成人论坛

'Our Diplomatic and Defence editor Mark Urban will be unpicking the key players' positions.'

At least on this thread his unpicking may be teased through a while longer than on his own.

16 comments and out being the recent records so far. Out of 25M, not bad. 6 and counting currently (not sure if Mr. Mason will deem the latest as bad form in its 'wrong toys out of the pram' allusions).

Seems even two days is too long in the world of diplomatic politics.

I doubt whether Russia would care what Will Hague said :p
They'll veto it alright....

FRED "BROUGHT THE SYSTEM INTO DISREPUTE" HELLO?

Surely some political force recommended him and THE SYSTEM MADE A FOOL OF ITSELF BY NOT DOING DUE DILIGENCE?

Who put Fred up for a K? AND WHY?

All part of the everyday corrupt culture of Great Britain, of which Westminster is the pinnacle.

DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - INSTALL INTEGRITY

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Interesting statement this morning on R4鈥檚 鈥楾oday鈥� from a 鈥楲atino鈥� Republican 鈥�.

(Which is, IMO, even more profound then the recent government admission on 成人论坛鈥檚 N24 that 鈥榦verseas aid鈥� is fundamentally aimed at creating future 鈥榗onsumers鈥�!)


Q 鈥�. They need to put us in parts of the government where we can have access to making policy. 鈥�. unQ.


Should one remind oneself of the old adage 鈥�.

鈥榃hat happens in America first, eventually happens here.鈥�



And 鈥�. Oh yes!

Go very fast has done it again!

If a vocational GCSE has any value it is in the fact that it indicates the aptitude, application, intent and willingness of the student undertaking the course. Where it - IME - fails dismally is in clearly showing the quality of the course and the teaching thereof.

Removing the 鈥榓ttribute鈥� 鈥楪CSE鈥� is not the answer. Nor, by the same 鈥榓ction, is it improving the life chances of 鈥榶oof鈥�.

The approach, the curriculum, the resources, the funding and - most importantly - the teaching of vocational subjects undoubtedly requires serious reconsideration as does the whole concept of league tables (abuse.).

For now - sadly, putting aside the contorted and myopic ideology - Go very fast appears to have the willingness but is constantly allowing himself to be blinded by too many 鈥榚xperts鈥� that haven鈥檛 been near a 鈥榬eal鈥� school for eons. ( And are presumably all on nice 鈥榝inancial reward schemes鈥� ) And probably the last time they did venture out of their 鈥榠vory towers鈥� was to a 鈥榮uccessful鈥� school for less than a day and - most likely - was pre-announced to the 鈥榲enue鈥�!

If Go very fast really wants to go down in history as a 鈥榲isionary鈥� whom 鈥榯urned around鈥� the (seriously) failing GB education system ( and IMHO, it doesn鈥檛 matter what party the individual beings to, drastic change must happen! ) he needs to go a lot slower 鈥�. and take a very long, and hard, look at the German vocational training system!

After all he鈥檚 got another three and a half years!

And whatever he does, 鈥�.

He鈥檒l get his Knighthood!



And 鈥�. Oh yes! 鈥�. Again



Whilst on the subject of Knighthoods 鈥�.

Today鈥檚 announcement - already taking plenty of airtime away from Deity Dave鈥檚 antics (Of course it鈥檚 just a coincidence perhaps? Isn鈥檛 it? ) - is nothing more 鈥�.

鈥�. and nothing less than 鈥�..

鈥淟et them eat cake!鈥�

And we should all be very, very, - It must undoubtedly be said again if only to get the point across effectively - very happy!


400

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Robert Fisk, Middle East correspondent for the Independent newspaper, said the reason why the Russians are not going along with the resolution is because "they feel conned by the no-fly zone (in Libya)".

Source:

HE'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TAR AND A LOT OF FEATHERS (#6 link)

Al Gore eh? Judging by the CO2 scam, he would have made an exemplary President!

I see the article linked, includes the word PERVERSE.

Nuff sed.

#7 Mistress wrote:

"Speaking to Al Jazeera, Robert Fisk, Middle East correspondent for the Independent newspaper, said the reason why the Russians are not going along with the resolution is because "they feel conned by the no-fly zone (in Libya)"."


He is correct Mistress...and Russia aren't the only ones.

"The Western-Arab drive to adopt a UN resolution on Syria is a "path to civil war", Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov has warned."

