成人论坛

Thanks for posting this. America is a deeply racist country and shock jocks like Imus have had a free ride for too long. I hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are successful in getting Imus and people like him removed from our airwaves.

I've always been uncomfortable with politicians visiting Imus's studio on the campaign trail. I hope this will be the end of that and that presidential candidates will give him a pass this time round.

Why don't CBS and MSNBC take him off permanently. He's a loud, aggressive, racist, sexist, homophobic radio shock jock who adds nothing positive to our lives. Let's get some radio hosts with the kind of values we've come to appreciate in the 成人论坛.

Personally I'd rather have people like this than many on the 成人论坛.

SG

I wondered how long it would take before Stephen G rose up to defend racism.

We've been covering this here since Wednesday last week.

Comment #1 is not reflective of the general public response to this witch-hunt, as anyone can observe by checking responses on YouTube or anywhere else. Imus does a comedy show. It was a stupid remark for which he has rightly apologised, but the remark certainly doesn't rate him as a racist. Sharpton is a sanctimonious imbecile and Imus made a mistake by going on his show in the first place, which, by the way, is one of the most racist shows I've ever heard. How many times does a guy have to apologise before the self-righteous morons put their guns away?

I think what Sharpton doesn't realise is the final upshot (ie. the inevitable product) of his demand. He is demanding Imus be fired because we must take a stand against all racism on all "public airwaves." But the definition of 'racism' he uses is a very broad brush. "Nappy-headed ho's" was Imus' way of describing how tough, grisly, severe, the women of Rutgers looked, in comparison to the competition. THAT was the humour. Seconds earlier he mentioned their tattoos. The humour was similar to saying, "I wouldn't want to meet any of THEM up a dark alley." But because he used the words "nappy-headed" to describe their appearance, he should be fired.

Now that's very interesting, because there's plenty of humour that relies upon describing different people in different ways. "Looks like he slept in a cardboard box last night." Should the jock who said that be fired? "She had a blonde moment." Should the jock who said that be fired? "He's a redneck." Should the jock who said that be fired too?

Do we want to live in a world where Patty Englishman, Scotsman and Irishman disappear forever and the airwaves are all as bland and dishonest as Sharpton's show? Irish jokes are among the best in the world. Should I be offended, outraged, and demand the firing of whichever jock allowed such a joke to be aired on their show? WHY NOT? Or is it very simply just extremely easy to offend some people?

Don Imus is a legend of the radio industry. He's been a staple of broadcasting for almost 40 years in America. Now, because Sharpton's sharks and Jackson's jaws want blood, because of a stupid comment for which he has already sincerely apologised, it should end?

These people need to GROW UP.

By the way, David (Oxford) says: "I wondered how long it would take before Stephen G rose up to defend racism." I'll bet you did, David. I'm sure that's all you've been thinking about since seeing this story.

We had a discussion some time ago on my own blog concerning 鈥榝orgiveness鈥� which I think is relevant to the Imus case. A number of my conservative N. Ireland friends chimed in as well as my colleagues here in the USA so I got some perspectives from both sides of the Atlantic.

I think Holloway鈥檚 book that was the topic of the thread has a lot to say on this situation 鈥� his book begins with the quote:

There is only forgiveness, if there is any, where there is the unforgiveable" - Jacques Derrida

I was particularly impressed with one of my own bloggers who commented on Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I think there is a lot we can all learn both here in the USA and in N. Ireland from such discussions.

It will be interesting to see if 鈥榝orgiveness鈥� is granted to Imus and then how 鈥榡ustice鈥� is subsequently served by him.

Regards,
Michael

I personally never liked Imus. I always thought he was an ass. I never watched or listened to his program. His radio show was actually broadcast on TV and he always wore a big stupid hat. All you saw was him sitting there talking, his hat taking up half the screen. By and large he is boring.

Commercial TV in the US cannot afford to keep openly racist people on their programs, their ratings are too important to them, they live on audience share. In fact that's what determines the advertising rates they can charge. So Imus hit his employers where it hurts most, on the bottom line. I have no doubt that he will shortly disappear probably for good. Clearly I won't miss him. Things like this happen periodically and the outcome is always the same. His career is over, his public image is irrevocably tarnished.

By the way JP #1, you could hardly have picked two worse examples of people to "fight" racism. Jesse Jackson is clearly a racist and revealed it to the public inadvertently when he referred to New York City as "Hymietown." So much for his rainbow coalition.

"Jackson has been criticized for some of the remarks he has made about Jews and Jewish issues: that Nixon was less attentive to poverty in the U.S. because "four out of five [of Nixon's top advisors] are German Jews and their priorities are on Europe and Asia"; that he was "sick and tired of hearing about the Holocaust"; that there are "very few Jewish reporters that have the capacity to be objective about Arab affairs"; [7] In addition Rev. Jackson had referred to Jews as "Hymies" and to New York City as "Hymietown" in January 1984 during a conversation with Washington Post reporter, Milton Coleman."

Al Sharpton always plays the race card to get noteriety. His most famous gaff was the Tawana Brawley fiasco.

