Damaged in the mail
It has been like walking on eggshells trying to establish how agreement was reached late last night to end the post workers' strike.
No one - either from CWU union or the Royal Mail - wants to go on the record.
Why?
Because the deal still has to be ratified by the 16 members of the CWU's postal executive.
And given that emotions among postal workers are running high in a dispute that's been dragging on since June, their assent cannot be taken for granted.
But if there was one thing that tipped the balance, it was that Brendan Barber, general secretary of the Trades Union Congress, somehow succeeded in translating what both sides were saying into language they could all understand.
So who has won and lost?
Well, as far as i can gather, the big pillars of what Royal Management wanted from its workforce remain in place.
The value of the pay rise this year remains at the 2 1/2 per cent offered.
The attractive final salary pension scheme will be closed to new members.
And - most important for Adam Crozier, Royal Mail's chief executive - there will be a reform of allegedly inflexible working practices. Which for Crozier means that the company can invest £1.2bn in new kit and "modernisation" over the coming five years, safe in the knowledge that productivity of this business will improve.
For Crozier, that was the life or death issue. With the onset of competition in the postal market, Royal Mail was haemorrhaging custom to lower-cost competitors. For Crozier, it was "become more productive or die".
But, just to be clear, this is not a slam-dunk victory for management.
My sense is that there have been important concessions.
Perhaps the most important one is that negotiation on the detail of new working arrangements will be devolved to local areas, not imposed in Stalinist style from the centre.
What this reflects is the hard reality that many postal workers have lost any trust in Crozier and in the Royal Mail's chairman, Allan Leighton.
So, of course, there must be a risk of localised disputes, as these new more flexible working practices are put in place.
But for management, what is important is that all posties are now expected to be productively employed during all of their agreed hours, before overtime kicks in.
And, I think, there has been some tweaking by management on the terms of the pension-fund changes, of benefit to those who want to retire at 60, among other things.
What does it all mean? Well, assuming it all goes through, Royal Mail can move on to the next phase in its development - which is to catch up with its rivals in becoming more efficient.
But make no mistake, there are lessons here for management as much as for the workforce and trade union.
Negotiation on pay and working conditions has been going on for at least eight months - and for most of that time, neither side seemed to have even the most basic understanding of the other side's concerns.
And there has been well over a week of strikes - which has cost the business a bomb and been a massive inconvenience and expense to its long-suffering customers.
That is hardly what you would expect of a thoroughly modern business.
Many would say it reflects as badly on the management as it does on the trade union.
I'm 
°ä´Ç³¾³¾±ð²Ô³Ù²õÌýÌý Post your comment
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT BOTH SIDES OF THE CURRENT ROYAL MAIL DISPUTE COULD HAVE WHAT THEY WANTED IF THEY WHERE ALLOWED TO ADD A FEW PENCE MORE ON BOTH 1ST AND 2ND CLASS POSTAGE,AND INCREASE PRICES AT THE LEVEL OF INFLATION ANNUALLYY ACROSS THE BOARD.
BUT FOR THIS THEY WOULD NEED THE
GOVERNMENTS APPROVAL AT SOME LEVEL
I GENUINELY FEEL SORRY FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT AS WE GET AN INCREDIBLY GOOD VALUE SERVICE
LITERALLY COME RAIN,OR COME SHINE.
IT IS UNFORTUNATELY BEING PART GOVERNMENT OWNED THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM,IN BEING THAT THE PRICE INCREASES ARE DETERMINED BY THEM,UNLIKE FOR EXAMPLE NEWSPAERS
,BOTH THE TELEGRAPH AND TIMES HAVE SNEAKED AN ODD 5P ON THEIR DAILY EDITIONS,RECENTLY WITH VERY LITTLE
IN THE WAY OF UPROAR,AND I'M SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO NEEDED TO GET IMPORTANT LETTERS/GIFTS/DOCUMENTS DELIVERED ON TIME WHERE STUNNED AT COURIER PRICES,AND IT MIGHT HAVE ACTUALLY SUNK IN WHAT A GREAT DEAL WE GET.
WITH EVER INCREASING EMAIL AND TEXT USEAGE,ROYAL MAIL NEED TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE PROFITABLY AND IF THIS MEANS PUTTING UP PRICES,SO BE IT!!
