成人论坛

Yessss....

All that's topical in the news today, and you want to discuss... Britishness.

Can see where those vast ratings come from now.

May give it a miss.

ps: Newsynightie, try not to get old.

It was the predeliction of Mrs Thatcher to use Scotland as a lab rat for her policies that eventually led to the Scottish wanting devolution. Now it will be the deeply unpopular policies north of the border of the ConDems following the collapse of New Labour because of the credit crisis that is driving the Scots into the arms of the SNP.

We really ought to realise what a total disaster Scottish independence would be for the rump of the UK. Overnight we'd lose our status as a major fossil fuel producer so there'd be a run in Sterling and without the centre-left politics of Scotland, England would have a hard wired Tory majority and there would really be no reason for the Welsh & N.Irish to be willing to put up with the dictats and libertarian dogman of the English Tories.

Cameron & Clegg may love their orgy of libertarian policies - the question is whether they are really worth destroying the United Kingdom for?

I'm of the opinion that their economic strategy is going nowhere and if they press ahead and take 拢1 Tn of aggregate demand out of the economy and tip the UK into an Eire-style recession, this will but the seal on Scotland leaving the UK.

Cameron, Clegg, Osborne & Cable etc will have a clear legacy - the men who consigned us to a generation of economic collapse, the destruction of the United Kingdom and the Tory slog of "Broken Britain" will become "Disunited Kingdom".

"...we're exploring different attitudes towards the notions of Britishness and national identity.."

What!? Again?

Devolution (differential representation) - supported by the Conservative Party - places English constituencies at the lowest level of a four tier voting system. It is breaking up the United Kingdom, it is in-equitable and expensive. Devolution must be repealed and a Common Representation Act introduced (common powers, practice and procedure for all United Kingdom constituencies). commonrepresentation.org.uk the UK's leading anti-devolution website.

Richard at 2 wrote:
"Cameron, Clegg, Osborne & Cable etc will have a clear legacy - the men who consigned us to a generation of economic collapse, the destruction of the United Kingdom and the Tory slog of "Broken Britain" will become "Disunited Kingdom".

Some may call that rewriting history. Maybe it was the policies of Labour that left Britain in near economic collapse- and of which a collapse could still happen; just waiting on the Euro to fail.

As for Scottish nationalism. Wasn't the retelling of the exploits of William Wallace in the Mel Gibson Braveheart flick responsible for rekindling Scotlands independence?
Maybe I'm just an old romatic and just like to think one of my forefathers battled with the tyrannical English of old.

IF YOU CAN VISIT TROOPS WHEN ALL MEN DOUBT YOU

I echo MaggieL (#3) WHAT? AGAIN! I am beginning to wonder if visiting squaddies is another 'last refuge of a scoundrel' (Samuel Johnson).

Message to Dave: "They are doing the job they love, and in any case, in no position to tell you what they really think of you. Visit ME Dave - I'll fill in the gaps. . . You will experience the CANDOUR OF THE BIG SOCIETY"

50% WANT TO KEEP THE UNION - WHAT % HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT ACCRUES?

Why don't we have a Vox-Pop based SPECIAL (even a BOGOF) based around a survey of how many people want to see the 'Iraq War Cabal' at The Hague?

Or better still, investigate the CRIMINAL False Instrument, issued by the Conservative Party, during the 2010 election campaign, that was deployed by 8 (minimum) MPs NOW SITTING!

You want more? I have more!

Jon Snow is very upset about rogue landlords and people living in sheds as he told us on dispatches this evening. Well maybe if the immigration policy that the liberals forced on the rest of us hadn't happened, maybe people won't be paying rent for living in sheds at the bottom of peoples gardens. Why is it liberals never see the consequence of their actions? I know this is Channel 4 output but the topic on tonights dispatches is the gorilla in the washroom but we are stilli ignoring it.

why did we go overboard on the coverage of Reagans statue? Have we forgotten Grenada and his gunghoism behind Maggies back...shurely not...

