So does Jenkins like flog over flair?
- 22 Jan 07, 11:46 AM
Cardiff - While Gareth Jenkins belongs to the belief that lyrical flow is the way forward in his interviews, the Wales coach has always displayed a more prosaic approach to his rugby selections.
His achievements in 24 years of coaching at Stradey Park were enormous, but there was criticism that a conservative approach in the big games could have cost Llanelli Heineken Cup glory.
Now he has finally been given his deserved chance in charge of Wales, is he showing the same tendency to rely on the tried, the trusted鈥 the mundane?
The issue raised its head in the big autumn Test against New Zealand. Would it be Hook or Henson at 12, and how would the second five-eighth probe the New Zealand defence?
Well, Jenkins silenced such debate by plumping for the physical centre combination of Sonny Parker and Tom Shanklin 鈥 and was left to see them repeatedly hammered back behind the gain line by the rampant All Blacks.
So now we have , and attention has focused on the back five of the pack.
There is no doubt that Colin Charvis and Scott Morgan are in on merit, although the best bet to fill Wales鈥 problem number six position could be Ryan Jones, with Alix Popham at number eight.
But the man left dribbling outside the window as the Six Nations party kicks off is , Wales鈥 2005 Lion and Grand Slam skipper now unable to even find a place in a 33-man squad.
Morgan - getting a first international call at the age of 28 - is, like Owen, able to cover back row and lock and offer a top-class line-out presence.
He is a proven club player, although his attraction to the sin bin needs to be curbed if he is to have an international future.
But in 2005 Owen provided the touch of ball-playing genius from the forwards that dove-tailed with the flair of Shane Williams et al to light up a magical Six Nations for Welsh fans.
Owen鈥檚 slide since then has been dramatic, and he has struggled to get into the Newport Gwent Dragons side ahead of the likes of Nic Fitisemanu and Andrew Hall.
But in the Dragons鈥 win in Bayonne it was his delightful floated pass that sent Kevin Morgan in at the corner to spark a memorable comeback.
Maybe that was not enough to justify a Wales squad call. But the nagging concern is that Jenkins was all too eager to jettison the artisan for the grafter.
Wales 27-18 England
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Sean,
Your partially right, but most of the 6N squad were picked purely on form, which makes a refreshing change for Wales. Charvis won't go to the World Cup but deserves his recall as has lifted the dragons pack to another level and Morgan has been playing awesome rugby for the blues.
Jenkins also realises that Wales got hammered in last years 6 nations because we did not compete upfront and tried to play 'expansively'. Ireland build platforms for BOD and D'arcy; Jenkins realises that we have to do something similar for Hook et al. Anyway, is it no surprise that the best pack in the world also has the best backs and has beaten everyone in sight over the past two years?
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I have never been a huge fan of Michael Owen and thought it was a huge relief when Ryan Jones came on the scene.
Unfortunately Owen doesn't make the hard yards as an impact player. Being able to spin passes half-way across the pitch doesn't make you a World class number 8 if you can't get over the gain line.
I think the squad is well-balanced and although the 1st XV may not be as good as Ireland or the French the Welsh have got by far the most depth to the squad of any of the Northern Hemisphere sides.
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Have to agree. It has boring written all over it! Gavin Thomas at the expsne of Tandy! Henson as a second full back. I suspect it will be a long 6 nations.
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Michael Owen is a shadow of his 2005 best! He has struggled this season with a dragons weak front 5. Owens versatillity failed to get him a place on th team bus because there are two boys in their, Morgan and R.Jones who can cover the position if need be.
The big question over slection is in the back division. It looks as if Henson will be playing an impact role from the bench. Jenkins wants to play Hook and i cant see him dropping Jones RIGHTLY! i THINK THE BACK DIVISON WILL BE peel-jones-hook-shanklin-williams-morgan-alfie
morgan scrapes in on form only! When Jones comes back Alfie will fit into fullback!
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Considering Wales does not have the strongest front 5, having Owen in the squad would be a luxury. He has great skills but players like Ryan Jones offer a lot more go-forward.
Not sure Henson should play full back though - he should fight for his place at inside centre.