Not sure what you mean by 'thoroughly modern business'.
In my opinion a lot of people in this country have got pretty tired of 'liberal market economics', the 'Macjobs' that go with it, and the American economic philosophies that lie underneath that.
I live in a country town. I see the postmen doing their job every day, in all weathers, slogging through the town, up steep hills...
Something that Crozier, or Leighton with his Harvard degrees in business management just wouldn't understand. Nor the clowns in Parliament.
How about you Mr Peston...?
The reason the Royal Mail was losing business to rivals was that the regulator Postcomm forced RM to deliver the mail of its rivals for the "final mile" at at loss, that is why they were able to undercut RM.
As tp Spanish practises lots of postmen use their own cars to deliver the mail because once they've finished their round they can go home, if they have to stay at work till the end of their shift, there is no incentive to use their own cars so rounds will end up taking longer, maybe even requiring overtime.
I like these shouting in capitals emails=brilliant.
Localising disputes is no a victory for the CWU. It means Royal Mail can pick off weaker branches one by one and attack the sronger branches later when support is unlikely to be forthcoming.
If what you're saying is accurate, it's an appalling climbdown by the CWU which will effectively seal their demise over the long term, and with them any hope of fighting the government-sanctioned gutting of the postal service for private profits which has been building since 2002.
Localising disputes is [i]not[/i] a victory for the CWU. It means Royal Mail can pick off weaker branches one by one and attack the sronger branches later when support is unlikely to be forthcoming.
If what you're saying is accurate, it's an appalling climbdown by the CWU which will effectively seal their demise over the long term, and with them any hope of fighting the government-sanctioned gutting of the postal service for private profits which has been building since 2002.
I would certainly agree that "Change" is often required and modernisation is needed as time moves on but this last Government has been so hell bent on "Change" that they have more often than not, thrown the proverbial Baby out with the bathwater. AND for all the change ! nothing seems to work any better and is often much worse. NHS. Railways, Roads Education. Not ONE is better for all the change and the enormous amounts of our money which has been wasted. Perhaps if we had made competitors deliver their own mail all the way, then the PO would have had fair competition. BUT that doesnt excuse the two Ronnies who presently front this sorry destruction of our once great Post Service. When all the post offices are gone ( into appartments and empty flats ) there is no going back. The railways was a prime example. What would we give for many of the old lines back, all axed in Beechings Great "Modernisation"
By the time the PO is a sad remmnant, the two Ronnies having destroyed the institution built over hundreds of years will be off to Monaco with the pay offs. The public pick up the pieces. Very sad. Inch by Inch is a synch. Shame our improvments could not be done that way.
I work for Royal Mail, I have never heard of the term "Spanish Practises" used in Royal mail.
I have been given overtime to complete extra work that is not part of my job. But this has always happened, it goes back to the old days when we had a book with everthing we are expected to do, timed upto the minute they were called 318's, anything extra was overtime.
To save money the royal Mail should stop people booking overtime the NEXT DAY, and make the postman return to the office to book his overtime the SAME DAY, this is open to fraud.
I bet half of them would not bother.
Given the 'ethos' and heritage of the Royal Mail, then the overarching solution that Leighton and Crozier proposed a while back, namely, turning the business into a form of LLP, like the very successful John Lewis Partnership; was an ideal step forward.
Unfortunately, the major share-holder, the Government, flatly refused to allow it to go ahead.
I would be interested to know why.
Superficially, one might have thought that a Labour Government would be keen on this sort of arrangement, that empowers all of the workers in the business.
Therefore, given what has happened recently, i.e. the disruption of the business, it would seem that the Government have some explaining to do.
Get back to work, posties. No-one owes you a job, and if you don't like your pay and conditions then there is a thriving job market out there from which you can take your pick. Meanwhile while you are out manning the pickets your company is slowly bleeding to death in the face of competition. Welcome to the real world, outside the shelter of a paternalistic state machine.
The reference to lower cost competititors is a farce. There is only "manuafactured" competition.
Virtually all of these lower cost "competitors" carry out only a small part of the postal process, then dump mail back at the Royal Mail, at an "enforced" lower cost for Royal Mail to do the "actual" work.
