成人论坛

Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig since day one. When will decent Americans rise up and oust them for their lies? The whole world knows Iraq is an illegitimate war waged on intelligence doctored to suit the Bush Oil Cartel. In every secretive act the Bush administration schemes to supplant democracy in America with a fascist dictatorship bought and paid for by their owners: corporate interests.

I believe that no matter how they try to paint their pig, they will eventually fall. A drastic overhaul of the political system must occur after this constitutional crisis.

But wake up: Failure to vote is a vote for Republicans. A vote for Republicans is a vote for fascism. The main issue is nothing less than the survival of democracy in America.

Yet just voting is not enough: there must also be a plan for massive popular resistance, a nationwide campaign of civil disobedience to thwart the inevitable rigging of voting machines by Republican operatives.

Bravo Ann R. but you're call to resistance falls on deaf ears. As Americans we are completely pre-occupied with our own daily grind and way to lazy to confront our fascist leaders.

Democrats may well be a lesser of two evils but they play the same game and will likely have their hand in the till soon enough.

The Republicans have allies - Australia, Britain, Canada, to name a few that have bent over to satsfy their carnal desire for power and domination.

Joe and Jane Average-American don't really care enough about Iraq to do much about it. They want to know why they have to pay so much in taxes (local, state, federal), why they can't find decent jobs at decent wages, why the roads and bridges are collapsing, and why students are failing in their public schools (in the US, public schools are free instutions open to all). While they are truly concerned about the safely of military service personnel and about military benefits being cut, they don't have enough interest in the subject, unless it's their son or daughter in the military. When news of Iraq comes on radio or tv, they change the channel. They skip the front page of the newspaper and go right for the comics. While I agree with all that was said by the previous commentator, I feel that most Americans are just trying to get by. They don't have time to fight fascism.

It's always amusing when non-Americans tell Americans how to vote. (I am referring to an earlier comment-er, not to Mr. Beale.) Usually these are the same people who would go ballistic if an American weighed in on (for instance) the next British election. As a US citizen living in Canada, I've already cast my vote by mail for the Republicans, although I realize that the Democrats will make substantial gains in the House and Senate on November 7th.

Many leading Democrats such as Senator Clinton continue to support the war, so it's simplistic to imply that voting for Democratic candidates for the House and Senate will end the war. Both support for the war and oppositin to it cut across party lines.

Granted, the war has gone badly, and the post-war effort was ineptly planned, for which Secretary Rumsfeld and President Bush bear responsibility for failing to foresee that Sunni Iraqis would engage in guerilla-type violence against their own elected leaders. But to argue that Bush launched this war for pecuniary gain is not remotely correct and not supported by the facts. When Iraqi oil is sold, it is sold at market rates and the money goes to the Iraqi treasury. The US has authorized huge sums of US taxpayers' money for reconstruction, which can't proceed under the current violent conditions.

Bush's ambitious plan was to create a multi-party democracy in Iraq and then to watch Arab democracy spread from Iraq to other countries, thus transforming the Arab nations and reducing the likelihood of another 9-11. Bush's vision looks ridiculous now as Iraq sinks into chaos, and it's fair to say that Bush's plan was always unrealistically optimistic. But to argue that this war was conducted so that oil executives could get a few more dollars is absurd.

Ann R.,
I am not a fascist. I am sick and tired of being told by the likes of you that I do not care about my country or the Constitution because I vote for an occasional Republican. As for your conspiracy theories about voting machine rigging, they have all been debunked. No one in the moderate middle takes these claims seriously, not even the DLC. The Republicans have been beating the Democrats fairly regularly for the last decade or so. Sooner or later, the pendulum will swing again. Just because your side loses doesn't mean the republic is coming to an end. There is no constitutional crisis except in your head.

