³ÉÈËÂÛ̳

"Henry VIII's wives and how many heads he chopped off have no relevance in my life now because I don't know how to fill in a housing form and I don't know what I pay taxes for," she said.

Yes, let us venerate the 'yoof' because staggering ignorance like this is something to be applauded in our 'style-not-substance' culture. What on earth would imbeciles like this make of learning latin and trigonometry and geology ??

the loonatics are running the asylum and it shows.
learning has been dumbed down for results and the lack of common sense is running through this countries establishments like water through drains.
we are to blame becouse we the common folk have allowed it to happen simple and due to that its up to the people of this once great country to pull our socks up and start electing people who will do the job for the people rather than for their popularity. the system is in need of repair and we the people have to start the ball rolling.
more draconian measures are required urgently to stemm the fall into total breakdown, schools, social services, crime and illegal aliens.

#1. At 3:26pm on 04 Sep 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

"What on earth would imbeciles like this make of learning latin and trigonometry and geology ??"

[irony-mode:ON]
latin, 'ant 'hat wha' romans speeked? as for trigermonartory an't that Del boys m8 from Only fools and horses after he made all that money and moved to the country side with all those toffs?!
[irony-mode:OFF]

LBG, I couldn't agree with you more, and lets not forgot the media's role in this dumbing down (what with questions in television game shows or competitions that our generation could have answered whilst at junior school etc.), but 1Xtra really should be congratulated in attempting to take politics to, and make relevant to, the 'Yoof' of today.

The ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ and Brown are a part of the problem that is creating these 18-24 year old people. In the case of the former for exploiting a group of disadvantaged to create a "show"; for falling for the expedient of "short term training"; and as for Brown should he not be exceedingly embarrassed for helping create a Britain that has hardly moved forward from Victorian times? Does anyone in the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ understand why they are to blame?

Here are some clues. The ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ measures its "quality" through audience numbers and the impact of reality media; the PM measures his "success" through league tables, election quotas, and patronising the 18-24 age group whilst on "training" courses. Do either of these entities actually THINK?

The end result seems to be that the participants did not learn much but had (and took) the opportunity to show off to any of their friends watching. The sad thing is that neither Gordon Brown or Tina Daheley thought it worthwhile trying to explain to 21 year old Remy and plucky 19-year-old "Cheekz" why many ten year olds, who find education including history interesting, would be capable of filling in a housing form and conversing more sensibly with the Prime Minister. These disengaged twenty somethings need to be told what holds them back and why other young people are doing so much better. I suppose programme producers and presenters would find that too boring for their target audience.

One of the gentlemen in this film claims to come from St Pauls.

In which case the problem is absolutely crystal clear. The total inability of Labour to criticise the shockingly abysmal state school system in Bristol, with its appalling results for both black and white working class children is absolutely shameful. Bristol City Council tolerates abysmal standards because it is more interested in pursuing failed politically correct policies around lack of exclusion, rejection of selection and a myriad of other excuses around poverty and race to provide reasons for the shocking tolerance of poor standards of numeracy and literacy.

Many of us would easily imagine what we would have been told by our teachers if we had tried to use the excuse of class or our parents income as the reason we had failed to do our homework. A rocket up the backside as our teacher went ballistic would have been the result. But because there is zero appetite to tackle bad behaviour, enforce standards of discipline, dress, literacy and language coupled with a fatuous obsession with 'child centred learning' and letting them 'express their individuality' we are producing a generation who will join society and be shocked that it doesn't share the tolerance of their sloppy standards, poor grasp of language and anti-social behaviour which their 'teachers' had fostered over the years.

The kids are not the problem - it is us for having FAILED THEM ENTIRELY when it comes to teaching them right from wrong and what is important in life and prepared them only for a life on benefits or for a job rather than a career. Is it any wonder that many don't respect us and turn to a life of crime ??

When exactly did those commenting here actually last use their knowledge of trigonometry or engage in a conversation about the politics of Henry VIII's Court and government. That old classic "1066 and All That" got it right. Is it not more likely they spent more time on their tax returns, or doing battle with getting a GP or hospital appointment. Most of what is learnt at school is usually wrong,or at best approximate, and practically useless. Of course deeper knowledge and understanding of academic subjects are necessary for some, and even fun for others but for most they only served to help in pub quizzes.

cping500 - God what a hideously depressing life you must lead. Go out and buy a copy of Tom Hodgkinson's book 'How to be free' and buy a current copy of the Idler 'Smash the System'.