"she was 15 years old....her claim that she was raped by six white men, some of them police officers, in the village of Wappingers Falls, New York. The alleged incident soon became a media sensation, championed by Reverend Al Sharpton and by attorneys Alton H. Maddox and C. Vernon Mason. There were no indictments in an investigation conducted by a grand jury in October 1988, who cited a lack of evidence, concluding she had not been abducted, assaulted, raped and sodomized."

"Testimony from her schoolmates indicated that she had attended a local party during the time of her supposed abduction, and one witness claimed to have observed Brawley climbing into the garbage bag. An ex-boyfriend of Brawley's told Newsday that Brawley had admitted making the attack up."

(It was surmised that she invented the story because she was afraid her parents would be angry about her activities had they known the truth.)

"Brawley and her mother were issued subpoenas to testify in front of the grand jury, and refused to do so. This may have prompted Brawley and her family to move hastily to Virginia, taking with them a "defense fund" of $300,000 which had been contributed by well-wishers. There is still an outstanding warrant in New York against the two for ignoring the subpoena.

The case still hangs over Sharpton, particularly following his entry into mainstream politics (his race for the 2004 Democratic Presidential nomination involved his addressing the convention from its podium), not merely because he defended Brawley's story but for the unfounded accusations he leveled, and, according to some of his critics, his "playing the race card"."

So what did all of this "racism" actually boil down to? Nothing more than talk....cheap talk.

You're right John. Imus can't be a racist. Because:

1. The comment about the hos was funny.

2. He's a legend in american radio.

3. His destractors (Sharpton / Jackson) are also racists.

Makes perfect sense. Case dismissed.

I dont care whether Jackson and Sharpton are also racists and antisemites. They may be, then we should call them such and remove them from serious credibility.

The question is whether Imus is racist. He admits his comment was racist, why shouldnt we take him at his word? Why this rush to defend him John? Mark?

Kenny #7- Your sarcasm is lost on me, since you appear to have ignored the part of my comment where I actually make my point. Until you re-read it and get back to me with a proper reply, I've got nothing to say in response to you.

Jeremy #8- If you check, I mentioned Sharpton's racism "by the way"; it wasn't my defense of Imus (it was a standalone criticism of Sharpton's hypocrisy). I appreciate your comment, and my basic answer is that I am, like many in the American media, defending Imus because I believe this is unreasonable and unfair treatment of a very valuable media icon. Imus admitted that his use of a racist slang word was wrong; he certainly didn't admit to being a racist and in fact has denied it vehemently many times. Uttering some racist slang without thinking carefully enough about it does not a racist make. Those who think it does have clearly not thought this through.

I see neither of you answered any of my original questions. For example. Should I be entitled to the same 'justice' as the Rutgers girls if someone makes an Irish joke, or ribs me about my hairstyle, or any number of other attributes? When humour is the central objective rather than a serious assessment, our standards are -rightly- different. When someone merely intends to generate laughter or provoke mirth, particularly in a spontaneous environment, words are not being used for the same purpose as they are in a solemn discussion of that same topic. In real life, with real human language, that is undeniable.

The point is not to excuse Imus' comments. The point is to understand that there is a world of difference between real racism and what Imus said. I would suggest that the victims of real racism are being belittled by this irrelevant side show.

One of my bloggers (Diana Malcolm) commented to me this morning:

Quote As you probably know Imus runs a famous ranch where he takes kids with cancer and they can be 'cowboys/girls' for several weeks. I heard this morning that he had recently had a problem with four black girls who kept calling each other 'bitches and whores'. At one point he brought them in to his office there and gave them a dressing down about this behavior. However, the behavior did not stop and he had to send them home early. I do not blame the four girls involved but I must blame society which is where this behavior and uncivility is taught to them. End quote.

I think both the USA and UK have some problems that need to be addressed. In my visits to the UK what strikes me is how sexually orientated most of the humor there is. The airways seems fixated on genitals. This has even extended into my private email correspondence with my school friends from Ireland. Periodically one or the other will send me a joke going the rounds in the UK. The joke is always sexually based.

I am not proposing any censorship over there or here but I am curious why both the TV here and there find humor only in scatological conversation.

Regards,
Michael

Jeremy Green #8
English spoken differently where you come from than where I do? Words have different meanings? WHERE did I defend Imus? But now that you bring it up, here is an interesting thought I hadn't considered. Jesse Jackson and Alan Sharpton are frequently guests on interview shows and panel talk shows like Larry King Live and have been ever since their own racist attitudes were revealed a long long time ago. Nobody ever said that they should be taken off the air yet one small slip of the tongue by Imus and the throngs are out for blood even after apologies. I said I won't miss him and I wouldn't miss Sharpton or Jackson if they never appeared again either. In fact I deliberately registered as a Democrat to vote in the New Jersey primary when Jackson ran for nomination for president because....HE WAS NOT QUALIFIED. But this points out the one sided hypocricy of liberals who have one set of standards for those who agree with them and another for those whose words and ideas they oppose. I on the other hand am completely even handed, I find liberals just as contemptable as conservatives. I don't like being preached to...by anyone. And as must be clear by now, I do not hesitate to openly say it.