Why is competion needed on conventional post.. Royal Mail is hardly expensive, and has provided a vital service for many many years.
The newcomers cream off the profitable big business post, which hits the Royal Mail hard for no benefit to the people of this country and makes them less efficient/profitable. If theese "cowboys" and yes I have experience of their inflexible and amateurish service, cannot provide a full delivery infrastructure with the dedication to all areas that Royal Mail do then they should clear out and return to their "courier and trnasport" businesses. Alternatively Royal Mail should not be forced to provide them service at rates that mean they can undercut them.
It's interesting to think that cracking on with your round and making a little time some days has been seen as such a crime by RM management.Three years ago when they introduced the single daily delivery and the three and a half hour delivery span the Chief Executives actually encouraged the 'job and finish 'attitude whereby postmen were encouraged to work quickly in order to get home earlier and get mail on the customer's mat all the sooner!
Now it is seen as a 'Spanish practice' to be crushed.Make your minds up Messrs Leighton and Crozier.
When I became a postman in the mid '90s a manager explained to me that we had to be flexible.
Sometimes I might manage to beat my scheduled time for completing my walk, and others I would be over.
I would be paid to my official finish time, unles there were quite extraordinary factors at work
He said "Sometimes I''ll give you some time, but mostly you'll be giving me some."
I almost always put in for overtime if I worked mre than 15 minutes over, and rarely was the mail light enough that I beat my time by much, if at all.
I was pretty quick, and reliable. When I put in my notice they asked me to work an extra month, as they expected extra mail during the election of '97.
But these so called "Spanish Practices" work both ways, and the culture in different regions will vary I am sure. It will ahve been fomed in the light of local employment conditions eg Closure of the ship building industry, pits etc in some places.
While the sort of deal Robt Peston discusses above with its local negotiable element may address some of these variations, what is erally needed is a less spivvy Leadership of the employers.
Does anyone know whether they are still insisting on so calld "Total Quality management" wherby posties were supposed to become more and more accurate and quicker and quicker until the 1 minute mile was achieved?
Do you mean a 'thoroughly modern' business would have enough agency and East European workers to get by this industral action? Its rarely mentioned but Postcomm is the real villain, no other Eropean country would counternace self destruction like this! The Germans dallied with a competition regulator and when he started destroying market share in a derogatory manner like Postcomm he was sacked!
When I became a postman in the mid '90s a manager explained to me that we had to be flexible.
Sometimes I might manage to beat my scheduled time for completing my walk, and others I would be over.
I would be paid to my official finish time, unles there were quite extraordinary factors at work
He said "Sometimes I''ll give you some time, but mostly you'll be giving me some."
I almost always put in for overtime if I worked mre than 15 minutes over, and rarely was the mail light enough that I beat my time by much, if at all.
I was pretty quick, and reliable. When I put in my notice they asked me to work an extra month, as they expected extra mail during the election of '97.
But these so called "Spanish Practices" work both ways, and the culture in different regions will vary I am sure. It will ahve been fomed in the light of local employment conditions eg Closure of the ship building industry, pits etc in some places.
While the sort of deal Robt Peston discusses above with its local negotiable element may address some of these variations, what is erally needed is a less spivvy Leadership of the employers.
Does anyone know whether they are still insisting on so calld "Total Quality management" wherby posties were supposed to become more and more accurate and quicker and quicker until the 1 minute mile was achieved?
It's interesting to think that cracking on with your round and making a little time some days has been seen as such a crime by RM management.Three years ago when they introduced the single daily delivery and the three and a half hour delivery span the Chief Executives actually encouraged the 'job and finish 'attitude whereby postmen were encouraged to work quickly in order to get home earlier and get mail on the customer's mat all the sooner!
Now it is seen as a 'Spanish practice' to be crushed.Make your minds up Messrs Leighton and Crozier.
As a postman i am pleased that a deal seems to have been reached.Although it's not done and dusted yet until we see the details . Despite what has been reported in the press this has not about pay and flexibility.It's about the pension that i was promised when i started paying into 20 years ago.It's about the 17 year pension holiday that Royal Mail took and now don't want to make good.It's about the fact that Royal Mail can change my start and finish by up to 2 hours at very little notice. I have a life outwith Royal Mail.
