³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

It's quite startling to put this kind of stuff into perspective. We often, in England, think of ourselves as soccer mad, as I am sure a lot of nations do such as Germany and Italy. However, the Latin and South Americans take it to a whole new level. Football really is the be all and end all for many and, as you have highlighted, can have wide reaching political consequences.

#1 - pretty much totally agree. It's very sad that a game has such vast implications, which often result in widespread violence and, ultimately, loss of life. It clearly means so much more to those who have little else in their lives; this is the one chance where everyone can just forget about everyday hardship, and share a common dream. I hope they do well at the World Cup, personally; I've got them in the Suremen sweepstake! :-S

yep, most case not a good thing

Really puts football it to perspective when lives are lost over the result of a match. The only thing now would be what would happen in Honduras if the team don't do well at the World Cup. Would disturbances in the country happen again if they didn't manage to get a win?

- English Footballers Abroad

Paul what do you think of their chances?

I feel that Honduras have a good base of players such as Suazo, Palacios, and the Wigan contingent of Figueroa and Thomas. They should put it some respectable performances hopefully.

Yeah the good Ol latinos will spill blood for a goal eh? Shocking! I would have expected some more background research information before that sort of positive racism is blogged...If you are going to blog about politics blog about it, and don't try to evade or paint over the uncomfortable issues.

Here is a more detailed account and perhaps a fairer explanation.

I was at the qualifying match in Honduras against the United States. We were expecting to see turmoil and political division, but what we experienced was a very united country. It wasn't that the people were supporting the imposed government, but they were upset with Zelaya for trying to bypass their constitution and turn them into a banana republic.

In the end, the Hondurans were among the friendliest and most hospitable fans of any of our CONCACAF opposition. At the end of the match, Honduras WC dream all but abandoned, the small cadre of 30 US fans huddled together prepared to be battered by missiles. Instead, thousands of Hondurans turned around and applauded us. Truly amazing.

It is known as The Football War but in the region it is known as The Six Day war. It really is incredibly simplistic to say the war was about football and a little patronising.

Paul, stick to trivial stories about ian holloway or some groundsman in the lower leagues. You're out of your depth here.

The title is obviously ridiculous only worsened by the ignorant comment, 'the political crisis in Honduras seems to be over'.

A democratically elected leader was ousted in a coup, Paul. This isn't a quirky blog about some mascot, it is required to be treated with more depth and seriousness than you have shown yourself capable of.

When mentioning that the following election was questioned by many observers, maybe it should also be included that Zelaya, the ousted president was banned from such an election and that all but colombia (who recieve more US military aid than the rest of South America combined) refused to recognise the government.

Football has not healed Honduras. In the same way, Brazil and Argentina's victories in '70 and 78' respectively, did not heal their countries. It could be argued quite the opposite that their sporting success aided the military juntas.

Maybe if El Salvador had qualified then Paul would be telling us how football resolved differences in opinion between Diesicoho and the Mara Salvatrucha?

Readers of this blog will do better to read some of the comments rather than the article itself.

the comments is very interesting!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Paul,

Thank you for taking the time to write about my country. Trying to explain Latin American politics and our passion for football is not easy and I think you've done a great job.

Don't worry about the sneer comments regarding what happened in Honduras last year; anyone who wants to uphold democracy should take interest in what is happening in Venezuela and Nicaragua instead of talking about Honduras.

The political crisis, as such is over, we have now restored diplomatic ties with 50 countries of the 65 that we had ties with before the events in June last year. The majority of the countries that refuse to recognise the new government are Hugo Chavez's allies (no big loss there for us).

What you are writing about is actually the theme of a documentary that is being produced in my country. The team's qualification has come when, as a country, we needed it most. Football is our passion and it brings us together. I wouldn't go as far as saying things would have been worse had the team not qualified (and they will definitely not deteriorate if we don't do well), but I absolutely agree it started the healing process, there is still a long way to go.
The movie is called A Common Goal

As to the nasty comments on 'Latinos' I will just say: look around you, Latin Americans are everywhere in London...we're bankers, bar tenders, insurers, brokers, chefs, wealth managers, lawyers, waiters, artists, football players, etc. Think of this before generalising, you might offend your boss.

