Northern Ireland's abortion debate gathers pace
I witnessed a rare ecumenical protest staged earlier today outside Belfast City Hall. Protestant and Catholic Anti-abortion campaigners gathered to mark the and to explain to members of the public why they believe it would be wrong to extend that Act to Northern Ireland.
Jim Dowson, the leader of the organised the protest. On display were some extremely gruesome pictures of aborted foetuses. I asked Jim if he was concerned that young children might be distressed by these images as they walked past City Hall with their parents. He explained that some children actually walk up to the images and kiss them, then ask their parents what happened to the babies in the pictures.
Needless to say, this was an extremely emotive protest and it is an intensely emotive debate. The Northern Ireland Assembly debated the issue of abortion on Monday. On tomorrow's Sunday Sequence, we'll debate the question with Jeffrey Donaldson MP MLA, who spearheaded opposition to any extention of the Abortion Act to Northern Ireland during that debate. He'll be joined by a leading pro-choice campaigner within Parliament, the Lib Dem MP Dr Evan Harris, Audrey Simpson of the Family Planning Association and the commentator and educator Michelle Marken.
Comments
I liked it better when the Protestants and Catholics were killing each other. When people from different religions come together, you know something very evil will come of it.
Mark,
What a great way to begin the debate! Your observation is not only pretty offensive, it's also philosophically and factually erroneous.
I struggled with this morning's discussion of the abortion debate on SS. Evan wasn't given a fair hearing, and I was more than slightly disturbed to learn that one of Belfast's prominent grammar schools does not include information on contraception in it's sex education- instead the young people are taught about 'the right way to approach relationships.' NI needs to move into the 21st century. This may not mean abortion on demand, but it may mean making this option more open for women for whom it is the only sane choice.
corb lund #2
So you have no problem with America's "neo-cons" a strange alliance of the Christian right who demand a war in the Middle East to throw all the Moslems out of what they consider Biblical Israel even if it means slaughering millions, all to hasten the second coming of Christ. I suppose you don't have any problems with the joining of Shia and Suni militias to throw the coalition out of Iraq so that they can fight amongst themselves over just which sect will set up the next inhuman Islamic theocracy there. And of course the joining of Protestants and Catholics in NI to prevent young girls impregnated by rapists or their male relatives from having a legal abortion is just your cup of tea. After all each new life is precious, a potential lifelong contributor to one church collection plate or another. As I said something very evil will come out of it and it will be far more offensive than my mere words. By the way, could you point out my error.
I struggled with this morning's discussion of the abortion debate on SS. Evan wasn't given a fair hearing, and I was more than slightly disturbed to learn that one of Belfast's prominent grammar schools does not include information on contraception in it's sex education- instead the young people are taught about 'the right way to approach relationships.' NI needs to move into the 21st century. This may not mean abortion on demand, but it may mean making this option more open for women for whom it is the only sane choice.
His Grace posted on this matter yesterday, and was surprised to learn of the demise of the previously absolutist position of the Roman Catholic Church in England, Wales and Scotland. By arging for a reduction in the abortion time limit, as opposed to the aboltion of the practice altogether, the cardinals are playing right into the hands of those who advocate that the rights of the woman trump the rights of the foetus (except, of course, when it comes to smoking, or drinking...)
Evan Harris talked more than any other guest on Sunday Sequence's abortion discussion so I don't know how SW thinks he wasn't given a fair chance. If anything, he dominated the discussion entirely. I would like to have heard more from the others in fact, I was fed up with Harris lecturing NI people on our society. I was also AMAZED that he accused crawley of being pro-life. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I have it on very good authority from a friend who was taught by crawley that he's actually very pro-choice in his views (he probably even agreed with Evan's point, ironically enough). If evan wants to be heard on this subject in Northern Ireland, I think he come here and talk to those who actually live here.
There is little doubt that the abortion issue has left our nation with innocent blood on its hands. Why some would wish to import such an appalling measure into Northern Ireland escapes me - and, thankfully, the majority of right thinking people here.
Even David Steel, who introduced the notorious 1967 Act, now regrets the number of abortions is has produced, and everyone knows that most terminations are done for social rather than health reasons.
With so many couples queueing up to adopt, abortion - the ultimate child abuse - is not only nauseating but also nonsensical.
The Assembly has made a wise decision.
Mark #4,
Your error is very simple. In your response you offer a number of examples whereby people use religion to do evil- although some of your examples are more caricature than fact. I don't think any right thinking person would seek to defend those who do evil in the name of religion. However, your original comment stated: "When people from different religions come together, you know something very evil will come of it." This is simply untrue. People of different religions come together every day to do good and important things - in fact people of different religions came together to oppose the war in Iraq, to try to bring peace to the Middle East, to seek to alleviate the plight of those living on less than a dollar a day. As I said your suggestion that we 'know' evil will come from people of different religions joining together is factually erroneous - worse than that it's just plain lazy!
The Church of Rome uses such things as "abortion" as an ecumenical tool, to bring themselves and protestants together whilst all the time the roman system of antichrist holds onto her false doctrines and false gospel, leading souls to hell.
corb lund #9
Thank you for making my point for me.
Those who opposed the war in Iraq before the invasion would have left America open to what every major intelligence agency in the world believed would happen, an Iraqi attack on the US on its own territory.
Those who opposed the war after the invasion would leave ordinary Iraqis to face their fate alone at the hands of the insurgent terrorists and ultimately to a theocracy like Shia Iran or Taleban Afghanistan.
They tried to bring peace to the Middle East and the situation is worse than ever. They tried to force the Israelis to give up land for empty promises of peace and they did, Gaza. And now the land they gave up is used for nothing except launching rockets at Israeli homes while the Palestinians are killing each other as they starve in hopelessness.
So they sought to alleviate the plight of those living on a dollar a day and now having saved the world, the population has doubled and we are all faced with extinction through global warming. Next thing you'll want me to cut back my thermostat from 75 to 65 in the winter, raise it from 65 to 75 in the summer, and give up my SUV. No dice, you make my sacrifice for me if you care so much.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And nobody knows more about the road to hell then religious people. That's why I have a credo I always live by; "neither a follower or leader be." When they come knocking at my door with their petitions, their begging bowls, their pleas for me to donate my time and effort, they get the door slammed in their face regardless of what their cause is. I won't endorse any of them. I'll send them to your house from now on instead.
Mark wrote
"Those who opposed the war in Iraq before the invasion would have left America open to what every major intelligence agency in the world believed would happen, an Iraqi attack on the US on its own territory."
For goodnes sake, I'll bet some politicians must be awfully jealous of the White House for the spin doctors they employ. If you can make people believe that, then you're in a pretty comfy position.
Mark,
Thanks for your response (10). I'll have to admit to being a little confused. I'm not exactly sure what point I made for you. Perhaps mention of the war in Iraq has clouded the issue?
I think my initial complaint was your insistence that "When people from different religions come together, you know something very evil will come of it." As I've already pointed out this is simply not true. I can say this for at least two reasons. Firstly, there are lots of examples of people of different religions coming together were evil does not result. Secondly, your point confuses cause and effect - yes it is true that people of different religion have come together to cause evil, but this does not mean that every time people of different religions come together that evil will result. I find it really hard to believe that you don't see the point I'm making here.
As for the rest of your response I'm struggling to understand what you're saying and what this has to do with the point we're discussing? For the record: I have no intention of telling you how to set your thermostat or what sort of vehicle you should drive!!