It's always amusing when Americans talk about democracy, and spreading it to foreign lands like it鈥檚 a product that can be sold like Coca Cola. Like installing it in Iraq will produce a country just like their own, and Iraqis will go to Baseball games at weekends, eat apple pie and celebrate the 4th of July. When in reality America will only be happy if the 鈥榝air and free鈥� elections would result in an American front man would be put in place (like in Afghanistan.)

When will these people wake up and realise that even if you do succeed with democracy, it鈥檚 the very nature of true democracy that could, and probably would lead to a leader being elected that supported everything America does not like, as in Palestine. Hamas was democratically elected by the people and whether they are a terrorist organisation or not the people voted and that is democracy.

This war was not about elections, democracy or freedom, it was about an agenda that this administration had from even before they came into office. Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney,鈥―onald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Richard L. Armitage, all members of the 鈥楾he Project for the New American Century鈥� a Neo Conservative group who, in their own words: 鈥淓stablished in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership.鈥� They urged then President Clinton in a letter dated January 26 1997 to: 鈥渢o turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power.鈥�

This administration has an agenda, led I think by Dick Cheney, as I don鈥檛 think Bush has a clue what is really going on in the world, I think he is a puppet that those mentioned above are able to manipulate by pulling on his strings to suite their own goals.

I think the American people have finally realised what most of the world already knew, that Bush is incapable of running the country, as I am sure the mid term elections will prove.

References:
Letter to Bill Clinton
About PNAC

As for your conspiracy theories about voting machine rigging, they have all been debunked. No one in the moderate middle takes these claims seriously, not even the DLC.

-This is why there can never be any progress on any issues. Who debunked the voting machine riging and how did they do it? If you even google "voting machine rigging" you get 306,000 hits. The article that bought me here talks about how less than 30% of Blacks feel their vote will be counted. What gives you the right to tell the lie that this issue is resolved?

Its a matter of trust and the Bush Administration does not dseserve our trust. Bush lies: Google April of 2003 Bush and you will see how many statements he's made that are now DEBUNKED. Bush's associates lie and he has shown time and time again that he is not going to follow the law when it contradicts what he wants to do. He has no respect for US Law (hence Free Speech Zones and NSA Wiretapping - a program which I am sure that when we finally learn the TRUE extent of will be yet another Bush scandal- and the end of habeus corpus) or International Law and through the aid of Rupert Murdoch's media is never held accountable in any capacity. So why wouldn't he steal another election? Who would do what? What possible consequences would he face? Even if he was caught red-handed, his supporters would block for him. FOX News would characterize it as a Democratic attack against him and stir up partisanship to make everyone lose focus, it would never be investigated and there would be NO consequences.

As far as Condi Rise, what happened is the proof of what I am saying. Faced with a scandal borne of her own lies (Remember: She angrily claimed she would not have forgotten to remmeber Tenet's briefing and the next day the State Dept. confirmed that the meeting did occur, she makes a surprise visit to the Middle East and the story dies. Period. Noone even remembers, noone is even discussing State of Denial or anything related to Bush's failures as the President who instigated this war anymore. Like magic.

The American people have been so conditioned to react to anything said about Bush as an attack against America. The amount of mental clarity and focus needed to see past that empty propoganda is not something they are yet ready for. I live in the US and our day to day lives are filled with too much personal anxiety to devote the amount of energy we need to do our civic duty. The people in the Northeast, those who would stand up and do something, are facing the highest rents and costs of living ever. When your rent is 3/4 of your monthly earnings, you dont have time or energy to worry about politics except superficially. When your mortgage is $5,000 a month, Bush comes later if ever.

The bottom line is that 'most' (not all) Americans are politically weak. Since the war in Iraq is not directly effecting them, then few consider it an issue big enough to change their vote, despite what the polls say.

I would like to see a new law created. 鈥淣o war to be progressed on credit鈥�.

Can you imagine, 6 months into Iraq and suddenly Taxes go up by 25% to pay for the continued occupation? Now, THAT would effect the everyday person. THAT would get them feeling the effects of the war. THAT would hit them hard when they can not purchase a new wide screen TV because our troops are thousands of miles away fighting a pointless war based on lies by the current administration.