On yesterday's PM programme on R4, a French/Syrian reporter admitted that the troubles in Syria are SECTARIAN and are being encouraged by foreign agent provacateurs.

/programmes/b01b9hjg

But of course, the 成人论坛's Tim Whewell today found a suitably representative group of young muslim Syrian women to deny the above fact on todays R4 PM programme.

/programmes/b01b9kdg

Don't worry, all bases for regime change are covered.

LET'S GIVE THE CHAGOSSIANS THEIR ISLAND BACK AS A JUBILEE GESTURE!

They could all sing God Save the Queen - most appropriate.

Nuff sed

"Tonight, David Grossman looks at the seemingly insatiable appetite for retribution against those deemed responsible for the financial crisis, but are the punishments just token gestures?"

Isn't it telling how the establishment are addressing the SYSTEMIC banking/financial/political failures via the selective and personal scape-goating of former establishment patsies.

The far right libertarians live in their own sad little worlds all on their own with no friends and trusting no one (think Tory party leadership overthrows).

They will sacrifice anyone of their own kind in order to preserve themselves and their system.

"Previously, only convicted criminals or people struck off of professional bodies have had knighthoods taken away."

Goodwin oversaw the reckless expansion of the RBS balance sheet to that of one nearly twice the the UK's GDP balance sheet, before the whole rotten empire came crashing down. He, and his banking ilk, have brought untold economic collapse that will result in social breakdown the likes we have never seen before. Just think of all the family break-ups, ruined businesses, even suicides that this crisis will precipitate. And all that is done is the taking away of his knighthood.
He is still in receipt of a 拢340,000 pension, how about that for a reward for failure!

We surely have to ask why what he and his ilk have done to the country are not considered criminal offences.

DUTY OF CARE - DUE DILIGENCE - CUI BONO (#13)

I say again: who put him up for the K - what was the quid pro quo? Who failed to check he was WORTHY of a K - is the Iraq War syndrome again?

This looks VERY disrespectful, manipulative, dismissive of the Queen. Is The Tower in good repair?

This is the way to beat the KKKCorporates, just stop buying their stuff, perhaps people need to do a similar action against Apple virtual slave labour in China with virtual concentration camp style living accommodation arbeit with cushions admittedly !

I SEE FRED GOT HIS KNIGHTHOOD THROUGH "PRETTY STRAIGHT TONY"

No wonder the Cons are happy to pull him down.

Will the saintly Tony protest?

When are people like Sir Philip Viggers of duckhouse fame to be stripped of their Knighthoods. Plenty of others in Westminster who should be stripped of Honours after the expenses scandal. Don't hold your breath for the corrupt elite to do anything about it.

They have just given the key government CO2 Climate Scam Priest one as well !

Good point by Toby Young! Why weren't other people stripped of their knighthood?
"He's cost the country 拢85billion" JP
"They needed to be reckless" TY
"It reflects a change in the public mood" JP
Excellent debate

Will Hutton has just implied on air that it was 'Scottish politicians like Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond' who were responsible for giving Fred Goodwin his knighthood? Factually wrong. It was Labour's Jack McConnell who nominated him in 2004 when Brown was Chancellor. Nothing at all to do with the SNP. Kindly make sure that Jeremy Paxman corrects that impression on air before opt-out.

Why now? A scapegoat or coalition's move to divert attention? Why Fred, he was not alone but had approval from the board and other financial institutions, one fundamental point remains to be answered, what was the due process to strip him, has he had a chance to present his case? Equally, would this decision devalue knighthood award? It just seems very murky...

Great report, as always, by Tim Whewell on Syria.

"You have encouraged children to waste their time"
"It all happened on your watch!"
"Why has there been a failure?"
"Why have the metrics been set wrongly?"
"To privilege certain subjects over others"
"Which ones might be chucked out?"
"Do you know what you're talking about here?"
"Why didn't you think this through when you raised the school leaving age?"
The GCSE debate.

Priceless Jeremy :)

Hoberman has hit the nail on the head in the Facebook debate.

SOUND POINTS - MURKY INDEED (#21)

Maybe Private Eye will tell the true story - it won't come from NewsyNighty.

English politics are like a paper-back novel: the front cover bears little resemblance to the plot.