As for the reported Spanish practices the only one i know about is the job and finish on Deliveries. As a driver i work my full shift every day give or take 10 minutes ( BOTH WAYS , NO OVERTIME ) as far as i am concerned it's swings and roundabouts. The indoor staff are the same they work to their time every day give or take 10 minutes.
If delivery staff don't take their own car and take a tea-break before the go out then any early finish would be wiped in most of the shifts.
Some of the reported Spanish practices may well happen , if they do then that is down to management allowing it to happen.I don't hear Adam Crozier saying to Royal Mail that his £750,000 + bonus + pension contributions is to much let's just cut it a bit so don't expect postmen to turn down the offer to get the job done.
I am all for competition , bring it on but let's be clear about this. The fact we
lost business to downstream access is down to management mistakes.The 13 pence per item Royal Mail negotiated with the other mail companies was to low , we make a loss on it.Royal Mail has already admitted this by going to Postcom and asking for an increase in what we charge them.
When Allan Leighton and Adam Crozier came on board 5 and 4 years respectively they were supposed to turn the company around and get us ready for the mail market opening up.The truth is they have failed . They may try and blame the staff for this failure but that does not wash with me.They knew what was required and they failed.
I can see the point about lack of trust here ... my brother works in Royal Mail and I can tell you that even at this late point in the proceedings staff have been going in to work ... just yesterday ... to letters which inform them that changes to their shift patterns are to be IMPOSED by management from November WITHOUT any negotiation ...
Now someone in a bit of power may wish to explain why anyone with a modicum of common sense would jeapordise a resolution to the dispute in this way and ask the obvious question ...
what is your motive for doing this?
If the flexible hours are imposed I can assure you every postman currently finishing 'early' will there on, no longer use their cars as effectively vans [unpaid], take all alloted breaks [they work through all breaks at the moment, and have to wait for pounch boxes which do not exist but have been 'promised' for five plus years! Believe me in the end LESS actual mail will be posted as postmen will effectively reach their 1.30pm cut off time before breaks and will be forced to leave mail in the fittings, because a manager will not pay the overtime it has earned. I no it's not the public's fault, but it angers me how they do not see [I mean the nasty complainers] just how the mail for us has virtually doubled yet still no equipment, vans, pounch boxes, extra bikes!!! [big problem for me!] still are not evident at all. That's why we use cars, not JUST to finish early!! Would you use your car because you had NO choice...just to then go back and do more?
I've felt very sad about the dispute - I'm an old'un and I remember how much we depended on the Mail in the old days to get things. A lot of older people still do, especially if you're out in the country, like us - and we still rate our own posties very highly.
But the truth of the matter is that less and less needs to be physically delivered - virtually everything I get now would be better via e-mail. In the future, won't that be the greener way as well?
So,the Mail will have to change dramatically. I agree that we could let market forces decide and bung the price of a stamp up - I assume the management are smart enough to have worked out what's economic and what customers will accept. The management should certainly have brought the workforce on board to mutually work out what they can do to meet changing circumstances, rather than this lengthy dispute.
But I fear the outcome is as described - 25% of the Mail will just evaporate because it's time is drawing to an end.
i have worked at royal mail for 36 years. Royal Mail talk about mordenisation. One of the sticking points was they wanted to have delivery officers working till 1pm on saturdays. In 36 years i have never worked till 1pm on saturdays on delivery. If Royal Mail are supposed to talk modernisation they have to make the job "attractive" to new starters. Working till i8pm on Saturdays is not attractive. It is not the job for football fans.
It's nice to hear from working postmen. Since after all it is their livelyhood that is being threatened. I am a working postman and find it difficult to accept the coverage from TV and newspapers. One or two petty 'wee' businesses wanting to get their faces on TV to complain about their livelyhood. But did anyone actually take the time to speak to a postman? All my customers, include 'small' businesses support the strike action, but then they have taken the time to get details instead of TV soundbites. Even strangers offer their support, most intelligent people are aware off the work the postmen do. Where else would you get such a service? TNT, Business Post or any other Couriors? No, they will not touch the actual door to door deliveries. How many times have you come home to find a card at the bottom of your stairs?
How about trying to get details from those involved and then make your mind up or you could just read on...
