Friday's Glass Box
Welcome to the Glass Box - the place where you can comment on what you heard on PM, interact with other listeners and get responses from the people who make the programme. We hope this will be a useful tool for you and for us.
Just click on the "comment" link. If you've never commented on the Blog before - don't worry. There's a simple registration process you only have to go through once.
Don't worry either if you didn't catch the whole programme, or were busy doing other things and not giving us your full attention. If there was something that "caught your ear" we want to hear about it.
The Glass Box is named after the booth outside the PM studio where we all discuss the programme at 18.00 every weeknight. We try to be honest and constructive. Sometimes there is criticism, and the criticised get a chance to explain themselves.
And so it should be here. The people who make PM will read the comments posted, and will sometimes respond. Please feel free to post your thoughts. There is a link to previous Glass Boxes on the right.
Also on the right, you'll find lots of other links you might like. The Furrowed Brow for example is the venue where you can start talking about anything serious: The Beach is a fun place, and there are links to Blog entries with photos, audio and links.
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* Grrrrrrrrrrrr! *
Fifi
Well it's going at a cracking pace so far......thank goodness for the news, so we can all take a breath.
Still bl**dy cricket on the Long Wave today!
I am restricted for time on my internet connection and, so, cannot use the 'Listen Again' facility.
I hope that you are feeling better Monsieur Le Maire.
I liked the Russian chap who's trying to overthrow Yeltsin!
Now I'm completely lost - where do I go to join the Beach of Furrowed Brow ?? There aren't any links and it isn't visible from the Glass Box which suggests that it is translucent and not transparent.
Frustrated of Somerset..
Interesting to note that while the PM programme was commenting on the problems that Visa had encountered with their system, it remained silent about the notice on the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ radio player which says:
"We regret that some programmes are unavailable. We are working to restore normal service." presumably a technical problem for the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ too!
Well what a lovely production, Red Squares and Glass boxes. I do love the charming voices that are used to read through the weekly mailbag.
Poor Jacques - he missed a gem of a programme!
What's the latest score ? ;-)
7" (seconds) Reverend !
Was there a lot of debate today over the lead item? I am pretty tired of the Iran-sailors-story-selling story and a predictable response to a predictable petition seemed a bit weak as a lead. Still, slow news day again.
The item on the Norwegian boat tragedy was excellent, particularly the interviewee who managed to tell the awful story clearly and with insight and empathy. I suspect if the lost sailors had been Scottish, you would have led with that.
The two-way with Rory on the Visa cock-up managed to make a dull story into something worth listening too. Well done!
The Glass Box seems to be invisible and impenetrable. Am I already in it? Am I alone? How will I find my way back?
Izzy t'Me - Yeltsin? or Putin, perhaps ....
Sorry, Eddie, today was a 'busy' one for me and only caught about ten minutes of the programme. And I'd have loved to hear about Red Square. I'll be more attentive on Monday, I hope.
Philip (5) : Over on the right, in the pale blue panel, near the top, you'll find
* Signpost to the Beach
and
* The Furrowed Brow
Click on either of these, and then click on the most recent (ie top) of which ever one you've clicked on.
Hope that helps! I'm off to have a look at the Beach right now.
Byeeeeee!
Fifi
Good ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ coverage of the Iran Hostages/Stooges/Incompetent Spinners/Deadbeat New Labour politicians story. It has turned into:
'Carry On-Hello Sailor':
Kenneth Williams is Tony Blair
Charles Hawtree is Des Browne
Sid James is Sir Ivor Smallcock, First Lord of the Admiralty.
Hattie Jacques is (a sexier) Margaret Beckett
How our enemies in the 'Axis of Evil' countries must be shaking in their sandals as the 'War on Terror' is conducted by our tough, kick-ass politicians backed up by the dedication of the brave sailors of Shatt al Arab. 'They gave us blankets which were prickly' said one of them. Sounds a bit like the fate of the inmates of Guantanamo Bay, where I am sure similar atrocities happen.
In order to try to salvage something positive from the fiasco, perhaps the money from the stories sold could be put towards better equipment for our armed forces. Some decent compasses or up to date charts of Iraqi/Iranian territorial waters would be a start.
Eddie..........missed your broadcast but loved the Now show.
Robin
Big Sis - the newsreader said Yeltsin rather than Putin. Perhaps I should have mentioned that in my first.