If you think that all your life is fit for is being a worker drone with no intelligence, curiosity and wish to learn more about how the world works beyond the confines of your office or home walls, that is fine by me.

Maybe you should read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World or Orwell's 1984, but since that would involve an effort in something which is not directly related to getting food, shelter or sex it is probably not going to be something which interests you.

And don't even think of ever tuning in to Radio 4, as that seems to be exclusively concerned with useless highbrow stuff of no use to modern living [moneybox and 'you and yours' excepted...]

Or maybe a quote from Oscar Wilde might say it better. 'We are all in the gutter. But some of us are looking at the stars'.

As was said on Front Row tonight, this could be the first generation to know less than their parents. The fact is, you probably don't even see that as a problem.

Also contrast the performance of these 'yoofs' with that young man in America interviewing Barack Obama - no pandering to 'rap culture' rubbish for them.

I always wonder who and what guides the search and selection of these 'representatives' for our broadcast delectation and edification.

For this latest dog and pony show it's pretty clear the dead hands of various limited agendas were again at work. Maybe the way the country is represented is now pretty much on the basis of ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ producer rating decisions and researcher iPhone quick dials.

That question was rather fun, mind, if daft. As was Mr. Brown's handling of it.

Shame no one asked if he might consider a job cut.

This is great - I'm really pleased I am being forced, under threat of imprisonment, to pay for this.

I can only hope that someone called 'Cheekz' will be taught how to fill in her housing application so that I can also pay for a free house for her.

#10. At 09:36am on 06 Sep 2009, jon112uk wrote:

"This is great - I'm really pleased I am being forced, under threat of imprisonment, to pay for this."

Thanks for demonstrating just how bad the current education system is... You are not being forced to pay anything (bar, possibly, income tax), this interview/discussion was being conducted by a ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Radio station and this blog is on the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ website - neither of which require a payment of a licence fee or subscription to access them, never mind being at risk of imprisonment for doing so - and there is no law in the UK that forces someone to own/use a television receiver.

"I can only hope that someone called 'Cheekz' will be taught how to fill in her housing application so that I can also pay for a free house for her."

Who said anything about a free house, and as she appeared to mention paying taxes but not knowing why she has to do so it suggests that she would not be claiming for free housing! Also, and in case you really meant the young lady from Bristol (Chris) who appears to be having to live in a car, why shouldn't she have access to social housing, why should anyone who is - obviously - willing to help themselves not have access to such basic benefits, she was far from being a drop-out or 'Tramp'.

One thing is for sure, judging from some of the comments here, schools really do need to improve the teaching of reading and attention skills, it's not enough just to teach kids how to read the words, they need to be taught to understand what they are reading - this is where studying subject like the politics of Henry VIII's Court (as asked by "cping500") or the stage plays of Shakespeare, for example, comes in as it makes kids actually think about the use of language due to the use of words that are no longer in every day use, this is why it's so often studied within the English rather than History curriculum. Many still lament the passing of Latin as a subject in main stream schooling, for similar reasons, because Latin is the bases of so much of our language a working knowledge of Latin can help in the understanding the English language beyond that used in "The Sun"!

11. At 12:52pm on 06 Sep 2009, Boilerplated

Wow, that's so dumb. Obviously both the radio station and the website are paid for from the license fee which I have to pay under threat of imprisonment. I've typed that slowly so you can take it in.

I don't want to pay (in whole or in part) for the housing of either soemone called 'cheekz' or someone who choses to live in a car. They should go to work, earn money, pay for their own home. I have never met either of these fine people - why should I want to pay for their home? If you want to pay for their home, nip down there and give them your money.

Well, Boilerplated, perhaps you don't own a tv receiver, but 95%+ of the population do, and they are paying for this rubbish. For yourfurther information, everyone who spends money pays taxes through VAT.Please apply your superior reading and attention skills to the following extract from the article:

"This is all part of the U Takeover joint project from 1Xtra and ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Blast. It's a three-month training scheme for 22 young people from Manchester, Bristol and London. The 18-24 year-olds are all out of work and not in full-time education. Their training culminates in producing a day of radio on 1Xtra on Saturday 26 September."

So I think jon112uk is spot on in assuming that the aptly named Cheekz expects a free house, at Jon112uk's expense.