I agree with John. I have watched Imus for years and he is definitely not a racist.

He attacks the powerful classes of all races and sex. His mistake in this case was in trying to make a joke in passing about a group that was neither powerful or able to respond.

During the Katrina mess Don Imus was calling everyone in government including Bush every epithet that I have ever heard and more. He was screaming at Bush that Bush was a racist in not having paid attention to the danger in New Orleans and in taking days to respond. He pointed out that had this disaster taken place in white, rich Stamford, Connecticut every government plug would have been pulled to help earlier.

I didn't agree with him that Bush is a racist etc but I did suppor this anger on the airways about what was happening to the citizens of New Orleans. That reaction by Imus was genuine and it did a lot to embarrass this government into firing the head of FEMA and keeping a spotlight on its response.

Regards,
Michael

I wondered how long it would take before David (Oxford) rose up to once again display his shaky grasp of English.

Read what I actually wrote David... please, for once in your miserable life.

SG

It seems to me the term "nappy headed" could be used to refer to Arabs. Don't you Brits refer to baby diapers which look like what some Arab men wear on their heads as "nappies?" (The red and white ones look more like checkered tablecloths. Remind me never to eat on a red and white checkered tablecloth if I ever go to he Middle East. You never know whose head it may just have come off of :-)

Looking up "nappy" on dictionary.com yielded this definition;

nap路py3 /藞n忙pi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nap-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
鈥揳djective, -pi路er, -pi路est.
1. covered with nap; downy.
2. (of hair) kinky.

There is nothing there about the term being racially pejorative. Technically I think it was correct although it may have been inferred as an insult. As for the term "hos" it is of course current African American vernacular for whores but I've heard many African Americans both men and women use it freely even on broadcast TV as a kind of mild pejorative. Not nice but I'm beginning to get the feeling that the reaction is way out of proportion to what was actually said. It's starting to seem like a witch hunt. As racial offenses go, it doesn't begin to hold a candle to what is routine at many European soccer matches such as in Spain. BTW, I still find Imus boring and I still think he'll be off the air probably for good.

Where are all the responses from the Imus-lynchers?

I have suspended my veiwing of MSNBC until Imusty is fired or Lester HOLT gets a show with a point of veiw. I have religiously watched, Chris, Keith and Tucker daily, but I have forced myself to watch only CNN until Imusty is FIRED. Nappy headed people watch the most TV than any group in the country, so look forward to dropped ratings. My TV has been tuned into MSNBC for several years, or at least constantly since 2001. I thought I was getting fair news Coverage, but you seem to be turning into FOX-lite. I had to watch Lou, Larry and Wolf Last night, and yes they were talking about Imusty and the Women of Rutgers. I never liked Imusty's Show it was apparently racist and sexist, Why hasn't McKirk been around with Imusty apologizing?, he is the real instigator, racist, sexist bigot. Why does he get to hide. When Imusty Meets with the Rutgers Women they should show him how a "nappy headed hoe" would treat and idiot like Imusty,but they are apparently more dignified than Imusty and MSNBC put together. If you don't fire Imusty Inc. I fire MSNBC, Nice knowing you
You should all be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!
Your Former #1 nappy headed viewer

I have suspended my veiwing of MSNBC until Imusty is fired or Lester HOLT gets a show with a point of veiw. I have religiously watched, Chris, Keith and Tucker daily, but I have forced myself to watch only CNN until Imusty is FIRED. Nappy headed people watch the most TV than any group in the country, so look forward to dropped ratings. My TV has been tuned into MSNBC for several years, or at least constantly since 2001. I thought I was getting fair news Coverage, but you seem to be turning into FOX-lite. I had to watch Lou, Larry and Wolf Last night, and yes they were talking about Imusty and the Women of Rutgers. I never liked Imusty's Show it was apparently racist and sexist, Why hasn't McKirk been around with Imusty apologizing?, he is the real instigator, racist, sexist bigot. Why does he get to hide. When Imusty Meets with the Rutgers Women they should show him how a "nappy headed hoe" would treat and idiot like Imusty,but they are apparently more dignified than Imusty and MSNBC put together. If you don't fire Imusty Inc. I fire MSNBC, Nice knowing you
You should all be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!
Your Former #1 nappy headed viewer

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please consider Exhibits 16 and 17. These are clearly the views of reason.

I have suspended my veiwing of MSNBC until Imusty is fired or Lester HOLT gets a show with a point of veiw. I have religiously watched, Chris, Keith and Tucker daily, but I have forced myself to watch only CNN until Imusty is FIRED. Nappy headed people watch the most TV than any group in the country, so look forward to dropped ratings. My TV has been tuned into MSNBC for several years, or at least constantly since 2001. I thought I was getting fair news Coverage, but you seem to be turning into FOX-lite. I had to watch Lou, Larry and Wolf Last night, and yes they were talking about Imusty and the Women of Rutgers. I never liked Imusty's Show it was apparently racist and sexist, Why hasn't McKirk been around with Imusty apologizing?, he is the real instigator, racist, sexist bigot. Why does he get to hide. When Imusty Meets with the Rutgers Women they should show him how a "nappy headed hoe" would treat and idiot like Imusty,but they are apparently more dignified than Imusty and MSNBC put together. If you don't fire Imusty Inc. I fire MSNBC, Nice knowing you
You should all be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!
Your Former #1 nappy headed viewer

Still no takers? I'm a little disappointed; I thought all these people crying "RACIST!" would be here to defend their position.