I do like this article, however the reality of the matter was that the victory of the Honduran team was one of the final blows to Zelaya´s intentions on reforming the constitution for his own interests. I feel I can say that since I´m Honduran...I beared witness to the whole crisis. Zelaya and his supporters promoted the rejection of the Honduran National Team, they accused them of being "golpistas" or part of those responsible for the presidential ouster (the only one resposible for his ouster was Zelaya himself...and his godfather Chavez) There was graffitti all around the city insulting the team, etc...all with the interest of forcing more discord between the Honduran people and then exploiting it. When the team made it to the Cup, it served as evidence that Hondurans (all Hondurans) were Hondurans first and we wanted to achieve and progress, nobody wanted to sink into some sort of left winged blackhole that would bring riches and power only to Zelaya. We all rejoiced and Zelaya tried to correct his rhetoric against the team, but it as too late...everybody saw that he did not love his country...he did not love its people...he loved only himself. Needless to say, this sport brings hope to all and it always should (win or lose) since it is an embodiment of teamwork, cooperation, discipline,effort, endurance and love for nation...something that citizens of all nations should put forth for their own country.

Report from IACHR (part of OAS)

The unique democratically president of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya, was present and representing Honduras at the bicentenary celebrations held in buenos aires on tuesday

as for 'the majority of the countries that refuse to recognise the new government are Hugo Chavez's allies'...or in other words, almost all of Latin America refuses to recognise the 'government' currently occupying tegucigalpa.

what's more, as clau writes from london, 'who wants to uphold democracy should take interest in what is happening in Venezuela and Nicaragua instead of talking about Honduras.' i couldn't have put it better myself! :) anyone who wants to take an interest in democracy should look at venezuela and nicaragua, instead of honduras...haha perfect, clau-thanks for that one. someone may also wish to look at uruguay, brazil, paraguay and bolivia.

sadly, for the upper classes in latin america, democracy is strenghthening and the majority are advancing...hence many of them fleeing to work in miami, new york, madrid and london

greetings from latin america

I'm a British ex-pat living in El Salvador and I attended the game at Estadio Cuscatlan. There are rights and wrongs in the article but the one thing that I feel I should mention was that, on the whole, the Honduran victory was well received by the Salvadorans outside the ground after the game.

As my friends and I made our way to our cars after the game, there was disappointment from the Salvadoran fans but I witnessed numerous occasions where Salvadorans wished their Honduran counterparts "buena suerte" and shook hands.

To me *this* was the real story that was overlooked by so many when the game was played - whatever the upheaval in Honduras at the time, the wounds of past violence in these two countries has now been overcome to the extent that opposing nationalities could get along and have a beer after the game. Long may this continue...

I have lived in Honduras all my life and through the events of June 2008. Paul, the bit you wrote was a perfect portrayal of what the whole event meant for us. Of course, there would be a sense of exaggeration to claim that the qualification fixed the country, but there is no one here who could deny that it wasn't an integral part of the process. I attended every home game and those in the United States during the qualification process, and there is little else in the country that creates such a common ground for all the population; some of our greatest claims to international pride are the performances of players like David Suazo, Rambo de Leon, Palacios and Figueroa abrpad, and this generation of players who managed to get us to the World Cup will be a part of our history, as is the team that got there in 1982 (and Jonathan Bornstein) regardless of how well we do on the big stage.

As for the comments by "marko" I can only refrain myself to the extent of deeming you oblivious of what occurred in Honduras and that the opinion stated is hindered by the fact that you weren't here. This is a fact that is completely understandable. The way the media covered the events was personally disgusting and has made me lose a certain amount of faith in the reliability of certain news outlets, CNN and NBC News among others.

"Clau" has got it on the mark really. And for a clarification, if it is needed, I feel that there "marko" misunderstood a statement in the former's post. When "clau" stated that those who have interest in democracy should look to Venezuela and Nicaragua instead of Honduras, he was stating that Venezuela and Nicaragua's democracy is far from perfectly democratic as over the past decade it has started to practice increasingly socialist policies, similar to what you see in Cuba, and those who would have interest in establishing democracy would be wise to view those countries as they are as far from a democracy as you can get in South America.