Big Sis - the newsreader said Yeltsin rather than Putin. Perhaps I should have mentioned that in my first.
Eddie..........missed your broadcast but loved the Now show.
Robin
In the real Glass Box we discussed whether we made the right choice of lead story...
Enjoyed red square thing. and images are great. Visa problem interesting also. All my sales today were credit/debit and we had no problems. not sure what cards were being used by the patients though. and fifi is a multi-tasker as well as phone calls and listening she was also e mailing. Not the sort of things us men can cope with!
Alas, Stewart M, it was the listening that lost out. I did hear the Red Square piece and failed to grasp why it was supposed to be interesting.
This is AFTER I'd followed the link to the website article!
I think this reflects more on me than on the programme however.
Sorry.
Fifi
Eddie Mair (16) Personally, it doesn't matter much to me unless it's blazingly obvious that something catastrophic has happened, or if there's a story just breaking, though I suppose I would be miffed if one of the ''fluffy'' items took the lead.
Tonight's prog flowed very well, and as a humble listener I wasn't mentally scoring the items in terms of their greater or lesser significance. I think on a night like tonight it's pretty arbitrary and from my point of view it worked very well this evening.
I missed the whole programme - visitors. Lovely to see them so tried not to look at the clock too obviously as the precious minutes ticked away.
Still excited you put my tadpole picture on the blog though. My mum in New Zealand is probably even now clicking the link to see the photo of her latest grandchild...oh hang on, that's not right, is it? Well, her eyesight's not brilliant, & sometimes the computer is in advance of her skills, so who knows what she'll think, or where she'll end up? September, probably...
Haha,
Just a little chuckle at Annasee, BigSister, Fifi, Robin and myself -- who managed to miss a lot of the programme !
Re: Robin - I must say I agree with you that the Now show was extremely good. Was that really true about google and getting from the States to the UK via a swim across the Atlantic
I digress.
Re: eddie mair: In a programme like PM, after a news bulletin, where the order of stories *should* be in importance, I'd question, without looking through the Rajar figures, how much credence should be put against which order to run things. PM isn't rolling news - unless there is a valid reason.
I'd imagine the mobile (commuters) audience start to tune in anywhere between five and six. However I appreciate the dilemma.
(IMO) As long as the stories are relevent and colourful -as radio can do best- it's largely unimportant. I don't personally think PM needs a front page, unless there is a breaking story. It just happens to be that way through habit.
A little like Long wave carries the cricket although there is 'Five Live'.
A little like Radio 4 goes to bed at midnight although there is a huge overnight audience having to listen to the World service (available on MW and DAB - in certain areas) -
Whoops rambling again. :-(
Oh .. My last post .. but something I forgot to mention yesterday. The Quarterly news updates, bulletins, whatever, are essential.
I normally have News 24 going all day, but if I were a commuter I'd probably rely on those 2 mins to keep me informed and updated. I think you should have been questioning how the running order had omitted that from Thursdays edition rather than debating the order of lead items.
Eddie (16), Whaddaya mean "In the real Glass Box"??? Surely this is the real thing! Good grief!
I thought the coverage of "The Russian Story" was very well done, by the way: Good in-depth look at all perspectives. Missed the last 20 minutes of the programme -- sorry!
It was true Robin.
Well now -- type in:-
Boston to England in Google and then click on Maps.
Read through the traffic direction list! Really amazing, .. I can underastand swimming across the Atlantic - but then to end up in France!!
How do these errors occur?
Was it intentional?
Come on - it deserves a little explanation on PM! Ideal format for it?
But if you do - listen again to the Now Show Excerpt - very near the end :-)
not sure about the glass box as an idea but its made me come and have a look at this blog. more interesting than the telly tonight.
Jonnie (21) it's precisely because we're not rolling news that the order is so important. We went with the freshest story - but we had better material in the bag on the Russian story...while having a great correspondent - Colin Blane - standing by with a live report which was, not unexpectedly, brilliant. There was no "right" answer but I said in the meeting we probably had the wrong lead, and we spent some time discussing it.
Re: sailors in Iran waters. selling stories, etc
The GB sailors are there, I understand on UN duty, trying to stop drug smugglers, people smugglers, etc in those waters.
I assume the Iranians agreed with this activity at the UN ?