Meantime, my response to the Imus controversy was summed up in two words I uttered on the radio yesterday: "selective outrage". (My point was that, as a society, we are prone to choosing what to be outraged about, making it fake and dishonest. This was particularly evident in the Imus controversy.) Libertarian radio talk show host was interviewed last night on Hannity & Colmes and used the same phrase to describe the Imus controversy, saying that while Imus' remark could not be defended, "...it also shows you the double-standard and the selective outrage." This from a black man who didn't seem particularly offended.

I guess great libertarians think alike.

Re #16 and the repeated posts

ChuckBurnz wrote: I have suspended my veiwing (sic) of MSNBC until Imusty (sic) is fired

Well you can go back to watching MSNBC. MSNBC will no longer simulcast the Imus radio show beginning immediately.

Will you seek now....

1) To have Al Sharpton also removed from the airwaves for refusing to apologize to several white officers for the Twana Brawley case even after he was forced by a court to pay a fine for his behavior.

2) To have Jesse Jackson removed for referring to New York City as 'Hymietown'.

3) To have all disk jockeys that play rap music in which songs constantly refer to black women as 'hos good for rape', and 'rape the bitches' etc. taken off the air.

4) To protest against secular humanist Bill Maher who has just finished a movie with Borat to 'destroy religion' as he put it on TV today. When asked what he proposed to put in its place he replied that people should be free to do what they wanted including using drugs and pursuing prostitutes 'as long as no one is harmed'. I presume he will dignify the prostitutes he vists by not referring to them as 'hos'.

Regards,
Michael

Michael-

Exactly. I am so fed up with this collective 'offense' that everyone is taking all the time about everything. Bottom line: this comment was in no way collectively offensive, and was not in the least demeaning or disrespectful to anyone EXCEPT the Rutgers women's basketball team. It's them and them only to whom he should have apologised. It was a mean thing to say and targeted people who weren't 'fair game', ie. didn't do anything in the public eye except play good basketball. It was simply just an unkind thing to say; I can't find any 'racism' in it whatsoever, and nobody has come on here to explain where it is.

Speaking of which.

I'd like to suggest that those who want to define the term 'racism' so loosely be very careful about getting caught in your own net. It may someday be you that makes the mistake of telling an Irish joke in a future culture that you created through your propensity to find those who have been guilty of 'offending' people. It may result in the guns of your censorship and apologies and firings and witch hunts being turned back on yourself through something as ridiculous as what Imus is being called 'racist' for.

The fact of the matter is that America has this little thing called The Bill Of Rights. One of those rights is the Right to Free Speech. It is one of the cornerstones of our country. Whether you agree or disagree with Imus, he has the right to speak his mind, without fear of retribution. Were his comments inflammatory? Sure. Were they insensitive? A bit. Were they racist? Not necessarily. Should he lose his job over it? Absolutely not. That would be setting a very dangerous precedent. If you want to find racism in something bad enough, you probably will. People in America have become too sensitive and are all too ready to play the role of the victim. If an African-American DJ had made the same comment or if the Rutgers women's basketball team had been all white players, no one would have ever heard of it, much less made it headline news.

K.Worthington- Agreed. Since I know how much Will & Testament readers love Ann Coulter, here's a link to her take on it: click . Another reasonable approach.

John: those who cry "racist" or who are swept along in whatever fadish media circus happens to come to town are rarely able to defend their views. I'm still waiting for Davy Oxo to tell me just how I'm racist or defending racism...or perhaps is "racist" just a new slang term to slap on someone that you dislike? You never know what kids these days are doing. I don't get the half of it. If Davy Oxo had called me a, ummm, Richard Cranium, I might have understood.

As you probably guessed I've been up all night worrying about it ;)

SG

K. Worthington #23
You completely misunderstand what the Constitutional right of free speech in the United States means. It is dangerous for people to confuse their legal rights to speak out in public and express their opinions without fear of going to jail for sedition and their right to take it upon themselves to use their employer's broadcasting station to insult part of its audience and alienate its market without the consequence of being fired. Nobody in America is guaranteed to keep a job in the private sector if they do not perform to their employer's satisfaction. This is not France. He will likely be fired for cause. Then he will have all of the time in the world to stand out on the corner of 42nd street and 7th avenue to spout whatever nonsense he likes along with all of the rest of the wackos. In all likelihood, most people will ignore him when he does. Or he can take some of his money and open up his own "hatespeak" radio station...even if it's only on shorwave with the rest of the lunatics.

Stephen G- I hear ya, brother. And entirely agree. In fact the word 'racist' is being thrown around so much these days it's about to become an Olympic sport. As for David (Oxford), I think his was the kind of emotional overreaction we see so frequently on the Left, causing all manner of bastardised policy and blurted nonsense. If people could learn to think before they speak, Imus wouldn't be in this mess either.