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Gareth Jenkins' coaching has never been to the sort of style that suit's a forward like M.O. Jenkins' preference for a game based on loose kicking and forward attrition as opposed to the solid defence, quick turnover, attacking flair 'style' of rugby that was instilled in the International squad by the likes of Henry, Hansen and Johnson.
The exclusion of Owen, especially considering that he can play second row aswell as 8, seems a little harsh. Tandy missing out likewise, really dont see what Jenkins see's in Gavin Thomas other than the fact that he plays for Llanelli... Nice to see Mefin back, even if it is because of a serious shortage of fit hookers in the Region and Super-Clubs at the moment.
As for the backs, Henson's positioning is the most contentious issue, interchanging between Henson and Hook at 12 would be ideal with Gareth Thomas available to cover the Fullback position. Hal luscombe provides another decent option in the centre and I just hope that Shanks will be able to get fully fit for the Six Nations.
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I agree with much of what you say Sean about pragmatism in the selection. But international rugby is not touch rugby and for the dancers to perform there has to be a lot of grunt first. The squad to me simply emphasises what seem to be perennial problems for Wales in 3 positions: hooker, second row, and blindside flanker.
For once we actually have some decent depth at prop. Maybe not destructive in the mould of Carl Hayman, but the Jones boys are very underrated. And Gethin on his day is a superb footballer. But yet again we are short at hooker. Wonderful player though he is, Mefin simply lacks the stature to be a top class test hooker. However he is the only Welsh hooker I would have any hope of being able to find his man in an important line out.
Charvis as pointed out is another pragmatic choice. We need someone in the backrow willing and able to go in face first but also having the size to do damage with and without the ball. He is past his best, but with no Andy Powell or Jon Thomas I dont see many others to do the job.
The biggest weakness in the squad however is at 2nd row, where we seem to have been lightweight for a decade or more. Maybe the Premiership has its weaknesses but what it does generate is a large number of big, hardnosed second rowers. With the absence of Ian Evans there is no one with that on-the-edge mongrel quality every test side needs.
My big hope though for the 6 nations is that Flash for once stops admiring his orange self and plays some decent rugby. For all his self regard (and undoubted talent) he hasnt had a standout 80 minutes in nearly 2yrs. I know of very few non-Welshmen who actually rate him, and it is hard not to see their point or view. He has had fewer than half a dozen good games at International level. Hopefully his eclipse by James Hook will force him to start to play rugby again.
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I feel very confused after this latest selection. I feel we have taken a step forward in leaving players like Michael Owen out and seem to have gone for 2 big ball carrying players at 6 & 8 which is a must with our lightweight front 5. I agree with Sean that Alix Popham and Ryan Jones are the way forward with Delve as an impact player off the bench. But unfortunately I'm a little dissapointed with the backs selection with Gavin Henson as a back up full back. He is an inside center if I've ever seen one and shouldn't be playing anywhere else. True, if there was an injury crisis then he can do a job there but not as a recognised full back. Also, the selection of Luscombe who by all means hasn't been playing well for Harlequins instead of try machine Tom James surprises me a little. James couldve been the surprise package Wales were looking for and with the absence of speedster Mark Jones I believe he was the ideal replacement. Also, getting him in the squad early can't do him any harm because he is obvioulsy a player for the future but for the here and now aswell. Anyway, all the best to the boys and I hope they can do us proud.
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i think with Henson being named as a full back it means that wales will use him for their kicking game because it was awful last time with kevin Morgan, when they played New Zealand
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Rhodri has got the backs spot on and I too think Popham and Ryan Jones will start alongside Martyn Williams.
I dont particularly think that exchanging Owen for Jones/Popham is a reason to lose flair. You have to be competitive up front to create a bit of space for the backs to use and this needs to be worked on as the WC approaches. 2005 was truely impressive in the scoring/possession stats ... but that was the exception, not the rule. If the front 5 go well, Martyn William, Rhys T and Popham have the ball skills to get the flair going !
Henson should not be in the squad ...his current form is very poor. I'd like to see Hook and Shanklin in midfield with Morgan at full back (I don't think Alfie is test match fit) so a chance for a Blues flyer until Mark Jones is back.
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Thanks for the comments. I wasn't trying to suggest that Owen should be in the team - I'm not even sure he should be in the squad. I was just trying to use him as an example, though - as you can see from my profile on the site, I'm still finding it hard to accept that Mike Ruddock has left (I guess I should try to move on...!) and I'm worried about the approach Wales are going to take into the Six Nations and the World Cup.