If they did why don't we invite an Iranian official to join each ship on a sortie and they can judge whether the UN ships are a threat to Iran and / or keep in touch with Iran and advise if the ships stray into 'their' waters.
Somebody really ought to let your newsreader (Fri 13/4. 5.43pm) know that the Russian Prime Minister's name is "Putin", not "Yeltsin". Or am I being too pedantic?
The thing I value about PM is the fact that the first half tends to be the grittier stuff and the second half tends to be the fluffier stuff.
I agree with the previous comments re: the quarter hour headlines - I used to leave work at 5 and would always miss the news at 5. Even now I occasionally get stuck at work until 5.30 and the headlines at 5.45 are really useful.
I wish I'd heard more about the (Scottish) capsize and less about the (Celebrity) Sailors. The Red Square thing on the radio didn't work for me to start with. The interview felt awkward. Loved the weblink though!
Karen @ 29
Re your comment about grittier first half and fluffier second.
While "fluffy" isn't perhaps the term we'd use at PM, I would say your point is broadly accurate, and I'd like to explain why.
When PM begins at 5, we're the first news programme on Radio 4 since The World At One some four hours earlier, and it's clearly our place to tell people what's been going on in the world that day. On the other hand, as PM comes to an end, it is followed by what is known as "The 1800" - 30 solid minutes of news.
That can put us at PM in something of a dilemma: "gritty" news stories will be on early in the 1800, so there's a risk of the same stories being heard twice in 30 minutes or so. Clearly there are times when that's unavoidable, and we can get round the problem by treating the story differently. But it also gives us more latitude to do "other" stories - those which won't necessarily make the authoritative 1800 bulletin. For example, we can do stories in a much longer form, such as Nigel Wrench's arts pieces, or we can have a discussion on an item that isn't necessarily "hard" news.
But overall I'd hope the broader range of items and the way we do them go to make PM the programme it is.
Re eddie mair (26), who said:-
It's precisely because we're not rolling news that the order is so important. We went with the freshest story - but we had better material in the bag on the Russian story...while having a great correspondent - Colin Blane - standing by with a live report which was, not unexpectedly, brilliant. There was no "right" answer but I said in the meeting we probably had the wrong lead, and we spent some time discussing it.
--------------------------------------
jonnie says:-
I'd like to see what other Bloggers think whether your hunch was correct or not.
I've set up an instant poll with links to the 'listen again' and glass box.
I'd have led with the Shetland disaster but I'm not an editor.
Jonnie (31) have voted and agree with you.
Now, I know this is about PM and specifically about Friday's PM, but.....
Does anyone else consider this morning's Today lead (and interminable time spent throughout) on the breakup of two young people's relationship, somewhat over the top? I ended up shouting ("I don't care") at the radio and turning it off.
It's not actually that I don't care - I do feel for them. But have to ask the question - is it of sufficient importance to be considered the lead news story on every bulletin since?
Perhaps I need a nice lay down in a hammock to calm down - I'm off to the beach.
Jonnie (24) and others re: "Swim Across the Atlantic Ocean"
Take a peek at the April 1st Beach. Scroll down, and you'll discover that "Swim across the Atlantic Ocean" has been live for a few weeks (at least).
And I noticed it in another forum...
re; mittfh,
ok, just seen your posting on April 1st beach. Perhaps that's where the 'Now Show' got the idea from.
NBPMarc (30) Thanks for your explanation which was very well put. You are so right about the broader range of items and the way you do them. That is what has kept me listening for a long time.
Izzy (32) I'm with you on that one. It's irritated me several times today. As far as I'm concerned, it's a totally private matter
Gillian (35) Izzy (32)
Totally agree. Given that neither Miss Middleton nor Clarence House have made any comment how has the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ managed to devote so much airtime to it?
Izzy (32) I heard it too and wondered why they were wittering on so long about it. Far too much was made of it when it was happening too. It's like 'Lady Di' all over again.
And Jonnie (37) yes - wasn't there a time when the headlines in the tabloids wouldn't even get a mention on 'serious' new progammes? Now they all seem to carry the same stuff!
Re GM (39) The paper review after the 8'oclock news today - did you hear it?
Re; Jerry Cornelius (SB40) who said:- I'd also like to express my sympathies to the person who said that they have News 24 on all day.