Mark- I'm happy to agree with the distinction you make regarding free speech. There's every chance that Imus will be very successful elsewhere eventually; he had a faithful throng of listeners who are totally bemused by all this and can't understand what all the fuss is about, much less why an apology isn't good enough. Imus won't be disappearing, if you ask me.

RE 13 David's Shaky English

This is a boring petty feud that could easily be continued elsewhere.

I only comment because I couldn't help noticing that whilst bemoaning David's shaky English you have deployed a beautiful split infinitive.

Pedantry is alive and well in all of us...
;)

GW-

(1) Stephen's criticism of David's shaky English was of his ability to read what Stephen wrote, not a critique of his grammar.

(2) Most experts are happy to allow the split infinitive in modern day English grammar. Your disapproval of its use is outdated. :-)

Catholic League's Bill Donohue commented as follows:

鈥淭wo years ago, Penn Jillette (of the comedy team Penn and Teller) went on Showtime calling Mother Teresa 鈥楳other F鈥攌ing Teresa鈥� and called the nuns who worked with her 鈥榝鈥攌ing c鈥攖s.鈥� Showtime is owned by Viacom and that is why I wrote to its chief, Sumner Redstone, to register a complaint. He wrote back extolling the merits of 鈥榓rtistic freedom鈥� and 鈥榯olerance.鈥� Last year, on Viacom-owned CBS radio, Jillette said Mother Teresa 鈥榟ad this weird kink that I think was sexual,鈥� compared the saintly nun to Charles Manson and said she 鈥榞ot her [sexual] kicks watching people suffer and die.鈥� Again, nothing was done about this.

鈥淚n 2005, Bill Maher went on HBO at the time of the death of Pope John Paul II and said, 鈥楩or those who could not make the funeral, the Vatican has asked that in lieu of flowers, just stop touching your d鈥攌.鈥� He also said that the whole story of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and the Resurrection was 鈥榞rafted from paganism鈥�; he ended by mocking the death of the pope and the upcoming conclave. The letter I received from HBO said that 鈥榠t鈥檚 a free country, and people are free to say silly things鈥攅ven on HBO.鈥�

鈥淚n other words, Catholic bashing is humorous and an exercise in liberty. Racism is awful. Bigotry, then, is neither good nor bad鈥攊t just depends who the target is.鈥�

Regards,
Michael

Michael- I presume you agree with me that people who find anything offensive should switch to another station?

Re 31:

Yes except there are precious few stations left from the major outlets where one can go. For example, if one enjoys comedy or comedy sitcoms one is forced to endure comedy that is based almost totally on sex and sexual functionality combined with coarse language wherever one turns.

Surely we can aspire to something higher?

Regards,
Michael

Michael- Possibly. I have no disdain for sexual references in comedy or anywhere else; adult comedy has no reason to ignore sexuality as a source of humour... but neither is there any particular reason to sexualise everything in the manner of infants as much programming tends to do.

Another point on 'racism' and this selective outrage鈩�.

Why does it take a 成人论坛 reporter (Justin Webb) to question the rampant anti-Americanism found in Europe? Even then he does so without calling it what it is: RACISM. In today's Guardian, Webb writes:

"[The anti-American creed] is not reactive, it is visceral. Why else would English friends with impeccable anti-racist credentials ask about our children (who grew up in the US) 'How will you get rid of their accents.' Well, why would we want to?"

As one commenter on the Guardian website pointed out, "I would say that disproves their 'impeccable anti-racist credentials' right away."

Is this not incredibly, fundamentally, indisputably, profoundly more racist than the sentiments of Don Imus?

John:

My impression today is that Europeans are much more 'racist' (not the best term but it will do) than Americans. I think that 20 years ago it was a nationalistic type of racism but now with travel and the internet it has become more Euro-based and certainly anti-American.

(Before anyone gets upset let me just state that this is an opinion based on my experiences I am not claiming this opinion represents a state of truth.)

As a young man I had a very strong Irish accent and I certainly experienced racism in England. I was even turned away from a bed and breakfast in Birmingham. After a few years in the USA I was able to drop the accent and when I visited the UK people assumed that I was from Canada. It was a night and day difference in the way people related to me.

The British are more concerned about one's class than the Americans. If one enters a conversation with strangers in Britain the conversation does a little opening dance around your position in society, the school you attended etc. That establishes the 'pecking order'. Here in the USA the opening dance involves what company one works for and how much income one might have and the 'pecking order' is thereby established. Next time you are in a group of strangers here in the USA try not to answer the question of what you do for a living. You will see some very uncomfortable reactions to you from the questioners!

When I first came to the USA I thought everything here was wrong. Five years later I thought everything in the UK was wrong. Now of course I have learned that life is not 'either/or' it is 'both/and' so I accept others as they are and hope that I can be accepted for who I am. We all have our biases (hidden or open) and I am as guilty as anyone.

