment , our economy can simply not afford to fund yet another seam of non productive office workers and associated ten bob fat cat executives.

Of course the costs and alleged rewards will go on the council tax or cut front line services in other key departments. The whole scheme is totally unworkable, and after a couple of years time when the council changes party control they will have all the infrastructure to introduce the BIN TAX after all.

THE SOUND OF ONE MILIBAND CLAPTRAPPING

That consummate Zen Master, Limited Ed Miliband, explained this morning (with a sprinkling of oiky glottal stops) that Labour were not brought down through PERSONALITIES but by policies. His string of non-sequiturs, leading nowhere, proved that this particular personality, elevated by the said Labour Party, if made leader, will have no difficulty bringing it down, again, BY SHEER FORCE OF 'PERSONALITY'.

Ed is the disaster of party politics, encapsulated in one pathetic, nutty nutshell. Yet another WW.

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

"HOW CAN ERIC PICKLES" (#1)

So far as I know, Bro, no question beginning: "How can Eric Pickles" has ever been intelligibly answered.

In passing: Some Co-op boss, on Radio, just trumpeted THEIR ethics, followed by the assertion that they HAVE TO be competitive with (low) alcohol prices.

Shurly shome mishtake?

On the World Cup it passed off without any major crime or terrorist incidents and was a joy for the country, continent and world.

That's good and perhaps this will start the national momentum that will see many more of those in their poverty zone getting out of shanties and into houses.

I think most will be looking at Blatter and hoping he goes as his decisions on refereeing technology and the ball were a disaster.

There should be goal line and red card technology to cut down on the cheating.

On the NHS my immediate concern is that if the GP's are all doing different things then on the one hand it may be easier to experiment and progress the NHS as a whole and on the other hand we may get post code lotteries where some do very well in one area and so on.

I assume there will be a few more weeks of the media presenting the Labour narrative that 600% of Lib Dem voters have decided to move their vote over to the Tories.

Nobody wants cuts but if people are really moving over my guess is that it is temporary.

Even Labour deep down know that they contributed very generously to the crisis and as the financial reforms in the US don't look anything like watertight does anybody want to go down this road again?

I think not.

It's about time too that all the red tape and admin rubbish was cut out, and the money saved actually be spent on patients!

Mandela remains one of the most popular people in the world amongst all races as we saw at the World Cup.

Those people that are racists, such as the BNP, have little popularity in the UK public, are unknown abroad and even in their own ranks are unpopular.

Griffin had to go to the police to report that his BNP publicity officer Collett was allegedly threatening to kill him in a dispute over policy and expenses.

It says so much that the champagne National Socialist Griffin is barely worth the contempt that his views deserve whilst the views of Mandela, even now in his twilight years, are earnestly considered.

Collett thought AIDS was a good disease because it killed blacks and gays.

Mandela campaigns to educate on HIV and to bring it under control.

The darkness simply emphasizes the light.

#2 barriesingleton

"Ed is the disaster of party politics, encapsulated in one pathetic, nutty nutshell. "

Whilst your old pal the poster jaded_jean, advocate of National Socialism, remains high in your opinion as you mentioned the other week!

Hmmm....

Will this be included in your discussions about the NHS. Will British patients be able to sue the NHS if they are killed or injured by an incompetent nurse, or is it only when a doctor commits the crime.

BOMB THE POLICY - NOT THE PERSONALITY.

All parties trumpet the mantra: IT'S THE POLICIES STUPID! By inference, they insist that delusional, Messianic leaders are OK if the policies are right.

It follows that I have been in error about bombing Johnnie Foreigner - all the time WE enlightened Brits were bombing his POLICIES! Killed JFs are ALL collateral damage with reference to 'killed' policies. But the Yanks don't understand. They keep killing 'Terrorist Leaders' when they should be targeting Terror Policies!

Ask any Priggy-Boy Gove think-tank of wise kids; ask Two Brains Willetts; the truth is out there.

Policies rule OK?

In my #6 I say "move the vote over to the Tories" when I meant Labour of course.

My point being that there will be uncertainty and discontent over the cuts and the job losses amongst the public and in Lib Dem voters - and Tories most likely.