The previous Pope to this latest one got shot in St Peter's Square and he received a call from Ronald Reagan who had also been shot, Ronnie said to him, 'I hear you have been shot, do you know that I got shot too' The Pope listened and after a few seconds Ronnie said....'it doesn't half hurt doesn't it'......

"We'll analyse the findings of a survey which found that almost 50% of voters in England want Scotland to remain part of the UK "

50% of the massive 864 people, Wow!

& on that basis the 成人论坛 has cancelled Newsnight Scotland for an extended Newsnight UK to discuss Scottish Independence & Britishness.

Or is it really to get Paxmans poor ratings up?

stevie at 11:
yeah, thats very funny is that. But not as funny as that Leninist Marxist hater-of-the-US-constitiution Wall St Glove puppet sitting in the Whitehouse.

Of the two...I'd have Ronnie running the shop anyday. When you get around to putting up a fence to protect your property and perhaps have a family..you'll understand what Old Ronnie was all about.

If you are not a liberial at 20 you have no heart; if your not a Condervative at 40 you have no brains..or a house or a family or a shed. Anyhow there you go Stevie. A little experience can go a long way. Let us know how you get on Lol xx

@ Stamp #12 - From that Daily Mail article, it clearly states [for Jeremy's viewing figures] "According to the BARB ratings, his grumpy image remains most popular with viewers. One edition he hosted in June pulled in an audience of 986,000." :p Kind of disproves that theory.

Around 50% of people from England do not want their Country to break up, nothing wrong in that, and I wish it was more. Many of us have roots from the deep West Country, North East of England, Central and Highlands of Scotland. many of us want our natural British identity even if their heritage is just from one part of England. I do not really identify with being English. It's fair enough if people want to be Scottish, English, even Yorkshiremen, Geordies, and so on. That's fine, but don't call me English, as my nationality is of the Briton, just as an American is, and a German is. Some may see themselves as Californian, or Bavarian as well as. The SNP vote is complex, and a natural vote for Scotland if the three stupid parties are failing, lack ambition for our Country (UK), if it looks like we are on a downward negative spiral, and the politicians seem content with not reversing decline. We do not need Derby decisions, where our firms are losing out to foreign firms, and our own government is letting us down as it's supposidly better value for the taxpayer, which is rubbish. Apart from the independence thing, some of the snp's policies seem ok. If they had candidates in some areas in England, I'm sure they would get votes. I be tempted if we did not have UKIP to vote for. That's who people in Scotland need to be voting for, like all of us.

It's not the British people who have created this situation, but politicians (created by us as far as voting for unfit redundant pro eu (snp are pro eu) parties). If we look at our problems, we have all been had by politicians, be it in Glasgow, Sheffield, or Leeds it's all the same. Maybe some UK governance from Holyrood would be refreshing for Britain. The break up of our Country would be the most stupid, shameful, sad, humiliating thing we could experience. It would be nothing short of heartbreaking.

Coming from a colonial family - English, Scots and Irish embracing a 100 year history in India and Burma - the idea that the English have not had an identity whereas the Scots have, is totally ludicrous.

All Britons have over many years selected their identity according to need - British one moment, Scots the next.

People forget too that to be English WAS to be British - the two words were interchangeable, and the Scots used that too. ALL my ancestors from across the Isles have called themselves English during the days of the Empire without batting an eyelid.

Listening to the debate tonight (and heartily discarding the ridiculous ideas of the Isolationist and unwelcoming English Democrats) it is, as usual, a pundits forum and so much of what is being said bares no relation to the history and society of the ordinary person, the Briton who was the backbone of the Empire and is the ordinary voter now, be they be English, Irish, Scots or Welsh - or from any other part of our old Empire.

Great Briton earned its "great" through working with common purpose. Breaking up the Union does not build on that, it almost spits in the face of it.