Now on Imus, I think forgiveness is the proper response given his repeated acceptance of his 'sin'. However, justice needs to be served. That could have been achieved by keeping him on the air with the condition that one program per week (he is on every week day) would be devoted entirely to topics involving minority issues here in the USA. We could have had a win-win for everyone. Right now it seems we have simply crucified Imus as some sort of mistaken atonement for the perceived sins of white Americans towards black women. Retributive justice won out over restorative justice.

Regards,
Michael

Michael- There is a lot of resentment against America for -basically- working hard, playing hard, making a lot of money and reaping the results of having it. All of those things I consider to be virtues, so I consider such anti-American sentiment to be invalid. Europeans display a snobby, pretentious attitude much more frequently than Americans, and I'd rather eat hamburgers than Foie Gras any day.

The reason I raised the issue of anti-Americanism is because it is a much more blatant, substantial form of racism than anything Imus said and yet many of the same people pontificating about the hideousness of Imus' remarks are blind to their own racism and would vehemently deny that anti-Americanism (for example) is racist at all. These people are known by the word 'hypocrite', like most of those who've turned their guns on Don Imus.

Shame on them.

Imus has just and will no longer be on either television or radio.

Please note that Mr. Imus's "amusing" description of the young Rutgers athletes (who had just fought their way to the U.S. collegiate women's basketball finals) as whores with kinky hair was followed by his producer's referring to them as "jigaboos." (Witty, eh?) Black reporter Gwen Ifill has also been characterized by Mr. Imus as the "cleaning lady" who covers the White House. These samples of his wit and wisdom are indeed free speech, and I will defend to the death his right to say them. But I'll also defend to the death CBS's right to fire his sorry self for persistently acting like a mean-spirited idiot.

Well barely a day has passed since I posted it and as I predicted, Imus is toast. Fired. The reason of course is not that the managers of the station were outraged by what he said, frankly they could probably hardly care less, they were outraged by the prospect that it would cost them money. Don't forget their bonuses at the end of the year are partly determined by the financial success of their enterprise. What's bad for business has to go and in 2007, Imus and his jibbering offenses are clearly bad for business. From what I gather following it on the talk shows, he's had a long long history of this kind of abuse and this was just the final straw.

Looks like the "shock jock" turned out to be nothing more than a "jock ass."

Gee:

A split infinitive is a stylistic issue, not an agreed grammatical rule. I'm a fan of the split infinitive. In any event my point contra Davy Oxo was not a critique of his grammar or style. It was a critique of his basic understanding of a sentence. Sorry if you think it's petty, but when someone calls me a defender of racism on the grounds of a blatant misunderstanding I think I have a right to respond.

SG

Gee:

Sorry, I forgot to thank you for describing my split infinitive as beautiful. It really was, wasn't it?

SG

41.

Yes it was - of course Star Trek has set the bar pretty high.

To boldly go...

Ah yes! A classic...

For all his stange terms of expression did Yoda ever an infinitive split?

Mmmmm..........

SG

It's a sad state of affairs in the US and White Supremist World empire when racist stoop to comparing hip-hop street languuage with political discourse. If music education was funded in the inner-city black youth would not have to create hip-hop to have an outlet of expression. Classic case of blaming the victim. Imusty stillnever took responsibility for over 30 years of racist sexisat remarks. Jesse and Al have made mistakes, but they didn't do it as a host of a TV or Radio Show. How many Blacks anchor or host any TV or Radio show with a political opinion? NONE, Zero, Nada. Neo consevatism, and homosexuality are more mainstream than civil rights for ethnic minorities. Did you forget your history. Blacks cannot when these racist attitudes are excused by whites.
Imusty got what he desrved well over due. Blacks one , whites too many to count. Slow progress is better than no progress. this country's history does not provide racist asecond chance. Learn from history or take responsibility for it now. White Guilt lives on until white hate of everything non-white becomes love.
"the Dev..." oh I mean Hip-Hop made me do it". Yeah right Willie Lynch made you do it.

ummmm

What
Where are all your excuses now?!!!!!!
Furthermore Al and Jesse don't have waht it takes to be a racist; POWER . They could be prejudice, but it takes POWER to be a racist, and that's why Imusty was fired. He attcked Powerless College Students. This was not only racist and sexist, but also Cowardly. He would never say such a thing to any one of those women face to face,because he couldn't fend off the smallest woman on that team from whooping his ass, so he said it from his ivory tower where he thought he could not be touched. I rooted for Rutgers during the whole tournament and wish that their season ended in a Championship. They are Champs in my book and Imusty the Chump gets punked.
Love, Peace and Hair Grease
Happy to be Nappy

Chuck Burnz- #44. Yours is among the most inaccurate ramblings that I've read on this blog. Allow me to enlighten you.

Your assertion: It's a sad state of affairs in the US and White Supremist World empire when racist stoop to comparing hip-hop street languuage [sic] with political discourse."

The facts: Imus' comment was not a part of any political discourse whatsoever; the remarks were made watching a basketball game.

Your assertion: "Jesse and Al have made mistakes, but they didn't do it as a host of a TV or Radio Show."