But the options are few and Labour were always going to lay out last minute unsustainable budgets for saving fluffy kittens and to claim we could simply grow our way out of the crisis weren't they?

In fact we are still jittery about the sovereign debt crisis and the underlying problems that caused the crash - like weak regulation - were never fixed because they did not want to draw attention to the fact that the first thing they knew about the crisis was Alistair Darling reading it in the papers.

So who is to say how growth will balance out in the medium term and whether the cuts allow extra QE later in the year as seems likely.

Lib Dems activists always knew about the possibility of coalition and that may mean with partners who would try to collapse the party and lay claim to their voters like Labour or with less natural partners but where the distinct identities of the two parties are not threatened.

The country needs to be able to replace failing parties and to introduce new ideas where the old ones are failing so in the long run that means PR and transparency and accountability.

#11 barriseingleton

"All parties trumpet the mantra: IT'S THE POLICIES STUPID! By inference, they insist that delusional, Messianic leaders are OK if the policies are right."

Its worth noting that you don't want party politics and don't like Westminster much.

Therefore presumably each MP would have their own policies whilst your old pal jaded_jean the National Socialist advocate would have been encouraging the end of democracy.

Fortunately there is no political party out there who is National Socialist - the BNP are "modern and progressive". Their leader Griffin is standing down because he has too much "baggage" associated with him.

DON'T BOTHER THEY'RE HERE (#10)

Send in the clowns, eh Lizzy?

I am suddenly reminded of Mengele's experiments. Is Europe experimenting on the 'body of it's citizens' with all sorts of bizarrely conceived assaults? Is such, a known post-traumatic syndrome with a name?

"Those whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad." The mix of old, sick and vulnerable being 'cared for' by people of alien culture, first tongue and appearance, should do the trick nicely.

Message to Oliver James: ANOTHER BOOK NEEEDED.

Gango: PLEASE read carefully before being predictably obtuse.

CLIMATE IS DRIVEN BY THE SUN (#15)

But not simply by its heat. Search 'Holoscience'. Click on 'Science, Politics and Global Warming'.

Enjoy.

#14 barrie

I thought that all the potential Dr Mengele's in the UK were in line for cushy jobs with the DWP medical service allegedly competently assessing the fitness for work of those currently claiming Incapacity Benefit ?

NICE TRY BRO (:o)

I only know one other poster who can 'reconfigure' my point with such skill.

Are you old enough to remember conscription medical examinations? I fell out with the guy who looked up hundreds of rear ends per day. I have always wondered about him . . .

@ Lizzie #10 - you can sue a doctor or a nurse for negligence/malpractice. The problem with being in the EU is that Britain is unable to control its borders, and anyone from the EU is allowed to work here. I don't agree with it, but unless UKIP form the next government, we'll have to put up with it :o(
( and did you know, soon, the UK will NOT be allowed to sell eggs or bread rolls by the half dozen/ dozen? Apparently all eggs/bread etc will have to be sold by weight only!)

Okay, here is a reality check.

Our local Walk in Centre was taken over by a consortium of local GPs.

They underbid to make sure they got the contract.

The service is terribly run and is now short of money (since they under budgeted)

Nurses, who do the majority of the work, are having their hours cut dramatically. They have cut back the use of bank nurses to the bear minimum.

The remaining staff are demoralised and the waiting times have shot through the roof.

It seems that the GPs who are running this service could not manage their way out of a paper bag - and Lansley thinks they are the best people to run the NHS?

This is total folly.

In some areas you will get some really bright sparks who will run a great service - in other areas you will get a complete shambles.

Get enough really senior nurses from round the country in a room and ask them their confidential opinion of GPs.

The answers you will get will include the words Arrogant, incompetent, useless, disorganised ...

To be honest, want a great NHS?

Get the nurses to run it - but keep the GPs well away.

..Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said there were 60,000 organised groups, comprising 38,000 criminals...



not long ago NCIS did a report that there were 1600 organised crime gangs. So the leap to 60,000 is down to?

organised crime that tries to seed the chemist distribution service with fake drugs, that steals copper/lead from hospital and schools etc and never mind all the murder and torture is not treated the same as terrorism even though both wish to subvert the state. Are control orders only for 'muslims'?

if money is power then at some point an organised crime gang gets so rich it can subvert the state, courts, witnesses etc. This is why they must be targeted to stop them getting rich and thus wield power on a local level.