And a final word to the SNP - Britishness was NEVER about arrogance and Empire and all those things - that is a corruption of real down-on-the-ground ideas that real people did, not idiot politicians.

I watched the broadcast and I have to say I found (again) Jeremy Paxman's attitude quite objectionable. He is rude, first and foremost. I don't believe he let the SNP representative finish ONE thought. I wish they had allowed someone else less biased and prejudiced handle the topic. Maybe then we would have heard some truth spoken there.

By the way, that lady is not representative of Scottish attitudes. Regardless of your opinion on Independence, her continual negative outbursts about Englishness and English/British Identity and history was painfully embarrassing to watch and not shared among us all.

Why were the peripheral participants in the discussion about Britishness decorated with splodges of bright red light? Was it to remind us of the red in older atlases denoting the Empire on which the sun never set? Or an indication of danger to come? Or just incompetent lighting?

Excellent debate on the Milly Dowler phone hacking case by Jeremy tonight. Interesting discussion on an independent Scotland/British identity too.

'Great Briton earned its "great" through working with common purpose. Breaking up the Union does not build on that, it almost spits in the face of it.'

Great Britain. The Union was formed to enforce that the Hanoverian German George remained on England's throne. Period. Scotland has been used and abused long enough. Scots nearly always get the dregs of the South's leavings. Enough is enough. Scotland will do very well outside the Union.

I was born in England of Welsh and English parents and have lived in north east England for 35 years, having migrated from the midlands. I am not proud to be English. The class system in England sustains a deep rooted inequality which holds the country back socially and economically. The English love to hate those who are not, fuelled by the rantings of the likes of the Daily Mail. To me St George's and the Union flag are offensive, both having been hijacked by the BNP and their evil views. I admire the Scottish and the Welsh cultures; for me they are more egalitarian than English culture, if such a thing exists! History aside, the north east would be better off pitching in with Scotland as the policies of Westminster governments of all complexions have disenfranchised swathes of northern England with their London and home counties bias.

I wish Kirsty Wark would've presented tonight special on Scottish independence..it may have been more fun...and I do like the woman ..its all about self interest at heart eh.

I don't think any of that made much sense..but there you go, its staying. Can't see the mod pulling that one up and tossing it into the naughty bin.

Where did you get your audience from by the way? Do they have to get passed the casting couch first or what? I would've loved to have sat in on that process!

PUNDITS ALL - BUT NOT AN OLOGIST TO BE HEARD

One more time: HomSap, manifestly, lived through a formative period in which isolated groups were the norm - this gave rise to the dramatically different shapes and colours. HomSap is mostly animal in attributes; animals mistrust the strange or different. Further, why would homogenous groups need to develop tolerance?

Being the 'Ape Confused by Language', we have persuaded ourselves that DIFFERENCISM is wrong (vis High Priest Portillo) but while one might make a CEREBRAL case for this, VISCERALLY, differencism lies deep in our ANIMAL BEING. It cannot be 'stamped out'.

In unstressed times, mixing AT A SLOW RATE, can be achieved with minimum angst, but in this Age of Perversity, short on wisdom and heavy on Mammon, technology and the profit motive have seen fit to mix a powder keg (ironically, gun powder is a mix of black, yellow and white) that will ignite when the social 'temperature' rises under stress.

The only mixed communities that might survive severe stressing, would be made up of a majority of mature, stable individuals, living in an alcohol-free society, governed by the wisest and most altruistic of all. In reality, what we have is a society suffused with alcohol and perversity; juvenile in the extreme, and governed by self-serving ninnies, with neither integrity, insight nor vision.

I don't think any of this came over in the studio . . .

COLOUR PREJUDICE (#19)

The cash-rich 成人论坛 is wild for false colour. Check the video walls (Politics Show also).
When the Pope visited us, he spent a few oversized days on the wall, with a red forehead (that same red) and a red palm. Green also features strongly.