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADDRESS 'lordBeddGelert' FOR ANYONE AS IGNORANT AS YOU I ONLY HAVE ONE THING TO SAY, DO YOU NOT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO BUT CRITICISE THE QUESTIONS THAT A GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE FELT WERE RELEVANT ENOUGH TO STAND INFRONT OF A HEAD POLITICAL FIGURE WHILST CAMERAS AND MICROPHONES ARE RECORDING FOR NATIONAL BROADCAST THEN YOU REALLY DO NEED TO WRITE YOURSELF A NICE LONG LETTER TO SOMEONE WHO WOULD GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING SO NERVE WRECKING, AND TO 'jon112uk' I WONDER IF YOU HAVE EVER NEEDED SUPPORT, IF NOT THEN IT IS APPARENT THAT YOU ARE FROM THE UPPER CLASS SOCIETY AND MUST HAVE BEEN BORN WITH A NICE TASTING PLATINUM SPOON IN YOUR FAT MOUTH. WE DONT EXPECT HAND-OUTS AND DONT ASK FOR HAND-OUTS BUT EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS THEIR OWN SITUATION TO DEAL WITH AND NOT EVERYONE CAN AUTOMATICALLY WALK INTO HOUSING... FLISS DOESNT CHOOSE TO LIVE IN A CAR, SHE IS FORCED TO BECAUSE OF HER SITUATION AND LACK OF HELP OFF THE SOURCES WHICH SHOULD BE HELPING HER. CHEEKZ DOESNT WANT YOU TO PAY HER RENT, SHE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW TO BASICS FOR FINDING HOUSING. EVERY MEMBER OF THE UTAKEOVER TEAM WERE OUT STANDING ON THE DAY WE MET GORDON BROWN AND I AM PERSONALLY VERY PROUD TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED. TO ANYONE THAT I HAVE MISSED THAT HAS SO STRONGLY AGAINST A GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK SUCH AN IMPORTANT POLITICAL FIGURE A QUESTION THAT HAD RELEVENCE TO THEIR LIVES THEN I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING ANY QUESTIONS YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED SUCH A PERSON, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THAT WE WERE NOT AWARE OF WHO WE WERE MEETING UNTIL AN HOUR BEFORE HE TURNED UP DUE TO SECURITY REASONS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THATNKS TO ALL STAFF AT ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ AND ALL THE UTAKEOVER TEAM, FORGET THESE GUYS WITH NO LIFE.

#12. At 4:01pm on 06 Sep 2009, jon112uk wrote:

"Wow, that's so dumb."

Don't be so ruddy patronising, when you obviously don't understand the law yourself...

"Obviously both the radio station and the website are paid for from the license fee which I have to pay under threat of imprisonment. I've typed that slowly so you can take it in."

...perhaps not slowly enough for you to actually understand the meaning of what you typed and how it compares top the actual law - perhaps you would care to point to the law that states that you HAVE to own a television receiver (never mind use it)?

"They should go to work, earn money, pay for their own home."

Have you tried to get a mortgage recently, remember the age of these people, did you buy your own house at age - lets say - 20?

Best not tilt your head Jon when you get caught in the rain without an umbrella, otherwise you might just drown, is that canyon you have in your shoulder...

Boilerplated - You are probably right about the TV receiver thingy - but aren't the scamps at the Beeb trying to alter the law so that people looking at 'simulcasts' on iPlayer need a TV licence ? Pretty soon owning a laptop without a licence will be a criminal offence. Heaven only knows how 'wi-fi' cafes [or even street based internet hot-spots ?] will cope.

#13

"Well, Boilerplated, perhaps you don't own a tv receiver, but 95%+ of the population do,..."

You missed out three very important words in that comment - "...of the population choose to do so,".

"...and they are paying for this rubbish."

What makes you think that you can speak for that 95+% and what they think of the programme/radio station in question - no doubt your parents generation disliked what your opinions, what you listened to or watched when you were these people ages too?...

In reply to comments made @ #16

"Pretty soon owning a laptop without a licence will be a criminal offence."

Only if you break the law, that is (in this case) watch content that requires a valid licence. It's not an offence to own the receiving equipment, just to use it without such a licence.

"Heaven only knows how 'wi-fi' cafes [or even street based internet hot-spots ?] will cope."