"Viva Espana. First Rafa Nadal wins Wimbledon, now Spain wins the World Cup. Paul Mason has been taking in the atmosphere in Barcelona [?] today and asking whether this new confidence will spill over to the ailing economy."

But surely Barcelona is in Catalonia? Remember Kirsty? City of Miralles?
Just because some high court judge in Madrid says Catalonia is no nation
it doesn't mean that Scots on loan to London should toe a referee's line!

About the NHS... does this mean that all existing contracts between PCTs and the myriad of providers (NHS Trusts, Private Sector etc) will transfer to the GPs? Does this mean that GPs will be responsible for contract monitoring the standards of care that these organisations provide? Does this mean that, to get patient choice, every GP (or GP cluster) has to have a contract with every possible provider? Won't this mean that GPs effectively cluster together and establish mini PCTs? As GPs are not part of the NHS family (they are private sector organisations),doesn't this amount to privatisation of our health service? A guy from the lib dems told 5 live that this wouldn't be a costly or complicated exercise. How not? If PCTs and SHA's are abolished all existing legislation will need to be changed but to what? To devolve the SOSH's powers to GPs instead of PCTs? Bonkers.

@ Hastings #21 - are you one of the "demoralised staff?" :p Sounds as though you are!

I sniff a wee conspiracy .... first Barca get Cruyff as coach .. he then refuses to speak to them in Catalan. Then they lose the high court vote.

But then they beat the Dutch ... win the World Cup ... and a surge of
popular street protest with vuvuzelas sweeps Catalonia on to autonomy.

And to independent status within Fifa .... which then helps Scotland
win Spain's group in the European Cup in time for a Holyrood election

Hastings: ♥

1: brossen, in DK the Govt did not remove the 10p deposit on bottles when Thatcher's Govt did, and because of that they have been recycling the majority of their bottles continuously.

do you not remember as a child returning the saved up 'pop' bottles, in order to buy a new one??

on the flip side, yes in major danish cities the poor DO go around searching the bins for bottles to return, but... so what?

the policy works as a method of reducing land-fill waste.

i haven't read the policy document yet, but if going back to deposits on bottles is part of it, at least that part seems sound.

we can't keep just burying everything in the soil, it is poisoning the entire ecosystem we are living upon. And why should future generations, with far more limited energy (until they get it sorted anyway), pay to clean up *our* waste?

lol@ #17 :)

#20 last i heard that idea had been scrapped? You would enjoy a read of James C Scott 'seeing like a state', it explains in excellent detail the mind-set of those who wish to 'standardise' *everything*, the philosophy behind it, and other areas it has been applied to with disastrous results.

#22: jounty:

"..Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said there were 60,000 organised groups, comprising 38,000 criminals..."

presumably then some gang members have memberships in multiple gangs? How 'illuminati'...

control orders good point. What would you do about the organised gangs that run the Banks?


congrats to Spain! :D

.."But this process led to highly misleading statements about the UK assessment of the Iraqi threat that were, in their totality, lies."..



Iraq Inquiry is the best tv we have at the moment. it would stun and shock even the vuvuzelas of the yaparrazzi into silence.

It cheered me up to see Jeremy on the box tonight asking questions of students. He seemed to be in a kind of reflexive mood but looked quite relaxed at the same time. Being away from Newsnight's cronies might be doing him a world of good.

As I've said before, recognition of my contributions first, then I may reconsider watching the programme again when Paxo's not on. Otherwise forget it everybody. I might as well carry on enjoying my reality based fantasy world****!!!!****!!!!****

mim

Oh dear, Kirsty again. I will watch if she stops her endless shouting at people. Did she used to teach a noisy primary class?

#30jas wrote:

'Did she used to teach a noisy primary class?'

-----------------------------

No...she used to be a sergeant major in the Blackwatch!

#28: an interesting read from the US on the same topic.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE BRITISH MATHIA?