Some good comments about selection - as always when the subject of picking a Wales team is announced! Just to respond to a few points:
Charvis - I've always been a big fan of his play and don't see why he can't make the World Cup. Despite concerns about his pace, I still see him as an open-side, though. It's a horses for courses selection - Martyn Williams better for an expansive game in good weather, Charvis for a tight dog-fight. As you can tell, I like living in the past - and I still remember Charv's awesome performance against Richie McCaw in November 2004.
Tom James - enormous potential, but he's still learning the game and definitely not ready for international rugby yet. Great to see him picking up experience with the Blues and Wales 7s.
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I would be in total disbelief if Micheal owen was picked for an outing in this years six nations as the only thing he has proved recently is he cannot get over the gain line.
Why Hal Luscombe??? please tell me this is an admin error as everyone I know thinks he's useless. He proved he was a lousy winger and then we put him in the centre to show he is rubbish there aswell. We have an abudance of good young welsh centres and wings so why do we always insist on taking an international rugby joke.
As for using Henson as a second full back why not its not like he hasnt got the boot to get him out of trouble? Henson hasnt showed that he is any better than any other welsh player at the moment and should be treated as such. Maybe his bum spending a bit more time on the bench will stop his run at 3/4 pace mentality and get him to looking for a bit more contact.
As for alfie running on and being the worlds greatest with cheers which would not be out of place in a rocky film i cannot see it! He has been away for a while with injury and in all honesty I think he would be of more use on the wing (or centre??). Kevin Morgan was hard done by in my opinion in the autumn and should see more game time.
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I agree, I still think that Martyn Williams is a great 7, however in a "harder" more physical game i think Jenkins has done the right thing to select Colin who can cone off the bench and do a very good job! And as far as the back row goes I really don鈥檛 see a problem at 6. The great thing about the welsh back row is that we have 4 or 5 world class players. Sure Michael Owen is not the player he was but, in Jones, Williams, Charvis and Popham we have a back row which can not only carry the ball forward and make hard yards but also support the boys out wide.
As far as the Henson selection is concerned I think that Jenkins has selected him as a 鈥渂ig game player鈥, does anybody remember England 2005?
In that 2004/5 season Henson rose to the occasion and played probably the best rugby he ever has done, and I think Jenkins still has the trust in him to do a good job for Wales, and lets face it who else in the northern hemisphere can pop the ball over from 55+ meters 9 times out of 10. As a full back Henson gives you an insurance policy as you know he will get the ball back into the oppositions 22 and as much as people say he is Alfie is not as good at 15 as he is at 13.
I just can鈥檛 wait for Shane Williams to get dancing again, and for Mr. Popham to smash a few people into the world cup!
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Owen isn't playing anywhere near well enough to deserve a place, irrespective of what the game plan might be. The worrying thing is there is obviously no plan B. Jones, Delve, Popham, Lloyd and Charvis to an extent are all like for like. At least an Owen-like player would offer a bit of variety. Still, I can't see the front five securing much ball so it won't make a lot of difference.
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I wouldn't agree that the selection immediately strikes one as boring. With Thomas at 15, by far his most effective position, and Hook and Shanklin in the centres, there is undoubtedley potential for a good deal of quick, exciting Rugby, with plenty of flare and rapid movement of the ball. But regardless of selection risks must be taken for a successful campaign. There is a danger with Henson, Hook and Jones, all competent kickers, of being dragged into the monotonous booting of the ball at every conceivable opportunity as vindicated by an England team which looks doomed to failure. If Jenkins errs in his tactical decisions, then concerns over selection will be rendered moot.
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I am, probably like most fans, fairly unsurprised and quite happy with the selected squad. It does seem clear that Gareth Jenkins is keen to galvanise the forward platform first and foremost, which I agree with. Unless we can secure and hold onto possession we will find it difficult to compete with Scotland and Italy, let alone England, France and Ireland.
As for Henson, I am bewildered as to what is going on. If he is not completely focused on the game - as it seems at times - he should not really be in the squad. However, I am slightly concerned as to how he seems to be being handled at the Ospreys - maybe a chance in the 6 nations is the tonic he needs!