Presumably it would be the end-user and not the owner (otherwise IT managers of companies could find themselves in the criminal dock and not the employee for example) who will be committing the offence.

Boilerplated, you really do need to put more work in on your reading and attention skills, superior though they may be. I was not trying to speak for 95% of the population- I personally think it is rubbish,what the rest of the population think is their business, but as a matter of fact, the license payers as a whole are paying for it. How you can construe what I said as trying to speak for the opinions of others just escapes me- back to pedantry class, I suggest.

15. At 5:50pm on 06 Sep 2009
"...perhaps you would care to point to the law that states that you HAVE to own a television receiver..."
===================

That's positively weak witted.

I could avoid ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ tax by not having a TV? Wow, never realised that.

It's about the equivalent of saying I could avoid income tax by refusing to work and living in the back of car. Who would be stupid enough to do that?

Your intellect is so massive you have missed my point. Whether or not the person in the back of the car can afford a new car, a new house or a holiday in Torremolinos is none of my business.

I once lent a young person some money to help buy a flat, but ...

1. I knew the person (relative)
2. I liked him
3. I chose to do it

None of those things apply to the bright spark in the back of the car or to someone who can spend 11 years in compulsory education but still can't fill in her benefits form.

In reply to comments made @ #19 and #20

Must be nice to never need to take the plumbs and silver spoons out of ones mouths, pity that neither stop the facts getting in the way of 'rants' though...

#21

Put your enormous intellect to work on this...

My niece worked hard for 11 years and got GCSEs, she worked another 2 years and got 'A' levels, she worked another 4 years to get a degree and a teaching qualification. The only job she could get is in London. Because she is foolish enough to work she has to pay for her own accommodation. She shares a rented house with 7 other hard working people.

I would like to keep my own money and choose to give it to my niece. She would use it to make a deposit on a house with her fiance and would probably pay me back some day.

I don't want Gordon Brown to take my money from me without my consent and give it to someone I have never met. Particularly someone who’s biggest issue is to be able to fill in her own benefits form.

#22. At 8:00pm on 06 Sep 2009, jon112uk wrote:

"Put your enormous intellect to work on this..."

Oh, touchie aren't we?

"I would like to keep my own money and choose to give it to my niece. She would use it to make a deposit on a house with her fiance and would probably pay me back some day."

Did your niece buy here own house between the age of 18 to 22 though, the age group we are talking about? Also, at what ever age she was able to find a property she had a 'nice' uncle (well I'm sure she thinks you are a very nice person even if those who read this blog might think otherwise) to help her out, as I said, it's nice when people are born with silver spoons, unfortunately most are not. Had your Niece not been able raise the money needed to either buy outright, obtain a mortgage or even rent a property at market values (assuming that she was able to actually find such a property, which is actually one of the issues here, the lack of such properties) would you be so damming of people who have to make use of the benefit systems, as I said, it's nice to have a silver spoon in ones mouth all your life.

"I don't want Gordon Brown to take my money from me without my consent and give it to someone I have never met. Particularly someone who’s biggest issue is to be able to fill in her own benefits form."

In other words, "I'm all right Jack, 'blast' everyone else"...

#23

Again you seem incapable of understanding basic ideas.

Taking the niece. She has no 'silver spoon.' (Except if she wants work, earn money and buy one)

She paid for university with a whopping student loan. (Unlike 'cheekz' who would get a variety of grants and bursaries).

She has no house. Despite all her hard work she can't afford one. She lives in a rented house shared by 8 people. She has to pay for this out of her wages (Unlike 'cheekz' who would get it free)


The other basic idea is that 'cheekz' lifestyle is none of my business. If she chooses to spend 11 years at school and not learn how to read and write, or if she chooses not to work - fine, that's her life. When I am made to pay for her, then it becomes an issue I can comment on. I don't want to pay.

I am quite happy to help other people. I just don't want to give my money to people I don't know, don't like and have been given no choice about. If you like the idea then nip down there and give them your money.

In reply to comments made @ #24

Has it escaped your great intellect that the people in the film are unemployed, has it escaped your great intellect that there is a shortage of jobs currently, are you seriously saying that you would prefer to see people homeless? Sorry but if your views are typical of people in the UK it is a great damnation of the UK population - fortunately you are just another far right wing (deciple of Thatchers '80s "There is no such thing as society any more" speech no doubt) person on a 'rantothon' via the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ blogs, first you lay in to the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳, then the young, then anyone who dares to disagree with your 'views'.