Memo to Paxo and all those viewers in the rest of the UK who opted to stay with the London edition of 'Newsnight' after 11pm: you missed a quite superbe discussion on 'Newsnight Scotland' between veteran Scottish economics commentators Alf Young, Bill Jamieson of 'The Scotsman', 成人论坛 Scotland's business correspondent Douglas Fraser (who was beamed in from Oxford) and 'Newsnight''s Gordon Brewer who also interviewed Labour's Scottish finance spokesperson Ken Mackintosh who was quite rightly repentant about all those Labour politicians who jumped on the RBS band-waggon before the bubble burst. Jamieson also made a crucial point that Goodwin got his knighthood in 2004 in the wake of acquisition of National Westminster and questions were also being asked about honours given to other players in this particular capitalist crisis and the timing of The Establishment backlash ...

And as I note that Paxo failed to correct Will Hutton's comment on Alex Salmond prior to the Scottish opt-out can I suggest that you now post up on the Newsnight London website the recording of the Newsnight Scotland discussion from which you opt out?

#5 "(Which is, IMO, even more profound then the recent government admission on 成人论坛鈥檚 N24 that 鈥榦verseas aid鈥� is fundamentally aimed at creating future 鈥榗onsumers鈥�!)"


Hhhhhmmmmm didn't work in this case did it JA?! ; )

TELLING POST! (#27) HAS ANYONE PLOTTED GLOBAL CORRUPTION?

I have a feeling it varies inversely to ice-cover. We are coming to the end of an 'interglacial' and global corruption is reaching its 100,000 year MAXIMUM.

I doubt Dave knows. Poor Tony - all that money . . .

SURELY SIGNATURES WENT OUT WITH NICK'S CREDIBILITY? (#30 link)

Lizzy's link ends: "nothing until the contract is physically signed."

Nuff sed

I've no sympathy for ex-Sir Fred, as he shas shown not a SHRED of remorse!

BUT he is only a scapegoat for a whole generation of bankers. EITHER they didn't know what they were doing, in which case the banks are institutionally incompetent. OR the bankers did know, in which case they were recklessly negligent and fraudulent: and, as Alexander Curzon said regularly (and still does, off-Beeb) should be prosecuted and disqualified. In the latter case the banks are institutionally corrupt.

In either case, the big banks as we know them are rotten to the core and should be dismantled. (Along with Westminster, Barrie would argue I expect). There is absolutely NO case for "muddle along and business as usual"!

I also believe we need to rethink the whole concept of limited liability. What was designed to let sleeping shareholders off the hook is now used to allow companies to own/control/manage subsidiaries into the ground, but then renege upon the debts and obligations incurred. Limited liability, so disapproved of by Adam Smith, is one of the cornerstones of irresponsible predator capitalism.

England and Scotland are united in having arrogant and incompetent bankers - and politicians!

The British subsidiary of the banking disaster didn't just happen in 2008, it was at least a decade in creation.

Burt and Mathewson, the "offwhite knights" who wanted to rescue HBOS for Salmond, had helped create the very problems they claimed to have the answer to. Mathewson (whose Wikipedia entry is now bland and sanitised) was Fred Goodwin's mentor, and Burt was the archtect of HBOS, after failing to succeed as BOS ceo in the reverse takeove of NatWest.

28. At 23:31 31st Jan 2012, Neil Robertson wrote:
And as I note that Paxo failed to correct Will Hutton's comment

Odd, he was all over Louise Mensch the other night for a politician claim malfunction. Can we expect a brighter interview future with our great and good not using the airwaves simply as a facilitated PR system? At least, equally?

Speaking of the bubble on the box...

Just watched a LibDem peer on SKY being a typical media bandwagon pol: 'er.. one right doesn't apply to anything wrong that I happen to hold dear.. moving on'.

So we also have Mr. Darling feeling it is tawdry, and asking what about other bankers... but not, it seems, other honours awardees from other areas... such as, oo, politics.

Our glorious, hypocritical, tribal, ratings-obsessed media are of course lapping it all up.

And, yet again, the symbolism is all, yet the money stays put.

No questions will be asked.

@33 I think you are wrong about George Mathewson, with respect. The strategy he and his predecessor as RBS Chair George Younger (a former Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland and Defence Secretary under Mrs Thatcher) developed to stop RBS being taken over by predators was a long-term strategic alliance with Spanish bank Santander. It was only when that firewall began to crumble that RBS merged with National Westminster and the culture changes.