I am looking forward to the tournament though - if we can beat Ireland, who knows. I still think that England will be the team to beware of though.
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Whilst I feel Gareth Jenkins has selected a squad on form. I sadly do not think he will pick the fist XV on form and I think this could be a problem for Wales
I think this season the best half-backs have been Mike Phillips and James Hook - but almost certainly he'll go for Dwayne Peel and Stephen Jones.
Is there a certain Scarlets bias from Jenkins there? It seems a bit like Clive Woodward's bias with the British Lions where he'd only pick players he knew - who were mostly English.
I think Jenkins has also created a massive problem for himself by naming Stephen Jones as captain when he plays in a very competitive position. It almost makes it impossible for him to be dropped.
Perhaps the captainacy should have gone to the only Welsh player who is (and should be) guaranteed a place in the starting XV and that's Ryan Jones?
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I only think Henson has been picked as a full-back because Jenkins has named enough centres in his squad anyway, not because he wants to play him in that position. However I have always thought that Henson's best game for Wales was at full-back against France last year. He hasn't got the flair and pace of Morgan but he has got a very useful boot.
Also, Gavin Thomas has had another excellent season for the Scarlets and is good cover for Williams. Czekai is too naive to play for the Blues, let alone Wales, so playing Kevin on the wing and Henson full-back might work well (although Alfie is a much better last line of defence).
Plenty to think about!!
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In view of the negative response to Luscombe's place, I feel that there is another (ex) Wales player who deserves another chance, and no-one has mentioned him. That's Dafydd James at Wing or o/s Centre. He has been playing extremely well in recent months, and continues to break the gain line, make ground, and score some lovely tries, even against strong European opposition. I have been very impressed with his play, he is also big and strong, and overall he is much better tham some in the squad.
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I disagree with #13 - Mike Phillips has been ordinary in several games this season for the Blues. Peel hasn't been great either but I feel he edges it over MP especially when you consider him and SJ play week-in-week-out. MP and JH do not have the same partnership.
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Well said Allan Evans. Dafydd James is in tremendous form, is experienced, and has the combination of pace and physical presence that maybe Shane Williams and Mark Jones lack. Can any of this be said of Hal Luscombe?
I'm delighted to see Charvis and Scott Morgan selected; they have both forced their way in.
As for the Great Backs Debate, my humble opinion is that it should be Peel and Jones at half back, with Hook at 12 and Kevin Morgan at 15, at least for the first match. Henson has not done enough this season to merit a start.
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in light of the wing injuries Dafydd James is definitely a player who should have come in, i think that being a scarlet worked against him in this instance
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As a Dragons supporter I understand exactly the main point that is being made in this article. I accept that Mike Owen has had an uncomfortable time this year, but believe that it is due to the fact that he has been asked to play as battering ram to make ground. Mike is a super footballer as he proved when skippering the Welsh to the Grand Slam. He is still capable of producing excellent handling skills.
How quickly that is forgotten. The Ruddock style, the Welsh flair seems to be a distant memory. The tedious kicking game that signalled surrender to the all blacks in the autumn series looks set to continue.
Come back quickly Shane, your country needs you.
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Playing mr cosmetics at full back will give Wales great field position with massive raking kicks out of hand but you have to expect a far more formulaic approach with very little counter attacking from deep or no whippet hitting the attacking line late. Playing this brand of rugby you have to rely heavily on your line out jumpers and Wales for as long as I can remember have struggled in this area.
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The problem Michael Owen has at present is his 'go forward' game is non existant. We do not have the most dominant front five in world rugby so we cant carry both Owen & Williams in the back row. Owen needs to improve his power if he is going to make the world cup squad.
Henson seems to lack confidence at present. He is affraid of making mistakes and is not commiting defenders and is passing the ball far too early - he needs to be far more direct if he wants to play centre for wales and im concerned he doesnt have enough gas for the full-back position.
One observation regarding picking players on merit - where is dafydd james. His exclusion from this squad is absurd he is on fire and must be included, especially now twinkle toes is injured.
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Kevin Morgan..no..and no again..I've seen him hack, spill, slip and hand the ball to opposition too many times...please no. NO.
Thomas at 15 as Henson can't be trusted. Henson at 12 and swap Jones/Hook half time for Ireland and see what happens.