#25

I have no problem with different views nor with the honest debate thereof. Where I reserve the right to be critical is not on other peoples views or even their lifestyles.

If people want my money to fund those lifestyles then I have the right to have a position on it.

It is interesting to speculate whether a visit by Michelle "It's cool to be smart" Obama would also have resulted in the 'yoof' turning up in their scruffs and using facile 'street names' like 'cheetz' or whatever.

I somehow doubt she would have stood for it - which does rather make me wonder why you are indulging these slackers by putting up with it.

#26. At 11:21am on 07 Sep 2009, jon112uk wrote:

"#25

I have no problem with different views nor with the honest debate thereof. Where I reserve the right to be critical is not on other peoples views or even their lifestyles."

But you know nothing more than anyone else about these people (in other words what was in the film) yet you are all but branding them benefit cheats and scroungers simply because they mention filling out housing benefit forms or the fact that there is a lack of available housing - that's a bit like me accusing you of tax evasion just because you say that you don't like paying tax...

"If people want my money to fund those lifestyles then I have the right to have a position on it."

What "Lifestyle" would that be, not having to live in a cardboard box in some doorway or the back of a car perhaps?!... By all means have an opinion but you can only expect to have your opinion listened to seriously if it comes from a position of fact and not blatant bigotry.

#27. At 11:41am on 07 Sep 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

"I somehow doubt she would have stood for it - which does rather make me wonder why you are indulging these slackers by putting up with it."

Is it just unemployed 'Yoofs' who you think are "slackers" or the entire 3 million + unemployed, LBG?

This blog has, unfortunate, proved that Thatchers "Me, me, me" 1980s Britain is still alive and kicking, no doubt someone will mention getting on their bikes next...

A fair point boilerplated and I am NOT trying to stigmatise people who are not in work. I suppose I am being a bit harsh, but I'm afraid that my view is that these young people are indulged by the system while they are in school to 'express their individuality' by not having school uniform, not speaking grammatically correct English, not having a wider appreciation of the point of education in self-improvement, not adhering to a higher standard of civility and using ridiculous nicknames.

Then when they come to the world of work, it is rather like they have been taught the rules of association football, and finding out that the world of work is run along the rules of rugby football. There is nothing intrinsically wrong in either game, but the poor unfortunates are being sent out on the pitch ill-prepared for the 'game of life' and wondering why the referee keeps blowing the whistle, and not overlooking their odd behaviour and mistakes and fouls.

We think we are doing these young people a favour by 'dumbing-down' on to their level and eschewing 'elitism' when in fact for life, as with sport, only the elite performers are going to succeed - and it must be mighty depressing to turn eighteen and find out you have been prepared for a totally different game, have wasted 14 years at school, and are now unable to turn back the clock.

Of course I am not suggesting this is the case for all young people - but the fact that the gap between rich and poor hasn't closed after over a decade of Labour in power is rather depressing. This is not a political point - the Tories with their opposition to any form of academic selection would probably make all the same mistakes, be just as slack when it came to discipline in the classroom, and probably try to do it with even less money.

Of course I'm not suggesting we return to a 'me me me' culture, but I do not think we can give young people the impression that one can live life without taking an element of personal responsibility and one cannot expect the state and society to make up any deficiencies in earning power and common courtesy and civility for ever and a day.

#30. At 6:40pm on 07 Sep 2009, 30. At 6:40pm on 07 Sep 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote: wrote:

"not adhering to a higher standard of civility and using ridiculous nicknames."

You didn't pause before pressing the "Post Comment" button did you "lordBeddGelert" - or are you actually Lord Bedd Gelert?...

Must admit to agreeing with most of what you say @ #30 though, can't blame the 'kids' when the adults have been the ones that messed up.

Doh !!

From today's Guardian..



[Barack Obama] "at the end of the day, the circumstances of your life – what you look like, where you come from, how much money you have, what you've got going on at home – that's no excuse for neglecting your homework or having a bad attitude."

Yea, verily...

Rod: I am glad, that 1XTRA is getting the audience passionate about politics....

=Dennis Junior=

At least young people are engaging in the issues, ill informed, crass and publicity seaking as this intiative may appear on the face of it, stepping into the arena of political debate on prevalent issues should only be encouraged. As the first step into the wider arena, I think this was a worthwhile endeavour.