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There is something very fishy indeed about this business: if the Catholic Church had a base on the moon would one of the three have been sent there!

Fr Felic Felden in his response to the letter from parishioners certainly does not address their concerns when he writes:

"It is not helpful when Catholics without intimate knowledge of the matter spread speculations, or protest against the apostolic visitation in the public sphere, as they create scandal and might dangerously harm the Church and the Oratory of Birmingham."

To a non-believer like myself this seems like a form of moral blackmail. The parishioners want only to know the truth, and would not the truth dampen all speculation and remove the whiff of any scandal?

I have no idea why the Catholic Church has done this, and there is no indication why in the article, however, three things to bear in mind:

1] a basic rule of natural justice is to hear both sides. If the Church has reasons for doing this, you might argue that it should give them, but that leads on to...

2] we no longer live in the Middle Ages. These men are free to leave the Church and give their side of it. They haven't done so either.

3] Having Ruth Dudley Edwards on your team immediately makes me suspicious.

Please give details of the "Sunday morning" update. Will it be on radio? On LISTEN AGAIN? Will there be a transcript?

This matter of the BIRMINGHAM THREE is a concern in many parts of the world.

Presumably Ruth Dudley Edwards became involved because she knows Fr Fenlon personally? That's a sufficient reason, surely?

This is an interesting post not least that I believe you use my photo of the Church. Michael Shiels former sacristan, God rest his soul, is blurred out on the left of the picture.

You should ask Mr Valero why, precisely, the 'Three' are not being permitted to attend the Beatification, since they worked so hard to make it possible through their contribution to Newman's Cause. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that Fr Selden fears they will have an opportunity to speak to the Holy Father in person & expose his 'visitation' for the bungling farce that it is.

If possible I would rather it was removed thankyou.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Well, I think you refereed that bout very fairly. What emerged clearly is that Mr Valero, despite being a spokesman for the Birmingham Oratory, doesn't know very much more than the rest of us what's been going on. Can it really be true that he's never even met Fr Selden? He didn't deny this. He did however say that Fr Selden was preparing to speak to the press (can we have an interview, please, rather than another press release?). Until then, with gagging orders all round & a inadequately briefed spokesman, we are all being left in the dark. The way this visitation has been handled has been a positive invitation to speculation & gossip, both among those who want to attack Fr Fenlon, Fr Cleevely & Brother Berry ('Ooh, there's no smoke without fire, you know!'), and among those who want to attack the visitation team ('It's all a conspiracy!'). I have no reason to attribute any malice to Fr Selden, but to an outside observer it seems that his visitation has been a shambolic failure.

Hello, when will the program be available on the iPlayer? Great program. Thanks!

Forgive me for re-opening comments on this rather old post, but I feel I should modify what I have said in the two previous comments. Although I was at one time an employee of the Birmingham Oratory, and have known several members of the community for more than a decade, as regards the current situation I am very much an outsider, and like perhaps many other observers I have been somewhat misled by the misrepresentations of the situation that are so widely disseminated in the media & the blogosphere. While it remains deeply regrettable that three or four members of the Oratorian community are now likely to be absent from the beatification of their founder, the fact is that no-one outside the community has the full story about how this situation has arisen. If Mr Valero himself is uncertain about some of the details, or unwilling to say in public all that he does know, that in itself is not unreasonable; the difficulties that have arisen in Edgbaston are private matters of the internal life of the Oratory, and even a spokesman need not be taken fully into the confidence of those for whom he speaks.

Regarding my own comments, I have certainly spoken hastily (always the temptation with blogs that allow comments!). I had been given the impression from various reports that Fr Felix Selden had acted in a somewhat cavalier manner in deciding to exclude 'the Three' from residence at Birmingham. I fear this impression is widespread, but I am increasingly convinced that it is false. I was not aware, when making these comments, that Fr Selden had already spent a year living in the Birmingham Oratory himself. This would suggest that the decision made in May was the conclusion of a long, but sadly unsuccessful, attempt to reconcile the community from within. To call the visitation a 'bungling farce' and a 'shambolic failure' is therefore unfair to Fr Selden. I apologise for using such language and I would not object if you decided to remove the comments in question. Certainly, one might say that recent events have constituted a 'PR disaster', but as the example of Pope Benedict himself has repeatedly shown, PR disasters can be manufactured by people using the media & communications technology, without any culpability on the part of those at the centre of such storms.

I will conclude this comment by repeating what I have already said on the 'Valle Adurni' blog: "I want to hear from the 'Three', not because I suspect some skullduggery & want to know the gory details, but quite simply because these are three of the clergy I most like and admire & I am very concerned about what they are continuing to be put through. I quite see that the gossip, which has become vindictive in some corners of the internet, may now itself be a part of the cross that these men have to bear ... my anticipation of this event [Newman's beatification] was heightened by the thought of seeing Frs Cleevely and Fenlon, and Br Berry, alongside the Holy Father on this historic day in the history of their House. Their absence - and indeed the absence of Fr Chavasse - will, for me, cast a long shadow over the event."

I do find the present situation regrettable, but it is not for me to cast blame.

Having said that much, I should probably correct one small error of fact in my last comment. The visitation lasted for a year; but Fr Selden did not actually live in at Birmingham for the whole of that period. So I was informed by someone who certainly is in possession of the facts.