Never liked Dafydd James in his Henry days..but..the man is on fire..he's a very obvious answer to our wing dilemma.
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Thank God for an article that remembers that Ryan Jones was outstanding at blind-side flanker for the Lions. We don't have another obvious candidate for the position but we do have Popham or Delve for number eight.
At full-back there is a problem now Lee Byrne is injured. I don't think either Gareth Thomas nor Kevin Morgan are up to it. That leaves Henson ?!!
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I couldn't disagree more with R Williams' comments about the Dragons having a weak front 5. Bearing in mind they've been missing R Thomas and S Jones from the front row, I can't remember a game this season when they've been out muscled in the scrum, or the contact area. This good form has created momentum for the team which in turn is helping someone like M owen play their natural game.
With the Henson 12 or 15 debate raging on, does anyone remember the first season of regional rugby? He was an absolute revelation at 15. To play at 12 he needs a fully fit and raring T Shanklin!
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Alot has been said about our lightweight front 5 but we made a similar amount of line breaks as the all blacks in all games last year - the difference being they converted this into more tries!So are we looking at the wrong area? - its mainly the backs job to convert these chances!!
As for Daf James - he is on form but my problem is he never really seems to back himself and will also cut inside. I hope Alfie gets plenty of game time as he is still a talisman in the red shirt and should be played at centre or fullback, definately not on the wing!!
Im glad Charvis is back in the squad - and we have to remember M Williams wouldnt even had played in the 2005 6N if charvis had been fit!!
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Michael Owen is a definate no, no in my books, I dont believe he posseses the strength and the 'dogg' to play agianst the 'hearty' Irish and the powerful English. Its excellent to see 'big charvo' in the set up, he never shies away from a big game and i think he would compliment Williams at 7 and Jones at 6, providing that balance of finess, with sheer, rugged determination.
The topic of Hook intrigues me a great deal; he is obviously the answer for wales' cry for a creative 10! Credit to stephen Jones, he has done the job for Wales through the hard times and the good, but he is just a 'link man': captain? well that is backward step and may be the result of a scarlets reunion.
Last but not least! Tom James! hale the messiah! having played with Tom James in youth rugby last season, nothing pleases me more than to see him forcing his way into the critics' mouths, good luck to him, although i do agree with sean, he is raw and needs a little tweeking before he's ready for the international scene!
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Henson would be a good full back, if his defensive tackling was better. Actually, his whole defensive game is pretty lazy. I agree, he needs to start fighting for a place.
As a 10 or 12 he loves to kick too much, so it ruins any decent attacking play. Hook is a much better choice as he holds the ball up and runs it at the defence alot more. He's a thinker.
Jenkins is in danger of making the same mistake England made. Picking players on reputation. It is a pretty 'old' back section. Can we really say most of those backs will be definite world cup selections? Are we going to have to call Steve Hansen back to sort out the mess again? Hook was a risk and it paid off, we need to take more risks and use the 6N as a testing ground for the World cup, we've got the summer to sort out the final XV. Im sad to see Watkins and Byrne aren't included, and what about Rhodri McAtee? Isnt he worth the risk? Much more so than the forever understudies Sweeney and Cooper, what a waste of places.
I just hope it's not a 6N that I spend screaming at the tv/pitch.
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Six Nations will be exciting as always. Only problem is Welsh Regions playing poor Rugby and players still not being played in their proper postions in every game. How can they perform well on international stage if not playing regular rugby in their position. More force from above to make regions conform. Better development of players needed at regional level. Many players not improving year on year. Good luck to Wales for this six nations but things still not right at regional level. Needs big overhaul and quickly. Spectators will not support regions if the product is not quality and it is not.
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i disagree with the notion of dafydd james being included in the welsh team on current "form". although he has indeed played some good rugby for the scarlets he still tends to be a bit greedy and holds on to the ball far too much which has cost the scarlets tries in many games. i am also a bit disappointed with hook being picked at 12,because with the ospreys this season in lyn jones's experimenting with hook and henson both players have played their best rugby with hook at 10 and henson at 12. Stephen jones may be consistant but as far as flair goes he is found wanting
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Weird as it may sound, Stephen Jones can play at 12 as well.
Possible? I doubt it.
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