The whole 'Spanish Practice' was introduced by Royal Mail when they introduced the Single Daily Delivery. They encouraged postmen to hurry out the door as soon as possible, frequently without taking a break (conveniently forgotten about by all managers). This included allowing them to use their own transport, at a cost to themselves as they have to pay more in insurance as they are using their cars for business purposes. A high percentage of delivery staff also started work 30-60 minutes earlier, without claiming as overtime, to get away at the earliest possible time. But, if the mail was busy then the managers held us back until all the mail was ready for delivery and frequently harrassed postmen if they were unwilling or unable to work overtime. And would "remind" postmen that they would be watched whilst out on delivery to make sure they did not finish early.
One of the reasons that Royal Mail has fallen behind their so called competitors is that they failed to act from day one. They were informed of the changes regarding competition two or three years beforehand. In fact nearly every staff meeting included dire warnings about the changes. But did the Royal Mail invest in new sorting machines? Only in a rather pathetic and halfhearted way. They got in two or three new sorting machines on trail... and in another couple of years they will have narrowed it down to one.. The sad thing is that the Royal Mail is constantly telling postmen that their deliveries are not 3 and a half hours long even though they tested them and signed off on them.
Flexibility is only asked off from CWU members - Managers are still 5am - 1pm, whilst Delivery staff are either 5am - 1pm or 6.15am - 2.15pm. This was enforced, without proper consultation, on Monday 8th October.
We must also remember that while the majority of Royal Mail staff were out on strike the Managers were negotiating their own deal. Which was agreed in principle during the CWU two 48 hour strikes. They wanted the same deal as CWU, well almost - 7.3% pay increase over 2 years, CWU wanted 6.9% for it's members over the same period. The pension plans, modernisation, which effects everyone and we all know that you need to invest in more efficient machinery to meet the demands of todays post.
The future of the Royal Mail is clear - Later and later deliveries, Part-time delivery staff - untrained and without a union to protect them.
If I was still a postie I would be asking what sort of support CWU spnsored MPs, who used to include Mrs Margaret Becket, were doing to support us.
When I became a postman in the mid '90s a manager explained to me that we had to be flexible.
Sometimes I might manage to beat my scheduled time for completing my walk, and others I would be over.
I would be paid to my official finish time, unles there were quite extraordinary factors at work
He said "Sometimes I''ll give you some time, but mostly you'll be giving me some."
I almost always put in for overtime if I worked mre than 15 minutes over, and rarely was the mail light enough that I beat my time by much, if at all.
I was pretty quick, and reliable. When I put in my notice they asked me to work an extra month, as they expected extra mail during the election of '97.
But these so called "Spanish Practices" work both ways, and the culture in different regions will vary I am sure. It will ahve been fomed in the light of local employment conditions eg Closure of the ship building industry, pits etc in some places.
While the sort of deal Robt Peston discusses above with its local negotiable element may address some of these variations, what is erally needed is a less spivvy Leadership of the employers.
Does anyone know whether they are still insisting on so calld "Total Quality management" wherby posties were supposed to become more and more accurate and quicker and quicker until the 1 minute mile was achieved?
I worked for the Royal Mail, as a sorter of bulk mail, in the late 90's.I expected a union dominated work environment with all sorts of "Spanish Practices". I was disappointed that there were none.
Perhaps it is because I was working in a temporary facility but the union seemed pretty powerless. Far more important was the attitude of management. My manager and his assistant had terrible attitudes. They were aggressive, unpopular and helped create a realy bad sweatshop atmosphere in the workplace.
The work and hours were difficult. I lost quite a bit of weight while working for the post office. When I left I took several weeks sick pay off them.
Wrong I know, but the conditions were Victorian and I had no respect for the mnagement or the company. I don't know if current employees feel the same way.
There are many reasons why Royal Mail is losing money and poor management is one of them. The former St Ives (Cambs) PO occupies a prime site and is largely empty because the sorting office is on the first floor. That is not the best place for a sorting office.
In July I received an invoice for Freepost services which totalled nearly £400. It dated back to 2005 and included subscription charges for two years. Clearly their accounting is diabolical.
There is more but I don't have the space except to say the Cambridge sorting and delivery office is very poorly run.