Instead, what Bush has done is borrowed heavily, screwed the economy for future administrations and reduced taxes to ensure to make people think all is well in the land of Oz.

The fact that Bush was re-elected in 2004 based on what his administration has done, just proves without any shadow of doubt just how ignorant the American people are..

Condi Rice telling the Iraqis to "get a grip. Stop the killing" or else we'll do what exactly??

Was it not us that started the killing? How can we now get away with trying to blame the Iraqis themselves. We have destroyed their country.

Nasira, you wrote:
"Even if he was caught red-handed, his supporters would block for him. FOX News would characterize it as a Democratic attack against him and stir up partisanship to make everyone lose focus, it would never be investigated and there would be NO consequences."

Like Ann R., you are assuming that no one who could vote for a Republican cares about the legality of elections and the constitution. If it were conclusively proven that a president manipulated an election, I would not support him even if I voted for him. Incidentally, Google hits do not prove anything, only that there are a lot of embittered supporters of loser Democratic candidates who would rather spin conspiracy theories than do the hard work of convincing their fellow citizens of their basic ideas. I also live in the Northeast and despite the expense, I do find time for my "civic duty." If you do not like your mortgage, move to Iowa. It's a very nice place and the cost of living is low.

Nasira makes a good point:
"When your rent is 3/4 of your monthly earnings, you dont have time or energy to worry about politics except superficially. When your mortgage is $5,000 a month, Bush comes later if ever."

I would ask:
What should be done with your tax money instead of bombing Iraq and giving it away to Halliburton?

Could improve the problems of working Americans if we were not being bankrupted by the GOP's fancy little "War Without End"?

Could qualified candidates be proposed to head agencies of our government tasked with responding to the needs of working Americans, instead of political appointees who've sworn fealty to the king and their brother, the industry lobbyist?

Anyone worried about affording a college education? Want more benzene in our soft drinks and perfectly harmless teflon and the FDA's gift to every American and giveaway to the pharmaceutical lobby-Celebrex and Vioxx? Could we, not to seem more demanding than Sweden, Finland, or Canada, have some improvement in health care?

How about that bankruptcy law? Could legislation be written by elected officials that serves working Americans instead of catering to organizations whose underlying goal is to TAKE OUR MONEY AND RUN.

How about all those jobs being shipped overseas; trade imbalance while we mortgage the future of the US to China?

As long as we still (barely) live in a democracy, you have the right to OBJECT to this outrageous situation. If the GOP remains in power and continues on their quest for a stranglehold on all 3 branches of government, you can kiss that right goodbye. I don鈥檛 know about you, but that makes me feel quite energized. Keep trying. MLK did.
Ghandi did.

Back to the question Is America Safer? Most people now say heck no. What's safe about bankrupting our country? Have industry and corporate interests shown support for American workers or cut jobs, pay and benefits for Americans and shipped jobs elsewhere? When Congress sells out American workers in favor of industry & corporate lobbies, have they made our lives safer? When the FDA approves Celebrex and Vioxx as a favor to pharmaceutical interests, are we safer? When teens buy guns at gun shows are our children safer? When our water is toxic because Congress lets industry polluters off the hook, are we safer? Let's get back to thinking about what really protects and enriches our lives instead handing our money and our future over to industry lobbyists and the GOP for its War of the Worlds. We can take our country back from these droids from the Dark Side.

Given the slogan: > How will you vote and will your vote be counted?

For Bill P. who seeks a better plan.

No Wars. No Bombs. No landmines. Here's how it works for starters: Everyone minds their own business and allows their neighbor to mind his. We treat others everywhere as we would wish to be treated ourselves. We try to help each other out instead of hurting each other. We try to make the world a better place for everyone, not just a few. We try to care about others, not just ourselves and listen to their concerns. We think about the effects of our actions on the children of our children's children. Kindness, in essence. Truly radical, I know, but some think it might just work.