The facts: Is Al Sharpton on the radio or not? Many of the things he says on that show are much more racist than anything Imus has ever said; the reason it's conveniently ignored is because black people are entitled to be racist while white people are not. Just minutes ago I heard another news report defending the racism of black people on the grounds that "it's understandable." It's a veritable double-standard.

Your assertion: "How many Blacks anchor or host any TV or Radio show with a political opinion? NONE, Zero, Nada."

The facts: In this very thread I mention Larry Elder, who hosts a political radio talk show on ABC Radio Networks. Al Sharpton is one other very obvious example. Your assertion is blatantly wrong. The reason there aren't as many blacks hosting political radio talk shows is that there are more whites than blacks in America, and therefore more whites than blacks involved in political discourse.

Your assertion: "White Guilt lives on until white hate of everything non-white becomes love."

The facts: This sentence of yours is entirely unintelligible.

The Governor of the State of New Jersey was on his way to the meeting between Imus and the Rutgers womens basketball team when he was involved in a car accident and was badly hurt. He was NOT wearing his seatbelt which is required by law. A lot of people want to give him a free pass on this. Not me, he should get a ticket. The seat belt law was passed in part to reduce injuries and therefore costs to insurance companies. The costs are reflected in the premium rates and New Jersey alrady has the highest insurance rates in the country.

chuck burnz #44; is the US part of a "white Supremist World empire?" Well we'd better enjoy it while we still can, in the next few decades if demographers are correct, causasians will be a minority of the overall population in the US.

Boldly to go ... surely!

I can't imagine the star trek line being anything other than "To Boldly Go"...any other way you form the sentence it just sounds a bit crap - it's a good example of how a split infinitive has great stylistic effect - in this case to highlight the word "boldly."

SG

Don Imus is a good man. He is a victim of the double-standard hypoctitical culture that protects racists like Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson while reacting in selective outrage to a single error made by Don Imus.
So many people have said "I do not listen to Don Imus, nor have I everwatched his show...but I feel he should be banned..."?
Well, there's intelectual dishonesty if I ever saw it.
I heard the infamous remarks in context, in perspective, and while they were in poor taste and rude, they were not the sort of remarks that would get ANY member of the liberal left so much as a slap on the wrist.
Hillary Clinton made a rude remark in public about Gandhi and people from India. Was there any public outcry for her removal? No.

Don Imus is a good man. He is a victim of the double-standard hypoctitical culture that protects racists like Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson while reacting in selective outrage to a single error made by Don Imus.
So many people have said "I do not listen to Don Imus, nor have I everwatched his show...but I feel he should be banned..."?
Well, there's intelectual dishonesty if I ever saw it.
I heard the infamous remarks in context, in perspective, and while they were in poor taste and rude, they were not the sort of remarks that would get ANY member of the liberal left so much as a slap on the wrist.
Hillary Clinton made a rude remark in public about Gandhi and people from India. Was there any public outcry for her removal? No.

Still no sign of Davy Gravy justifying his initial response to me, no?

Figures.

SG

All this seems to come down to the fact we're entering a new age:

The Age of Apology.

In recent days the seized Brits apologised under duress for straying into Iranian waters; Imas pleads to a Rutgers' team (that never heard of him) for forgiveness and apologises profusely; Quickly followed by Nifong the Duke DA who tried to lynch those players falsely accused of rape); Now comes word that World Bank chief Wolfolwitz has apologised for helping a (girl) friend secure a high posting.

All this seems to come down to the fact we're entering a new age:

The Age of Apology.

In recent days the seized Brits apologised under duress for straying into Iranian waters; Imas pleads to a Rutgers' team (that never heard of him) for forgiveness and apologises profusely; Quickly followed by Nifong the Duke DA who tried to lynch those players falsely accused of rape); Now comes word that World Bank chief Wolfowitz has apologised for helping a (girl) friend secure a high posting.

I agree that this is the 'Age of Apology'. I mentioned American Idol on my radio show the other day and said that, with contestant Haley having been voted off this week, there aren't any good-looking girls left in the competition. My point was that there aren't any 'full-package' Idols left; just some reasonably good singers without a hope of commercial success. Well the complaints started to come in on Thursday, and by Friday morning we'd decided it would be the perfect time to parody the Don Imus thing and issue an 'apology'. My apology was prerecorded with a bed of some soft piano music, and went something like this:

"Good morning. This is John Wright. On yesterday's show I offended some listeners with my description of the remaining girls on American Idol, saying they looked as though they had been 'beaten with an ugly stick.' These remarks were indefensible, vulgar and inappropriate. I apologise unreservedly to the girls of American Idol, some of whom don't resemble sticks in the slightest, let alone ugly sticks. I also apologise to you, the listeners, and to the management of this station who employ me in good faith. I hope that arrangement will continue."

I never said 'ugly stick', but it played it up sufficiently and was funny in itself. It was accompanied by a PSA saying that management were reviewing the situation. For the rest of the day we had calls of support; people that were just incredulous that I would be forced to apologise, most of whom mentioned Imus and were supportive of him too. Management had calls requesting that they not fire me.