Ivan, thanks for clarifying for me.

Paul, don't let this become a discussion on what happened in Honduras, the subject has been discussed to boredom for almost a year. Bottom line is we did what Venezuelans should have done years ago and we would do it all over again (albeit with a better PR strategy) in a blink.

Hondurans are thrilled to be in the World Cup, we live this game with passion and we can't wait to see our boys live our dream after a 28-year wait.

PS I'm a girl :)

@ f45y5y43

England is not the craziest about football. Turkey would better fit that description.

But as this article has pointed out it is on another level in South America.

I was there, doing a bit of wild travelling, and believe me there was some real HATRED ... and I mean total abhorence...they would really have killled each other just for idea of having of having relatives born in the other country.... watched some local football in these two Central American republic, and while the talant was something to be desired, the passion for the game was truely amazing...seen animals strolling across the pitch while play in progress and, a few machetes come out when too much excitement is aroused...hence this report is really on the level!

Go Honduras! Can't see them doing much, but if its helping the Hondurans then I guess it's win-win?!

@ El-Turco

...but is it on another level in Lam? I dont think so. This article certainly didnt show that. Half my family is from central america and yes when it comes to playing the game they are as obsessive as anyone... but when it comes to supporting a team there isn't the culture that there is in england. As i said in my previous post i find supporting a football team a rather pathetic way of life, and the english have got it down.

I think the point we can see here, is that if you begin to talk politics, you need to do a lot of work to portray correctly either both or even one side. Yes I meant to scold because clearly that hasn't been done. Just look at the comments on both sides.
I don't see much point in continuing the political discussion as this is essentiallly a football blog. But the haves, have computers and access to the internet and the have nots have nothing. Whose voice are we likely to hear the most in a political discussion?

Was it Wilson Palacios who's brother was kidnapped last year? Does anyone know what happened to him?

Hi Paul,

I work for Sony's digital agency and was looking to send you an email but can't find an address.

Give me a shout - harriet.pulford@daredigital.com

Thanks!

It is a fallacy to equate a movement (politically and economically) towards Socialism as being an automatic indicator of a more authoritarian regime. This is completely false. Socialism is completely compatible with Democracy; indeed, the philosophy of democratic socialism tries to bring these two concepts together to deliver a system of social and economic governance that is for everyone, not just the elite few. So I totally reject the assertion that a socialist government will inevitably move towards authoritarianism. If they do become autocratic, it is due to the personalities of the politicians rather than any problems in the actual theory of socialism.
In fact, a socialist system should in fact encourage the formation and maintenance of democratically elected institutions that are there for the benefits of the majority. For example, cooperative businesses, unions,etc, all institutions that are favoured by democratic socialists, and all are run in a way that everyone has a say, and that the weight of their vote is not related to their wealth. These institutions are truly the best of democracy. Contrast this with some of the thoroughly undemocratic practises of turbo-charged financial capitalism, where bankers in the US bullied Congress to pass the bailout, even though a significant proportion of the population found it abhorrent that private failures were being compensated for by public funds. Now answer me this, would anyone claim that such practises are democratic? I think I know the answer.
So please, STOP linking socialism with authoritarian dictatorship. Fox News may peddle that particular nonsense, but they have a vested interest in furthering this viewpoint. There is no reason for socialism to resemble the last days of the USSR. In fact, if you look at a look of socialist nations like Venezuela and Cuba, there are a lot of positive aspects of these countries that a lot of people in capitalist countries are envious of, such as the health care system of Cuba, and the efficient and equitable distribution of the economic benefits accrued from Venezuela's crude oil reserves.

Some people seem to be expressing the idea that everything is now ok in Honduras. To see the other side read the following report:


I've pasted the first two paragraphs here:

Washington, D.C., March 8, 2010—The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) condemns and laments the murders last month of three persons in Honduras who were active in the resistance to the coup d’état or related to activists. It also deplores the kidnappings, arbitrary detentions, acts of torture, sexual violations, and illegal raids to which other members of the resistance have been victims. The IACHR also expresses its deep concern over information it has received indicating that sons and daughters of activists are being threatened and harassed, and that in two cases they have been killed.