Bill P your comments confirm that the illusion that has been created by the US government.

The idea that America is in Iraq fighting Al qaeda I mean. The common 'sound bite' I hear from Bush and especially on Fox is that "If we retreat 'they' will follow us here" Meaning that Al Qaeda will start hitting targets in the US. When it actual fact only about 8% of the violence in Iraq is from foreign fighters who are members of Al Qaeda. Most of the violence in Iraq is from sectarian fighting and what is most likely the start of a civil war. So it鈥檚 incorrect to say that people fighting a civil war would move to America to continue the fight if the allied forces left. When you consider that, then that idea sounds like spin I think. If the people of the US believe that leaving Iraq would mean fighting at home then most people will say yes stay in Iraq, it makes sense.

Republicans are fighting for their political life right now, and they see that people in the US think they (Republicans) are strong on the so called 鈥榳ar of terror鈥� so therefore they have to convince people that Iraq is part of it.

The fact is that Bush opened a Pandora鈥檚 box in Iraq and now he has no idea how to close it, he has no plan; the only thing he can do is stick to his words. Dick Cheney recently said that if he had to do it all over again he wouldn鈥檛 change anything! This kind of statement is mind boggling to me, it鈥檚 trying to show that they know what they are doing and that they never back down, it鈥檚 like a boxer who tries to fight on even though his legs have turned to jelly; stubborn, but stupid.

America (and Britain) has never been so hated around the world as it is now and it didn鈥檛 have to be that way. After 9/11 America had the world鈥檚 sympathy and everybody understood and agreed with the actions taken in Afghanistan. If the US had stayed there and fought Al Qaeda that would have been the correct thing to do and probably would have helped to make the world safer. Instead the US entered into a war of choice to which almost every country around the world knew was just that. Imagine how it was perceived in Muslim countries? And these actions have led to a huge increase in Muslims who see these actions as an attack against their faith, which has led to more terrorism. So the idea that the Iraq conflict is somehow making people safer is ludicrous.

You can't mind your own business and at the same time try to help each other out. The terrorists/people/freedom fighters object to any interference within their countries.

My solution would be pull out of these countries 100%, no investments, no embassies, no aid, nothing. Stop all migration, immigration and visitation from anyone from these countries. If they attack us, them bomb them back into the stone age.

Having lived in some of these countries, I know the futility of providing these people with any help. They will hate you regardless of the aid you provide. They will hate you for your freedoms, they will hate you for anything they can think of.. The slightest insult will have they up in arms and rioting.

My concern continues to be the influence of Islam across the world. Muslims are migrating in millions across the world into 鈥榳estern鈥� countries and having a huge effect on laws and culture. There is very little migration the other way. You only have to look at the way our country 鈥榖ends over backwards鈥� to the Muslim groups in the UK. Trying migrating to a Muslim country and doing that, you will end up in a small 30x30 prison room with 40 others, a hole in the ground and a huge bowl of rice twice a day to fight over.

As regards to Iraq, I am not sure who the puppet government can do anything about the killings when 150,000 heavily arms troops can do nothing about it.

Right: Who could possibly suggest that oil was involved??? Right again: Only the most altruistic motives are a play here:

鈥淎fter we got our hands on the confidential document to 鈥淢ove Iraq鈥檚 Economy Forward鈥濃�攊.e. sell off its oil鈥攚e at 成人论坛 put General Jay Garner on the air. Garner, whom the president apnted (sic) as viceroy over the newly-conquered Iraq, confirmed the plan to sell off Iraq鈥檚 oil鈥攁nd his refusal to carry out the deed. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fired him and smeared him for his dissent.鈥�

