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I remain hopeful that whatever recommendation the working party comes to it will not add to the divisive nature of schools in NI. I have experience of teaching in both sectors, including the teaching of RE and the defining factor is the students and teachers not the presence or absence of a cross on the doorway. In light of recent events a shared educational experience must be part of evolving a shared future.

Why on earth on would the Catholic church share schools with Anglican? We have schools and they don't - they gave them up years ago. It's like Ross's lemondade promoting a joint merger with Coke.

In response to above comment, the question of ownership of education arises. Schools are about the possession and distribution of knowledge within a shared space. This infers openness and empathy which are not the characteristics of the market as applied in the soft drinks analogy. Children deserve better than to be an extension of some educational logo.

I believe all education should be secular, so have no real interest in this proposal, however, mccamleyc, you are not, strictly speaking, correct. The jurisdiction of the two primates is all-island and the CoI still has many schools in the south and, indeed, there are still CoI controlled primary schools even in the North.

The reality of life in the South is that many CoI schools now draw a considerable percentage of their student intake from Catholic families and the mix is natural and unremarked.

I agree with Cardinal Brady. Bringing children up in a faithbased home should not be regarded as a sectarian upbringing. Bringing them up in schools that link faith to their education should not be regarded as a sectarian education. Dawkins tried to make the argument that even calling our children "Christian" was a form of child abuse. These arguments show how intolerant the new atheists really are. In the case of Northern Ireland, children educated at single-identity catholic schools are not being taught to hate Protestants. They are being taught to love their neighbour and Christ taught us to love, they are learning about the rich Christian tradition and they are wrapping prayer and Christian reflection into the flow of their day. Let's stop trying to present that kind of education as a sectarian problem. That's deeply unfair to the schoolteachers who work hard in those schools to challenge sectarianism. It's unfair to the Christian faith too. Christianity is a faith based on the love of God revealed in his Son: once children encounter that love, they are encouraged to model their lives on Christ. He was not sectarian.

Hi jovia, faith based education was tried in NI for about 60 years and we ended up with a bloody sectarian conflict. Do you not think that faith based education contributed to this? At the very least you must see that in your terms it has failed because the little children certainly did not grow up to "love their neighbour".

I think that the Churches should invest more time and energy in supporting the teaching of RE as it can only but help develop the character of our young people. An outdated Core Syllabus at KS4 is not going to help educate pupils about diversity in an appropriate way. This should be the priority and not fast forwarding to the creation of joint schools. Having visited Church schools in England I noticed very little evidence of association with religion. RE teachers need support and aren't getting it!

*6 nobledeebee. Your logic makes no sense. There was a conflict in Northern Ireland that had nothing to do with Catholic schools. Some paramiliataries wer eeducated in catholic schools and some were educated in state-run mostly Protestant schools. Nothing follows from either fact about the quality of education in either school system. You seem to think that terrorists are deeply committed churchgoers. That is nonsense. The conflict here was much more complex than this quite typical reductionism.

Portwyne - I think you'll find that the Church of Ireland has a tiny number of schools - a few in the south and, have they any schools in the north at all? So the analogy seems appropriate enough - they would gain a lot, the Catholic Church would lose.

mccamleyc - the Church of Ireland controls schools both North and South of the border - an admittedly tiny number in the North but a very considerable number in the South where most parishes would have a school at 'National' level. There are also CoI secondary schools and even a specifically CoI teacher-training college in Dublin.

I posted previously to correct your error of fact, let me take issue with you on your point of substance.

Your post # 2: what a shining example of Christian ethical thinking. Let me paraphrase: we have bread and you have none, why on earth should we even consider sharing? Wonderful Christian teaching; from which of the parables did you draw that lesson? I hope you weren't educated in a Catholic school yourself: that would be a too terrible indictment of their ability to inculcate a Christian ethos in their pupils.

Segregation of children in education, whether on the basis of the religion of their parents, intellectual ability, economic advantage or social standing, is, to use the word de nos jours, an abomination. Only comparative religion should have a place on the school curriculum. It is the role of parents and churches, should they so choose, to educate in faith and religious practice, not the role of schools.

Jovial's post # 5 presents a Utopian vision of faith-based schools which is very far removed from the history of sectarian education in this island. If I presented that picture to one of my best friends, a convent educated but, even as a child, utterly non-conformist individual, she literally would be torn between laughing and crying.

I would not wish this posting to be seen as an anti-Catholic rant: the growth of so-called Christian schools teaching nonsense as science and, actually, pernicious nonsense as religion is a phenomenon which concerns me greatly and should concern us all.

I believe very firmly that religion has its place but that place is not the school: we find God all around us in the journey of life if we but open our eyes. Indoctrination, however, if I may borrow from your lemonade metaphor, merely promotes mental caries.

6. Jovia it is not the "quality" of education that is under review, it is the practice of segregating children from the age of 4 on religious grounds. As for terrorists being churchgoers eg. Martin McGunness, was a committed terrorist and attends mass regularly, and if you go to the Clonard novena you could well bump into a certain Mr. Adams.
On the other side there is quite a history of Reverends and Pastors turning up at rallies and protests alongside various paramilitary groups.I don't remember the Rev. Pickering exactly distancing himself from the Drumcree protests, with its blast bombs and stone throwing.

nobledeebee

I teach, in a state (not integrated) school comprised of a pupil population drawn from both NI communities, and many overseas communities. We also have a thriving cross community link running and their isn't one hint of sectarianism in what we do each day; I'm also a Christian, and I'm also inclined to agree with portwyne about non-religious education, but I'm also fed up with the endless 'blame it on religion' stereo-typical comments on this blog. (come to think of it maybe someone needs to rewrite the old Jacksons song Blame it on the Boogie as an atheist anthem) so maybe you will forgive this off hand sarcastic remark, or maybe it might actually provoke some meaningful debate about the future of education and the division in our communities on this thread...

Violence in the Holylands - Christians to Blame.

Christians are to blame because it was

(1) A Saint's holiday.
(2) Because some of the rioters went to Mass once.
(3) Because some of the rioters went to Sunday School once
(4) Because one of the rioters said a prayer every morning in school
(5) Because the word 'holy' is in the name of the area where the rioting took place.
(6) Because QUB employs chaplains

Ban religion, obviously, oh yes, and educate all our third level students together, opps! we already do that.

Sorry, I'm tired and cranky!

Those joint Catholic/Protestant schools already exist. They are called state schools.
Brady's answer to "the immorality of selection and the 11-plus" is to endorse unregulated/regulated testing while claiming to be anti-selection.
Is it possible for a Catholic Cardinal to be more unclear? Perhaps his contribution to joint faith schools will top it.