It's an art thing - like the intrusive, incongruous music.

WESTMINSTER IS APPALLED BY TABLOID DIRTY TRICKS!

This is beyond irony. MPs, routinely, enact, condone or connive at, the transgression of virtually every Deadly Sin and Commandment in the book.

Of course, every time Westminster, or one of its tentacles, chooses to trick, cheat or manipulate us, it is always pronounced NOT IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST to disclose or investigate.

Does anyone doubt Westminster is TABLOID GOVERNMENT? Devoid of conscience. The similarity between vacuous-sound-bite-politics and lurid-headline-sales, is all too obvious.

Again I say (because my comment was held back for some unknown reason) that Mr. Paxman's handling of the guests was too abrupt. The SNP representative was not allowed to finish even one statement without being interrupted or cut off. I wish another moderator had handled that segment.

@nicol: 'By the way, that lady is not representative of Scottish attitudes. Regardless of your opinion on Independence, her continual negative outbursts about Englishness and English/British Identity and history was painfully embarrassing to watch and not shared among us all.'

But it is certainly shared by a majority of Scots.

Why would the Scots want to divide from the English? Our forefathers punched each other silly 'til they realised it was totally stupid and decided things would work better as friends.

Now 'king' Salmond and his idealistic cronies want to divide us again in their own personal quest for power.

How many times has nationalism led to division and bloodshed? When will they ever learn?

Scotland could do with a wee bit of pride in being Scottish. There is no pride and I say that it was done purposefully, by Great Britain, to assure that there would never again be a Scotland or a Scottish identity. Well they were wrong, and now it's come full circle.

I didn't watch Newsnight last night when I saw you were going to gorge yourselves on another anti-Rupert Murdoch extravaganza followed by that old favourite "What is Britishness?"

The hacking story is on the 成人论坛 front page this morning: "...allegations...claims....
Guardian has claimed... allegations...claims.....Guardian has claimed.. ..alleged hacking ..The Guardian claims ....The Guardian also alleges ....alleged hacking....
allegations ...claims ....alleged ....allegedly ... alleged hacking .....The Guardian ...claims ....The Guardian also alleges.... alleged hacking.... allegations....claims ...
alleged ..allegedly....."

If you ever get any facts about this story I might start taking notice but in the meantime it is your, and the Guardian's, cynical use of Milly Dowler that is disgusting.

Could it happen here?

Dutch want to throw out migrant Poles who can't find a job

#32 Maggie you make some good points. Mine would be why do the 成人论坛 endlessly show photos of this pretty little girl, and films of her playing the sax, and ironing. If I were her parents it would break my heart to see my child exploited in this way. There is no need to show this at all.

It also upsets me, so STOP SHOWING MILLIE 成人论坛!

I didn't bother watching yet anothe debacl茅 on the english/scottish divide. Hundreds of thousands of scots live in england so they can't hate us that much, there appears to be many at the beeb as well.

Will we all have to have passports if this happens, will Scotland be in the Shcengan agreement, if so, will they have open borders? Will that keep the english and welsh out, and let europeans in? As happens with eng/welsh paying students, but not europeans?

I have no hatred of the scots/welsh/irish, in fact I like them, and see no need to split. By the way if the Scots party is the SNP, will the english be able to have an ENP, or will that still be racist?

As there are only 3 million welsh and 5 million scots, couldn't england always outvote them in a referendum?

And remember Cornwall also wants to devolve as well, is this what JJ was always talking about, divide and rule, balkanism??!!!

#33 Mistress I thought that if a european was unemployed for three months, without any work, they had to return home.

But I suppose I'm wrong, they now get benefits here and sent home.

I wonder why our government didn't see fit to pay the benefits, but at the rate that is paid in the workers home country, not our rate. Surely that is making big divides amongst the children of their home country. Some kids get their national benefits and some ours, odd arrangement isn't it.