60,000 gangs - 38,000 gangsters - that's a little over half a gangster per gang. Have I missed something?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

MH #27

I was brought up in a corner shop in the 1960 and lived there right through to 1985. As I remember it the pop ( Tizer ) companies changed to plastic disposable because they were cheaper overall than taking the empties back and washing them to adequate hygiene standards. Nothing to do with government just simple economics and the increasing cost of road fuel also played a part, not very economic running a small vehicle.

Most corner shops got supplied by cash and carry, where they could deliver part of a 32 ton artic load, that's how the supermarkets kept their prices down. People were buying most of their pop in cans anyway since the introduction of the " ring pull " no need to use an opener. Most of the cans were steel then, and then because the tidy Aussies were swallowing the ring they had put in the can they developed the current design and moved onto all ally cans from about 1987.

As for the waste problem the obvious practical solution is incineration, which with the latest flue gas scrubbing technology produces hardly any pollution at all apart from the ash. As a bonus you can get cheap electricity and if the incinerator is in a rural area free heat for glasshouses to grow stuff currently flown in. Of course the eco-fascists have done their level best to prevent any real progress in that direction. I suppose that you will be against incineration due to the fact you would appear to be suffering from a pretty large dose of the infectious eco-fascism brainwashing over the past 20 years.

As for the current plastic bottles they could work out more energy efficient than even returning via the supermarket transport chain and washing. Its just a waste of the energy contained in the plastic to throw it in landfill. We religiously sort out plastic glass and metal into a separate bin yet it all goes in the same hole in the back of the bin wagon if you see them. The market for recycled stuff has collapsed, they were sending the plastic to China as cheap fuel anyway, more the fools us for not using it here. As for glass most people want clear which can't use recycled stuff. Just to add insult to the environmental injury they are using more fuel to grind it back into the worlds most potentially expensive sand. The only thing actually worth recycling are the ally cans, I believe that you could get 1 cent each in Aussie as long ago as 1987, it was not unknown to see people sifting through public bins just to earn a bit extra.

#28 JC

Nothing new there JC.

Remember that great piece of interrogative journalism when Fern Britton interviewed Blair late last year?

She actually got him to admit that it was all cooked up!

Tony Blair admits: I would have invaded Iraq anyway


...and Fern's probably only paid a tiny fraction of what 'Paxo-the-Great' is paid!

Am presently watching Newsnight, what kind of fashion is that, the skirt is very disturbing.
My wife pointe it out to me that even her audience of Dr. are giggling at her out fit.
Please that skirt is scary,dangling like a "native masquerade skirt" from Calabar Nigeria.

Kirsty - What were you thinking when you put that skirt on ?

THE PROBLEM WITH IDEAS-MEN

The top tier of politicians have 'great ideas'. Just like inventors, they then fall in love with their idea, AND CANNOT BE SHAKEN FROM IT. Inventors lose their shirts, chasing their dream; of course, the shirt politicians lose - IS OURS!

Until we get genuine wisdom into our governance, the circus will continue. You know how to get wise MPs don't you? No - not 'put your lips together and blow' - SPOILPARTYGAMES.

As for giving responsibility, in health matters, to local authorities: not with the current level of competence P-lease! Some silly woman sent a letter concerning my recently-dead brother's house, TO MY SON, AT MY SON'S ADDRESS. When challenged, she said it was the only address she had. She had found it on a defunct Power of Attorney document! I HAVE LIVED HERE FOR 10 YEARS and pay my Council Tax regularly. This is not a woman I want near my health provision – even with some sort of degree (apparently).

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

WHAT WAS KIRSTY'S SKIRT MADE OF?

Might it be of some use in the Gulf of Mexico? Or Haiti perhaps?

THE PROBLEM WITH IDEAS-MEN

The top tier of politicians have 'great ideas'. Just like inventors, they then fall in love with their idea, AND CANNOT BE SHAKEN FROM IT. Inventors lose their shirts, chasing their dream; of course, the shirt politicians lose - IS OURS!

Until we get genuine wisdom into our governance, the circus will continue. You know how to get wise MPs don't you? No - not 'pucker up and blow' - SPOILPARTYGAMES.