We played a joke, but it was tinged with the reality of this week's detestable assault on rationality and freedom of choice, the wielding of politically-correct power against multiple award-winning broadcasting legend, Don Imus. Shame on them.

I'm a white American woman who is a longtime fan of women's college basketball. When Don Imus insulted the Rutgers' Scarlet Knights team, he insulted ten student-athletes, ten young women, eight of them black, two white. I was appalled.

Carol- You wouldn't even have heard it had it not been for the media witch-hunt that occurred after a media watchdog sent a clip out to hundreds of journalists. Do you get "apalled" everytime someone says something you disagree with, even if you don't hear it? I'd say Imus and the girls of Rutgers all got dragged into the storm of a slow news day. That's what's apalling.

I am amazed that this story has the reach and the legs that it seems to have. I agree with the comment that the viral spread of an out-of-context clip was the reason anyone heard it beyond its 30-second airtime. Doesn't excuse it; a terrible, graceless, insensitive slur. However, Imus' firing, over something blown so quickly out of proportion, despite apparently sincere apologies (and ill-advised prostration at the feet of one who has sinned many and worse times WITHOUT apology), and, ultimately, forgiveness by the offended ladies of the Rutgers team, is beyond the pale. Imus is NOT merely a shock jock; he is the facilitator of discourse by a wide variety of speakers on a spectrum of topics, and a campaigner for numerous causes, including wounded American servicemen, Katrina victims,and autistic and grievously ill children, to name a few (punctuated, unfortunately, by needlessly mean and demeaning "humor"). An opportunity is lost for his participation in a national discussion of the quality and kind of discourse that should be taking place in the US. Imus at his worst is just as he was at the time of the famed utterance. Imus at his best is a formidable force for intelligent discussion of important issues, including this one. I agree his remarks had no place on the airwaves; I disagree with the end result.

Eleanor- I'm with you on virtually everything you said. Imus is an entertainer; that's what he does. His remarks weren't to be considered a sincere or serious assessment of anyone; they were the lingual equivalent of making a blonde joke. It was humour that played on a stereotype, and wasn't particularly well thought-out. Little did Imus know that there are politically correct, interfering morons behind every radio dial just waiting to snare someone for a 'racist' remark. I see now most of the news outlets are referring to the remarks not as 'racist' anymore but as 'racially insensitive'. That's a little closer to the truth.

By the way, what part of Arizona are you writing from? I live and work in Arizona myself, near the Colorado River on the border at California.

I'm in Tucson, down near the border with Mexico. I would love to be closer to water, as you are!

Yes, I've been touring the news websites and blogs, too. Sentiment, for the moment, seems to be swinging away from "hang him!" and more toward pleas for proportionality. Al and Jesse are being pressed for commitment to a much more just crusade against rampant degradation of black women in rap culture and among comedians like Dave Chappelle (who reach and influence many more young people than Imus can hope to). Imus will land on his feet, I think; at 67, however, time is not his ally. We'll see whether he reinvents himself based on this, or arrogantly proves his critics right by reversion to his shock jock "type." I believe he is truly contrite about all this; we'll see if it affects his on-air persona, when he pops up, again.

John:

Someone wrote in my own blog that the guy who sits across from Imus, Charles McCord, is a born-again Christian.

See 'Born Again' in the link below:

He is the guy in the center of the photo on the "Nappy-headed Hos" thread at the same link.

Michael

Eleanor- I've heard so much about Tuscon and never been there. I hope to visit soon, as it's one of the only areas of the state I haven't seen yet. I've heard lots of good, though! I agree it'll be interesting to see if Imus manages to recover (perhaps on satellite radio - could he find himself on the same payroll as his old foe, Howard Stern?). I have no doubt that his 'style' won't change, but perhaps the targets of his humour will become more carefully selected without losing the edge that he's been known for.

Michael- I believe your comment was right about McCord, and neither he nor Imus are 'bad' people, if you ask me.

But don't you feel that America is a much better place now that Imus is off the air? It's almost palpable. Young African-American women everywhere are safer, and puppies and other small furry animals are finally free from his reign of terror.

Guilty as Charged
Racists's, John Wrong and those that agree
Where is the black man on TV or radio mocking whites and getting away with it Daily?
Are you dillusional John Wrong. For your info they set up AI for a White Guy this year, A Justin Timberlake effigy will be picked.There are no winners.

My question would have to be, who did Imus piss off? He's gotten away with much worse on his show before. So somebody somewhere must have been waiting with baited breath, so to speak, for him to trip up. As a female, I am very insulted by the 'ho's' remark. Although I am white and not an athlete, I have struggled in my own industry to keep my clothes on and achieve success by hard work. I have seen women with lower standards advance rapidly in their chosen fields. I don't care. It's my body and I will deal with it my own way. These women are NOT ho's. It's a linguistic shame that rappers with drug histories and criminal gang memberships have destroyed black women with this tiny word. These women were working hard to earn something on their own merit. They didn't HAVE to be whores. They were good at their jobs! I am glad Imus is gone. He was boring, rude, and outdated anyway. I just wish the stinking rap culture was as easy to fire.