I would just like to say that when I was a Postman, everything was timed right down to the very last minute. This was then agreed with by the union and the local management. This included getting to the delivery area by public transport, having your second or third bags of mail being dropped off by a fellow Royal Mail van driver, and then returning back to work via public transport. If you went in your own car then that would mean that you didn’t have wait for the local bus etc, and the fact that if you walked quicker around your delivery you wouldn’t be waiting for the van driver to drop off you other bags of mail. To be honest with you all most of the time the deliveries were completed on time, but because I didn’t drive having to go back to the delivery centre by bus would mean I would be working over my working hours. If I was ever to book overtime then the manger in charge of my area would make it his/her personal issue to make sure I never booked any overtime again. If this meant bullying me or insulting me into not booking overtime then that was seen as fair treatment. All I ever wanted from my job was to complete it to the very best of my abilities, for all my customers and for my own personal pride. Royal Mail never wanted this at a local level and this meant that local managers would bully staff at any given time to make sure that they got their own bonuses etc. I left Royal Mail due to the stress that I was under, but I did really love being a Postman. I loved doing my job well and the making sure that the customer got their post on time and in a good order. The problem with Royal Mail at this time is that the current management teams are just not up to the job.
And as every Post Person knows delivering something to a customer and making their day better, fills them with a huge sense of fulfilment and joy. Shame that Royal Mail doesn’t understand that.
Like it or not the perception of the Royal Mail is that it is one of the last bastions of 70s style unionism.
By that I mean 'down tools given any excuse', probably unfair but .....
There are no doubt lots of good and posties, equally good and bad managers and lots of dodgy practices (on both sides)
Most people are hardly reliant on the mail at all (given the internet etc) so we are all thinking that 'the Service is shooting itself in the foot by the recent events'. The best thing might be that it hastens the introduction of more automation e.g. emails for hospital appointments and even speeding fines!
We are no more dependent on the Mail than we are on any brand of insurance/bank/holiday firm.
Sorry chaps, time to speed up, modernise, get wise.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I think both sides have behaved appalingly, the people who were on wildcat strikes should be punished as they were acting without union sanction and so they are effectively giving up their union protection as well and should be sacked by RM for unjustified disruption to service.
And no offence but if the post men/women think they have it so bad earning what they do for a job that requires no real qualifications except the ability to walk, then maybe they should leave and train for something else unless they feel it is some kind of 'higher calling' for them.
For an organisation that was exposed on the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ as losing tens of millions of items of post each year, some of which may have had financial details of people in, they should be bending over backwards to fix this rather than fighting with each other. I also love the fact that it will be a post ballot, I bet they will be delivered no problem, on time and none of those will be lost!!
Royal Mails idea of modernisation may not be in the greater public interest. If you look back 10 years you will see Royal mail was providing a better service for the public and 20 years before better still. The term "Moderisation" has been used as a smoke screen whilst services have been reduced. It is a sad fact that many people willingly except what they are told without queston. We live in a world full of spin and PR so that if enough people believe the 1970's time warp rubbish it becomes the truth of the masses. When you have an electorate of sheep you get a government of wolves.
My husband is a postie and I see him and his colleagues with heavy bags in the morning, delivering post to people most of who's exercise is in the gym if at all.
A number of these men develop medical conditions brought on by the nature of their job, carrying, resulting in backaches, sorting letters and packages resulting in problem hands and fingers. Let us also not forget how rain or sunshine, they should struggle to deliver our post!!!!! Sometimes they are attacked when working in unsavoury neigbourhoods
How does management reward them? By awarding the top bosses excessive annual salaries and bonuses!!!!!
From what I can gather, the main gripe they have is the pension terms.
Welcome to the real world. The company I work for has changed the terms of the pension promised, the only way to keep it on the same terms we originally signed up for is to contribute 5% of our salary every month.
Unfair? Yes.
Did we go on strike and negatively affect millions of people's lives and cost the country's ecomony millions of pounds? No.
Why? Because we understand why pensions can't carry on the way they are. With people living longer and investments not doing as well as predicted 10-15 years ago there just isn't enough momey.
Grow up!
If your looking for your next scoop find out which bank has asked for £8 billion of emergency funding from the Bank of England.
Northern Rock have only requested £15 billion.