As for giving responsibility, in health matters, to local authorities: not with the current level of competence P-lease! My Council sent a letter concerning my recently-dead brother's house, TO MY SON, AT MY SON'S ADDRESS. When challenged, they said it was the only address they had. They had found it on a defunct Power of Attorney document! I HAVE LIVED HERE FOR 10 YEARS and pay my Council Tax regularly. This is not a Council I want near my health provision.

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

Mistress76uk wrote:

@ Hastings #21 - are you one of the "demoralised staff?" :p Sounds as though you are!

I am not personally, however I know several who are, one closely, and it is a ridiculous situation.

Ref 40 and 35 "WHAT WAS KIRSTY'S SKIRT MADE OF?"

It looked like the middle bit cut out of a giant plastic bottle. Maybe that's what Blue Peter were up to today. With some paper wrapped round her feet and some rubbish jokes, she would be a real cracker!

Oh Kirsty

Please watch the VT back carefully, then go out and buy yourself some nice black trousers.

Then possibly your guests and your audience will begin to be taken seriously.

NHS
We have a great GP, with a variety of add on services, well managed (from what I can see) practice including a locally recruited manager paid from practice funds.

Translate that into a bigger district wide operation and most likely the good will be diffused and diluted. As it always is. Not sure this is the answer. Now, what was the question?

Had a few too many expereiences of BIGGGGGGGGGGGG hopitals recently. Not good. Not good at all. The needs of the consumer (sorry, patient) is all too easily curtained off and ignored.


#35 Brossen
Incineration. Bravo!

Not fully up on the recent developments but this does seem to be an improving technology with positive and useful fall out. BUT, I do think the GBP at large like anything that is
a) visible
b) in their back yard
c) burns

Don't all hospitals have to have high functioning incinerators and very high heating bills?
Two birds????????????????

#44

birds and 'attachments'..

****

I'm thrilled you've written again after whatever you've been up to, including hospitals? Hope you're fine, Brightyangthing.

Breakfast time, will write to you again a bit later!!!!

mim

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

NOBODY MENTIONED THE WAR(S)!

Listening to Scary Starey Balls, ranting on about all Labour's achievements under his low-profile, guiding touch, this morning, Rip van Winkle (a close cousin) might be forgiven for thinking Labour, during their tenure, did not embroil us in any ON-GOING wars.

Once again the reality of the party political mind that functions freely in under the Westminster Ethos, is writ large. DO WE REALLY WANT SUCH BIZARRE SPECIMENS TINKERING WITH OUR LIVES?

Balls just would not admit the dysfunction of Blair-Brown-Mandelson-Campbell et al; how could he - he was signed up.

To these strange delusional aberrants, the odd war is incidental!

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

i see paul is beginning to get the hang of foreign assignments. less awayday Wigan or Riga in winter more being hugged by pretty half naked dancing spanish girls soaked in fountains after watching football.

is this a subtle shift, like a Prescott to the Lords, from roundhead working class pikeman to pleasure jet set class?

Just how Dozy is our Media

Giving the the time of day 2 nulabour, given the Mess/do do we are all in.

books coming out by nulab clowns is an utter waste of trees/bog paper

If in my travels I meet an Idiot it would be highly unlikely I would ask him/her for addVice on Anything.

I am aware of the dozy things I have dun,(have I learned from them NO/Yes) going to an illegal War and getting A Trillion in Debt would not be one or 2 of them. The Media talking 2 these Bufoons/loons informs me me that our media is as stupid as they are. EH

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

we are closing down improvements to schools and paying out two grand a month for one family in housing benefit...or did I just dream it...?

#52 Ha,ha, stevie two grand a month would be cheap, it's £2000 a week, never mind us stupid tax payers will foot the bill as usual. I wonder when the money will run out?!

can't even remember what Kirsty was wearing, her smile, attitude and intelligence tend to outweigh such frippery for me. Heard enough fertiliser from 'smart' 'besuited' types to terraform Mars though.

health care trusts - there was enough information given during the report for the health professionals to see the way forward. At the very least, most of those in the 'audience' last night began to see the possibilities.

at least - better possibilities than what the Tories intend - a privatised 'management' structure completely removed from NHS over-sight, pocketing vast sums in 'management fees' whilst having even LESS working knowledge of the needs of the patients.