The discussion on Britishness last night was quite possibly the worst conversation I've ever heard about anything.
There was little overlap in what anyone thought Britishness is, I doubt they'd have done any better with Scottishness or Englishness.
I don't think the muddling of questions of independence and national identity helps the discussion of either much.
The discussion could have done with some-one who was dismissive of national identity as a whole.
And I'd have liked it suggesting that London is more different in terms of identity from the rest of the UK than any other part of it is.

As an aside
I think it is presumptious to assume that the waters surrounding Scotland would become Scotland's to manage and collect all revenues from should the union be broken. I think we'd end up with some kind of sharing arrangement under the terms of dissolution.

I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE DEFINED BRITISHNESS WHERE NEWSYNIGHTY FAILED (#34)

Britishness is a shallow perversity, besotted with triumph of edgy style over substance, and devoid of all finer thought and feeling. Base, Besotted and Crass.

Ecolizzy is unassailably RIGHT. Stop showing the photos - better: stop feeding off the National Prurience (another mark of Britishness).

Nuff sed.

NOW LIMITED ED JOINS IN APPALLED CHORUS WITH DAVE OVER TABLOID MENTALITY

Every day is Mote and Beam Day, in the BIG BLAGGER HOUSE.

The example set by Westminster, in its craftily drawn codes of conduct, its proscribed checks and balances, it absence of independent scrutiny (no Ombudsman) and its deliberate selection of tabloid twerps (Campbell was one) to do its devious business, sets a pattern that impressionable Britons readily follow. Westminster is the problem; Dave and Ed are Westminster's finest.

Nuff sed.

'18. At 23:40 4th Jul 2011, nicol
By the way, that lady is not representative...

But she probably responded to a tweet 'seeking 'our' views, which provided views that fitted the narrative, hence making her representative.

On the tragic Ms. Dowler, that most media seem keen to get Prescott's tribal political bluster on screens shows that whatever their interests are, it is not justice for the victim. Some media twitterati have lost the plot already and are now trying to spin away from initial knee jerks to a still evolving story. If Ms. Wade was complicit, or indeed at the helm of an unfit system, she should be toast. I know that doesn't work in the case of MPs, ministers or indeed errant media types if they are 'talented'.

Meanwhile, on other matters...



It will be interested how the most recommended comment there gets put forward, discussed and 'liked' on the pages of the 成人论坛's great and good, whose pensions have probably ensured an objective viewpoint above the fray.

However, I am expecting surfboarding turtles, as 'they' know what 'we' like.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ED AT HIS MOST EDIFYING (#39+)

Ed quote: "What was the culture of this organisation that allowed this to go on!"

That was Limited Ed's take on the phone-hacking. But how easily it could be turned on Westminster, IF ONLY ONE OF THE 640 MPs XXXXXXXXX

My investigation of the Conservative XXXX Flyer, is now over one year old. In consequence, I can and do assert, from a position of considerable experience in challenging the 'defences' of the Westminster Citadel, that it is riddled with corrupt practices, and totally intent on neutralising all enquiry and challenge. The spirit of democracy is absent.

I wrote to Ed a while back, sending a facsimile of the XXXX Flyer, used illegally to gain votes by the party he loyally opposes XXXXXXXX

Ed limited his response to zero. NOW WHY WOULD HE DO THAT? Might it be that Westminster AS A WHOLE prefers its current corrupt culture, even to the point of treating the people with contempt? XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

While Nick and Dave were still XXXXX, they signed a 5 year contract. BLESS! It will not take me that long to nail this False Instrument to the Coalition Door. Now THAT might just be a bit of definitive Britishness!

STAND UP FOR INTEGRITY.

DURING TIMES OF UNIVERSAL DECEIT TELLING THE TRUTH BECOMES A REVOLUTIONARY ACT.

Support the Revolution.

5.

Its time this "information warfare" deceitful campaign being run by the ConDems ended about the state of UK economy under the last government.