鈥淜en Lay and his Enron team are the Number One political career donors
to George W. Bush.鈥�
鈥淢r. President, give it back - the millions stolen from Enron retirees then stuffed into the Republican campaign kitty.鈥�
鈥淕eorge, give it back. Dump Wood and end the 鈥渄e-criminalization鈥� of
electricity price-gouging that you and Cheney and Wood laughably call
鈥渄e-regulation.鈥� Give us back the government Lay bought with crime
肠补蝉丑.鈥�
鈥淟et us remember that the President鈥檚 sticky-fingered brothers
Neil and Marvin were on Enron鈥檚 payroll, hired to sell pipelines to the
Saudis. The Saudis didn鈥檛 bite, but maybe a captive Iraq would be more
辫濒颈补苍迟.鈥�

Let us consider some of the nonsense being mouthed by National Democratic Party leadership, farleft kook blogs and organizations like Move On.
Just about every topic and we hear complete nonsense.
1)The deficit is horrendous-Most recent economic data shows a dramatic increase in tax receipts. An unfortunate (for the neo-socialist left) vindication of the Bush Administration tax cuts.
2)War on Terror going wrong- If you live in the real world you will be forced to see that a breeding ground for terror in Afghanistan has disappeared, a dictatorship in Iraq has disappeared and guess what I have yet to hear of mass graves akin to Saddam's legacy.
3)US economy is teetering- Again actually looking at economic data will show that the average unemployment in the US is lower than anytime in the 60's, 70's 80's or 90's. The Stock market has broken all time records, home ownership is strong and job creation is in full swing.
4)Post 9-11 foreign policy has harmed the US- How does one explain the house arrest of A.Q.Khan in Pakistan, and active cooperation from most intelligence agencies in the fight against terror? How does one explain the voluntary disarmement of Libya's nuclear program? How about the strong relationship established by President Bush with India?
5)President Bush's actions make us weaker- Again standard boiler plate language from the hate America crowd. Not one attack on our soil since 9-11. An aggressive and active program of combatting savage jihadists worldwide. Let's not forget that the most fundamental human right is the right to be actually alive! A right denied thousands of Americans in Lower Manhattan, Virgina and Pennsylvania. Shame on all the self-important human rights groups who choose to disregard how we the American people suffered and still found the decency to make sure that we spend more on the average terrorist in Guantanamo than on our own GI's in war zones. Shame on all the leftists who chose to ignore America's role in maintaining world peace and stability. I am so proud of our nation that continues to allow lawful immigration even in times such as these. USA Forever!

Hi Nathan,

Also proud of the civilian casualties in Iraq? How about their right to be alive?

And don't give me the Saddam Hussein horrible dictator story, since the western administrations (both US and European) have supported him for years when he was actually commiting the attrocities.

WAR SUCKS AND SO DOES BUSH This sub-human should be IMPEACHED and his adminstration lock stock and barrel sent to Iraq to replace the troops who should be sent home ASAP. Do not give Me any crap about War and my opinion about War-been there done that and it is a crock.

Nice one CJ Rock. The rest of the world has known and followed each lie as it came, and each criminal act by the US administration as it was perpetrated for 6 long long years now. Please wake up all of you educated, intelligent, peaceful Americans and DO something about this. The shame Bush and his like are bringing on your country is becoming insurmountable. Either admit the overwhelming hypocrisy of your politics and fix it, or internalize and leave the rest of us alone.

Hi Joe,
Civilian casualties are unfortunately part of just about every war. So in hindsight, should Britain have given into the Nazi Blitz because they lost tens of thousands of civilians? How about the sweep from Normandy after D-day? Should the allies have never conducted the D-day landings since there would be a loss of civilian life? An overwhelming majority of killings in Iraq are at the hands of sectarian militias, criminals and al-quaeda inspired jihadists.
The most amazing thing I have seen was the sight of 20+ million Iraqis braving the worst violence to stand in lines and vote. Forget that?

i feel sorry for american public they have been told so many lies by the white house that they hardly can judge right from wrong now ..first it was weapons of mass destruction ,,then the war on terror ,, then how to get hold of middle east ..and now how to get out of the bush clean ..GOD bless america ... really