- - - - -
That was very touching, and Thank you. It is a bit sad actually. I am seeking treatment and a little like my caffeine addiction I'm trying to keep it on the back burner ;-(
And finally the lead story poll --
----------------------------------------------------
have YOU voted yet ? Here are the results so far.
"The Royal navy personnel held by Iran and selling their stories"
1 of 12 total votes (8.3%)
"kremlin sees red after an Exile in London calls for a new Russion Revolution."
0 of 12 total votes (0%)
"Hopes fade for five people missing after ship capsizes off Shetland "
8 of 12 total votes (66.7%)
"The order of stories is of no concern as I listen to the programme in full"
3 of 12 total votes (25%)
Click here to zero the votes for this option.
To participate click on this link.
Having just heard the latest disturbing news on Alan Johnston may I say that my thoughts are with his friends colleagues and family.
As a print journalist for many years, I would question the merit on running a story for the reasons Eddie gives above. There was far too much time spent on the Russian story, which was of little interest to our general public.
The order of priority is normally a gut instinct, and on this occasion I think it was wrong.
With reference to the Royal split, the tabloid sales will dictate the real interest, and I suspect sales were high.
Alan Dunwoody (41) The tabloids?! It was even on the front page of the Sunday Times, something which made me think twice about buying it.
Jonnie (40) no I missed it, only turned on just before BH. Can you fill me in? Was appalled to hear that the Royal split was going to be on BH! Had to be somewhere else so didn't hear how much coverage they gave it. Get it off! Get it off! (so to speak!!!)
Re runing orders etc...
Unless there is some startling new revelation about the sailors/Des Browne situation apperas could I point out that a quick 'sum-up' may be all thats required as its really becoming quite tedious. No developments, no new insights, no come back to the sailors (btw were they allowed to keep their money?), no real 'story' to this.
It may be a bit close to home but I would like to hear more about how governments go about finding hostages, such as Alan, when no demands are made etc. What does go on behind the scenes? How can you possibly proceed? I think PM is perfectly placed to delve behind the surface of things and should really expand on this.
Voting has now closed.
Poll Results
"The Royal navy personnel held by Iran and selling their stories"
3 of 19 total votes (15.8%)
"kremlin sees red after an Exile in London calls for a new Russion Revolution."
1 of 19 total votes (5.3%)
"Hopes fade for five people missing after ship capsizes off Shetland "
11 of 19 total votes (57.9%)
"The order of stories is of no concern as I listen to the programme in full"
4 of 19 total votes (21.1%)
My response to Saturday’s programme:
In common with other broadcasts of the day, you appear to have taken the information that a member of a certain family splitting up with his partner is news (1). Not only that but headline news (2). And then your extended item covered this by exploring speculation (3) about pressure from the media (4) being behind this occurence. I have numbered all the ways in which your programme has therefore added even further media pressure.
I do, of course, recognise that there were actual news items on the programme.
Today's newsletter includes the following:
' We make it into The Sun today. The paper's Whip column points out that we goofed on Friday, and no-one noticed. Sure enough, I've just checked back and the script was indeed written:
' "The Foreign Office says it will be looking closely at remarks made by the Russian tycoon, Boris Berezovsky, in which he apparently calls for President Yeltsin to be forced from office."
' Deputy heads will roll.'
I have emailed the following:
' I never noticed the goof when it happened. But I did notice that several froggers had noticed.
' So, how about a 'panic button' on the blog, similar to the 'Oh my God it's September again' link, so that eagle-eared froggers with access to a PC at least have the opportunity to save you from yourselves before the bongs beat you to it?
' It might never be used ... but it should be possible to leave that in-box open during the programme where the Editor can see it. Just in case. Think how much more smug you'd be feeling now, had you been able to put in an ironic little apology before six!
' I would NOT, however, broadcast this facility on air, as you're bound to get malicious or mischievous messages. Just introduce it calmly on the blog, as you did with the Furrowed Brow, and those who care will know what to do.
' Interfering. It's what I do. ;o)
Fifi '
Think it might work?
What on earth was Ann Clwyd blethering about? Loyalty to her party and government is to be expected but this silly woman clearly has no grasp on the real issues behind the Iranian kidnapping, the subsequent media handling issue, its impact on the Services (especially the Royal Navy) nor the political accountability for the whole sorry affair. Since she is Tony Blair's 'Special Envoy to Iraq', is it surprising so little progress has been made in the country's development?