The previous government did not cause the credit crisis which started in the USA with the meltdown from their sub-prime mortgage market. There was a domino effect through the banking system and the wholesale capital markets called in their loans. This left the likes of N. Rock, RBS, Barclays & Lloyds etc unable to fund their existing lending, even though it was broadly a sustainable portfolio of mortgages, although some later did catch a cold from their commercial property speculation in Eire, so were indirectly bailed out again via UK-Eire lending for Irish banks that owed them the money.

The UK had the choice of allowing the entire financial system to implode from the credit crash, or to put in place a bailout by the govt borrowing the money and lending/investing it in the banks - ALL 3 POLITICAL PARTIES AGREED ON THIS.

So 拢110+ Bn was raised and paid over - THIS IS THE SOURCE OF MOST OF THE NEW DEBT - not the Govt's excessive current spending at all. We also now have an ASSET in UK Financial Holding of approx 拢100 Bn in the banks - broadly equal to the additional debt.

Brown also spent a bit more too - the case for this was to stimulate the economy to counteract the credit crisis through a short term VAT cut and bringing forward existing construction schemes to pump prime the economy, which prevented us slipping back into recession AND led to the fall in unemployment and welfare spending below the forecast levels in the 1st six months of the ConDem government and so balanced out the additional spending from the previous year.

IMHO this was sensible and instead of hammering us into a deep recession by taking 拢1 Tn of aggregate demand out of the economy through tax rises and spending cuts, we should now announce a phased approach to selling off the bank holdings and using the money repaying the borrowing over 5-7 years.

George Osborne will go down in history as an ideologically motivated gambler who drove the UK economy off the same cliff as his allies drove the Irish economy last year. Alastair Darling will be seen as a boring, sensible chancellor who kept the show on the road through one of the most extreme global financial crises.

My criticism of them all is that all three UK major political parties still subscribe to the view that deregulating the financial services & banking industry was and is desirable - "big Bang" in the 1980s started the m

Act of Union 1707

The Scots can choose independence if they wish, one party can always withdraw from an agreement. But if the Scots are wanting a renegotiation of the Act of Union that is a different kettle of fish, as that needs both countries consent.

Personally I have no problem with Scotland's Parliament raising its own money via their own natural resources ,instead of the forty odd year old 鈥渢emporary鈥� Barnett formula. Where I would draw a line is the issuing of sovereign debt, I would not want a problem like Greece within our Union.

What defines Britishness

Dear oh dear , glad your guests had thought about this question, it is very simple , we are an island and therefore an island peoples , with our own island peculiarities in law , culture and traditions.
The whole island was named Britannia by the Romans, who also settled London , which they named Londinium.

English Identity

Its takes a Irishman to define Englishness , funny I had a Irish relative via marriage who was such a Anglophile that he wanted to RIP in England when his time came, which sadly in due course he was.

But saying that how can you mention the religiously sanctioned (crusade) Norman invasion , oh you didn't , sorry , Norman invasion and oppression without mentioning ?

The basis of jury trials , no torture, respect for English Common Law and no selling of the Kings justice, to name but a few middle age enlightenments produced in England ?

A few more before 1707 -

The Bill of Rights 1688 or 1689 ?
The heroism of Watt Tyler
The final end of legal serfdom by 1570s ?
Shakespeare (you did mention him fleetingly)
John Locke (theory of natural rights) ?

Are the English Discriminated Against -
For sure , it is called the and it enables Scottish , Welsh and Northern Ireland Mps to , but English Mps can not vote on the same issues effecting Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland because of devolution.
I am also led to believe that we also had a , imagine a English PM having made such a oath.


Oh yes , de-industrialization -
Firstly why were these industries nationalized in the first place , was it because they could not turn a profit and no one in the private sector wanted them ?
Secondly , it all started in the 1970s ?
Around the era of us joining the Common Market in 1972. Na , it could not be, because the Common Market approves of nationalized industries receiving state subsidies doesn't it.
Gawd elp us !