According to the information received, on February 3, 2010, 29-year-old Vanessa Zepeda Alonzo, who was active in the Resistance Front and was affiliated with the Social Security Employees Union, was found dead in Tegucigalpa. According to eyewitnesses, her body was thrown out of a car. Likewise, on February 15, 2010, Julio Funez Benitez, an active member of the resistance who belonged to the SANAA Workers Union, was holding a conversation on the sidewalk outside his residence in the Colonia Brisas neighborhood of Olancho when he was killed with two shots fired by unknown gunmen traveling on a motorcycle. Finally, on February 24, 2010, Claudia Maritza Brizuela, 36 years old, was killed in her home. She was the daughter of union and community leader Pedro Brizuela, who participates actively in the resistance. Two unknown individuals came to her door, and when she opened it, Claudia Brisuelas was shot and killed in front of her children, ages 2 and 8.

I'm English and have lived almost 40 years in Honduras - enough to know that FOOTBALL is the national opiate - it's their only sport and it really dominates the newspaper content, as well as the local weekend television. Commercial interests, politicians and even artists all exploit and contribute to this situation. The national following has grown to such an extent that on the recent world cup qualifier match days, at least half the local population (women, children and men) were decked out on the Honduran team's colours.

However it appears that this unifying and nationalistic phenomenon is certainly not limited to Honduras. Recently I spent an evening with my Honduran daughter and two of her friends, both young professional women, one from Nigeria and the other from Cameroon. The Nigerian woman astounded me with her facts and figures about the Nigerian soccer team from 1994 onwards - not at all the expected topic of conversation of a graduate student of civil engineering! But no mention was made whether the players were muslim or Christian or from the North or South. The woman economics research coordinator from Cameroon was even more informative about Eto'o's goal scoring abilities and those of all other players in her national team, be they Bantu, highlanders or from wherever.

She finished her "presentation" with a 1986 recording from a Cameroon group called Zangalewa. Apparently Shakira has borrowed it for the 2010 World Cup! I was reminded of the song that English football fans often sing - "Rule Britannia!" Strangely enough, that song was written to commemorate events in the "War of Jenkin's Ear", when the outraged British nation went to war over the unjustified hacking off by Spanish authorities of a suspected pirate's ear. And that war lasted more than eight years, a lot longer than a three week soccer war!

The great Bill Shankley once said "Football is not just a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that".
Nuff said.

this is everything a good blog should be - a catalyst to commentary. some really interesting first-hand accounts here. so thanks, paul, ignore the sneers, moanings a way of life for some people.

any chance of a blog about port vale at some point? the football culture in burslem is far more passionate than any south american country. im sure robbie will give you an interview.

"Rovers return (post 27). I'm afraid that his brother was killed."

For everything that is good about sport, there seems to be some who use it to further their own warped causes. It is a real shame to hear that, although I did imagine that would be the answer.

Good article mixing sport and politics, even though it is of course important to stress that Zelaya had been democratically elected and was effectively overthrown in a coup.

Anyone interested in more of the background to the Honduran team's qualification and the political background should check this out:

Hey Paul!
I have also spent time in South America and have seen the amazing unity it brings to the people there. I met people who have (in terms of money anmd possesions) literally nothing, yet when their country plays football its a release from all of lifes hardships. Complete strangers stahnd together almost anywhere you can imagone and cheer at the top of their lungs for their country to score a goal. So i can easily imagine the amazing effects that qualifying for the WC has done for Honduras.

Look at England. Ok we dont have the political turmoil thats happening in some countries in Central America, but we are none the less a bit of a broken nation at the moment with little community and culture. Could you imagine what England winning the WC would do this country and how happy and united people would be?

Football means so much to so many.

I will definntely be supporting Honduras as my second team in the world cup. Just one thing, ammending the consitution so that someone can stand as long as people vote for them is arguably more democratic than enforced fixed terms. It certainly does not constitute a dicatorship. It is what we have in the UK.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.