ONLY ONE INSTITUTION ROUTINELY CLAIMS HONOUR BUT WITHOUT INTEGRITY

Lets rid ourselves of FALSE HONOUR wherever it is found. This Parliament is illegitimate - void; I have documentary proof.



DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - RESTORE HONOUR TO ENGLAND

German miracle? Or cooking the books as we do?



The best rated comment is very interesting, I wonder if he is nearer the truth than the spin that is spun out?!

Pleased to see the Mail is headlining this.....



A country will thousands of millionaires but we give them a billion a year in aid, hee,hee, madness.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Last night's Newsnight Scotland is on iPlayer, and a very superior programme it is too. There are no gratuitous clips of Ed Miliband holding forth about city regulation but not being asked about about Fred Goodwin. And there are no hasty interruptions and changing the subject when someone mention Gordon Brown or the FSA. Gordon Brewer had read the FSA report and displayed an impressive grasp of his brief.

I had been a bit worried about Question Time moving to Scotland but I look forward to it now as a possible return to sanity.

YOU MEAN AID IS CONDITIONAL! THAT'S DISHONOURABLE! (#38 link)

Hi Lizzy. Oh dear, this country seems to be deeply confused about honour and dishonour. Might it be that those who are taught to be CLEVER (education X 3) rather than WISE, simply can't grasp the concept of honour?

That would explain Dave . . .

39. At 09:20 1st Feb 2012, You wrote:
Your comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules, these being, apparently, without actually deigning to explain which, one of any 'considered likely to disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others. Are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable. Contain swear words or other language likely to offend.

I am hoping it was only the acronym for male bovine manure, because if it was my pointing out the two-faced hypocrisy of the same pols and media currently shrieking 'you can't target just one man' over Fred Goodwin were doing just that on Stephen Hester only a day ago, that would be... 'unique'.

As a piece of further misdirection it is a work of genius, but running a country, or reporting on its running by the establishment simply trying to trump each other with petty nonsense on symbols whilst the real money is left alone is hardly going to dig us out of this hole.

I appreciate our media's role as jackals in winnowing out the weak, but not when the lamest are being spared in cynical hope of ruling via control of the public and hence rating-obsessed statespersonblackhole via the airwaves.

40. At 09:58 1st Feb 2012, MaggieL - moving to Scotland but I look forward to it now as a possible return to sanity

Maybe, on the slim chance of things not being popped in, or out, based more on narrative demands than actual information or educational imperatives, it could be a case of 'We're all saved, saved I tell 'ye.. aye'?

Our 'news' and 'reporting' gets to be more and more curiously like 'The Dog That Barked in The Night', er, nightly.

@ Ecolizzy #37 - shocking how the statistics for unemployment are spun! The top rated comment summed it up perfectly. "Criminal."

#38 - BAE should have used the sweeteners the French used. There's nothing wrong with it. It's called corporate hospitality, and is perfectly legal.

POW! SOK! KARRRANGGG! AN HONOURABLE POST! (#42)

The portal is open Junkk! AND NOW WE CAN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE REALLY THINKING BUT NOT SAYING! (Or did someone mix up Feb 1st with Apr 1st?)

Before the opportunity is lost - V FOR VENDETTA!

'Before the opportunity is lost'

I'll get me coat (it is nippy), plus a few other things to warm up the establishment that are best left unmentioned (especially on twitter, when it's cold, and airports shut... if you know what I mean:), even in jest.

PMQs - WATCH NICK'S FACE WHEN DAVE IS AT HIS MOST DAVISH

Nuff sed.

{Political} Britain is at a dead end.

The Honours/Dishonours system is just another nail in the coffin.

PS. When are we going to get Newsnight England?

This one is gaining traction...

/news/uk-politics-16838434

I am simply glad questions are being asked, vs. the usual 'what he meant put his foot was in his mouth' 'interpretations' some commentators helpfully feel they need to offer.

Also enjoyed this...

23. AndyC555

A war on these people might be excessive but a skirmish seems appropriate:

/news/uk-16812185

If they're worried about saving some of the benefits I pay them, how about cutting out the internet, entertainment, Sky TV, mobiles, fags and beer?

And Ray (not your real name) given that the market for your skills dried up 10 years ago, isn't it about time you retrained?

Ah well, back to, er.. what's that thing we do again?



Oh', the.. edit suite again, I'd hazard.

#41 Aw Barrie, we gave up being honourable years ago as a country!