Again I am left asking why I watch your programme , is it for its factual content I wonder ?

To continue by truncated posting:

My criticism of them all is that all three UK major political parties still subscribe to the view that deregulating the financial services & banking industry was and is desirable - "big Bang" in the 1980s started the mad dash to deregulate which make the credit crisis possible, but like Pandora's box, once you open it, deregulation is let out and its impossible to reregulate without risking your resident financial services sector upping sticks and leaving for forweign less regulated shores.

Gordon Brown was an inept communicator: he was very hard in the way he did politics, he didn't come over well to the public and his impatience and obssession with power cost him dear, but he didn't cause the credit crisis and his leadership of the global community in preventing the credit crisis destoying the banking system was vital.

I don't deny the deficit with its additional 拢110 Bn of borrowing to bail out the banks - but neither do I deny the asset of 拢100 Bn+ in our holdings in the banks and I think it's sheer madness to take 拢110 Bn out of the economy now, when we have the asset there to use to repay this borrowing.

A Paul Mason says in today's piece, What's The Growth Strategy?

/news/uk-14029269

Deep, rapid and unecessary spending cuts combined with a flatline economy with rapidly rising unemployment, inflation and debt contrasts sharply with the previous ten years....

#37 And I'd have liked it suggesting that London is more different in terms of identity from the rest of the UK than any other part of it is.

You're right there Count.

40% foreign.

So nothing to do with the British Isles, note I write it that way, we are far from Great these days.

Name me one country that has gone out of its way, created policies that purposely eroded it identity? other than the UK.


Are we willing to do away with our identity, our culture, heritage, our Britishness..listening to the discussion yesterday evening it would appear so..the diversity crowd still make a lot of noise considering that the policy was finally recognised as a wholesale failure. Damage has been done. Little enclaves in and around our towns and cities with cultures and attitudes so far removed from anything that could be regarded as British, do you really think this is a good thing?

The only ones who think everything is still hunky dory are the Libs, the good but misguided folk at the Beeb; the media in general because of the bubble they are sat in and the bleeding hearts and artists. I'm the latter but due to been raised in Northern Ireland -belfast - as a child I know too well what comes when you live amongst people who see themselves different from yourself. Its a condition I have experienced all to often when on my travels as well..not in a bubble but close up and real..not in a 成人论坛 bubble in some distant and safe hotel for a couple of days.

I wonder would Paxman like to move to Camdon or Nottinghill..or what about Burnley or Leicester? But not the Paxman the Newnight fella..just another non-entity. I wonder what his attitude would be after a few years living in one of our high density diverse towns. Having an upperty opinion from afar ain't gonna really cut the mustard is it eh. Thats the problem with Journos...we know more than they'll ever know.

#49 Here's an example Kev



Yeah I know it's the Mail stirring, but I suppose one of those muslim groups said it in the first place.

CRUSADES or CRESCADES? MAIL or MALE. (#50 link)

Get a mix of indigenous blokes (including police, council officials and magistrates) pop them in a scanner, and show them that Mail picture of the hoodies in black. Then show them pre-Crescades pictures of that street. Compare and contrast.

Nuff sin.

I heard audience laughing in the background when Paxo mentioned the idea of giving back the Scottish banks. It is not such a laughing matter if you think about it 鈥� if RBS hits another solvency crisis in the markets, can the English really afford not to bail them out, given the large amount of deposits the entire country has in their bank? There is really not much in it for the English to give up Scotland. If I were the PM, I鈥檇 fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening.

P.S. Panda bear doesn鈥檛 sound like such a bad idea now, does it?!

Kev...was that the same Ronnie who started the wholesale bankruptcy of America, who brought in Preparation H where nobody paid tax and fire departments couldn't fight fires and policemen had no wages, who made 'jokes' about bombing Russia and was the world's worst actor to boot....nah, I don't either....