- but who cares about the patients anyway, after all they are NHS, not private - so they're poor, and thus not *really* people, right??

shazbot Tories.

surely far better for the services to combine into an integrated, cooperatively-run Health-Care Trust, run by the Health Professionals, Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, Clinicians, - even Receptionists should certainly have an equal say. And, as in the example given last night - the actual Public, who in *theory* all this is for.


#35: brossen: yes, i am *VERY* uncertain about incineration - there have been serious concerns about pollution levels and adequate monitoring:






burning things, which produces further pollution, instead of employing people to recycle, and putting in incentives to use the recycled products, is simply not the best method. I would agree that with proper over-sight, non-corporate ventures *might* be worthwhile, but NOT when there is a profit motive for covering up leaks and reducing safety.

i would prefer to evolve to a social system where every stage of production, reuse, and disposal are integrated. Vehicles, as you said, that are repairable and customisable, instead of coming as integrated units that are only disposable. Measures like Volkswagen's 'lifetime' warranty, where the company takes the car back at the end of its life and has the responsibility to dispose well.

we need to stop looking at the biosphere as a "free resource", and realise it is the entire basis for our civilisation - and survival.

for most of human history, the majority of the population have always wanted to leave a better future for their children and grandchildren - 'we' seem only concerned with getting as much as possible NOW, and damn the consequences for the future.

imagine a world without oil (or very little) - how would you design an integrated, sustainable economy, that raises living standards for all, whilst also improving the potential futures for offspring?

this is the question an intelligent species would be asking itself now, not whatever "quick fix" can be arranged in order to maintain the status quo for as long as possible.

#44: unaccountable bureaucracies often forget what they are SUPPOSED to be doing. The bigger the organisation, generally the less accountable the bureaucracy gets. See "Whitehall", "Downing Street", or "Westminster".

#49: jaunty,

"i see paul is beginning to get the hang of foreign assignments. less awayday Wigan or Riga in winter more being hugged by pretty half naked dancing spanish girls soaked in fountains after watching football."

---so do i detect a note of jealousy in your typing?? :P ;D

MH #54

Your eco-fascist propaganda links are years out of date, there are no dioxins emitted with the latest flue gas technology, anything nasty is locked inside the ash and rendered harmless. We had this back in the mid 1990s when the local cement works started burning print waste solvents, far more potentially toxic than household waste. The local air quality was really poor, although just how much of the problem was due to burning low grade imported coal was debatable. I became a member of a local anti-pollution group, and attended the final meeting with the company and HMIP to agree to fit a flue gas scrubber. Things improved vastly ( but they also started using clean UK coal again ) we have had no problems ever since as all the sulphur is also removed, before the air smelt like someone overcharging a battery in some local weather conditions. Of course the eco-fascists in said pollution group were not satisfied as they wanted to close the cement works all along. I believe that if you were exposed to the true science you would drop any of your concerns about waste incineration.

OK - it is true that my last perusal of incineration was some years ago, i am largely unaware of recent innovations in 'scrubbing'.

however, and i AM certain this is the case, without proper strict monitoring, unannounced inspections etc, i simply wouldn't trust corporate raiders to run such operations. It has been noticed for many years, that when the costs of maintaining stringent controls are higher than the costs of legal actions for any discovered breaches, that rarely do corporates bother with maintaining standards.

BP has been the VERY notable exception to that rule, and i am still open-minded about there being 'deeper' actions behind what we have seen on the tube.

other countries/cities have managed to set-up and maintain superb recycling facilities, i wonder why this, along with so many other simple things, are so far beyond the second-rate politicians we have to put up with in the UK.

MH #56

A pollution monitoring station was built at the bottom of our village playing field as part of the deal for fitting the flue gas scrubber on said cement works. Apart from annual village bonfire night ( the bonfire was built less than 100 yards from the monitoring station ) it recorded nothing significant for years until it was closed down as pointless. Our village is about a mile and a half from said cement works down prevailing wind.